Does anyone else find 'muscle clichés' uncreative?

[muscleaddict564]

For example, "diamond calves", "mountain pecs", "tree trunk legs", "bull neck", "rock hard abs", "monster cock", and so on. It's like, a lot of authors use these clichés. Does anyone else find them rather bland?

[arpeejay]

Feel free to make suggestions!

xoxo

Richard

[Amazed]

Nope, I still get boned when I read 'em! And I'll throw in brick shithouse, pumped up, steel hard, big guns, and war chest!

[muscleaddict564]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

Feel free to make suggestions!

xoxo

Richard

Well, it just seems that people could describe their characteristics in a way that is unique to the character. For example, let's assume a story is about two teenagers. One is a football player, the other is a geek. The geek is describing the football player's muscles to his best friend. He says something like, "I get lost in his prismatic, ocean blue eyes. His beach blonde hair reminds me so much of my hometown in California, and who could forget the nice, thin layer of leg hair that he keeps so well? It's a miracle that I can get anything done in calculus, because the way he sits with his legs crossed makes his impossibly muscular calves pop out in an intimidating way. It's like he doesn't even notice that his quads nearly rip his jeans apart when he just barely moves his legs, or that he really ought to wear tank tops, because his biceps will eventually find a way out of that tight, black polo shirt." stuff like that :b

[arpeejay]

Great work, Muscleaddict! I look forward to reading your stories!

xoxo

Richard

[muscleaddict564]

Great work, Muscleaddict! I look forward to reading your stories!

lol, I can't tell whether or not you were subtly hinting at something, or if you actually think I'm writing. I don't really write stories like you'd see here. I LOVE them, but I can't write them that well. I usually write gay teen romance stories. The one I'm writing now, "truth prevails", is about a Czech teenager that moved to America, and he and an American friend have sort of a thing going on. I'm only on the first chapter, as I usually wait for feedback before I continue stories. If you want to, you can read it the first chapter here. It will probably only contain a little muscle growth, as it's presumed that Jakub (the muscular Czech guy) is already muscular/strong enough. I get off on strong teens, don't ask why. If you do too, then you'll enjoy the story.

[BBMikeNJ]

I like the cliches because they make for such a fast visual. It helps when they come with some more descriptive elements, like "his 24" bull neck rolled with muscle on the nape, like stacked-up kielbasas, thick and hard".

But new phrases do help add spice to a story. Like, "his powerful neck merged with his traps like a thick ox yoke on top of his 4-foot wide shoulders".

Either way, if the character is doing 50-rep shrugs with 250lbs dumbbells, it works for me.

[Ogun]

There ARE cliches for a reason, but yeah, I do expect creativity asd well -if things get to repetitive it can get dull or annoying.

[Jaypat]

Originally Posted by muscleaddict564

"I get lost in his prismatic, ocean blue eyes. His beach blonde hair reminds me so much of my hometown in California, and who could forget the nice, thin layer of leg hair that he keeps so well? It's a miracle that I can get anything done in calculus, because the way he sits with his legs crossed makes his impossibly muscular calves pop out in an intimidating way. It's like he doesn't even notice that his quads nearly rip his jeans apart when he just barely moves his legs, or that he really ought to wear tank tops, because his biceps will eventually find a way out of that tight, black polo shirt." stuff like that :b

First I think I need you to write a paragraph that is free of cliches like "ocean blue eyes", and "beach blond hair", and "impossibly muscular calves", and then get back to me.

[muscleaddict564]

Originally Posted by Jaypat

First I think I need you to write a paragraph that is free of cliches like "ocean blue eyes", and "beach blond hair", and "impossibly muscular calves", and then get back to me.

I don't see how the first two are clichés, because they are both distinct hues.

[Jaypat]

A cliché is defined as: a phrase or word that has lost its original effectiveness or power from overuse.

Beach blond hair and ocean blue eyes are descriptions that fit the above definition. Whether or not they are distinct hues is irrelevant.

So there!

[muscleaddict564]

Originally Posted by Jaypat

A cliché is defined as: a phrase or word that has lost its original effectiveness or power from overuse.

Beach blond hair and ocean blue eyes are descriptions that fit the above definition. Whether or not they are distinct hues is irrelevant.

So there!

I accept defeat.
I was trying to think of a good cliché to say that would mean that, but I couldn't think of one

[RPM]

The very nature of the cliche is that it's tired from excessive overuse, so yes I do, but even though an old English teacher has thoroughly beaten them out of me, I still prefer accuracy over originality, so I say write whatever's the most appropriate description and don't sacrifice an impressive but overused one for a ineffective but original one.

[arpeejay]

Ya know, thinking about it some more, I'd like to suggest that with regards to erotica, and most of what gets posted here is, at least f.s.v.o erotica, that cliches play a very important role in heightening the sexual tension.

I don't know about you but just reading or hearing the following words tend to give me a little zing each time I see one of them:

big
built
beefy
hard
hairy
he-man
hunky
horny
hulking
masculine
mountainous
muscle
muscular
powerful
ripped
thick

The list goes on and on. As descriptors, they ALWAYS work for me. The question is whether the setting and characters are interesting / different enough to grab my attention.

Dos centavos, por favor...

xoox

Richard

[Amazed]

Agreed! In fact, I just got a rise in my Levis from perusing that short list. And there's nothing - and I mean nothing - like a built powerhouse uttering those phrases when referring to himself and flexing out his mass.

Originally Posted by muscleaddict564

lol, I can't tell whether or not you were subtly hinting at something, or if you actually think I'm writing. I don't really write stories like you'd see here. I LOVE them, but I can't write them that well. I usually write gay teen romance stories. The one I'm writing now, "truth prevails", is about a Czech teenager that moved to America, and he and an American friend have sort of a thing going on. I'm only on the first chapter, as I usually wait for feedback before I continue stories. If you want to, you can read it the first chapter here. It will probably only contain a little muscle growth, as it's presumed that Jakub (the muscular Czech guy) is already muscular/strong enough. I get off on strong teens, don't ask why. If you do too, then you'll enjoy the story.

Yea I could definately tell you wrote romance stuff. That whole paragraph was super poetic and just really not a turn on. I think we use Mountainous Pecs and Other Bold words because there raw and intimidating. There is only so many words in the dictionary and were describing the same stuff, muscle. There's only going to be so many ways to describe pecs, or so many ways to describe biceps. Also there is some words I have tried using in my stories but they just don't work. Like Titanic.. Its meaning is huge and powerful, but obviously when you see the word we all think of the ship that sank lol

And Amazed I totally agree with you, I got a rise to looking at those words.. mmm

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

Ya know, thinking about it some more, I'd like to suggest that with regards to erotica, and most of what gets posted here is, at least f.s.v.o erotica, that cliches play a very important role in heightening the sexual tension.

What does f.s.v.o. mean?

I've probably used "Rock hard abs" in all my stories. Can't help. Love the phrase so much.

[arpeejay]

Sorry, I let that one slip in from my soc.motss days; "f.s.v.o." = for some value of.

xoxo

Richard

[Rowan]

Ah. Thank you.

[chr1s_87]

Yep. I like the muscle cliches. For some reason, "ocean blue eyes" and "beach blond hair" strike negative notes with me. Muscle fetish stories have to strike at something primal inside, and the bluntest words, even though often cliched, do the trick. Poetry takes me out of it.

[Demandred]

I don't care if it's a cliche or not, if someone writes about a guy's "rock hard abs", "monster cock" or "heaving chest", then as long as I get something out of it then that's fine by me! Sure, some "original" turns of phrase can be the most memorable, but I'm not on here for a creative writing class (and I don't write quite as meticulously as I would for my course either). I'm here to enjoy stories about muscle growth, so bring on the descriptions so I can appreciate the muscle all the more.

- Dem

[lead guitarist]

I think we have to keep in mind that, in stories like these, we are not trying to appeal to our internal literary critic. We are not writing for each other’s intellect, heart, or soul. We are writing to appeal to our libidos. We are writing to get our cocks hard. This stuff is, essentially, wank fantasy. So, as far as I’m concerned, clichés don’t matter. When we describe bulging biceps, we tend to use the whole thesaurus: big, huge, enormous, gigantic, massive, etc. This is just fine by me. Words like that stir my cock. Phrases like “gigantic biceps bursting with power” may be clichés in this genre, but I still like reading them!

[redwolf64]

When it comes down to it, this is genre fiction and genres all have cliches, but they can work when placed in the right context.

I like to think about it in terms of movies - let's say "The Maltese Falcon" or "The Big Sleep". Those movies are full of cliches, but they work because you've got a skillful writer, director and actors that bring something new to the table with the atmosphere and characters.

Like someone else mentioned, they're a kind of shorthand. You read a description or phrase and it lets the reader use their imagination a bit. Everyone's going to imagine what the characters look like and the scene. The key is just to give enough detail to work with and spark the imagination. When you're writing, it's a tough balancing act between saying too much and saying too little.

What gets me are stories that have no conflict or real story to speak of, just one sex or muscle growth scene after another.

[arpeejay]

Originally Posted by redwolf64

What gets me are stories that have no conflict or real story to speak of, just one sex or muscle growth scene after another.

I can only say one thing:

Guilty, your honor, guilty as charged!

xoxo

Richard

[hickory]

Originally Posted by muscleaddict564

For example, "diamond calves", "mountain pecs", "tree trunk legs", "bull neck", "rock hard abs", "monster cock", and so on. It's like, a lot of authors use these clichés. Does anyone else find them rather bland?

Yes, but I'm willing to forgive it in this particular context. I mean, at the end of the day what we have here are a bunch of mostly amateur authors writing erotica. It's unrealistic to expect stirring metaphors and engrossing descriptions. In many cases I suspect this to be the extent of writing most of these authors ever do, so it's natural that they appeal to common and recurring imagery that they themselves encounter in the work they read. That, I don't really have a problem with. I have on occasion come across pieces (I'm mostly referring to entries at CYOC) that are so poorly written that they pull me completely out of the moment, and that's always a real piss-off when you've got the juices flowing already, but it's bound to happen.

[Phlex]

Note also that a lot of these familiar phrases ('diamond calves', 'washboard abs') were established as standard descriptions, or clichés if you wish, by the writing in bodybuilding magazines, and I mean the otherwise homophobic publications of Joe Weider and Bob Hoffman.

[beeflover2001]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

I don't know about you but just reading or hearing the following words tend to give me a little zing each time I see one of them:

big
built
beefy
hard
hairy
he-man
hunky
horny
hulking
masculine
mountainous
muscle
muscular
powerful
ripped
thick

Well, that list made my nipples throb.

I haven't written any muscle erotica for a long time, but I know I've used cliches like "flexed into solid rock," along with other descriptors like "mammoth" and "massive" and lots of "dirty" talk.

[elysiumfields]

It all depends on how articulate the storyteller is at crafting his [or her] muscle stories for us to enjoy. Some folks,especially some of the members who write multiple chapter stories ie novella's, can be more literarily gifted with their choice of words to describe a persons muscle growth or sexual situations. I like reading up the basic descriptive words used in muscle/sex situations. Its more of the typical common [lower middle class] jock type language, let alone making the 'scene' more sexually arousing to read. If i decide to write a story i try and use the words i know best and find a turn on descriptively..and largely i don't get long words, thats why i tend to limit myself to short stories..

For Example:..

" I tried to maintain my composure as the hot 'stud' pushing the boat along with the punting pole began to swell with muscle in front of me..
With every push down on the pole into the water,his flat pale chest grew wider as his barely noticeable pectoral muscles 'surged' with increasing thickness and grew bigger still into highly arousing 'bulging mounds',capped with 'juicy' nipples that 'perked' up a little harder as the growth of his 'heaving' chest pointed them slightly southwards.
Oh, and those arms..holy shit..!. Muscles 'rippling and pulsing' as they grew thicker,..veins 'pumping' along his foreams and biceps,almost seemingly 'feeding' more growth into his muscles as he dug the pole down into the river bed and pushed the boat forward with strength that increased with his muscle growth.
My face must have been blushing scarlet 'coz the 'hunk' noticed,smiled wryly down at me and responded by raising one arm up in a masterful bicep flex,showing off his bicep as it 'bulged insanely' in size,veins streaking across its 'burgeoning' size as it took on huge proportions as thick as a 'cannonball'........."

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2603/...f6225a3711.jpg

That is the way of writing that i find deeply homo-erotic,especially when you can imagine the guy the growth is happening to.

[cutlerfan]

I'm new at posting stories myself but one thing that I feel is important is pacing. If your characters are in a slow romantic walk on the beach grandiose dialogue is wonderful because you are not going fast. If your character suddenly finds himself surrounded by a dozen muscle men in speedos and an orgy ensues; then perhaps big words will only slow down the action. I like big words but the best words are the ones that you use correctly. I still find my self wondering what words mean in their actual definition not just common usage. Technical jargon varies from field to field in science but most people know what what a beaker or flask is. Not a lot of people may know that the person who spins the roulette wheel in a casino is a stochastic technician. If I have to figure out the meanings all throughout the story it bogs down the action. This is just a thought and no criticism of anyone's actual writing. I like a lot of different story types myself so keep them coming at me! Peace!

[Peter 2636]

It doesn't matter much to me that the story writers here use cliches. Bad grammar such as using than instead of then (...he went up the stairs than he turned right) or gross misspellings (He touched the incrreddibley huge pecs...) and badly worded sentences (He switch back to blond man that done a turn.) make me stop reading the story. I know that everyone makes mistakes and it is hard to proof read your own work but there are spelling and grammar checkers on most word processors. Of course anything used to excess like cliches is annoying especially when a cliche is used for every body part all in one sentence. (His traps were mountainous, his delts were like basketballs, his biceps were like watermelons, his forearm was as big as a normal man's thigh, his abs were like a washboard, his pecs, oh my god his pecs were slabs of granite with a cleft six inches deep, and his legs were like tree trunks...)

Peter

[Mdlftr]

Cliche Man!!

I propose that we have a contest {sort of like the Edward Bulwar Lytton contest} to pick the most overwrought, cliched, cornball sentence (or two or three) in a bodybuilding story.

Here, I'll get us started.....

Lance Fairclout paused in his 56th set of grueling bench presses to rack the weight and draw one heavily muscled forearm across his broad, sweaty brow.

His forearm was meaty and thick, bristling with size and power, and popping with veins. Not like the veins of a scrawny, underweight, diseased heroin addict wrapping a rubber band around his stick like, bruised thin arms before giving himself another shot of life draining poison, but, rather, veins like fire hoses, swelling and jerking with hundreds of pounds of pressure as they priapically spurted a geyer of water on a raging inferno which threatened to consume a city.

No, Lance's heavily veined forearms were like piano legs, swelling at the top and tapering down to a thick symphony of sinew and gristle and bone which ended in thick, meaty, hands.

His hands were like catcher's mitts, padded and pumped and swollen with thick, calloused muscle, as each thick, muscular sausage-sized finger curled around the bar with a firm grip, like the grip of a drowning man on a life preserver, like the grip of an accountant on a tax deduction, like the grip of a horny 15-year-old on his hot tube steak as he pleasured himself into mindless frenzy.

Lance heaved his heavy torso up off the bench and inhaled a tsunami of air into his cargo-sized chest. The cinderblock walls of the grotty old gym bulged slightly in his direction as he sucked air into his mountainous chest, like the surge of a nor-east'er over the Maine coast during a winter storm, like the howl of an air current blasting through icy mountain passes, like a tornado in a teacup.

Lance raised one meaty paw up to lovingly cup one of his massive pectorals and massage it with rough-gentle strokes. His pectorals had been compared to bags of cement on a wall, sides of beef on a slab, mountains, tits, muscle mammeries and man-boobs, but he preferred the term "prodigiously pumped pectorals". There was something about the puffing, pounding sound of pulsing "Ps" proceeding from his mouth that turned him on.


-------

Feel free to carry on from here...!

Mdlftr

[Stoneman]

Oh man. So hard now, Mdlftr. Keep going!!!

[Daisuke]

Are these examples really cliches? I always thought of them as a collective language we all speak. Yaoi fandoms have their own languages and the language used in hard sci fi would be different from the language used in high fantasy which would be different from the language used in urban fantasy, etc.

It's part of what makes MG a genre. One of those "you might not be able to put your finger on it but know it when you read it kind of things."

[Mdlftr]

Stoneman, Daisuke...C'mon!!

You KNOW what I wrote was a total put-on, Right?!!

I mean, the entire thread is about how stale and boring we find "muscle cliches"!!

Still...psst Stoneman...shoot me a few of your favorite ideas, and I'll see what I can do, cliche-wise!

Mdlftr
who can't believe anyone took this seriously!

[rextorres]

If you complain about muscle cliches then please post a muscle growth story on here which doesn't use any cliches at all, even though it describes muscle growth in complete detail. If you succeed, then you have every right to complain...

[RPM]

Actually, people earn their right to complain as soon as they observe something worth pointing out.

[arpeejay]

People can and do complain about anything and everything. It's hard to take their complaints seriously if complaining is the extent of their contributions! :-)

xoxo

Richard

[RPM]

Well, yes, if you mean "complaining" in its strictest definition. But this guy simply made an observation and asked a question regarding what others thought about it, and it got filed under "complaining", which seems to have expanded to mean "anything that isn't outright praise", so usually it just seems people don't like being told there's room for improvement and use "do better yourself" as a method of deference.

[Daisuke]

Originally Posted by Mdlftr

Stoneman, Daisuke...C'mon!!

You KNOW what I wrote was a total put-on, Right?!!

I mean, the entire thread is about how stale and boring we find "muscle cliches"!!

Still...psst Stoneman...shoot me a few of your favorite ideas, and I'll see what I can do, cliche-wise!

Mdlftr
who can't believe anyone took this seriously!

What I said wasn't a direct comment on what you wrote, Mdlftr, just my view on the subject of the thread itself, you know?

While I agree that taking certain phrases/words/adjectives to extreme overuse is usually bad, I also think we all tend to speak a communal language when we write these stories. That was the only point I was trying to make.