Good Advice

[florida20]

Two years ago I was in a 6 month training program in California for my job. I made a friend named Jeremy there who became a pretty consistant training partner. We were both right out of college and in pretty good shape. He was short, about 5'8" but you could tell he had that swollen yet still slightly thin look about him (dunno if that's a good visual, but he was about 160). Anyway, we were working out and we both noticed this huge guy working out. He was about 6'2" and could have professionally competed as he looked a lot like a bodybuilder does offseason. My bud had always wanted some serious muscle and just went over and talked to him about how he got so big. Jeremy always had a muscle guy swagger, so it only made sense that he get the body to back it up.

The guy couldn't have been more willing to help; he gave us a pretty intense training session. I was nursing a shoulder I had injured the month before, so I left about 40 minutes into the session to avoid overworking it. The next morning my friend came into class and said that they were there for over 2 hours and basically was told everything the guy could think of, including diet, sleep, supplements, etc. I could see the gleam in Jeremy's eyes. I just smirked and told him he was trying to get over his Napoleon complex. Well, I could never really train as hard as Jeremy wanted due to my shoulder (it's rediculous how much we use it for anything upper body), but I stuck it out with him for the remaining month, spotting him when he wanted and such. Every now and then Ron, the big guy with all the advise, would come up to Jeremy and help him out some.

Over the weeks I started noticing some definite improvement. His veins were becoming more pronounced, I noticed that all over he was getting tighter. I also noticed that Jeremy was absolutely loving it. I remember a specific time when he was doing bicep curls and he pumped out maybe 5 more than I'd ever seen him do just because he was so entranced by how swollen his biceps looked. And I'll admit, they were getting pretty gorged. It was only a month, and honestly, how much size can you put on in 30 days.

So I left San Diego to go work in Dallas while Jeremy stayed in San Diego to work at the branch there. I lost contact with Jeremy pretty immediately and never really thought about him much. I lived in Dallas for 2 years but was recently promoted and sent back here to San Diego again. The branch gym here is pretty good, so I went right back the day I started working here (about 2 weeks ago). I was working out not 10 minutes before I hear my name and turn around. My jaw drops. I know its Jeremy right away because his face is pretty much the same, but aside from that he's a new person. He weighs in at a whopping 230 which is insane for a person his height and it is all muscle and veins. He has the body of an ONseason bodybuilder. He was wearing a pretty snug tank top that showed off every ab ripple and was grinning ear to ear when I commented on the explosion.

He said that even though we both thought we were training as hard as was possible, Ron showed him what high intensity truly was. He said that after that first month (after I left) he began packing on poundage almost daily. 30 pounds of the 70 he's put on in the 2-odd years came in those first 3 months after I left. Ron had this whole philosophy of feeling every muscle your working contract to its fullest and to absolutely NEVER do a bad rep. Also, he advised never to count your reps (it only limits you). The list goes on and it worked wonders for Jeremy. He actually plans on competing this summer.

The best part of all this is that Jeremy's taken me under his wing. In two weeks of working out I feel that I've made 2 months worth of progress. The program is killer. And I have crazy inspiration what with Jeremy as proof. I'll keep those interested updated if I have as much success as Jeremy... I have officially caught the muscle bug.

[omelissokomos]

That was so cool. Hope you keep us updated on your progress.

[brent]

That was a really amazing post! I'm glad that your friend got his dreams! Was he able to get it all naturally? I'd love it if you could post some pics, and more of Ron's advice that could help us all achieve our goals!

[bulkinupbig]

Florida20,
Congratulations to both you and to your friend.
That is exactly what it takes. Hard work, intensity, and adherence to diet, supplementation, etc.
It does not come from some magic elixir or through some magical spell... but through hard work, dedication, consistency and a strong desire or hunger to really want to bust your A** in the gym.

Will have to train with you guys when I am in San Diego.
Bulkinupbig

[arpeejay]

I'm with Bulkingupbig on this one:

My *favorite* muscle growth stories are the ones that are real! They don't get much hotter than this one! Many thanks for sharing!

xoxo

Richard

[BigLittleTim]

I'm also sure he's been forthright about what steroids he's using, how much they cost, and offered to share his source with you... as a good friend would.

-BigLittleTim

[UKBeefy]

I'm with Tim on that one...5ft8 guys don't end up at 230 naturally from 160...certainly not with a ripped look either (that means off season of 250-260 min which is SO not natural at that height) and definitely not in that time frame. He has done well but a little bit more honesty of how it came about would be helpful.

[xythan_shadow]

Heh, I just happen to be 5'8'' 255 right now. Granted I'm not in the best of shape, but I am a naturally big guy. My goal is to be 230 ripped, or at least tankish.

Going from 160 to 230 though is kind of a stretch though, but I wouldn't say impossible.

Originally Posted by UKBeefy

I'm with Tim on that one...5ft8 guys don't end up at 230 naturally from 160...certainly not with a ripped look either (that means off season of 250-260 min which is SO not natural at that height) and definitely not in that time frame. He has done well but a little bit more honesty of how it came about would be helpful.

[brent]

Well I think it would be difficult for someone that small to get that big, that fast, with or without steroids. The fact that the original poster hasn't returned yet makes me think it might be bogus.

[xythan_shadow]

Don't dash the dreams of some the guys brent.

At least we all got personal enjoyment from the tale, whether it be fiction or fact.

[BigLittleTim]

As a friend of mine once said: "It's not lies... it's fiction."

Seventy pounds of muscle in two (2) years?? And of course the "muscle swagger" from the short fire-plug with the "Napoleon Complex", who turns out even BIGGER than his original muscle-mentor (who only looked like an "off-season" bodybuilder, not an "ON-SEASON" bodybuilder!), "packing on poundage almost daily", weighing a "whopping 230 lbs." with a stretch tank-top that shows off his "rippling abs"!!! Yadda, yadda-yadda.

<yah!>

Probably should have been posted in the "muscle fantasy" forum.

-BigLittleTim

[florida20]

Hey all, noticed all the negative reactions and just thought I'd give a quick post. First off, the reason I haven't posted is because honestly there's nothing all that exciting to post. I've been working out with Jeremy for the past few weeks and I seem to be getting results. I've put on a couple pounds and feel that I'm improving overall, but I honestly didn't feel that was worth posting. I'm just not structured to put on muscle as fast as my friend did; I've had to fight for every pound I own and am proud to have what I've got.

Second, I'm not a hundred percent sure what Jeremy's height/weight was two years ago. I am guessing 160 and 5'8. I guess I could find out for ya but what's the point, I thought it was a motivating story and didn't think it mattered. The only numerical facts I have are that he is currently 227 and put on 30 pounds in the first 3 months he and Ron were working out together. The rest is assumptions to help paint a picture of my experience.

At any rate, believe me or don't; it's no skin off my back. I just thought that it was a worthy experience to post and I decided to share. Also, Jeremy doesn't use illegal steroids, but he seems to use anything else. I know he uses Cell-Tech, uses creatine occationally, protien of course, and a few other suppliments I'm not completely familiar with. I'll use a few suppliments, but for the most part the advise I want out of him is eating habits, basic lifestyle ideas, and of course, gym techniques.

[vlad]

my opinion: whether he's using illegal steroids or not, and I'm going to take your word and say that he's not because you don't have a reason/don't seem to lie on here, this is still a cool story that's very hot. short thick guys are the best!

[arpeejay]

What Vlad said.

A couple of things to keep in mind:

(1) Not all the comments were negative and the "negative" ones were more skeptical that negative, per se; sometimes folks tend to let their skepticism get the better of them.

(2) It's great to hear that your friend has transformed himself (regardless of how he he did it) and it's cool to see you following his lead and feeling good about it. PLEASE keep us posted (and pix would be swell!)

All the best...

Richard

[brent]

I didn't want to come off as overly negative, but there are a lot of posts here that turn out to be total BS. Generally, it's just a single post, and then you never see the person again. It is a very cool story, and I hope you get HUGE!

[BigLittleTim]

Originally Posted by florida20

Also, Jeremy doesn't use illegal steroids, but he seems to use anything else. I know he uses Cell-Tech, uses creatine occationally, protien of course, and a few other suppliments I'm not completely familiar with.

Not to be "negative", but your friend is lying to you.

The world is full of guys who use steroids, and lots of them lie about it even to their nearest and dearest. I know a guy who is a 280 lb., 8% bodyfat, complete steroid-freak, and he swears on his mother's soul that he's only done Creatine and MetRx shakes. He's really big, really hot, and really a liar.

Spend a little time on steroid and bodybuilding boards, as well as on fantasty boards, and you'll get a good idea of what the guys with the bodies you admire really have to do to achieve those results. IT IS HARD, GRUELING, NON-STOP, MERCILESS WORK, and... anabolic steroids. My God! The eighteen year-old kids who put on twenty pounds of muscle in two years are juiced to the gills.

[buffdoc]

Originally Posted by BigLittleTim

Not to be "negative", but your friend is lying to you.

The world is full of guys who use steroids, and lots of them lie about it even to their nearest and dearest. .... The eighteen year-old kids who put on twenty pounds of muscle in two years are juiced to the gills.

Well said bro. It is the truth.

[glammaman2000]

In my early 20's I was able to put on 30lbs.of muscle in 3mo.simply through supplements,NATURALLY OCCURRING growth hormone(it doesn't shut off until about 25)&WORKING OUT LIKE A MANIAC!It took me from 160lbs.to 190lbs.Of course,I hit a brick wall after that.I just hate it when people say you can't make impressive gains without drugs.You DO have to train REALLY,REALLY HARD!&it won't take you to the"pro"stage.But you just may find out you don't need that!

[BigLittleTim]

Underfed, never-worked-out-before guys can make amazing gains (30 lbs in 3 months is even a bit of a stretch) when they first put down the T.V. remote, start eating well, and join a gym -and go regularly. You go from skinny average american guy to; "Gee, you really work out, don't you!"

Then you hit a brick wall.

You have achieved your maximum genetic potential with all factors at optimum levels (diet, exercise, sleep.) It is HARD, GRUELING, MERCILESS WORK to build up the human body, with or without steroids. Can you make impressive gains without the drugs? Yes. Of course.

I, however, just hate it when someone claims that they or someone they know, who's 5'-7" tall, went from 160 lbs. to 230 lbs. of ripped, rippling muscle in two years by using "CellTech" and Creatine ("CellTech IS Creatine plus Dextrose, by the way),but has never touched steroids

(OH, the high moral fibre of the lad! To WANT a body like that SO MUCH and yet resist using steroids (Why?) which are about as commonly available as AIR MOLECULES in any serious gym. As my italian boyfriend would have said: Marron!!)

I am not one to call bull-shit on someone else's stories. I generously suggested it might be "fiction", not "lies". It is just a terrible dis-service to those who begin to think there is something fundamentally wrong with themselves because they are doing everything "right" in the gym and yet still don't look like the big boys they emulate.

The Government lies. The Rich cheat. Bodybuilders take steroids.

In the immortal words of Madonna: "Deal with it."

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

In my early 20's I was able to put on 30lbs.of muscle in 3mo.simply through supplements,NATURALLY OCCURRING growth hormone(it doesn't shut off until about 25)&WORKING OUT LIKE A MANIAC!It took me from 160lbs.to 190lbs.Of course,I hit a brick wall after that.I just hate it when people say you can't make impressive gains without drugs.You DO have to train REALLY,REALLY HARD!&it won't take you to the"pro"stage.But you just may find out you don't need that!

[nypup2train]

Last edited by BigLittleTim : Yesterday at 05:23 PM. Reason: mis-quoted Madonna

Well, that's it. I'm sorry, BLT, your membership will have to be revoked. Turn in your card by the end of the day.

...Getting back to the thread topic, one thing to remember of course is that anabolic steroid use ("abuse" is a judgement-laden word I don't like to fling around lightly, and it has no place in generalized discussion IMHO) at the levels we're talking about, if not directly illegal, involves illegal or questionable activities at some point in the process of getting the end product injected/ingested by the end user.

Especially if one has any expectation that there will be a repeat occurrence in the future, it's generally considered a bad idea for one to admit to performing or contracting illegal activities to any random friend/stranger/narc who inquires. ...Even by the authorities, except they have this wacky notion that one should also abstain from them as well.

I doubt those here outing juicers really would expect full disclosure, from all these LIAR!! steroid users. (Hey, I'm a liar too, my name isn't REALLY "NYPup2Train". I know you're all shocked and appalled.) Correct me if I'm wrong, and for a 5-point bonus on your final grade explain how that would work in a society that has laws. Be sure to address in your answer at least one of the several well-documented cases of pro bodybuilders actually being arrested, tried, and convicted of drug trafficking.

The problem I have, personally, is with the (relatively few) juicers who go out of their way to proclaim from every hilltop their drug-free, all-natural status. Maybe it's just because I'm a shitty liar, but I don't see the need to go and SEEK OUT people to lie to, in maintaining a fiction... THAT sort of activity creates the problem Tim mentioned, of others feeling like they're doing something wrong in their own training, because "Look, All-Natural Liars magazine did a huge 6-page profile of this guy, and he swears up and down he's never used steroids but he's immense!" But then again, capitalist society is built on the foundation of people who have 'the secret' publicly offering to sell their secret to others -- and selling a big load of anything but.

But then I'm the type of person who will answer questions I don't want to answer with the words, "I'm not going to tell you the answer to that" and be perfectly fine with whatever assumptions are made or offense is taken by the person asking. *shrug* Any situation where honesty in response to inquiry becomes offensive already has something inherently wrong with it, in my view. To put it another way, in the form of one of my Rules(tm): "Don't ask any question you're not prepared for any and all possible responses to."

(BTW: Those who assume that any evasion is an "admission of guilt" would probably be surprised how frequently the true answer to their question is not what they'd assume. A refusal to answer is not the same as a confirmation, and the "Well, if it's not what we assume then just come clean and tell us the truth!" concept completely breaks down our right to individual privacy and control over others' access to our inner thoughts and feelings. Nobody inherently owes anyone else an explanation for anything at all, in cases of personal decision and action. Not in any circumstance, not for any reason. Those who claim otherwise attempt to buy and sell the only things we have left, our private thoughts. But that's no reason to go out and spread lies in the name of protecting/hiding the truth.)

[UKBeefy]

good postings Tim and NyPup.

I likewise find that in my recent experience it has slowly dawned on me how prevalent taking juice is. from about 2 years ago I discovered through a whole series of conversations with friends and acquaintences that effectively anyone who had what I would call a "getting towards" or actual bodybuilder physique was on juice...I even had some acquaintences saying "what the hell are you bothering not doing juice for if you are bodybuilding?" It was this that changed my view that effectively almost everyone persuing the sport either seriously for comps or for serious leisure reasons was on "the other side" and that I was going to effectively waste years and years messing about thinking that eventually I would get those results naturally. As plenty of others have pointed out the utter hypocracy of the magazines and legit webpages is incredible punting their tubs of dextrose and whey. Once i realised what was really working for people it made my outlook much clearer - effectively if you want that bodybuilder shape u need some gear and it was more a case of reading, learning and establishing contacts to find decent suppliers and realising that while you'd benefit alot it only works with the rest of the "ducks in a row - training, diet, rest".

As Tim said from reading proper hardcore postings websites you realise how focussed alot of guys are especially some of the youngsters making huge gains. Their sheer effort is incredible regardless of their juice cycles.

In terms of public admittance of using juice I think there are some legitimate reasons for being cagey with what you want to say. I am honest with people I think are informed (mainly other bodybuilders/serious trainers who I know personally) but am vague with less informed people - alot of the general public either think all of your growth is down to steroids and that is hugely inaccurate and unhelpful or they think you are taking enormous risks and are unhinged which is not true either.

[brent]

Originally Posted by BigLittleTim

...
(OH, the high moral fibre of the lad! To WANT a body like that SO MUCH and yet resist using steroids (Why?) which are about as commonly available as AIR MOLECULES in any serious gym. As my italian boyfriend would have said: Marron!!)
...

I want to go to your gym! I've been working out for years, in many gyms, in several states, and I have NEVER seen even a trace of steroid use (other than big meaty men). I'm sure that my anti-steroid stance would disappear if only I were offered a source. It makes my feel like there is something wrong with me when you guys make it sound like finding gear at a gym is as easy as scoring good pot in Oregon...

[glassbear]

Brent, I am with you. The only men that I have seen who I believe are juicing(and I have asked some of them), deny it like a politician at an ethics hearing. And about finding pot in Portland...

...I had to chuckle at this one. At my last house in Portland, I was clearing out the brush in my back yard and all of a sudden realized that the weeds were WEED. Now if only I could find a Steroid Shrub.

About the origonal posting...I wanted to comment that regardless of the method, which sems to have become the focus of this thread, I am impressed with the friendship that has lasted over years and periods of separation. I am going to take that part as ispiration. It seems to be a rare thing these days.

[UKBeefy]

It really does show the huge difference that the law makes.

As Marco, others and I have pointed out here in the UK possession for personal use is not a crime. Hence while people are reticent about talking about it the air of "criminality" is much less. I have heard conversations in gyms and have witnessed transactions in gyms sometimes even with the gym owner being the dealer. Yes it is not screamed from the roof tops but neither is it so covert that you'd never know what was going on (and it would be exceptionally easy for the police to frame such people if they were bothered). Generally it requires you to be introduced to someone but when I was exploring potential sources and learning how many people were on stuff I probably had about 5 different potential source routes appear via trusted friends. If anything my problem is keeping various friends happy despite not using their source.

In many ways I think the grass is greener over your side of the pond on almost everything but in juice terms things are weighted our way....

[BigLittleTim]

Originally Posted by brent

I want to go to your gym! I've been working out for years, in many gyms, in several states, and I have NEVER seen even a trace of steroid use (other than big meaty men). I'm sure that my anti-steroid stance would disappear if only I were offered a source. It makes my feel like there is something wrong with me when you guys make it sound like finding gear at a gym is as easy as scoring good pot in Oregon...

NEVER seen even a trace of steroid use?

Staticians refer to it as "Reporting Bias".

ie: If you're looking for something specific, you'll find it.

The local Health Department will report "an increase in reported cases of STDs" (or whatever they're writing about), not just "an increase in STDs", for example. Incidents of STDs may have increased, but all they can talk about ,for sure, is that there are more reported cases to write about.

Sometimes it may seem there's been a big spike of something in the population, but it's just that more cases have been reported to health authorities; the doctors have been told that an outbreak is possible and they are specifically screening for it.

A more pedestrial example would be to ask yourself if there are any small tobacco shops along your route to work. You might say "No, I've never passed one before." but if you are specifically LOOKING for them, you realize there's one on every corner. The I.R.S. finds tax cheats because it's their job to LOOK for them, everywhere. You don't notice car commercials until you're in the market for a new car. Then, suddenly, they're everywhere.

"Reporting Bias", Baby!

Same thing with steroid use. To say that you've never seen any sign of steroid use except for some "big, beefy guys" is a bit ingenuous. You don't have to capture actual photographic proof of the guy with a needle sticking out of his arse to prove that he's on steroids. It's all around you, and not just the obvious juicers. Skinny guys; old guys; young kids (16 and 17 years old!); WOMEN; Generally, anyone who is even semi-serious about finding a source can get one.

I mean, look at some of the guys (posters on here, maybe?) who have done a couple of cycles, work-out like crazy, obsess about getting bigger and bigger and bigger , and look (sort'a... kind'a...) exactly like they did before they did ANY gear. They've made gains that they could have made naturally, in my opinion. If guys with quite ordinary and average bodies are juicing like crazy, what do you think the really obviously huge guys are doing?

I will say this about finding a source, it's a bit like hitch-hiking: It helps to look like the people you want to pick you up. Generally, it's easier to find a source the less you look like you need one.

-BigLittleTim

Do not ask me for a source.

[UKBeefy]

Originally Posted by BigLittleTim

I will say this about finding a source, it's a bit like hitch-hiking: It helps to look like the people you want to pick you up. Generally, it's easier to find a source the less you look like you need one.

Yes I'd second that one...as I did my first course this year I got alot more people coming up to me afterwards and asking how I was....and what was I taking/where I was getting it. For those in the know they can see when someone has made substantial progress in a couple of months. I had no idea people would really notice the gains (about 18lbs in 2 months) but they did. Uninformed people just complimented me, big guys just said "you must be getting some good s""t - what did u pay?"

[BigLittleTim]

Yeah. It seems like the most important thing in the world to just FIND a source.

Then, once you have one, you start to wonder if you're getting screwed on the price!



-BigLittleTim

[UKBeefy]

[QUOTE=BigLittleTim]Yeah. It seems like the most important thing in the world to just FIND a source.

Then, once you have one, you start to wonder if you're getting screwed on the price!



-BigLittleTim[/QUOTE1]

To me there seem to be too many sources. My problem is having bought some gear on the basis of recommendation every other person you talk to says you should be taking something else or implies that what u bought is not the real thing because it is in different packaging etc..

Still today I had a group of straight friends spend far too much time commenting on my build and saying "jesus have u been living in a gym or something..." shows something I bought must be working...

[arpeejay]

I think it's time you updated us on your stats, UKBeefy! Some pix would be nice, too!

:-)

xoxo

Richard

[UKBeefy]

Thanks Arpejay...

Current stats 5ft9 220lbs (up from 200 in April) Chest 47/48, waist 34 arms now about 17.25/17.5, Quads 25/26.

Am waiting on some pics to be sent to me that someone took last weekend.

[BigLittleTim]

I'm all a'tingle with anticipation, UK!

Congrats on the great progress!

-BigLittleTim

[UKBeefy]

Honestly I don't think I have changed that much but maybe I can dig out some older pics...

I feel like I am being steamrollered here into putting up pics...maybe I can get my workout partner to take some more comparison pics.

[arpeejay]

Oh, I dunno, UKBeefy. 200 --> 220 is usually one of those "next level" transformations, especially for someone (like you and me) under 6 ft.

And pressure?! Well, of course! :-)

xoxo

Richard

[growingbigger]

Originally Posted by BigLittleTim

I mean, look at some of the guys (posters on here, maybe?) who have done a couple of cycles, work-out like crazy, obsess about getting bigger and bigger and bigger , and look (sort'a... kind'a...) exactly like they did before they did ANY gear. They've made gains that they could have made naturally, in my opinion. If guys with quite ordinary and average bodies are juicing like crazy, what do you think the really obviously huge guys are doing?

I will say this about finding a source, it's a bit like hitch-hiking: It helps to look like the people you want to pick you up. Generally, it's easier to find a source the less you look like you need one.

-BigLittleTim

Do not ask me for a source.

I know this thread hasn't had activity for some time, but I had to comment on this part.

Many guys can be juicing as heavily as the pros but still look the same or only gain a little bit, and there is a reason for it. That's because there really is a secret to it, and that's what the pros know.

Here's a quote from the pro that runs the professionalmuscle board:

If your diet, training, health and rest are completely up to scratch, the more steroids you take, the bigger you will get. It's as simple as that.

Pros have got their diet, training (health for the most part) and rest up to a standard that works for them perfectly, but they are only the size they are due to the drugs they take. Don't beleive the crap from anyone, that they are not, even from the 'in the know' people that are on this board. Those very same people for the most part have used/use extremely higher dosages than what they preach. Why do they preach the low dosages? - various personal agendas.

Do you see the secret? I'll write it again: If your diet, training, health and rest are completely up to scratch, the more steroids you take, the bigger you will get. Genetics also play a role in that these pros can handle the large amounts of steroids without getting sick. Of course every pro and what they use is different, but the underlying principles are the same.

Even personally, I know that calorie intake is what is currently holding me back though I am gaining slowly. In the past when I was able to increase calories substantially, I was able to gain an additional 10 lbs in about 2 months (not fat).

Take it for what it's worth.

And just to comment about the original post...yes, the guy definitely used steroids at some point, and he really listened to what the big guy had to say, but essentially, he learned the secret I just mentioned.

[Lifter73]

Originally Posted by growingbigger

I know this thread hasn't had activity for some time, but I had to comment on this part.

Many guys can be juicing as heavily as the pros but still look the same or only gain a little bit, and there is a reason for it. That's because there really is a secret to it, and that's what the pros know.

Here's a quote from the pro that runs the professionalmuscle board:



Do you see the secret? I'll write it again: If your diet, training, health and rest are completely up to scratch, the more steroids you take, the bigger you will get. Genetics also play a role in that these pros can handle the large amounts of steroids without getting sick. Of course every pro and what they use is different, but the underlying principles are the same.

Even personally, I know that calorie intake is what is currently holding me back though I am gaining slowly. In the past when I was able to increase calories substantially, I was able to gain an additional 10 lbs in about 2 months (not fat).

Take it for what it's worth.

And just to comment about the original post...yes, the guy definitely used steroids at some point, and he really listened to what the big guy had to say, but essentially, he learned the secret I just mentioned.

Good bump as this was a very good post....I wonder how this guy/OP is doing now?

And yes, that is right on the mark as far as diet/exercise/nutrition. Those have to be dialed in just right for growth to occur. There are SO MANY guys out there that think that all they have to do is get on a cycle and BAM, they will grow. I know one person right now that has been going to the gym for what seems like forever and he simply complains about not making any gains. I have helped him through routines, given him advice but he simply will not push past that limit to get to the muscle failure for growth. HE jusr recently told me about his last cycle and how it did absolutely nothing for him. And what he does not see is that his training is not what it should be, his diet,form what he has told me...sucks.

In short a wasted effort UNTIL he really takes stock of his bodybuilding goals.

And as far as steroids, I feel that is a person's choice. If that is their choice so be it. The only take I have on it is that I feel that they should only be considered ONLY if you have gone balls to the wall with your training, diet and nutrition and you're at that "Damascus Road" as to whether you want to see how far you want to take your body and your muscle growth. And even then, you got to research and know what you are doing!

I myself am 5' 11" and have been as heavy as 285 pounds, and sure, it was all done with creatine and protein powder.....
LOL!

D

[BIGJOEY]

well this thread is interesting. First there are legit sources out there but you have to check the sites that list the scammers. Second anabolics are not some sort of magic pill ( shot) . Anybody who thinks that is in for a big suprise. You have to lift, eat right get your sleep and lift your ass off. If your not willing to do that and be strict about it then your wasting time and money. One needs to get blood work as well . Lots of guys i know forget that and wonder why nothing happend whne they have done a cycle in the past. Also it could be the items used and amounts, and how long they cycled for. There are a lot of factors involved. Anabolice are a personal choice .Me personally i feel that unless your hiv or doing a competition then you shouldnt do until you have hit your natural max. Also if your older then you can talk to your Dr about TRT. That usually helps a lot of guys to get over the hump.

[growingbigger]

That's exactly it, bigjoey. The pros have the eating, lifting, and sleeping down besides the gear they use. If they didn't, they wouldn't be the pros.

[BIGJOEY]

Thanks one has to give the real side of it .Lots of guys say they want to be pro but very few ever get there and for some it takes years. In the NPC which is the largest amature bodybuilding federation in the us ther are lots of shows. They all come down to the 5 pro qualifers. those shows are . Nationals (7), Masters Nationals (4), USA'S (3), North Americans (3), and Team Universe (1). Out of all these shows the amount of pro cards won each year is 18. SO to get to that level takes a lot of work and living the life 24/7. very few will do it.

[bigbob111]

Its not impossible to gain 70 pounds of bodyweight over 2 years. Especailly since an average person would have more potential for size gain - to a limit. Maybe the heaviest and best formed bodybuilders ive crossed paths with had impressive stats because of their HEIGHT allowing more mass to spread over. I dont think we will ever see many people exceed the 250 pound mark without drugs. its just the way humans are designed, no one was meant to reach the incredible sizes without carrying fat around too.

Ive recently gained 6 pounds in the last week. This came from eating like a pig, and working like horse, not from getting psyched up and Hoo-Ah! "i want size now!"

Just as a reference to the original post, It said never to a bad rep and dont bother counting. Can someone go into more detail?

[BIGJOEY]

there is a big difference between gaining weight and muscle. when we gain weight its water, fats and some little protein. It is possiable to gain 70 lbs of body weight but it doesent mean it going to be all muscle it will more than likely be mostly water and fat. people get the 2 confused all the time. fat and muscle are 2 different cell structures and one cannot convert into the other . If you dont believe me go to the supermarket and put 720 lbs of beef in your shopping cart and 30 lbs of fat and you will get the idea . You also have to remember people weight changes daily depending on how many meals you eat and fluid intake. you will be heavier at the end of the day as oppose to the am.