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Old October 4th, 2003, 11:14 AM
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Coming Out as a Bodybuilder/Muscle lover

Quote:
It seems like we (this group involved in this discussion) had two "coming out" events. One as a gay man, the second is as someone whos either into muscle or wants to be really big themselves.

I have no problem letting people know I'm gay; I'm out at work (extremely) and I just assume that everyone knows. (Surprised when some people don't! <G> ) I didn't come out until I was about 25 and went through the phases of "I hope nobody sees me at the bar!", and so on. (I'm 34 now.)

I'm having the strangest deja vu about this in regards to bodybuilding. Even the word causes me to feel like I'm talking about something illicit. I usually use the words "workout", "hit the weights", (etc) to refer to this, but bodybuilding is what we're talking about. It's not fitness training, and not for any other purpose. It's to look big, massive, and hard, and have that <something> while you walk around all day. And somehow, it causes me to feel embarassed that I should say "yeah, I want 20" arms."
There's a lot to respond to in this post. I've pointed out to a number of e-friends that I've been chatting with a trend that I have noticed. The comments go something like: "I like muscle. I always thought I was a freak and this was something to be ashamed of, then I found the forum and other guys who feel the same way. Now, I'm beginning to feel good about myself."

Yes, this is very much akin to coming out as LGBT. There is something freeing in knowing that you are not unique and that there are other people out there who feel the same way.

I'd love to have 20 inch arms and be a super heavyweight bodybuilder. It ain't gonna happen though. I'm a classic ectomorph. I'll be lucky if I can get 17 inch bis. On the other hand, because I have a small frame and small joints, I have an advantage that whatever muscle I do put on has the illusion of being bigger.

Right now I'm fighting with myself about how much I want to get bigger, and how far I will go? I can easily do the whole diet thing. Becoming a gymrat is harder -- lots of being teased as a kid and feelings of inadequacy in sports and strength to overcome, but I could probably get over that. What about steroids or other chemicals to overcome genetic limitations? Am I willing to go that far? (thus the internal argument I am waging)

But, as a gay man, there's another aspect to this whole issue of coming out. Yes, I want muscle on me, but I also am attracted to muscular guys. I recently wrote a muscle worship scene in one of my stories -- it was easy to write. I simply imagined what I want to do (in this case, to another poster to this site ). Like the desire to be HUGE, there are lots of issues with this attraction as well. Why would someone who is huge be attracted to me? Is this weird to have this particular attraction and not be one of the big guys?

Probably in the end, the central question is, "How do I live a happy life?" I don't know that I have any of the answers, but I don't mind asking the questions.

Anyone else care to share?
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Old October 4th, 2003, 02:36 PM
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my story isnt as detailed, but anyway I guess when I was younger I always interested in the idea of "growth" or getting bigger. Then when when I got older I found myself staring more at the guys then the girls. And I was always wondering when am I gonna like girls... Then one day it dawned upon me "your gay". At first I didn't accept it, but later I did. I still do still have a small interest in women, but i'm definitly more gay...

And that's pretty much it
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Old October 4th, 2003, 03:23 PM
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I'll agree that both (i.e. being gay and wanting/liking muscle) are similar in that they have, at some point, been held privately by the individual. I think the similarity ends there.

Being gay is something you are while muscle represents a goal and must, therefore, be worked toward. As with most goals, sharing them can be very risky in that you open yourself up to judgment of them. Getting into working out as a teenager is especially difficult for guys that aren't well built to start with. For the most part, you're in an environment where the goal is obvious and surrounded by the guys that may have made life hell in the past.

The second part of this is wanting to worship muscle, which is still more of a fetish that most people tend to hold privately unless they're comfortable enough in an environment to share.

RadRx
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Old October 5th, 2003, 12:02 AM
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Scott, you hit it right on the head head, like you usually do. Both the love of amuscled guy, or of seeing a guy grow more massively muscled whether real or fantasy, also is a big part of the drive to do the same, to become bigger, harder , and more muscular. I also am very attracted to built guys, although not necessarily the huge bb type. but anyone showing the muscle and hard work they have put in the gym. I use that everyday, to force myself to work harder, to get that same hard look... a desire, both in my for myself, and what I desire in a mate or partner..
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Old October 5th, 2003, 07:00 AM
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Radx:
Quote:
The second part of this is wanting to worship muscle, which is still more of a fetish that most people tend to hold privately unless they're comfortable enough in an environment to share.
I agree, but the problem/strangeness is that we live in a culture where this kind of body is elevated. Why be upset or feel embarassed about seeking it or wanting it? Isn't this a double standard? To work towards a goal one cannot acknowledge?

Quote:
Being gay is something you are while muscle represents a goal and must, therefore, be worked toward. As with most goals, sharing them can be very risky in that you open yourself up to judgment of them. Getting into working out as a teenager is especially difficult for guys that aren't well built to start with. For the most part, you're in an environment where the goal is obvious and surrounded by the guys that may have made life hell in the past.
I certainly didn't pick to be gay. (No problem with it, quite happy about it, but not a choice.) I also didn't pick to like muscular guys; and truthfully if I could change this I would. It narrows my relationship options too much. (Side issue: I'm considering the idea that personality traits that allow one to be very successful at bodybuilding are often the same ones that are destructive to relationships or cluster with similar traits to that effect. Not sure about it, but thinking about it.)

I agree that as a gay kid the environments you'd have to be in is not friendly to you. Thinking back to high school, I'd have had to have been A LOT more brave to work out around the guys on the football team. But today, now, why do I still have that awkwardness around admitting its what I want?

-R
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Old October 6th, 2003, 09:44 PM
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Good thread guys, thanks for sharing your thoughts. RyBear, I'd answer your questions by saying that you and I are upset or embarassed to admit that we'd like nothing more than 20" arms because our society's view of muscular men is hardly positive. I'm referencing "The Adonis Complex" here (a great read if you haven't read it, you should get it asap). Most stereotypes that surround meatheads are all negative: they aren't booksmart, they are vain, they live in the gym, they're inflexible, they're trying to make up for something, and they have low self esteem. To the average guy on the street, I doubt he'd say being huge has many benefits. Of course we see it very differently (being huge would rock)... so maybe that's why we're not comfortable admitting it - we don't see eye to eye with the common man. And I've also heard somewhere that most women actually don't like bodybuilder-sized muscles - they probably feel threatened or see that a guy who spends that much time in the gym isn't husband material.

Well, in the end, I'd like to admit that worshiping muscle isn't nearly as satisfying as seeing yourself pumped up in the mirror or finding out that your clothes don't fit anymore. Seriously. Because then you know all that muscle is yours, and you can flex it anytime.

Last edited by claygrant; October 6th, 2003 at 09:49 PM.
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Old October 7th, 2003, 06:30 PM
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I raised this topic in the first online gay in which I participated regularly, the Bears Mailling List, circa 1993. The response was "Oh, Puhleeze, you've got to be kidding!" Society, especially gay men, are all *about* muscle. Do you really think Arnold would even be running for governor of California if he had been a skinny Gray Davis geek?

So, yes, we keep it hidden and we're self-conscious about it. It's all inside our heads.

xoxo

richard
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Old October 7th, 2003, 07:11 PM
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Ok, we have some conflicting views here, but I guess that's the double standard I'm talking about. Let me try another angle:

Positive attributed qualities of being A Big Guy:
Confidence, strength, determination, power, drive, beauty

Negative attributed (trying to correspond to above)
Ego, abusiveness, inflexible, agression, stupid, vanity

"We see things not as they are, but as we are." Without actually knowing a person all we can do is attribute things to them; it's a projective test. If we have a positive view of something we make the positive attributions; the opposite also applies.

Claygrant: I read some of the adonis complex; I felt like I was reading someones' dissertation that had been repackaged as pop psych, but not rewritten for the public. Stopped after about 20 pages I think. I think the point that's missed is that society is denegrating something we seek rather than spend energy on seeking it. "If it came in a bottle, everyone would have it." If steroids had no side effects and weren't expensive, I'd do them in a New York minute. I think that's true of most Americans. Also, if it's so bad, why are gyms more and more popular, not less?
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Old October 17th, 2003, 12:14 PM
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Liking muscle/admitting it

Great thread here!

Straight guys worry about the same thing--"What does it mean that I like muscles/want to be muscular?"

I think it all boils down to self-image. Our society is NOT muscle friendly--American society is based on several value systems that are the anit-thesis of liking /wanting/working towards muscle.

Judeo-Christian tradition: the body is the site of sin--salvation is found in things not of the body.

Puritanism (American-style) : Life is hard, and painful. Existance on earth is to be endured and salvation is found through hard work.

"Vanity is a sin" [so, wanting to be muscular and strong is necessarily a sin in this context]

Greek myth of Narcissus: Beautiful man wastes away because he loves his own reflection

"Beauty is only skin deep" [Yes, and "Ugly goes right through to the bone" heard it a million times--what does it mean? Ugly is more pervasive than beauty? Beauty is only on the surface? Why is that logic valid: if both beauty and ugly are aesthetics, then they are just opposites of the same concept. They should both be "to the bone"]

Recent changes (over the last 50 years or so) combined with greater affluence and more leisure time make it "o.k." to spend time on activities and goals (i.e., muscle building) that don't necessarily have a simple economic or functional component.

I say, Keep lifting!

Mdlftr
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Old December 9th, 2003, 09:36 AM
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body fascism

the sad truth: if you want to have sex with muscle jocks, you pretty much have to BECOME one. sad but it's the reality. i have accepted this---"bought into" what i cannot control in my fantasies and my culture--and am now WELL on the way to getting really, really, really BUFF.

inspiration attached...
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Old January 9th, 2004, 07:43 AM
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Sorry to drag up this thread, but I just want to say this.

Last night, I told a good friend of mine that my ultimate goal in the gym is to be as muscular as physically possible. He was quite surprised by that, but I felt that I had to get it off my chest.

For many years, I've been repressing this feeling and making all sorts of excuses for doing it. In fact, the one story I wrote (which I haven't heard any feedback on) called "Muscle Emails" is autobiographical up to a point. I just have had a hard time admitting to myself that is what I really want and desire. If I actually started when these feelings hit, I would be huge by now.

Right now my main concern is whether or not my friend thinks I'm a complete psycho and still wants to stay in contact with me. Muscle is great, but if you have no friends to share your successes with, what's the point?
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Old January 9th, 2004, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Right now my main concern is whether or not my friend thinks I'm a complete psycho and still wants to stay in contact with me. Muscle is great, but if you have no friends to share your successes with, what's the point?
How much of a friend would the person be to not accept you, or even support you?

Friendships, like most human interactions, are complex. Many friendships are based on similar desires and goals. People change over time. Friendships have to change with them.

Your post got me thinking about a play I saw called ART. It is a wonderful play about friendships and how they change. Instead, I came across these, which express my feelings better than I could...

The Art of Friendship. . .

I was angry with my friend
I told my wrath, my wrath did end.
I was angry with my foe:
I told it not, my wrath did grow.

?William Blake, The Poison Tree

"Friendships begin with liking or gratitude?roots that can be pulled up."

?George Eliot

Most friendship is feigning.

?Wm. Shakespeare, As You Like It

Forsake not an old friend; for the new is not comparable to him; a new friend is as new wine; when it is old, thou shalt drink it with pleasure.

? Ecclesiasticus 10

Love is blind; friendship closes its eyes.

?Anonymous

Friendship is love without his wings!

?Lord Byron

"There is little friendship in the world, and least of all between equals."

?Francis Bacon

A friend should bear his friend's infirmities.

?Wm. Shakespeare, Julius Caesar

Think where man's glory most begins and ends, And say my glory was I had such friends.

? W. B. Yeats, The Municipal Gallery Revisited, VII
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Old January 9th, 2004, 10:02 PM
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Hmmm....

just to reiterate what all of Corwin's quotes were saying....your friend was probably surprised to hear it, but is glad that you told him! <g>

I've had trouble with that too....especially admitting it to other guys. Sometimes you wonder if, you tell a guy you like muscle, it'll hurt his feelings ("Am I not muscular enough?") or make him think that's ALL you like about him ("He just wants my body").

Weird, I know, but.....

Thanks for pushing this thread back up again!
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Old January 10th, 2004, 07:51 AM
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muscle

"Muscle is great, but if you have no friends to share your successes with, what's the point?"

You can keep your old friends when they realize that the only change is the physical change. If they don't get that, what kind of friends were they.
And:
You will make new muscle friends--they will be huge and you will flex together and grow together!
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Old February 2nd, 2004, 09:29 PM
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I think I can sum up this thread with one quote...

"True beauty only comes from deep within the inside. Only then can you actually be truely beautiful on the outside."

I know it sounds corny, but I truely feel these are words to live by. I mean a guy could be super massive and "look" hot, but once he opens his mouth, all that beauty goes out the window. My advice to anyone that wants to be HUGE, or is, is first they must love themselves, and, have a love for everything around them. In otherwords, have heart as big, or bigger than they want to be, or are. I've talked to a few really huge guys in my time (and I'm deffinately a smaller guy), but sadly, they're usually far away from where I am, however, I have discovered that the bigger they are, the more loving they are. I think this stems from having a big heart to love everyone and everything as well. As long as you have this heart and love, you already are truely HUGE on the inside, and, I think growing your muscles may be one of the ways of showing it on the outside and you can be as BIG as you want to be.

Also, if you're looking for love, go for the BIGGEST and most massive real guy you can find, and don't be afraid to talk to him. You might just get what you want.... out of love at least. Also, one thing we must remember, there is no such thing as the stereotypical guy anymore in any context.

I hope this advice helps somone,
Plug.
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Old February 3rd, 2004, 05:01 PM
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deep

Quote:
Originally posted by PlugNPlay76
...As long as you have this heart and love, you already are truely HUGE on the inside,...
That's such a great point I had to highlight it. Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder, and nothing makes someone ugly faster than knowing their beauty actually is only skin deep. I remember once when I was in the Navy, and had just been transfered to a ship. One guy in my division was this really hot guy that most gay men on my ship (including yours truly for a couple weeks) totally lusted after. He always worked out, naturally tan, he had great musculature (18" arms), a tiny waist, a really cute face, beautiful blue eyes, and one of the best smiles I've ever seen. However, he was conservative, insecure, homophobic, treated his wife like sh*t, rude, selfish, and about as ugly of a personality as his body was beautiful. Soon I no longer saw anything beautiful when ever I saw him. Months later when we were at sea, in the Persian Gulf, and we had one person sleeping inside each gun, as well as one, or two on-duty techs, many of the "Mary's" (as we referred to ourselves) would beg me to watch him sleep. I couldn't understand for a while, until I remembered how he looked to me before I actually knew him. I think that's when I started to realize on a much deeper level that beauty really is only skin deep, and when we learn what lies underneath, our perception starts to change to match what we know about them. Just a thought.
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Old March 8th, 2004, 08:32 AM
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"Is this weird to have this particular attraction and not be one of the big guys?"

No. I for one have no desire to be insanely huge. I just want to be healthy (with tight build, of course)! I cannot imagine myself with a bodybuilding type of body. It just does not fit into what my idea of "me" is.

But that is not stopping me from drooling over muscular men! In fact, it excites me to no end fantasizing about dominating much larger, stronger men... forcing them to submit with the sheer force of my will. Tee-hee. *wiggles hips provocatively*

PS: The freakier, the better. HS Muscl Boy, rocks! *worships*
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Old March 28th, 2004, 10:16 PM
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we'll i never want to ever have any sexual contact with another guy because it's just wrong. but i am into the bodybuilding lifestyle.
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Old March 28th, 2004, 11:28 PM
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What? Who? Why?

Quote:
Originally posted by jumpstart
we'll i never want to ever have any sexual contact with another guy because it's just wrong. but i am into the bodybuilding lifestyle.
Could someone please tell me why this guy is even here? Dude, this site isn't just about the bodybuilding lifestyle. If you want just that, you can go to a fully straight forum. This thread wasn't just about the lifestyle either. It was about being into huge and muscled guys, but not being one yourself. And yes, this would be considered a "gay" topic, but, you have to realize this place is also about fantasy and being with a massive guy, or being one yourself. This thread also adds another interesting element at which I formentioned, and that is the possibility of finding love and true beauty in a possible muscle monster.

In my honest opinion you do not seemed to have achieved that inner beauty, strength, or respect on the inside yet, and therefore, even though you may appear large, you will always seem small in comparison to those that have.

Thank you.
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Old March 30th, 2004, 08:29 AM
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jumpstart,what are u doing here..?

jumpstart,
it seems u dont realize what this site is all about.
ok, u are into bodybuilding.
but this site is into much more than that.
its about fantasies , about muscle stories, about transformations into super (male) bodies.
and yes, its about gay-dreams. and lifestyle. about muscle-guys who fuck eachother or kiss..

so if u dont like that.. just leave and go elsewehere, there are thousands of sites for straight guys who are just into bodybuilding.
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Old March 30th, 2004, 02:20 PM
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just my thoughts....

I don't necessarily agree with jumpstart, but I also don't see how this site should be exclusively for gay men. A story about a straight guy buffing up can have just as much right to call itself a muscle growth story as if it were about a gay guy instead.
However, at present, I believe the vast majority of stories on this site ARE about gay guys, so as I see it, jumpstart, and anyone else feels similar about this subject, have two choices:
1) either find a MG site or whatever involving more straight characters/themes/et cetera
2) or he and others can write stories or whatever involving straight characters/themes/et cetera, and thus make this site a more diverse place for everyone
no need to be exclusionary, guys...
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Old March 30th, 2004, 08:03 PM
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"Just wrong"?

Realizing that it was "not wrong" was the epiphany ...

( a moment of sudden intuitive understanding; flash of insight)

... that changed my life.

Same gender, mutually consensual sex may be unhealthy, socially discouraged, illegal, dangerous, detested, irksome, and an equal or greater number of positive adjectives to some people, but it is not inherently "wrong".

"Wrong" is something adverse done "to" a person against their will or without their understanding.

-- LeatherGryphon --
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Old April 1st, 2004, 05:48 PM
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Why are people like Jumpstart even here?

I do believe that there is a message that you must agree to when you first come to this site. Something like:
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Old April 1st, 2004, 08:18 PM
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truisms

This thread was initially about some people's revelations about coming to terms with their predispositions about muscular male physiques -- "coming out" if you will. I'm sorry that it has been corrupted by a discussion about whether this has anything to do with gay sex or not.

I've enjoyed meeting people, both gay and straight, who have had to deal with being bodybuilders or fantasizing about bodybuilding. Everyone has been very nice.

Gay men post here. Straight men post here. That is a truth. Neither can make the other NOT post here. That is another truth.

I am a gay man. My fantasies about muscle involve some aspect of gay sex. They are intertwined. That may not be true for all. No one is forced to read my stories/fantasies and likewise nobody can force me not to post (except flexodus who ends up paying the bills).

While I love star wars, that probably is not appropriate HERE. Likewise, I would hope people are tolerant of others viewpoints regarding male muscle growth, whether gay or straight.

'nuf said,
Scott

btw... I recently became brave enough to create a big muscle profile. yay me!
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Old April 3rd, 2004, 12:09 PM
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Sorry.

I didn't mean to sound like I was heterophobic or anything, however I did want to point out that this forum is people that are not opposed to homosexuality. I don't tolerate any form of hatred, so I didn't want to sound like a breeder-basher myself! Oops!
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Old April 17th, 2005, 05:20 PM
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a little late

i started to respond to this thread then noticed how old it was... oh well... i like it. i've been thinking about all of this a lot since i first put pics up on the forum. i really appreciate all the support... i think all of us that are trying do. i just havent really had trouble outside in... the real world...haha. i mean this is clearly a sanctuary to talk about the things we talk about, but i have shown the pictures to my friends. i just showed the morphed ones to people today. i'll admit some laughed and overall the majority dont really like the idea of me getting that big. they support me nonetheless. they pick on me about it. they know i would love to be huge. they know why. the only issue i've ever had is my mother's worry about supplements and whether i'll get on steroids...haha. i'm not disagreeing with a comparison between coming out of one closet and coming out of the other. i just havent experienced a weird reaction.... just people impressed i'm finally doing something...haha.... and bulking up has for whatever reason gotten me to start doing more in other areas of my life i have ignored.
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Old April 17th, 2005, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberino
i started to respond to this thread then noticed how old it was...
The thread is old but still relevant. Thanks for resurrecting it.
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Old April 18th, 2005, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberino
... and bulking up has for whatever reason gotten me to start doing more in other areas of my life i have ignored.
I have actually continued to be surprised by how a little bit of increased self-confidence and self-esteem has REALLY lent to success in my job and with my family life. I guess I didn't realize just how bad I was until I could look back a little and see the change.

Keep it up - it really does change your life!
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Old April 18th, 2005, 07:19 AM
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I also think this is a good thread to keep alive. I'm glad you've had no problems, I think we are alike in that we are very open about our lives here with our friends. Just remember that other people here can't be so open.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 02:20 AM
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Does being a muscle lover necessarily mean being gay?

And sorry for just dropping these next few questions, but I'm hoping to find some support/insight from the community here (if you're willing).

Do you think that being straight or gay is as clear as black and white? or Do you believe that it is more of a gradient?

For those of you that currently consider yourselves gay, do you wish you were straight? How hard was it to accept being gay?

For those of you that currently consider yourselves straight, do you ever wonder whether or not you are gay? Do you ever have homosexual fantasies?

For those of you that are bi or haven't decided yet, what are your stances? Would deny yourself the action of experimenting with your homosexual side? Do you think you could? (and by experimenting, I mean in reality rather than fantasy.)

For those of you that think you are gay, do you ever have heterosexual fantasies?

For those of you that consider yourselves straight, was it easy or difficult to reconcile admiring muscular men? How did you reconcile?

Finally: How do you deal with the internal battle of muscle loving and sexuality? (if you have one, an internal battle that is.)

Sorry for asking so many questions. I hope you can help.

Thank you.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 10:11 AM
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Hi usr101!

Welcome to the community! Being Straight myself I thought i'd take a stab at this for you. Obviously, these are just my opinions to your questions...


>>> Does being a muscle lover necessarily mean being gay?

No! I'm an example of this. This is has also been covered here before in many threads. The love for muscle is NOT directly related to sexuality. I say directly, since it probably is still linked to sex in some regard for exmaple primal beaf cakes proably got more sex than a thin small guy... (just a thought)

>>>And sorry for just dropping these next few questions, but I'm hoping to find some support/insight from the community here (if you're willing).

This community is very helpful, i'm sure oyu'll find the help and support you require.

>>> Do you think that being straight or gay is as clear as black and white? or Do you believe that it is more of a gradient?

Again, this is another topic or question that has been addressed before here. I think the conclusion from a while back was that NO its not a case of a boolean state of either being gay or not, it is a sliding scale with many shades of grey with extremes at either end.

>>> For those of you that currently consider yourselves gay, do you wish you were straight? How hard was it to accept being gay?

Obviously cant answer this one

>>> For those of you that currently consider yourselves straight, do you ever wonder whether or not you are gay? Do you ever have homosexual fantasies?

Yep! Before finding this site and finding out more about other peoples experiences and thoughts, I thought i must have been gay because i love muscle, although i would NEVER wanna have sex with the guy whom owns it, unless it me.. .haha! In the straight world its generally not a done thing to make comments about how another mans butt looks for instance or how sexy and attractive and handsom they look in fear of being acused of being gay.
As for having homosexual feelings, I guess we all do, straight guys included. What with all those hormones floating around is it any wonder... Also i read somewhere that males are more likely to have fetishes than females, don't know why though, but it appears to be true.

>>> For those of you that are bi or haven't decided yet, what are your stances? Would deny yourself the action of experimenting with your homosexual side? Do you think you could? (and by experimenting, I mean in reality rather than fantasy.)

I'll leave this for someone else to answer...

>>> For those of you that think you are gay, do you ever have heterosexual fantasies?

and this one.

>>> For those of you that consider yourselves straight, was it easy or difficult to reconcile admiring muscular men? How did you reconcile?

Yeah, hard for me to admire other guys publically... basically I would not make any comments about how a guy looked generally, but it depends on the crowd and the enviroment also.

>>> Finally: How do you deal with the internal battle of muscle loving and sexuality? (if you have one, an internal battle that is.)

I don't think i have an internal battle. my release for most my muscle loving fetish is making it a reality for me in the gym. (i'll get there one day)

Hope this helps...

Marc
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Old May 16th, 2005, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usr101
Does being a muscle lover necessarily mean being gay?
That depends a lot on what you mean by lover. My sexual fantasies are deeply tied to my love of hyper-masculine characteristics, including muscles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usr101
Do you think that being straight or gay is as clear as black and white? or Do you believe that it is more of a gradient?
sexuality clearly runs a continuum if you look at it scientifically. social pressures, particularly on men, make it seem like it is either black or white.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usr101
For those of you that currently consider yourselves gay, do you wish you were straight? How hard was it to accept being gay?
coming out is a process. being gay and trying to lead a straight life only leads to unhappiness and causes pain to not only you but others that love you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usr101
For those of you that currently consider yourselves straight, do you ever wonder whether or not you are gay? Do you ever have homosexual fantasies?

For those of you that are bi or haven't decided yet, what are your stances? Would deny yourself the action of experimenting with your homosexual side? Do you think you could? (and by experimenting, I mean in reality rather than fantasy.)
I think you just answered these questions. Rather than worrying about what other people do, or what issues other people have, you need to explore and find your own truths. Assuming that you at times have same-sex fantasies, you should feel free to find your own path. That means experimenting. It is OK to experiment and find out what is right for you. Just remember to be safe. If you need to know about safe sexual practices, look here
Quote:
Originally Posted by usr101
For those of you that think you are gay, do you ever have heterosexual fantasies?
sometimes, but this gets back to the continuum question. sexual orientation and sexual orientation identity are two different things. identify as gay is one thing, what your real orientation is can be something else entirely. (the same is true for identifying as straight or bi)

Quote:
Originally Posted by usr101
For those of you that consider yourselves straight, was it easy or difficult to reconcile admiring muscular men? How did you reconcile?
When I was coming out, I went to a counsellor. He gave me a good piece of advice. don't worry about labels. worry about what gets your dick hard. if admiring muscular mean arouses you sexually, then to be happy, you may need to act on those impulses, if only to decide what label to assign to yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by usr101
Finally: How do you deal with the internal battle of muscle loving and sexuality? (if you have one, an internal battle that is.)
As I said above, in order to lead a full, happy, healthy life, you need to resolve an issues you might have about your sexuality. repressing them, lying about them or trying to be someone else will not make you happy -- it will do just the opposite.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 01:21 PM
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my turn...


Quote:
Does being a muscle lover necessarily mean being gay?
No.

And sorry for just dropping these next few questions, but I'm hoping to find some support/insight from the community here (if you're willing).

Quote:
Do you think that being straight or gay is as clear as black and white? or Do you believe that it is more of a gradient?
No. It's not as clear as "black and white". Sexuality is both dynamic and three dimensional. Static labels placed by society are as backwards as the earth being flat or time being universally linear (yet we all still use clocks).

Quote:
For those of you that currently consider yourselves gay, do you wish you were straight? How hard was it to accept being gay?
I'm bi... and no. I don't wish I was anything but me. I'm happy to be who I am.


Quote:
For those of you that are bi or haven't decided yet, what are your stances? Would deny yourself the action of experimenting with your homosexual side? Do you think you could? (and by experimenting, I mean in reality rather than fantasy.)
I like how you combine "bi" with "haven't decided yet" on this... like it's an in-between stage. It isn't. I find women equally as attractive sexually as I do a hot guy... I don't see that changing any time soon. Yes - I've already experimented and learned VOLUMES about myself. Yes - I used to deny myself that opportunity, pretending to be straight, and I'm sorry I ever wasted so much time doing that.

Quote:
For those of you that think you are gay, do you ever have heterosexual fantasies?
well being Bi I would say that... yes, absolutely. I masturbate fairly equally between imagry associated with women and men.

Quote:
Finally: How do you deal with the internal battle of muscle loving and sexuality? (if you have one, an internal battle that is.)
It took me a long time to learn that being this way is "ok" and not "crazy" or "sick". Once I decided that I was "ok" to feel this way, I was much more comfortable with myself and the internal "battle" was essentially over. How did I deal with it? I didn't.... it hurt me a lot. Experimentation was the best thing I ever did.... safely!


hope that helps!
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Old May 16th, 2005, 05:36 PM
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Gay,here.

I was very lucky in that I never had any guilt about being gay.Wouldn't change if I could.Straight people have very hard lives(that's why they're so cranky)As for the continuum;all narcissism is inherently homosexual(because you're the same sex as yourself)If a man is having sex with a woman,&his principal source of arousal is his own performnce;"I sure am a stud,I'm all man,she wants me so bad,....."he could be said to be having a homosexual experience.As for straight fantasies,I rarely have sexual dreams,but for the LONGEST time,they were only about women(!?!)I do sometimes find women attractive;but I think it would be unfair to pursue it,under the circumstances.
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Old May 16th, 2005, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glammaman2000
all narcissism is inherently homosexual(because you're the same sex as yourself)If a man is having sex with a woman,&his principal source of arousal is his own performnce;"I sure am a stud,I'm all man,she wants me so bad,....."he could be said to be having a homosexual experience.
I think a lot of people delude themselves with this and call themselves bisexual or straight. I've had sex with women, but it was more of a narcistic experience than anything else -- "hey, look at what I can do with this power tool" type thing If I were rated on a Kinsey scale, I'd probably be a kinsey 5 or so. That probably makes my sexual orientation bisexual -- I can get it up for a woman and bring myself and her to orgasm (well, multiple for her). However, my sexual orientation identity is gay.

Sexual orientation identity is a hard concepts to grasp. It's kind alike meeting your first male-to-female transgender lesbian. You want to ask, "but you were a man who liked women and now you're a woman who likes women, so why change? that doesn't make any sense." What you call yourself and what you are are two different things. It doesn't make sense, but it is the way it is.

I have friends -- a gay man and a lesbian who ended up spending a lot of time together (politics breeds strange bedfellows, especially in the city of brotherly love). They are now dating and having sex (multiple times a day which is too much information for me to really know). They were cochairs of a political organization, and it caused a big scandal because, "weren't they now straight?!?" It was in the advocate, local papers and everything. Are they straight? Well, no or maybe or who cares. He calls himself "gayish" or "bisexual" if the media makes him. The point is that the labels caused the scandal and they are now happy now (more or less).

If a person is attracted to people of the same sex, so be it. If they call themselves straight or bi or queer or a feggela, who cares? If a person identifies as gay and falls in love with a woman, does that make him straight? The issue should be personal self-fulfilment and happiness, not what you call yourself.

"Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheeps and goats. Not all things are black nor all things white. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories. Only the human mind invents categories and tries to force facts into separated pigeon-holes. The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects. The sooner we learn this concerning human sexual behavior, the sooner we shall reach a sound understanding of the realities of sex."

* Alfred Kinsey, Sexual Behaviour in the Human Male (1948)

"I'm strictly heterosexual. But bisexuality does double your chances for a date on Saturday night."

* Woody Allen
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Old May 16th, 2005, 11:31 PM
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Thank you for taking the time to share: Marco_ukmus, Corwin, ethernet_jock, and glammaman2000. I really appreciate it, and I find your thoughts to be insightful.

I'm glad that all of you are comfortable with yourselves. I wish I could say the same for myself. I think that I'm honestly not comfortable with myself. I always pretend to be, but I think deep down, I'm really not.

I think I might be in denial about being gay. But, I'm trying my best to be logical and listen to my reason. I think I have symptoms of being gay. But I find it very difficult to accept it.

At this point in my life, I feel that I would rather deny any homosexual side of myself for the rest of my life if I could. I feel like there are two halves of my mind struggling for their desires, leaving me confused.

I think the greatest hindrance to me accepting a homosexual me is that I have a great desire to be accepted. I know that I shouldn't care about what other people think, but, to be honest, I can't help it. I can't pretend that I don't care.

There are only two people that I have mentioned my feelings to, one straight friend and his gay best friend. (So I feel that posting here, to communicate with you guys, is a very big step (even if it is somewhat anonymous). I've never mentioned this to anyone else.) But anyway, after confiding in these two friends, I still don't feel compelled to accept my homosexual side, if I have one. (Notice that even my choice of words reflects my denial.)

I don't even know where I fit on that "sliding scale" of homo/hetero sexuality.

Sigh.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. Thank you for listening to my feelings. It helps to get it out.
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Old May 17th, 2005, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usr101
I think I might be in denial about being gay. But, I'm trying my best to be logical and listen to my reason. I think I have symptoms of being gay. But I find it very difficult to accept it.

At this point in my life, I feel that I would rather deny any homosexual side of myself for the rest of my life if I could. I feel like there are two halves of my mind struggling for their desires, leaving me confused.

I think the greatest hindrance to me accepting a homosexual me is that I have a great desire to be accepted. I know that I shouldn't care about what other people think, but, to be honest, I can't help it. I can't pretend that I don't care.
Talking about it helps. There are no symptoms to being gay -- it is not a disease, it is an aspect of a person's personality. It is about whom a person forms the most intimate, personal and (yes) sexual relationships with. It is about forming lifelong bonds, family and relationships. If you are gay, it is not something you can deny. You will have these attractions all your life. Denying it perpetuates the struggle and the confusion. I think you are beginning to take the first steps toward reconciling your confusion, and I would urge you to continue, no matter what the outcome.

As for acceptance, first you must accept yourself for who you are. How can others be expected to accept you if you cannot accept yourself? It is hard and requires a certain inner strength to be honest with yourself, but living a lie of unhappiness is a lot harder and a lot more punishing. As for the acceptance of others, that means accepting all of you, not part of you. Your sexuality, whatever it may be, is part of you. If they cannot accept that, then they are not really accepting you, no matter what they say.

You have a god-given right to be a whole, healthy person. Other's views, no matter what they are, do not negate the divine in any of us. It may be hard at times, but in the end, it is worth it to be happy.

E-hugs...
Scott
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Old May 17th, 2005, 07:28 AM
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as much as I hate to agree with Corwin about anything - he's right. There are no symptoms, it's not a disease.

And like I said... and he said in different words.... sexuality is dymanic and multi-dimensional. There really isn't such a thing as "gay", "bi", or "straight" because we're ALL somewhere in the mix. I chose to tell people that I'm "bi" because I have sex with my wife on a regular basis and have HAD sexual relations with men in the past and continue to have dreams/desires/fantasies on both sides of the fence. I still don't truly believe that "bi" is a good label.

Thanks for being honest with us!! I hope you can figure these things out soon because life is too short to hate yourself forever.
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Old May 17th, 2005, 08:26 AM
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Kudos to the good advice provided here. I deluded myself for 32 years into thinking I was straight. Like with corwin, sex with a woman was about myself and how I felt. Building muscle was the same. I'm not saying it's the same for you as I do believe there is a continuum. Heck, there are some women who I find very attractive, but nothing compares to what I've found in my partner. After having played for both teams, I can't think of going back to what I was told was "normal". I'm truly happy now and I can't imagine life without my partner. Sex is no longer a selfish event...it's about pleasing each other and caring about each other.
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Old May 17th, 2005, 11:05 AM
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I have a test for gay-ness!!!

Seriously, being straight, bi, gay, or somewhere in between is not about what you tell others, it's about how YOU feel. It's about what you think. I kept trying to tell myself that I liked girls, but I only JO'd to pictures of guys. Denial is a powerful intoxicant. I would tell myself that I looked at those pics because I wanted to look like that, so I could get with women.

So go to where you store magazines, pics, or whatever near your bed (my place is a night-stand, but yours could be under a pillow, or between the matrices, etc.) Now what sort of pics do you look at when you pleasure yourself? What magazines are do you JO to?

Here's a key to deciphering them:
? Victoria's Secrete: Straight
? Muscle & Fitness: Gay
? Hustler: Bi
? Muscle Car Magazine: Confused with an odd fetish.

The first step is to decide in your heart what you are, and what turns you on. The rest of the steps don't really matter. You could decide to you are gay, but then not act on it. You could decide that you are straight, but tell the world you are gay (if you work at a store like mine where it's all about design & most men are openly gay...) My point is that you need to know for you, and the rest of the world only needs to know what you tell them.
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