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Old December 26th, 2009, 09:51 AM
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Stories, when is it 2 much

Okay

Please don't flame me for this or hate me or whatever but I want to ask a question. One that I've asked before, feel free to respond in earnest, but at least try to be civilised. If what I ask seems directed against you, please dont take it personally, it's not meant to be a personal attack.

Okay, facts first:

This is a FANTASY muscle growth story site. Kewl. I understand that and I understand it's pure FANTASY. But, when does the fantasy become to much?



I'll use an example: I don't know if any of you know a blog called muscle kids inc. I browsed it today and was a bit put off by one or two of the stories hosted there. It's a bit weird to say the least, be that as it may, I know there are / were some stories here that I also questioned wether it should indeed be shared (Semi) publically. My question is, aren't those stories taking it a bit 2 far? In fact I'm amazed that blogspot have made no move to remove it, however it may not be considered taboo material? I have to confess that I dont mind stories about teenagers though, so maybe it's just a preference thing and since these are just stories... well, I still think that they should rather host the site with membership like this site does.

Okay, to be fair I know Nifty Archives a lot of dubious stories involving minors as well (both for str8 and gay) and generally it seems most people tolerate the fantasy aspect of it. Like a person really wouldn't want to rape another person (i hope) but they enjoy reading such fantasy stories?

I would actually just like to know what you guys think? How you feel about stuff like this... you know the age issue, incest, gore that kind of thing.

I for instance think going pre-Teen is a bit sketchy, 15 and up for a fantasy story is fine, i guess. Also roughing it up is fine, but some stories get to gory for my taste. And (I'm gonna get it) furries for instance... weird, Ill still say some of the furry art guys really draw amazing muscle, but I still cant get my mind around the whole thing. I mean it looks cool, up until a point.

Okay, rather say this post is basically once more to ask, what you guys think. What's okay what's not okay. Is there a moral high ground here? Or is am I attacking the freedom of speech here?

Soz for the long post!
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Old December 26th, 2009, 10:42 AM
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I agree with you. There seems to be a point or line that should not be crossed, even in the name of fantasy. I checked out the blog you referred to and I feel the line was crossed, On the other hand, if the blogger is "underage" and exploring his or other minors' fantasies, a question arises. Should they? on a public blog site? I'm uneasy with it.

My personal feelings tend toward the 18 and older for sexual situations. Incest is nearly always taboo. I can only think of one story that I read on Nifty, Werewolf and Son, where incest was essential to the storyline. Ordinarily, I've found that a storyline does not suffer by making the youngest person 18 rather than under 18.

What's so special about 18? I guess it's societal - what we've been taught is acceptable and not. Now for a further question. Many states allow individuals as young as 15 to get married with parental consent. Does this constitute an admission of maturity at such an age, or something else? Culture determines a lot in terms of age, maturity, and consent.

For me and my taste, 18 is the usual accepted line. I prefer 21 and older.

One last thought. It seems that moving below the 18 line promotes predation by pedophiles.

Mike
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Old December 26th, 2009, 12:47 PM
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Regarding such story content, I usually find myself in agreement with the old quote that goes something like, "I don't respect what you say, but I will defend your right to say it."

I don't even care much for sex stuff, let alone things like rape. I usually skip those parts in an otherwise good story, and if the story's primary focus seems to be all about stuff like that, then I simply don't read it. That's my choice, but I don't need that story forced to be made unavailable to appease my personal interests or values.

As for 18, it's just a modern myth that's become excessively perpetuated through western society over the last few decades. "Pedo" usually references under ages 11 or 12; before maturity begins developing. I think it's a bit silly to pretend young adults around ages 12-14 aren't developing sexually, but again, I don't care for stories that seem to make people that age into something to be taken advantage of and I'll skip by them if that's the case. (And, to be annoyingly technical, "pederasty" is the "proper" term for old people sexually into younger teens; a category of interest I would argue shouldn't even exist.)
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Old December 26th, 2009, 01:29 PM
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Well, I am the owner of Muscle Kids Inc., and as the owner I wanted to make the site about muscle kids, I didn't originally want it to be a "sexual" site, but I guess there is a certain sexual connotation that is felt in muscle growth, and some of the people who sent their stories in connected with that, and sent stories in where there are sexual matters dealing with pre-teen boys. That may be taboo, but it is not, as far as I know illegal.

I do place warnings on the stories, because I know they are not for everyone. I do not think that pedophiles go around looking for stories like this, and if they do, I don't know about it. It's a "fantasy" site, as you put it, and therefore people are allowed to explore their fantasies concerning muscle kids, as there are 21 followers on the blog, I can tell there are a lot of people who do have fantasies of that style. I do not encourage these people to engage in that In real life, but these stories are so far fetched that they could not possibly be considered real life. If I had a feeling that these people do get off on real life sexual situations involving children, I would shut down the blog poste haste, but I don't get that feeling. I can see how people can take it the wrong way, and I will continue to monitor the blog, if there's any indications that there are real people attempting to take these stories to the next level, then I will take action.

I myself am not, nor have ever been a pedophile, I have a family, I have a niece, and 7 nephews, there are no feelings other than familial love that I have for them, that's it, I swear I would never harm them in any way, nor would I expose them to harm from other people.
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Only those serious about young muscle need apply. We do accept stories, but let's keep it clean. This is the only place on the web where Ragman's "My Nephew" Stories can be found.
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Old December 26th, 2009, 01:37 PM
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I usually don't mind young teenagers as long as the sexual aspect is contained to other teens. There's a creepy power imbalance between young and older guys. And I don't really enjoy pre-teen material at all.
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Old December 26th, 2009, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anpuZA View Post
Okay, facts first:

This is a FANTASY muscle growth story site. Kewl. I understand that and I understand it's pure FANTASY. But, when does the fantasy become to much?



I'll use an example: I don't know if any of you know a blog called muscle kids inc. I browsed it today and was a bit put off by one or two of the stories hosted there. It's a bit weird to say the least, be that as it may, I know there are / were some stories here that I also questioned wether it should indeed be shared (Semi) publically. My question is, aren't those stories taking it a bit 2 far? In fact I'm amazed that blogspot have made no move to remove it, however it may not be considered taboo material? I have to confess that I dont mind stories about teenagers though, so maybe it's just a preference thing and since these are just stories... well, I still think that they should rather host the site with membership like this site does.

Okay, to be fair I know Nifty Archives a lot of dubious stories involving minors as well (both for str8 and gay) and generally it seems most people tolerate the fantasy aspect of it. Like a person really wouldn't want to rape another person (i hope) but they enjoy reading such fantasy stories?

I would actually just like to know what you guys think? How you feel about stuff like this... you know the age issue, incest, gore that kind of thing.

I for instance think going pre-Teen is a bit sketchy, 15 and up for a fantasy story is fine, i guess. Also roughing it up is fine, but some stories get to gory for my taste. And (I'm gonna get it) furries for instance... weird, Ill still say some of the furry art guys really draw amazing muscle, but I still cant get my mind around the whole thing. I mean it looks cool, up until a point.

Okay, rather say this post is basically once more to ask, what you guys think. What's okay what's not okay. Is there a moral high ground here? Or is am I attacking the freedom of speech here?

Soz for the long post!
Well Anpuza, to start, you chose to look at a place, and to some degree, already knew what to expect, merely by the title of the blog. So the fact that you looked, can only lie with you.

Now, about the stories themselves. Are you talking about all of the stories posted there, or only the ones with 'sexual content' (which is warned about at the start of each story)?

This topic has been brought up time and time again in the past, without any real conculsion ever being made. However, the general idea I've managed to realize is...that if it involves an underage character growing more muscular, then it's fine. The difference (and often time problem) is having any sort of sexual content (no matter how little or how much there is) based on the rough age of the character.

But that's only for this site. Not blogspot. That's somewhat why I believe the stories were put there, and not here. To avoid a discussion such as this one. (As for how right I am, I'll let Iceman say yay or nay to it.)

Now, as for 'furries' and 'anthros' I could explain the psychological aspects, but that would be a really really long post, and I don't wanna write it. But that aside, they do seem to have a lot more artists willing to draw muscle (and other fetishes).
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Old December 26th, 2009, 04:09 PM
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Hey

>>>Reply to The MM

Yes, I did choose even though one could infer certain aspects of the site from the title. As with any browsing on the internet, especially where the subject matter is not intended for "younger eyes", I've found myself staring at -sometimes in shock, horror and even mirth- what I foolishly clicked into. And I'm sure I aint the only one.

Yes I made a choice based on a title, however the saying goes, dont judge a book by its cover. It was just my luck that I read two stories that seemingly had hardcore scenes in them, I'm assuming that the majority does not.

As for the warnings in the beginning of the story (ies). I must admit that I skipped that, and some parts of the stories as well, so I cant really speak for the rest of the blogs content, but I point you to philat99s response.

{Let me ask you a question: if there was a site which displayed pictures of people beating up helpless kittens and I willingly (and stupidly) enter Kittybashing.com, must I then shut-up when I see what it's about? Obviously such a site is way beyond Ice's blog in terms of being illegal, so it's probably a crappy example but I it's the quickest one I could think of}

If this doesnt make sense, sorry Im a bit spazzed its almost 2 in the morning.

>>>Reply to Iceman

Thanks for the honest reply. I understand what you're saying and I know that the kind of subject matter you and your subscribers write about will likely happen when Mars invades us. The subject matter is indeed very taboo in western culture, yet seemingly more ubiquitous than one would think. Like Lolita for instance, though it's a bit different.

In fact, I'd like to slightly alter the direction of this thread, or maybe just the mood of it. Basically I'd like to know what your (not just Iceman) likes and dislikes are RE muscle growth fantasies. And why is it so... ?

(Soz, I'm not a psychologist {youll notice from my crappy spelling} but I'm a detail driven person. And it's also kinda nice to find out more about the rest of you. Hell, I dont think it can hurt. Can it?)
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Old December 26th, 2009, 04:28 PM
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[QUOTE=anpuZA;118078]
>>>Reply to The MM

Yes, I did choose even though one could infer certain aspects of the site from the title. As with any browsing on the internet, especially where the subject matter is not intended for "younger eyes", I've found myself staring at -sometimes in shock, horror and even mirth- what I foolishly clicked into. And I'm sure I aint the only one.

Yes I made a choice based on a title, however the saying goes, dont judge a book by its cover. It was just my luck that I read two stories that seemingly had hardcore scenes in them, I'm assuming that the majority does not.

As for the warnings in the beginning of the story (ies). I must admit that I skipped that, and some parts of the stories as well, so I cant really speak for the rest of the blogs content, but I point you to philat99s response.

{Let me ask you a question: if there was a site which displayed pictures of people beating up helpless kittens and I willingly (and stupidly) enter Kittybashing.com, must I then shut-up when I see what it's about? Obviously such a site is way beyond Ice's blog in terms of being illegal, so it's probably a crappy example but I it's the quickest one I could think of}

If this doesnt make sense, sorry Im a bit spazzed its almost 2 in the morning.
/QUOTE]

Ok, I just wanted to get that first part about 'choice' across.

And no, you certainly haven't clicked on something only to be shocked at what you saw, whatever it might have been.

Well, as for how much is 'hardcore' that's really an opinion thing.

I wasn't telling you to 'shut up' or anything like that. My only point was that topics like this one have been posted many a time in the past, and that we never really seem to get anywhere new with them.

I can understand Philat's post. But this is still the internet, there's far worse things to be looking at. And I don't mean illegal things either.
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Old December 26th, 2009, 05:47 PM
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I absolutely agree with you. I get a sick feeling when I wander into sites dealing in any way with young kids and I immediately exit. The content of the site you mentioned really isn't bad but just the fact that its stories deal with 8 and 10 year-olds is a little creepy.
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Old December 26th, 2009, 08:14 PM
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The MM is right, the reason why I put the stories on the blog is I knew only people who were enthusiastic about the subject would want to go to the blog and read the stories there. I know from experience that posting content about kid muscle, no matter how innocent it is, will most likely be deleted on a forum such as this. Not that I am attacking the moderator or administrator of this forum, they have their own set of rules, they have the right to keep or delete anything they want. That's an important part of why I wanted to make it a blog, because I have full control over what goes into it.

I think, though, you are right, in terms of exploring the site and not knowing what may be there, and being offended by it, I could have done things better. So to make sure that anyone who comes into Muscle Kids Inc. knows that there will be content that may not be to their liking, I put the warning that some stories do involve adult content in the header, and I will make each story that does have sexual themes have a more clear warning.
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http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/yfhmk/

Only those serious about young muscle need apply. We do accept stories, but let's keep it clean. This is the only place on the web where Ragman's "My Nephew" Stories can be found.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 12:08 AM
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Soo AnPuZA I hate to bash you here but Its just gotta be said. This topic has been brought up way to many times, the underage characters in stories. It has caused feuds and lots of issues with the forum, and just as we seemed to have moved on, you just had to bring it up again.

What the Fuck.

There's no reason why you should have brought this up again, you obviously are interested into the underage characters in the stories because you seem to know a lot on where to find them.

The fact of the matter is all those stories on that blogger website and nifty all have HUGE DISCLAIMERS. Its not like you ran into the stories all innocently, you knew full well, as it says in the disclaimer, that the story you were about to read involved sexual themes with minors. Yet you continue to read them, as you said you read a couple on just blogger alone.. Most guys who are disgusted with it will stop right away, and not dig further.

Please do not come on the forum and post a thread about your insecurities with this obvious fetish you have with underage muscle boys. If you wanna poke around to see if other guys on the forum like it, then quietly do it. We don't need to bring up this heated debate once more

I hope everyone can just drop it right here

I'm NOT defending the writers who post muscle boy stuff

I simply don't want to see another vicious and heated thread grow on the forum
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Old December 27th, 2009, 01:02 AM
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Oh dear

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeenMuscleGod View Post
Soo AnPuZA I hate to bash you here but Its just gotta be said. This topic has been brought up way to many times, the underage characters in stories. It has caused feuds and lots of issues with the forum, and just as we seemed to have moved on, you just had to bring it up again.

What the Fuck.

There's no reason why you should have brought this up again, you obviously are interested into the underage characters in the stories because you seem to know a lot on where to find them.

The fact of the matter is all those stories on that blogger website and nifty all have HUGE DISCLAIMERS. Its not like you ran into the stories all innocently, you knew full well, as it says in the disclaimer, that the story you were about to read involved sexual themes with minors. Yet you continue to read them, as you said you read a couple on just blogger alone.. Most guys who are disgusted with it will stop right away, and not dig further.

Please do not come on the forum and post a thread about your insecurities with this obvious fetish you have with underage muscle boys. If you wanna poke around to see if other guys on the forum like it, then quietly do it. We don't need to bring up this heated debate once more

I hope everyone can just drop it right here

I'm NOT defending the writers who post muscle boy stuff

I simply don't want to see another vicious and heated thread grow on the forum


Yet you are the one stepping it up to that level.

Well, like I said earlier, I have no problem with teens featuring in the stories. In fact one of my favourite stories was about an older teen guy actually being dominated (and loved, and protected) by a younger guy of 14. Some people will get creeped out by that, but I remember myself at that age (though I'm not the dominant one). So from the fantasy view point I don't see much of an issue. No I wouldn't actually GO for a 14 year old kid. Oh, see... kid. Mmm. Descriptions, descriptions.

So the definition of muscle kid, muscle boy is a bit loose. As you can see.
Plus I was browsing through linked users when I saw the site listed in their subscriptions (and they listed other muscle fetish sites) why wouldn't I go in? I am also rather curious. I think most people are.

Personally I'm not out to bash IceMan or the like. I found 2 of the stories I browsed through to be more than enough for me to make my decision. So why two? Yes some people would probably leave the site after reading the first one... but I've been browsing sites like nifty / blogspot and this forum long enough to know you have to go through the process to find the ones you like. Yes Iceman put in warnings and I apologise profusely. I should have read them, but I didn't.

As for the warnings... you are now enter a blog with adult material, would you like to enter YES / NO. Doesn't cut it. And the blog opened up on the most current story, which is something called Golden boy or such. So sue me if I scrolled down to get a rough idea of what the story was about.

Well honestly, whatever you think of me, is your problem. Honestly I have no problem if the story just involves a kid of 9 or 10 out muscling older guys. And I am going to make this clear - I didn't for one moment think that the stories were written by people who actually engage in such acts. In fact, from the get go I said that I understand it is fantasy.

My question is simply: Why? Not 2 judge... I don't think the guys that like the stuff are all living in their parents basements and eyeing pre-schoolers lustily. Like I'm pretty sure most people into furries don't eye their pets lustily.

Last edited by anpuZA; December 27th, 2009 at 01:14 AM.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by anpuZA View Post
Some people will get creeped out by that, but I remember myself at that age (though I'm not the dominant one). So from the fantasy view point I don't see much of an issue. No I wouldn't actually GO for a 14 year old kid.
Let's be real...This fantasy makes YOUR DICK HARD.

Now you would like us to believe that you innocently stumbled upon that website.

This hypocrisy is a bit "2 much".
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Old December 27th, 2009, 02:04 AM
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Let's be real...This fantasy makes YOUR DICK HARD.

Now you would like us to believe that you innocently stumbled upon that website.

This hypocrisy is a bit "2 much".
Ummm, okay you quoted me saying I like musclegrowth fantasy when it happens to teenagers. Thou (like Iceman) I would never consider relations with someone of that age.

As for "stumbling" on to the site:

I don't know if any of you know a blog called muscle kids inc. I browsed it today...

And

Yes, I did choose even though one could infer certain aspects of the site from the title.

Yes I made a choice based {meaning I chose to enter regardless of what might be on there...} on a title, however the saying goes, dont judge a book by its cover.

Plus I was browsing through linked users when I saw the site listed in their subscriptions (and they listed other muscle fetish sites) why wouldn't I go in? I am also rather curious.

Not once did I give the blog owner up as the person at fault. I don't question their right to view such stories / fantasies. I understand freedom of speech and I don't want that taken away from them or me. If Iceman felt so threatened by my thread why would he reply so openly and honestly? In fact he was quite adult about it and I will once again thank him for that, he put up his side of the story and I'm fine with it.

Read:

>>>Reply to Iceman

Thanks for the honest reply. I understand what you're saying and I know that the kind of subject matter you and your subscribers write about will likely happen when Mars invades us. The subject matter is indeed very taboo in western culture, yet seemingly more ubiquitous than one would think. Like Lolita for instance, though it's a bit different.

In fact, I'd like to slightly alter the direction of this thread, or maybe just the mood of it. Basically I'd like to know what your (not just Iceman) likes and dislikes are RE muscle growth fantasies. And why is it so... ?

(Soz, I'm not a psychologist {youll notice from my crappy spelling} but I'm a detail driven person. And it's also kinda nice to find out more about the rest of you. Hell, I dont think it can hurt. Can it?)


I wasnt out to attack... from the get go I made that clear. I would simply like to know why.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 10:38 AM
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We can not know that which is unknowable

Why do we like what we like? I?m not sure there is an answer to this question. I don?t know why the whole muscle growth thing gets me hard. I only know that it?s a fetish that I?ve had since before I was old enough know what it was. Back then it was just a fascination that I just didn?t understand.

I also know that my version of it is different from a lot of other people?s. I get off on the growth, just a little guy getting inhumanly massive. I like good physical description of the change. I like to know what?s going through the guys head as he goes from skinny to muscle monster. And I like comparative strength feats. For example a guy who may have trouble opening his car door at the beginning of the story is ripping it off its hinges and crinkling it into a wad by the end. Love this kind of stuff. There doesn?t need to be sex in a story for me to get off on it.

And for some reason I find it even hotter when it happens to high school kids. I wish I could explain it. I can?t. I?ve tried to work it out. I?ve come up with some theories, but in the end, it?s beyond my self analytical skills. I seriously believe this kind of thing is beyond our intellectual understanding and falls under the animalistic side of human nature. It is a thing of raw instinct, unrefined and indefinable, just a force of nature that we are powerless against.

And I think this also applies to those people whose tastes run younger. Getting turned on by boy muscle is not a choice they made; it?s a thing they were born with. But what is their choice is how they choose to deal with it. And the stories on that site are a pretty harmless way to do that.

Personally, preteens having sex is a complete turn off for me. In fact, I think it?s disgusting and putrid and it sends me running in the other direction just as far and as fast as I can go.

Stories about preteens who get huge, muscular and powerful that don?t include sex or sexual innuendo don?t bother me. After all, cartoon shows have been doing that for decades. But it isn?t much of a turn on for me either.

So to sum up, I don?t think the ?why? question is answerable. It assumes everything has an intellectually understandable explanation and I firmly believe this is not the case.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 10:38 AM
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Now that we've gotten some of the heated debate outta the way...

Anyways AnpuZA, here is the 'why' that you've been asking for (and I'm confident others will agree):

It is simple. All of us here love muscle, and love growing muscle, primarily as an erotic fetish. If we didn't, we wouldn't be here. But we were all once kids, young boys who looked at things like bodybuilders and superheroes (amongst any other early muscle sightings), and thought, "I want to be like that" or "How did he get so big?" For others, it might have been a little bit later, such as their teenage years. However, the basic thing is that it was encountered, and it stayed with us.

So, stories and such being written about muscle boys, is not really met to be erotic 90% of the time. You could almost consider them being 'what-if' stories of our own lives.

Anyways, that is the why you've been asking for. Yes, some of those stories do have underage characters in sexual things, that hasn't changed. While I admit, I don't always agree with having sex in stories like that either, I still enjoy the idea of going back to being a boy, but with a totally different life style.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 12:08 PM
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I'll also answer the why question, when it comes to muscle kids I have always loved the size difference equation in these things, to have the boy be smaller heightwise and weightwise, but to have bigger, stronger muscles is always a very nice story element that I have always enjoyed reading. It doesn't have to be about muscle kids, it could be grown ups too, if there's some little 5'1 guy who weighs 230 pounds of muscle and steps up and outflexes a guy a foot taller and 100 pounds bigger than him, that turns me on as well. Kid muscle and strength is also unexpected, I don't get off on things that are too normal, too expected, like a 6'4 330 pound guy is supposed to be strong, but if a 10 year old, 4'10 boy that is 200 pounds of muscle, is just as strong, if not stronger, than that gets me going. People say write what you know, write what you fantasize about, well, size difference and unexpected physical superiority is what I like to see in stories and what I like to write about.
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Only those serious about young muscle need apply. We do accept stories, but let's keep it clean. This is the only place on the web where Ragman's "My Nephew" Stories can be found.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 02:45 PM
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Hey. Yeah it seems that the "contrast" for want of a better word is what does the trick. Iceman I see what you are getting at, and The MM I agree though I never really wanted to *be* the big muscled up superhero. More like the rescuee than the rescuer. Or (for those of you who remember - and now I'm giving my age away.) I kinda always ended up playing with Teela or the Sorceress, when we played with my He-Man figurines. *sigh... he-man*.

Anyway... yeah Jaypat I agree with you. We are a reflection of our childhood and our milleu I suppose. And I guess stories are pretty harmless... as long as the person viewing them are an adult / mentally old enough to deal with such things.

Anyway, merry christmas by the way - soz, shouldve thought of that earlier!!! (even thou its a bit late)
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Old December 28th, 2009, 06:52 AM
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i'm not interest in discussing these kind of stuff (it seems like a boring discusion for me :P) But I agree with TheMM said about furries, they use to be the biggest. I always wondereed, why the guys drawing the biggest muscles are always in furries???
I dont mind furries, they are fine to me, but i'd like to see some nonfurry artwork from those great muscle artists (same happens with femalemuscle. They always draw them in such dimensions i berely see in male morphs, which is a pity)
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Old December 28th, 2009, 11:12 PM
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i'm not interest in discussing these kind of stuff (it seems like a boring discusion for me :P) But I agree with TheMM said about furries, they use to be the biggest. I always wondereed, why the guys drawing the biggest muscles are always in furries???
I dont mind furries, they are fine to me, but i'd like to see some nonfurry artwork from those great muscle artists (same happens with femalemuscle. They always draw them in such dimensions i berely see in male morphs, which is a pity)
I concur with that finding... it's really something that I would like to see happening 2!!!
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Old December 30th, 2009, 05:48 PM
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Hm, I think anything dealing with pre-teens is deplorable. Especially since it all leads to sex at one point. So anything involving folks under 16 is just too creepy to read or watch. Even 16-17 is cutting it kind of close, but 16/17 year olds are mature enough to know what's what, and if sex does pop up, it won't be TOO bad... Still creepy though, especially if his/her partner is older than him/her. Even age-progression involving preteens is odd (because their minds are still that of a preteen).

TL;DR
Anything under 16 = gone too far
Anything between 16~18 = cutting it close/very close.
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Old December 30th, 2009, 06:08 PM
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I find these conversations interesting from a historical perspective context, as age of consent is a relatively new construct. It's also a testament to American puritanism as the age of consent in such first-world, western countries as Spain and Germany have ages of consent as low as 13 and 14 (respectively). I'm not denying anyone a right to his own opinion, but the idea that an entire society should be shocked by such things as young teens having sex and finding it "deplorable" and especially "unnatural" are ironic at the least.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 09:23 PM
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I find these conversations interesting from a historical perspective context, as age of consent is a relatively new construct. It's also a testament to American puritanism as the age of consent in such first-world, western countries as Spain and Germany have ages of consent as low as 13 and 14 (respectively). I'm not denying anyone a right to his own opinion, but the idea that an entire society should be shocked by such things as young teens having sex and finding it "deplorable" and especially "unnatural" are ironic at the least.
First: I completely forgot about this thread! Good heavens.
2nd: I agree with you. I consider the concept of the "teenager" as the leading reason why the younger generation of today have absolutely no concept of responsibility. Technology wise we are better... but are we better mentally and spiritually? If a boy hit puberty back then it was expected of him to start acting like a man... yes, they were still young. But responsibility was part of the package deal unfortunately, at least at 15 you were expected to act like and conduct yourself as an adult.

Truly think about it. What happens today. Here you have this guy with adult urges, but the responsibilities of a kid. Whenever and whatever they fuck up, Mommy and Daddy will help them out. In America you guys allow your kids to drive dangerous weapons at 16. Yet consensual sex is only allowed later... wtf?

I'm not saying people should pimp their teens in order to educate them better.

I'm just saying, handle them like adults. Punish them as adults when they do stuff they are not supposed to. I think for the most part the greatest wrong in this society of ours is the veneration of youth. We chase after it at every opportunity.

Anyway, have to go to work... so I'll edit or post on this more later!
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Old January 15th, 2010, 06:48 AM
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I agree with you, anpuZA. One of the most significant differences is the public school system that basically babysits children through the age of 18. In older times, kids would apprentice for a real trade and begin real work as early as 11. I'm not saying that's better, only that our system of high school postpones real responsibility to a much later age than previously done. Paul Graham has some interesting essays on the subject.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
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I agree with you, anpuZA. One of the most significant differences is the public school system that basically babysits children through the age of 18. In older times, kids would apprentice for a real trade and begin real work as early as 11. I'm not saying that's better, only that our system of high school postpones real responsibility to a much later age than previously done. Paul Graham has some interesting essays on the subject.
Never forget that responsability is first learnt at home, so parents are most responsible of their own kids growth, maturity and responsability (moral and ethics as well) and not only leave the stuff to schools to deal with.

All starts at home.
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Old January 15th, 2010, 12:25 PM
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bitch bitch bitch bitch

I think there are some posters on hear who like to read their own writhing. Get over your own problems and insecurities you don't like it don't read it like on TV or movies LEARN TO PETROL YOUR OWN PERSONAL MEDIA IF YOU DONT LIKE IT DONT FUCKING READ IT. GET OVER YOURSELVES DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.
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