Vege Bodybuilders?

[brent]

I have not eaten any meat for over 11 years (excluding my boyfriends). I keep hearing banter back & forth as to whether the protines in meat are beneficial/ harmful to someone wanting to build mass. I'm starting to workout regularly now, and so I'm interested if anyone has heard any reputable information on this?

[myophile]

I think its more difficult, but you can still find all of the nutrients you need without meat - its just a question of getting the ratios right. one of the classic old-school bodybuilders, Bill Pearl, has been vegan since the 80s and has maintained quite an impressive physique the entire time. (not to mention the fact that he's like 75 now...)

[biguglymofo]

Yep. The biggest issue is that you're using incomplete proteins, and that you have to combine your sources in order to have a complete source of peptides. Are you a strict vegan? If not, a bit of whey protein post workout goes a long way. Still, you can build a decent body while being a vegetarian.

Me, well, I'll take a good t-bone or sirloin anyday over a cup of tofu. tehe.

[massingUP]

One of my old workout partners had been a vegetarian for about 11 years and was a very solid bodybuilder who competed from time to time -- great physique, and very serious about his training.

He was, however, a lacto-ovo vegetarian -- so he got protein from eggs, milk, whey protein, etc.... If you are a strict vegan, you are going to have to work a lot harder -- as BigUglyMoFo said, you'll have to combine your legumes to get complete proteins, and that'll require a LOT of eating on your part. Animal proteins are just a much denser form of protein -- which makes sense, since they're vegetable proteins that have been "processed" by the animal into another form.

Anyways, I know plenty of vegetarian bodybuilders, so it's entirely doable. Just do some research and get started.

But, as a final caveat, my old training partner did eventually decide to start eating fish, and then meat, in an effort to make his eating-to-grow more efficient.

-- massingUP / getnbiggr

[RadRx]

Although not specifically tied to bodybuilding, there is a book out by Joel Fuhrman, MD called 'Eat to Live.'

One of it's subjects is the type of protein available from plant vs. animal origin. He points out the much of the protein available from plants is more bioavailable and demographically better for you.

Just a thought.

RadRx

[brent]

Thanx, I'm a vegetarian, not vegan. I don't like fish, poultry, or meat, so I don't eat them. I do however like milk and eggs, but I really LOVE cheese. So I eat lots of them! I tried being vegan for a while when I was in my early 20's idealistic phase... That lasted for almost two weeks!
I am mainly confused about good information. Some people say that meat has beneficial hormones, others say vegetarian sources have more bioavailable protiens, as mentioned earlier. It just seems that most information is writen to prove the writer's bias.
Currently, I take a good diverse Amino-Acid suplement right after my workout, and at night. I think that should fill many holes in my diet. I will also look into a whey supplement as well.
Thank you!

[polomuscle]

You can buy a vegetarian protein powder at GNC or Vitamin Shoppe. Get used to mixing it with juice or soy milk and drinking a couple of those per day. I have used this as weight gainer and, with proper diet and exercise, it works. Remember, you don't need lots and lots of extra protein unless (someone correct me if I'm wrong) you're lifting heavy (high weigh, low reps), and trying to bulk up. In which case you will probably need to burn off some extra fat after that.

If you have a very skinny body type, it's hard to put on mass, and even harder to do it as a vegan. If you are naturally lean and are working out properly to gain mass, I would really try to get a box of those concentrated energy bars made of nuts, flax, seeds, honey, and dried fruit. They tend to have a decent amount of protein, but they will replace a lot of your burned calories. In my experience, I have become very lean while doing a vegetarian diet 1) because I simply wasn't burning as many calories and 2) because my intake of saturated fat went way down, so I lost fat.

[The Magus]

I was a lacto-ovo-"fish-o" vegetarian for about the same time as you (for socio-political and environmental reasons, not so much for "health" or animal rights as some people are), but I recently made the decision to eat meat because I really want to have the body that I've been fantasizing about, and doing the meat thing just seemed easier. When I'm at the point of developing a maintenance routine, I'll probably go back to being a vegetarian (unless world poverty is eliminated by then and the environment is safe...).

The research that I found on bodybuilding while being vegetarian divided pretty much into 2 groups: one group said that with some planning and thought it was definitely do-able, and the other group said that it was impossible, stupid, and that all vegetarians were stupid and probably had small dicks. I happen to find the first group a little more credible.

The only thing I'd look into more, if I were doing the vegetarian thing, is the recent news about Soy being bad for you and/or its promoting estrogen (which would make muscle growth more difficult). With soy out of the question, getting protein is a little bit more difficult, but not impossible.

And as a side note, let me confirm that meat eaters smell. They smell bad. I hope I get my ideal body soon, because there aren't enough roses in the world to make my bathroom smell nice right now...

[wbhunk]

Agreed. The most convenient thing about meat is that it IS muscle, no more, no less, so it doesn't require an inordinate amount of energy to process into YOUR muscle. However, what tends to get people in trouble is that meat in excess is far easier to turn into fat because of that lack of energy required to digest it. <g>

[RadRx]

WB:

With all due respect, meat is one of the most difficult things for the body to digest because of the specificity of digestive enzymes required to break it down into pieces able to be transported across various membranes in the body. This is one reason that meals containing meat are recommended to have the meat consumed within the first 10-15 minutes in order not to deplete the reserves of the specific enzymes necessary to do the job. On the upside, once inside these fragments can be potentially considered pre-fabricated units for skeletal muscle.

Unlike carbohydrates, which are broken down into 2-carbon pieces, amino acids are difficult to break down into pieces that fit nicely into fatty storage. Unused protein usually gets elimated by the kidneys rather than stored in the body. That's why bodybuilders are always chugging down lots of water -- all that protein is very rough on the kidneys. And those 2-carbon fragments from carbs are the perfect building blocks for fat if they're not consumed as energy.

Fat, however, requires almost no processing to be incorporated into the body. It crosses membranes relatively easily. It is also the most diffucult 'nutrient' for the body to dismantle (hence 9 calories/gram v. 4 calories for carbs and protein). Elimination is also tough, so it ends up in storage if it isn't burned as energy.

RRx

[wbhunk]

Very true, RRx. I should have been more specific and pointed out that, because meat, given its source, can contain a lot of fats that excess consumption of it will result in being stored. There are also some substrate pathways that use the carbon skeletons derived from amino acids to generate glucose and 2 carbon acetone groups (the basis of fat)....however, our bodies, being the wonderful machines they are, don't like to do that because stripping the amine group off those takes a lot of energy.

Correction accepted gracefully. <g>