Before and After - Part 1

[johnd]

Before and After - Part 1

By John D.

Jimmy was 22 years old and had just graduated from college. He was a computer whiz. He had majored in computer science and had gotten real good grades. And his dream had come true. He had been hired by Google as a computer software engineer, also known as a computer programmer. He had just finished his first week on the job. Jimmy was gay. He had known he was gay since he first became a teen. He joined the gay club in high school and college and all his friends were gay. He always stayed away from the jocks because they would taunt him and sometimes even throw a punch at him, just because he was gay.

Jimmy had always been tall and skinny. He was six feet two inches tall and weighed only 125 pounds. And even though he was so skinny he had a small layer of fat on his body. He was pasty white and soft. He had blue eyes and light brown hair. Except for being so skinny and nerd like, he was actually pretty good looking. He had never gone to a gym class, never participated in any sports, never did anything with his body. All he did was study and play with his computers and hang out with his gay friends, who all looked like him.

During his first week on the job his manager told him about Google?s ?wellness? program. The company knew that the software engineers got stressed out on the job, working long hours under great pressure. So they established the ?wellness? program to encourage their employees to work out a little bit and eat healthier foods. The company believed that this would keep their employees healthier and less stressed out. Jimmy?s manager said that if he trained in the company?s gym three times a week for at least one hour per session he would get a bonus of $100 per month. Jimmy was totally broke after four years of college and lots of student loans, so that extra $100 sounded real good to him. The manager told him where the gym was and encouraged his newest geek programmer to try it.

So that night Jimmy bought some gym shorts, the only gym shorts he had ever purchased. He had an old tee shirt he was going to use. The next day after work he walked into the company gym with his shorts and his tee shirt under his arm. He was going to wear the same sneakers he used at work. The gym was quite large and well equipped - Google didn?t spare any expense. He looked around the room and saw a lot of geeks like him working out. Some of them were skinny. Some were fat. But they were all weak. They were lifting puny little weights and doing cardio. Then he looked over to his right and saw Chad approaching him. His mouth dropped open. Chad was 23 years old, He was 6? 1? tall and he weighed 205 pounds. And he was all muscle. Solid muscle. He was wearing a tank top that showed off his huge shoulder muscles and his bulging pecs and lats. His arms were gigantic. Under his shorts you could see his huge legs. His calves were enormous. And he was very defined. It looked to Jimmy like he had absolutely no fat on his body. He was all muscle. He had very tan skin, brown hair and brown eyes. Jimmy kind of froze. Chad was a jock. A total jock. The kind of jock that always picked on Jimmy. And now he was walking right up to Jimmy and he was smiling.

?How ya doing?? said Chad as he held out his hand. Jimmy held out his hand and Chad shook it, gripping Jimmy?s hand just hard enough to show him his enormous strength. ?I?m Chad. I?m the trainer in this gym.? Jimmy stared at Chad?s body. ?Hi. I?m Jimmy. I kind of figured out you weren?t a geek computer programmer,? he stammered. Chad laughed. ?No, I don?t know squat about computers. But I know a lot about muscles. I was a wrestler and football player in high school. In ninth grade I only weighed 120 pounds and when I graduated I weighed 195. So I gained 75 pounds of muscle in high school. Then I got into bodybuilding and really toned up my body. In college I majored in Kinesiology. That?s the study of the movement of the human body. I learned about every muscle we have and how to build them. I learned how to eat right and how to work out right. And then I got my personal training certificate. Yeah, I know muscle real well. I was training one of the Google executives in a local gym and he asked me to come work for the company, training all you little geeks. I love it here. The pay is great and I don?t have to bust my ass looking for clients ?cause you?re all right here.?

Jimmy nodded his head. He was still mesmerized by Chad?s incredible body. Chad continued. ?Now I know you?re never gonna look like me. I?m a jock. I?ve always been a jock. And I?m a mesomorph so I can build muscle real easy. You little geeks are never gonna be able to build up as much muscle as I have. But I can give you inspiration. I?m gonna give you some incentive, some hope. Maybe you can put on a few pounds of muscle. You gotta work out right and eat right. I?m gonna push you to work out your weak little body. You?ll feel better. You?ll work better. That?s the whole idea. So welcome to the gym. Go change into your gym clothes and then we?ll get started.?

So Jimmy changed into his gym clothes and walked out of the locker room. Chad was waiting for him. ?Okay, first we?re gonna weigh you and take a few measurements. Then you?ll be able to tell if you?re adding muscle. And we?re gonna take a few pictures. They?ll be your ?before? pictures. After a few months we?ll take some more pictures and see if you?ve improved. It?s all part of the wellness program.? So Chad weighed Jimmy at 125 pounds. ?Very skinny for your height,? Chad laughed. Then he wrapped a tape around Jimmy?s chest. ?Flex your chest muscles,? he said. Jimmy flexed. ?You?re not flexing! Flex ?em!? Jimmy looked at Chad. He was so embarrassed. ?I am flexing. I just don?t have any muscles to flex.? Chad laughed again. ?Oh, sorry,? he said. ?Thirty three inches. God your chest is so small. My chest is 48 inches. Forth-eight inches of muscle. And that muscle is strong. I can bench 375 pounds.? Chad looked at Jimmy like the jock he was. Strong and dominant.

?Okay, flex your arm.? Jimmy flexed but there was no muscle to flex. His flexed arm looked the same as his unflexed arm. ?Whoa, you are so skinny,? said Chad. ?You?re one of the skinniest guys I?ve ever seen in here. Nine and a half inches. God, that?s skinny.? Jimmy put down his arm and Chad grabbed it. ?Your arm is like a little straw, like a little stick. We?re gonna put some muscle on that arm. Here feel my arm.? Jimmy reached out and grabbed Chad?s arm, which was hanging like a big piece of hard meat at his side. ?Oh my god,? said Jimmy as he felt the thick hard muscle. Then Chad raised his arm and flexed his bicep. ?Eighteen inches of solid rock,? he said as he looked approvingly at his huge flexing bicep. You could see fibers of muscle almost bursting through his skin. Veins covered the muscle. Jimmy?s mouth dropped open. ?Oh shit! It?s so fucking big! And it?s so fucking hard! I never thought human flesh could get this hard!? Chad smiled. ?Yeah, its big and its hard. All my muscles are big and hard. Remember, I?m a jock. A total jock. And you?re just a geek. But I?m gonna try to put some muscle on that little stick arm of yours.?

?Okay, now the leg.? Chad wrapped the tape around Jimmy?s skinny little leg. ?Sixteen inches. Fuck, my arm is two inches bigger than your leg. We gotta put some muscle on those legs. My legs are 27 inches. Maybe we can get you up to 18 inches or so.? Jimmy looked at Chad?s legs and the trainer flexed them for his little geek student. ?I can squat with 450 pounds,? said Chad. ?That?s a lot of fucking iron.? Jimmy couldn?t believe how much weight that was. All he could say was ?Wow!? as he looked a Chad?s huge legs.

?Time for the picture Strip off your shirt,? said Chad. He got a camera from his office and stood Jimmy against a wall. ?Okay, just stand there.? Snap. ?Now raise up your arms and flex your biceps.? Snap. ?Now stand there and do this. Flex all your muscles.? Chad hit a most muscular pose. ?Okay, do it.? he said. Jimmy tried to hit the pose, but he had no muscles to flex. Just bone and skin. ?Okay, turn around and just stand there.? Jimmy turned and stood there. ?Last one. Flex your biceps again. We?re gonna get a picture from the back.? So Jimmy flexed. Snap.

He turned around and said, ?Can I get a couple pictures standing next to you? That would give me a lot of inspiration.? Chad looked at him and grinned. ?Sure, why not,? he said as he ripped off his tank top. Jimmy gasped as he saw Chad?s abs. They were a shredded washboard of muscle. Chad handed the camera to one of the other geeks. First he got a picture of the two of them standing side by side, with Chad flexing his lats and abs and Jimmy having no lats or abs at all. Chad?s legs were huge and he flexed them a little bit, showing off how cut and hard his leg muscles were. Jimmy?s legs looked like little sticks. Another pic showed them flexing their arms in a double biceps pose, with Chad?s huge biceps dwarfing Jimmy?s little twigs. Then there was a most muscular pose. Chad?s traps and shoulders and arms and pecs bulged with rippling muscle. Jimmy didn?t have any muscles to flex at all, just bone and skin and a layer of fat. Finally they did a side pose flexing their triceps. Chad?s tricep bulged with big ridges of muscle and his shoulder was huge with striations of muscle on top of what looked like a cannonball. Jimmy looked like a stick. No triceps, no shoulder muscles. Nothing. Jimmy looked like a skeleton. ?I?ll make a CD of these pictures while you?re doing your cardio and you can take it with you,? said Chad. Then he looked at Jimmy in the eyes and said, ?You?re gay, aren?t you Jimmy.? Jimmy gulped. ?Yeah, how could you tell?? Chad laughed. ?I guess I?ve got gaydar. I can tell when a guy checks out my body the way you did. I can tell when he touches my muscles and gasps, the way you did. And then when you asked to have pictures taken with me I knew for sure. You?re gonna beat off four times tonight, right?? Jimmy gulped. Chad was like a mindreader. ?Uh, well maybe two our three times. I can never get to four.? Chad laughed again. ?Fuck I can cum six times in one night when I?m really horny. I?ve got a girlfriend and I fuck her all the time. She loves feeling my muscles as I fuck the shit outta her.? Jimmy looked at Chad?s body and trembled. He wondered whether Chad was going to taunt him for being gay, just like all the jocks used to do in high school.

Chad looked at him and seemed to understand his concern. ?Hey, I don?t care if you?re gay. Lots of the geeks at this company are gay. I?m a paid professional and I don?t care if you?re gay or straight. And if you get off on my muscles that?s fine with me. I?m proud of my body. I?ve worked real hard to get these muscles and the gay guys like my body way more than the straight guys. Fuck, I?ll even let you feel my muscles once in awhile. Maybe you?ll keep coming to the gym. Inspiration, right?? He laughed.

TO BE CONTINUED

[Ender]

It's been a long time since I read or commented on any of Johnd's stories... But I thought I'd check to see if the character still relate to each other in the same brutish and uncivil manner they did in the past...

Well at this point in the story I'm not sure. Chad is a stereotype johnd character so far. He insults, belittles and in generally obnoxious to Jimmy from the instant the guy walks in to the gym... And Chad's comment to Jimmy that...

Yeah, I know muscle real well. I was training one of the Google executives in a local gym and he asked me to come work for the company, training all you little geeks. I love it here. The pay is great and I don?t have to bust my ass looking for clients ?cause you?re all right here.?

Suggests to me that the Google exec that brought Chad to Google likes abusive relationships and most likely has a personal relationship with Chad. And that Chad's attitude didn't win him many clients at his old gym... I sure wouldn't pay anyone to abuse me the way Chad abuses Jimmy... But I'm not into domination/submission games.

Right now I would really like to see something seriously bad happen to Chad because for giving Jock's a bad rep... But it upsets me that I feel that way because I know he's just an ass whole.

I think and hope there is a chance that Johnd may yet surprise me and this will not be a rehash of Johnd's two or three basic stories again...

[charliepanayi]

Nice start, keep it up

I would say that I like the domination stuff in a lot of JohnD's stories, and my favourites of his that I have read have that aspect without it ever going too far (but then we all define 'too far' in different ways anyway). And he always describes muscle so well.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by Ender

I'm not into domination/submission games.


I think and hope there is a chance that Johnd may yet surprise me and this will not be a rehash of Johnd's two or three basic stories again...

A-MEN! to that sentiment!

Also {warning: quibble alert!} It doesn't seem quite realistic that a trainer at a corporate sponsored gym would be so dismissive of his clients. They're his job, not his personal ego props.

I say this because the rest of the stories by JohnD are so well written, with such good detail, that the characterizations are troubling because they fall into stereotypes fairly easily - crude, egotistical, dominating "jock" and passive, weak, helpless "gay nerd".

Aren't there any other stereotypes that might show up? Gay tough guy/ strong willed physical weakling / passive muscle man? Just asking...

(Although the muscle descriptions are great!)

Mdlftr

who will always read JohnD's stories, even if he disagrees with the stereotypes!

[johnd]

I'm surprised by these comments because I was trying to portray Chad as very supportive of his new trainee. Yeah, he's a jock and he brags about his body, but he wants to help Jimmy put on some muscle.

[nnnrg]

Originally Posted by johnd

I'm surprised by these comments because I was trying to portray Chad as very supportive of his new trainee. Yeah, he's a jock and he brags about his body, but he wants to help Jimmy put on some muscle.

Supportive? You don't use abusive language when you're being supportive.
Quote:

"training all you little geeks."

"?Now I know you?re never gonna look like me. I?m a jock. I?ve always been a jock. And I?m a mesomorph so I can build muscle real easy. You little geeks are never gonna be able to build up as much muscle as I have. But I can give you inspiration. I?m gonna give you some incentive, some hope."

?You?re one of the skinniest guys I?ve ever seen in here. Nine and a half inches. God, that?s skinny.? Jimmy put down his arm and Chad grabbed it. ?Your arm is like a little straw, like a little stick. [...]"

"Remember, I?m a jock. A total jock. And you?re just a geek."

End quote.

Not to mention discussing your sex-life with your client, in a dismissive way.

Here's the thing: If a personal trainer at ANY big company (especially Google) spoke to their CLIENTS that way, they'd be fired and possibly prosecuted for sexual harassment.

It's not supportive to call your clients "geeks" in the way you write this guy doing it. Supportive is when you encourage them, not putting them down. You don't have to lose the dominance while doing that either.
Here's supportive:

"training all you little geeks" => "training all you," and Chad made 'finger quotes' in the air, "geek computer programmers."

Note, he's using the same words Jimmy used, but dismissing them at the same time. Also note, not all computer programmers, especially at Google, are going to be un-athletic.

?Now I know you?re never gonna look like me. I?m a jock. I?ve always been a jock. And I?m a mesomorph so I can build muscle real easy. You little geeks are never gonna be able to build up as much muscle as I have. But I can give you inspiration. I?m gonna give you some incentive, some hope."

Not like that you're not, you don't start by telling your client that they'll NEVER be as built as you are, even if you believe that to be the case. That just pre-conditions them against even TRYING.

"You're not going to look like me. I'm a jock, always been a jock, and I have the right genetics for building muscle real easy. But you CAN be a stronger and more muscular YOU. I can give you inspiration. I'm gonna give you some incentive, some hope. And more important, I know how to do this, so I'm gonna teach you how to train your body."

See, establishing his credentials is fine, but to sell this to a self-identified computer programmer geek, he's going to have to show that he has a plan, and that he can help this uber-skinny dude.

?You?re one of the skinniest guys I?ve ever seen in here. Nine and a half inches. God, that?s skinny.? Jimmy put down his arm and Chad grabbed it. ?Your arm is like a little straw, like a little stick. [...]"

Insult much? How about,

"I'll be honest, Jim, you're one of the skinniest guys I've seen in here. Nine and a half inches." Jimmy put down his arm, and Chad grabbed it, nearly circling the bicep with one hand. "We're going to turn this stick into an arm, Jim. Here, feel my arm, ..."

Most obnoxious:

"Remember, I?m a jock. A total jock. And you?re just a geek."
To be supportive, "Remember, I'm a lifelong jock, a total jock, and until today you've been 'just a geek'. But if you do everything I tell you to do, without any excuses, we're going to put some muscle on you. You may still be a geek, but you'll be a muscle geek."

That's the real problem I have with abusive-pseudo-dominance stuff.
It's not a quality of a truly dominant person to push down the people around them. A truly dominant person may assert their control by requiring attention and respect, but they don't have to elevate themselves by lowering everyone else. The only time a truly dominant person will be abusive to someone is if that someone WANTS it, and has expressed that desire. And even then, they may simply say, "No, I don't want to do that."

[johnd]

Remember the title of the story, "Before and After."

[emsgdh]

The very things most complained about are among those things that I like most in Johnd's writing.

His characters can, at times, evolve. Who can forget that wonderful moment in "The Office Assistant" when the young stud invites the little man to leave the floor and sleep next to him in the bed as he'll be needed in the night.

I consider Johnd to be at the very top of gay erotic writing, writing with an emphsis on BIG muscle.

Carping about his writing is like complaining about Niagra Falls.

[brahms97]

I've never been a fan of Johnd's writing since he has usually been one of the primary practitioners of the sadistic humiliation genre that is so popular here on the Forum. However, I don't want to prejudge this story since his last outing, The Best Night of My Life, turned out to be practically a love story.

Mdlftr - Certain improbabilities in the plot are inevitable in the sadistic humiliation genre because, outside of the primary S&M relationship, the real world seldom puts up with all the "alpha male" crap for very long. And you yourself have lavished praise on other authors who pile on the improbabilities in order to keep the humiliation going. It's just a matter of keeping the willing suspension of disbelief engaged.

One thing I have always wondered about this genre since it has so many fans is whether the fan base is primarily straight or gay. The sadistic muscle guy in these stories almost always has the same line "I'm big and I fuck chicks into oblivion all the time. You're tiny and impotent, but if you're lucky I'll fuck you just to show you how pathetic you are." Is that a gay or a straight fantasy?

Just wonderin'

[Ender]

Originally Posted by Johns

I'm surprised by these comments because I was trying to portray Chad as very supportive of his new trainee. Yeah, he's a jock and he brags about his body, but he wants to help Jimmy put on some muscle.

Well Chad may want to believe that he being "supportive" but that's rather like a rapist claiming his victim asked to be raped... Similarly there are some individuals that consent to sex then afterward decide they were coerced and claim rape... Both are equally delusional...

Originally Posted by johnd

Remember the title of the story, "Before and After."

By that should we assume Jimmy is going to become an even bigger self inflating abusive ass-hole than Chad is now... Isn't that the basic plot line of "Teen Cousins" having the abused become an abuser that inflicts even more pain on his former abusers... That's a rather sad commentary on the human race...

That's why I generally don't comment on Johnd's stories... getting a great body requires a person to become something that no sane person would want to associate with... Despite being well written the stories are sort of depressing... Sorry for bringing up the subject...

Ender

[Padraig]

Even though my tendency is to write stories with a love affair angle, there's nothing I enjoy reading more than a John D story. It always feels like he is writing just for me.

Thanks, John, for all the you have contributed and all that you will hopefully write in the future!

[Xyggurat]

What I don't get is when we suddenly started slamming people instead of giving respectful criticism on this forum. I read a few of the comments on this thread and went, "Seriously?" I can't believe I'm reading people making qualitative judgments on 'word porn.' I don't think I've ever glanced up at a porno and said, "Gosh, it sucks how he is being so demeaned by that leather daddy who's pounding him. What does this say about the plight of the shaven Latino jock with a belly-button stud in America?" ...I mean, if I ever watched porn like that. Which I don't.

Next time I think about posting a chapter of a story, I'm going to be worried about reading comments on "More of that Xyggurat crap, with his stupid muscle theft preoccupation and big words."

-X-

[arpeejay]

Thanks for the great story, John! I look forward to the next installment!

xoxo

Richard

[danilupoa]

John I love your story!!! They express my muscle fantasies!! keep the working coming coming!! I?m a big fan from a long time!!

[philat99]

Looking forward to the AFTER!!! It should be well worth the misery felt by so many from the BEFORE!
Mike

[Ender]

It has never been my intention to ever "slam" anyone or any story, I may sometimes phrase things more bluntly and without caveats I mean to apply to them. It's a common failing among INTP personality types and particularly people with Aspirer's Syndrome.

Any comment I make is a statement of my personal opinion... If you agree with me or not I don't really care. I am simply stating my personal feelings.

I have stated before that in my opinion if you write a story and post it here, CYOC or anywhere else you really need to be doing it because you feel a need to... and really not expect to get any feedback on it... I haven't bother to attempt to work what fraction of the people on this or any other site never express opinion on any story. When some one takes the time to read a story and is moved enough by it to comment it means the writer connected with a reader... isn't that the point of writing the story to connect with somebody... and share an idea. I forget who it was that said "There is no such thing as bad publicity." The same is true of any sort of feedback in this sort of forum... any reply is good because you reached someone with your story.

"Don't have such a thin skin!", That is what the Chads would always tells me if I took umbrage over the constant put down and taunts... That I have had to endure all the self appointed "Alphas" trying the force me into submission over the years is it really surprising that I don't like "Domination/Submission games?" And I find it very offensive when anyone tries to be manipulative by play the "I'm the dominate one here" gambit by saying "Maybe I won't post anymore stories here..." if someone says something that rubs an author the wrong way... I guess that the Chads should maybe grow thicker skin too.

Another thing that INTP's and Aspies tend to do is to take stuff more seriously than they should... That arises from taking language very literally and not being as quick to realize that an alternate less literal meaning is the correct one to employ. Personally I don't read the stories as porn... I tend to read-around the sex (beyond some self gratification and maybe some casual touching.) So for me they're PG-13 romps with friends/buddies building/growing/showing off/enjoying muscle alone and in small groups. having the hierarchy of a Dominant/Submissive relationships and the associated games would seem to me to get in in the way of "good/clean" fun and make things to messy.

The reason I find Johnd's stories to be depressing is that I end up feeling betrayed... He starts out with "hero" that's likable and I can empathize with easily, and a villain that is as easy to hate... but by the end the hero becomes as bad if not worse than the original villain but the old villain never seems to be able to redeem himself. Or the hero submits to the villain and the world just sort of curls up and dies... nobody wins everyone loses... All the relationships are forced into dominant/submissive terms never a partnership of equals. Which seems to be the best pairing... I really have trouble imaging any BDSM based relationship being loving and stable in the long run.

Sorry for the rant and stirring up hate and discontent. Really that is never my intention... but I do have some buttons that are rather easy to hit without intending to do so... especially when work and other things have me stressed out to start with...

Again my apologies getting people upset...

Ender

[nnnrg]

Originally Posted by Xyggurat

What I don't get is when we suddenly started slamming people instead of giving respectful criticism on this forum. I read a few of the comments on this thread and went, "Seriously?" I can't believe I'm reading people making qualitative judgments on 'word porn.' I don't think I've ever glanced up at a porno and said, "Gosh, it sucks how he is being so demeaned by that leather daddy who's pounding him. What does this say about the plight of the shaven Latino jock with a belly-button stud in America?" ...I mean, if I ever watched porn like that. Which I don't.

Next time I think about posting a chapter of a story, I'm going to be worried about reading comments on "More of that Xyggurat crap, with his stupid muscle theft preoccupation and big words."

-X-

What slamming? John said he didn't understand why people thought the character was unsupportive, and I explained why. Read any book on motivational speaking, or better yet, "The gentle art of verbal self-defense" to get an idea of the subtleties of this kind of language.

Clearly John has some favorite personality patterns that he likes to express in particular ways, but in trying to express 'supportive' he didn't quite reach it. If he hadn't said that he intended 'supportive,' I would have thought he intended the character to be trying and failing to overcome his own innate arrogance.

As for "qualitative judgments on word porn" ... I can't believe that you think this is inappropriate. Writing is writing, and whether or not it's porn, qualitative judgments are the only way anyone will learn what their audience gets from it. "Gosh that was good" is ego-puffing but useless as feedback for improvement.

I admit there were three points where I got off-track about the "why" and gave unsolicited feedback, and I apologize to John for that, if he doesn't want that kind of feedback. First was the "How corporations work" bit, which is a forgivable "background flavor" choice, second was that there absolutely ARE very healthy and athletic "computer geeks", but that wouldn't set the contrast as sharply for the trainer being a superior specimen, and the last bit where I pointed out the difference between dominance and what I see as faux-dominance.

And no, X, I don't really like muscle theft stories as erotica, in general, because I don't find it arousing when someone gets hurt, but as long as you use them correctly, the big words are quite refreshing. I assume you bring this up because you're a bit insecure about writing the same kinds of stories? Keep writing what you want. If you want to branch out, then do it, if not, then don't. But if you DO ask for feedback (even by implication) then expect people to give it.

[Xyggurat]

Originally Posted by nnnrg

But if you DO ask for feedback (even by implication) then expect people to give it.

One of the big problems with the Internet, I think, is that everyone feels like EVERY piece of feedback is worth giving.

An "I hate your stuff because of recurring themes but I continue to read it each time just so I can mention that I hate your stuff" doesn't provide any critical benefit to a writer. John obviously likes writing this stuff, and some people like reading it. How does challenging it thematically help?

-X-

[brahms97]

Don't worry, Xyggurat. There are plenty of readers on the Forum who love muscle theft stories and they will be very appreciative of your next offering.

As to criticism and negative reactions in general, I would agree with you that we should be more circumspect and "helpful" in our comments to new authors for whom posting their story was perhaps an act of courage. But for more seasoned authors, I think most any reaction, other than personal attacks, is acceptable. Johnd has been writing these stories for at least ten years, and has never shied away from controversy. If memory serves, there was one story about masters and slaves on a plantation that stirred a bit of a reaction back on the old Yahoo group. I suppose it's a blessing and a curse for a prolific author whose name becomes associated in readers minds with an entire genre to receive reactions like this.

So although I appreciate, for example, Richard Jasper's efforts to encourage authors and respond "XOXO" to every story posted here, I don't think responses should be limited to love letters (cum-stained though they may be).

Dave

[Kymuscleboy]

I really liked part one of the story, and I'll love it even more if it goes the direction I suspect. In addition to the title, there were some excellent bits of foreshadowing in the text such as,

"He had never gone to a gym class, never participated in any sports, never did anything with his body. All he did was study and play with his computers..."

If Jimmy's truly never tried any type of excercise, then nobody (except johnd) knows how Jimmy will respond to weight training. The possiblities are endless!

As far as the criticism of Chad, I see where johnd was going. It's hard to convey the cocky jock attitude while also making him seem supportive of the less athletically inclined. Some slight changes in the language would probably get the idea through more clearly. At any rate, I can't wait for the upcoming chapters.

[slab99]

I can't wait for another great johnd story. I especially like the trash talk, or cocky talk, or domination - whatever you want to call it. And judging from the title, I'll bet the trainer gets a dose of his own medicine by the end.

[giantw]

This thread displays the familiar calls from the SAME peanut gallery of would-be literary critics who are assailing a regular and prolific poster to this forum simply because they disagree with the content of his work.

GET A LIFE PEOPLE!

The authors work hard on their contributions and do so for free. The stories and artwork are the driving force of this forum and community. The authors and artists are kind enough to post their work seeking recognition as much as constructive criticism. Criticism ceases to be constructive when you tell the author to write about something else; when your criticism fails to help the author improve his story, but simply disputes and quibbles with the content on which he has chosen to write.

You KNOW Johnd's stories explore themes about dominance. You know their hallmark is the coarse and sometimes abusive dialogue between the protagonists. So why all the bitching? If you disliked horror novels, would you read, and then complain, about a Stephen King book? If you hate romantic poetry, would you then read, and later complain, about a collection of Alexander Pope's work? Judging by the above comments, some of you clearly would, as the SAME critics seem to make the SAME petulant critiques of JohnD's work! It is almost as if you come to this thread just to complain! Though that is absurd, and I think there is a far different reason for all this lofty, self-righteous whining...

But let's look at the cookie-cutter criticisms to which Johnd has been subjected:

Oohhh your characters are too mean and dominant....There is no real love story here...Boo-fucking hoo! You want schamltz? There's plenty of it around. Go check out another thread...Personally, I hate that kind of stuff...BUT, and this is key, you will never see me knock an author that posts something I find displeasing. For example, I am not a big fan of muscle daddy stories, and yet I am GREATEFUL for these story posts! I may not like them but many others do, and that is great. That is what the community needs and thrives on: varierty, artistic expression, creativity, gratitude.

But nooooo....you quibbling, pompous "critics" with your irrepresible need to impose your standards and preferences at the expense of those who contribute to this site...you guys can't walk away from a story you don't like, can you? You always have the time, energy and ARROGANCE to type some nasty message off to the author and explain how he failed to please you. Who gives a shit about what you didn't like about the story? If I don't like a story, I won't sit there and bash his work. I will simply move on. Why can't you? Just move on...but I guess that is too much to ask for a group of people who think they're better than everyone else and cannot restrain themselves from the opportunity to explain to the world how and why.

You critics are a JOKE. Your criticism is a JOKE. Want my theory on why you critics do what you do? You are sad, miserable creatures hiding behind your keyboards, whose only satisfaction comes from putting down the work of others in the virtual world to make up for your failures in the real world. That's my opinion which, much like your attacks on Johnd and his work, is completely unsolicited. But hey...if you feel you have the right to criticize his work, then I can criticize your criticism with just as much zeal. I will close with my eternal advice to you self-appointed literary geniuses, you connoiseurs of the written word, you keepers of the creative muse...

GET A LIFE!

Thank you.