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Muscle & Mind Motivation, Inspiration and The Mind. What drives you?

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Old November 3rd, 2003, 07:07 PM
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Question A big question for me is... (seeing bigger guys)

Why do when I see a bigger, better built guy do I feel bad (or at least "less good") about myself?

I was just at CVS trying to find a deodorant that doesn't have anti-perspirant in it and trying to score the Matrix Reloaded dvd to rewatch before racing to see Revolutions tomorrow night.

When I got to the check out lines, there were two different guys (not together). I could tell that under the one guy's fleece pullover that he had a nice and big torso, broad shoulders, the fabric stretched over his chest, the sleeves were tight on his arms. Not anything mammoth mind you - but probably 3 levels buffer and more built than me. The other guy was similar. So, I immediately am checking him out - enjoying it partly but mostly feeling something more on the negative side ? not even sure exactly what feeling or feelings it is (I?ll think about it and see if I can describe it better later ? but definitely in the feeling bad about myself category)*

Anyway, it just occured to me that this is a habit of mine and so thought I'd ask here if this is familiar to anyone else?
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Old November 3rd, 2003, 08:34 PM
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Yep, I've felt the same way, QTR....and after years of experience, I can tell you two things:

1) Feeling bad about yourself doesn't make you any bigger -- indeed, it can lead to a "What's the use?" attitude

2) Feeling good about what you've accomplished to this point lets you see the guy as what you can be -- and to enjoy his aesthetic value, then walk up to him and ask for a date! <g>
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Old November 3rd, 2003, 09:23 PM
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I agree with WBHunk's points, but I want to add one of my own. Try to draw inspiration from their body. When I see a guy that looks like that, I try to enjoy the aesthetic value, but mainly I try to figure-out what it is that I like about his body. Which muscles are how big to be what I consider as big? How much bigger do my muscles have to get 'till I am that size? Then, you'll be too preocupied to hate yourself. Also, use that experience to get your ass back to the gym. It doesn't help anyone if you feel helpless, so try to feel motivated instead. If you still feel down, send me a message through my profile on this forum.
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Old November 4th, 2003, 04:23 AM
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I loved this post

Ah... what do we do in this situation?

Love yourself, baby!

Freud would say that your sexual preference is the narcissistic object choice.

Remember, those guys in line probably think they aren't big enough... they wish they were on roids again... they worry that their abs aren't showing through their summer beer fat, and that's why he's wearing the pullover fleece, to hide the gut.

Yeah, it's hard sometimes to be working out and then see hotties who look like they have had it their whole lives.

For me, coming out to the fact that I want muscle and want to be muscular (still a process) is painful like coming out of the closet AGAIN.

I don't think the fact that the guy is bigger is making you upset. I think it's your attitude that needs to change. I wish _I_ could look at big buff guys while shopping ALL the time.

"There is always going to be someone bigger than you."

My trainer who I'm working out with now is HUGE. I never want to be that big, nor compare myself to him. I just want to be me!

Ugh, I can try to put positive affirmations on this site for you, but basically, I know how you feel man. That's all I can say.
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Old November 4th, 2003, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Why do when I see a bigger, better built guy do I feel bad (or at least "less good") about myself?
From my social psychology class, I recall one theory says that people feel something, label it and have a behavior associated with it. You say you see a guy and you feel something. So do I. However, I think wbhunk is right -- don't put bad labels to those feelings, they are self-destructive. Maybe that thing you (and I) feel is desire. Maybe that desire should be used to attain our goals.

The guys on this forum are great! I've met a few of them. When one said, "I'm a bodybuilder," I felt something -- the desire to say the same thing. When I stood next to this guy, he was taller, wider, more muscular -- a he-man build. I have a different structure -- smaller, thinner, but I can use that to my advantage. Any muscle I do put on has the illusion of being bigger.

Another guy told me to eliminate the word "try" from my vocabulary -- don't "try", "do". Words to live by, I think.

In the past month, I've changed my diet. I'm changing my routine to concentrate more on form and feeling the muscle grow. I'm changing my lifestyle to be a bodybuilder's lifestyle. I will never be 300 pounds of muscle, but I can certainly get to 175, then 200 pounds if I work hard enough.

Seeing the guy's in Chelsea or the gym my friend took me to last week made me feel something. I use to call that feeling envy or jealousy -- now, I'm using that feeling as a fuel my growth and live my dream.

$0.02.
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Old November 4th, 2003, 06:41 AM
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Thanks and agreed. That's what I've been thinking is that I should shake the "negative" aspect of the feeling - and then just understand where I want to get to. I'll use the folks around me for inspiration and feel good for them - as opposed to subconsciously kicking myself for not going the same place (i.e., getting big).

And great point, Polodude about the coming out musclegrowth coming out process... whoever started that thread gave me a whole new awareness and path to coming out to myself and i guess eventually others - it's amazing what awareness can do for you - makes you happier without a single thing changing.. plus recognizing subconscious reactions gives yout the choice to change!

Think I'll work on that positive attitude a bit - prior to pushing for any big bodily changes - that way I'll know what I'm going for is about being me. I just don't want to try and get big if I'm doing it for negative reasons (like trying to not feel inferior to others or trying to feel superior to others).

P.S. Btw, i made a mistake in saying I'm seeing Matrix Revolutions tonight - i'm going tomorrow (got one day ahead of myself!)

P.P.S. Corwin, i know its not muscle talk but any recommended shows you saw in new york... i find it funny as a new yorker i'm always behind on the shows (too available I guess :-) )
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Old November 4th, 2003, 07:07 AM
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shows... hmmm, did I mention shows....

We saw Wicked. I liked it. The music was OK, and really liked the final song of the first act "Defy Gravity". Glinda (the gah is silent) was very very funny and reminded me of Reese Witherspoon in _Legally_Blonde_. Elphaba (Idina Menzel) was very very good. The musical differs from the book, and I found the similarities and contrasts interesting.

I've not heard good things about Taboo.

Hairspray is always a must. Wished we had time to see Take Me Out or Golda's Balcony, but we didn't.

A fine fellow recommended the movie "Lost in Translation". It was OK, but I personally felt that it lacked something. I like entertainment that either changes me or that I can internalize. Bill Murray was good, and the story OK, but it didn't have the impact that I like a movie to have. On the other hand _Elephant_ by Gus Van Sant was very very good. I liked the deadpan way the story is told -- no commentaries, just lives and how they are effected.

OK, you asked about shows and I gave you movies.

Scott
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Old November 4th, 2003, 10:49 AM
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The bottom line is: try not to compare yourself to others. It can only make you vain or bitter. The only comparison should be between where you were and where you are; physically, emotionally, intellectually. And remember: none of us see ourselves as others do. I complain about being too fat at the gym, and guys say: "What are you, eight percent?" It's all so subjective, and relative. Celebrate your progress in all areas, and also the progress of others. And remember: appearance is only one small element in who you are.
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Old November 4th, 2003, 01:12 PM
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Your reaction is likely a combination of envy and disappointment with yourself for failing to achieve an idealized body standard. Read the Adonis Complex as it addresses this issue directly. It is quite easy to get discouraged; although weight training is effective, it rarely works quickly unless one resorts to steroids. You simply must remain persistent to achieve your goals. It is also important to have a sense of what is achievable both with and without steroids or you are setting yourself up for both physical failure and emotional disappointment.
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Old November 4th, 2003, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bull
Celebrate your progress in all areas, and also the progress of others.
I like that. When I see someone that looks beter than I do (or better than I think I look) I am very happy, because they prove that my goals are humanly obtainable. I am always happy about other people's sucsesses, because they make me think I can do anything I want to.
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Old November 4th, 2003, 08:59 PM
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That's an awesome way of putting it....be glad for what others have, because that means it can be yours someday. After all, what would we have to shoot for, if everyone was average-sized?

As an aside....wow, we have psychologists, personal trainers, and human resources specialists commenting on this board -- shouldn't we be charging by the hour? <g>
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Old November 5th, 2003, 11:06 AM
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Hey and don't forget guys....its probably been the other way around as well. I'm sure there have been guys that have looked at you and wished they had your size. Keep growing.
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Old November 5th, 2003, 03:24 PM
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Speaking of which, I think it's time we had an update on your progress, Muscle_D! :-)

xoxo

rpj

who continues to progress in a retrograde fashion...
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Old November 6th, 2003, 07:17 PM
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Smile

I just wanted to mention a positive outcome for me from all of the supportive discussion here. I joined two friends, tom and beth, on tuesday night for a few drinks and in the course of our 4 hours of rambling conversation found myself sharing that I was turned on by muscle boys and had been enjoying a site about musclegrowth. It was all shared with the confidence and acceptance I'm feeling more of for myself - shared like I would share other important things in my life - not overly dramatic or obsessive, just really natural. I felt only the fleetingest twinge of self-consciousness !

(Of course a few concoctions from the Therapy Lounge bar helped grease the wheels ;-) )

Other news is that I took a rough measure of my stats this morning, again without a second thought - just so I know where I am right now and so I can decide what I want to aim for. Perhaps to grow even.

I feel like these were great steps - and a big reason for my taking those steps is this site and group! t h x
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Old November 7th, 2003, 09:28 AM
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Thumbs up Looking at "built" guys

Great thread here.

I find that I have had the same "feel bad about myself/inadequate" feelings that QTR describes when I'd see bigger "built" guys. This was true especially BEFORE I started lifing consistently.

I'd read the mags, see guys around and at the gym (on those few occasions when I went) and I'd get down on myself for not being big. I'd also get down on myself for noticing!

Now, I've been lifting really consistently for 8 months. I've started to notice some real changes--my weight is consistently over 201#, my waist is down two inches, and I'm stronger and tighter and bigger all over. My pecs and thighs are starting to come out, my forearms are thicker (talk about a rush--having to get my watchband resized because it was too small for my bigger wrist! Yes!) My goal for now is to get to at least 220#, in shape. I do feel differently, and I can tell that my body moves and feels differently, kind of like a machine that's starting to "break-in" and run smoothly after an initial adjustment period. Things don't hurt, except in a good way. I'm not embarrassed to take off my shirt (getting sorta vain about it, actually, but that's another story! <G>)

The funny thing is, it takes a lot more to impress me these days. Most times I see guys in the stores or wherever, and I think, "Yeah, o.k. you've got some size, but nowhere near what I'd want if I were you." I also am not as impressed by the huge 'roid monsters in the mags as I used to be. I look at them and think--great pecs, but look at that gut! Or great arms, but his face is so red it looks like his blood pressure is through the roof! The next sound you hear is the sound of his liver exploding from all the drugs.....


I don't know why I'm more blase about the pros. On the one hand, I generally like the look of a well built, proportionate guy. On the other hand, the big guts and red faces are like a clock ticking...how long till systemic meltdown? I've concluded that natural is the way to go, even if I never have the huge chest of a Dragna, the thighs of a Platz or the arms of a Mazzarato. The articles posted elsewhere on the Forum about the false expectations created by the media and steroids, about what a natual man "ought" to look like are a great reality check. You've got to work with what you've got, and, I suspect most of us, myself included, have a long ways to go before we approach our max!
Anyway, the stories are inspiring, as are the life stories of you guys!

Keep up the good work!

Mdlftr
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Old November 7th, 2003, 01:39 PM
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Interesting point about it taking more to impress you. I agree. Used to go to the gym years ago and see all kinds of guys that looked good, as in big and built. Now there are are only a very few because the guy looking back at me in the mirror at 268 pounds with a 53 inch chest and 18.5 arms is one of the buffest.

Hows that for an update RPJ
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Old November 7th, 2003, 05:49 PM
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Theres this guy at starbucks that I go to I just love checking out the veins on his arms when he is ringing up my order on the cash register.
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Old November 7th, 2003, 07:19 PM
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A great update, Muscle_D. Now post some more pix! :-)

xoxo

richard
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Old November 18th, 2003, 09:12 AM
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derek anthony

check out my site www.derekanthony.com im big and 22 years old !!! hope you like
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Old November 18th, 2003, 05:34 PM
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Hmm...I may be repeating something someone else has said, but I don't have the time to read EVERY reply to this thread (sorry! i'm a slow reader!) but I thought I needed to say this:
It's not at all surprising that y'all would feel as you do when you see bigger, stronger, more defined, whatever, people than yourselves. If you look at the very nature of this "fetish," if you so wish to call it, you can find at the root a sense of impotence and inadequacy--fulfillably only through these dreams of growing huge and muscular, of wooping the bully's ass (or ramming it, your choice), of tearing a building apart, of bestial sex (in which one is cut free from social taboos and stigmas and accepted by the other person and jointly make mad, passionate love). I mean, if you look at the very root of all this, there is a sense of insecurity.
This insecurity is only addressable via massive, gargantuan growth to an insanely powerful status. Thus, you can crush whatever gets in your way, whatever makes fun of you or belittles you (hehe, get it?). Thus, you see a guy whose BIGGER and STRONGER than you and your very insecurities, insecurely addressed by the fantasies, are reinvigorated: there is someone better than you, more muscular than you, more successful at what you're trying to accomplish.
Argh, I hope I worded all of that write, but basically the very source of these fantasies causes you to feel inferior and whatever else you feel.
ok, I've tried to say what I needed to say, sorry if i'm repeating anyone or confusing others with my strange logics,
{sexi scriptor}
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Old November 18th, 2003, 07:56 PM
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Thanks for posting the link, Derek. I hope you'll take part in the conversation. I'm sure I'm not the only fan of yours in the group.

Best regards...

Richard Jasper
Ann Arbor, MI
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Old November 18th, 2003, 08:57 PM
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gay big muscle

do any of you smaller (ie non-bodybuilders who just do weight training and are athletic) guys ever get nervous wanting to hit on big muscle guys? i find it so intimidating to talk to big muscle guys. the more muscley they are, the more "straight" they act--unless they are gross roided muscle queens in chelsea, who are gross. the really hottest guy in my gym is a boxer with a killer build and i could never even look him in the eye.

i was at "the cock" on sunday night, a bar in nyc where there is a dark back room where guys grope and suck each other off. i went back there with a drink and found myself holding a muscle dude from behind--a total fantasy come true. i'm not even a top, but imagining myself fucking him and entering into his skin and becoming his muscular body, joining with him, i was really turned on and wanted to fuck. then he acted all bitchy, not just with me but in general, like he was so buff and hard (and roided) and the boys around him were not as big, and didn't have the muscle mass, and he sort of had this "fuck off" look on his face that was very snotty and haughty. and all of a sudden i wasn't so attracted to him any more.

where can i find a big (but not lumbering) hot (and also limber) muscle guy who wants a lean/musc but smaller guy to be his bf? or do i have to succumb to the whole MUSCLE FASCISM thing and keep bulking til I end up doing roids and chasing the whole impossible body thing??

what is the healthy way to do this, work out, feel good, and get hot sex with muscle guys, what is the right attitude to take, how do you catch them, where to find them, and how do i have to look, does any of this shit matter?

frustrated.....
PD
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Old November 18th, 2003, 11:31 PM
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Good luck, Polodude. I've never succeeded in finding one. I've played a couple of times with some biggish boys but it was pretty dreadful sex.

For guys just my size (5'10, 215-230 lbs., big pecs, shoulders, legs) it seemed like I needed to be quite a bit bigger, or quite a bit harder. For guys who were bigger, it seemed like I need to be quite a bit bigger -- or a lot smaller.

For almost all of them, I needed to be quite a bit butcher. I'm not straight acting, don't have any interest in being straight acting, and don't work at trying to eliminate my identifiably gay (Southern Urban Educated Fag, to be precise) accent.

And, to top it all off, I'm not into role playing (the whole yessir, nosir, ooh, daddy! thing gives me the gigles) AND I'm not anyone's fantasy top or fantasy bottom.

You can turn yourself into what you crave and then you *might* find what you're looking for.

At some point along the way you have to figure out what's more important. Spending your life with someone who connects with you and vice versa emotionally, spiritually, intellectually. Or endlessly pursuing guys who have the body you want (and none of the other points of connection.)

Good luck with it.

xoxo

richard
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Old November 18th, 2003, 11:39 PM
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I posted this as a reply to one of QuoteTheRaven's great stories on another thread on the board, but I'm reposting it here since it's related to some of the things Polodude mentioned in his post...

"Becoming a hot muscular, and cocky stud is insanely hot to me on a sexual level, but emotionally it reminds me too much of how this story is also an account of a huge cycle (no pun intended) I see in the gay community itself.

Little guy gets traumatized, rejected, or treated badly for not living up to a certain ideal... guy embarks on a transformation... ends up being the massive stud he always wanted to be and then BEGINS the whole cycle over again by treating everybody else as inferiors just because THEY now no longer meet HIS newly elevated ideals.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen people transform their bodies AND their minds for the better, but all too often it's only the inflated egos I see that some of the self-professed "god among gays" use to dilineate themselves socially from the rest of the "riff raff"... And more often than not, it spurns the birth of more rejected guys who want to get big with a vengeance... "I'll show THEM!"

But with being gay -- especially being into muscle -- it's hard sometimes to shelve away our sexual response to guys who may look like everything we desire physically, but who are otherwise emotionally or intellectually lacking (ie. a vapid, stuck-up bitch).

There is no denying the power of physical attraction and prowess, not only in gay culture, but in human nature as a whole... and because so many of us get so quickly swept up in the physical, we sometimes overlook or undervalue the emotional or intellectual qualities that would probably end up being more lasting and satisfying for us in the long run. It's this incongruous system of values that allows some of the hotties in the world to get away with treating others (read: less-than-adonis-like folk) like human trash, yet still be able to enjoy celebrity-like status in the gay community.

I'm far from where I want to be physically, but I'd want my physical development to be on par with my own personal growth. And I know I'd be one of the seemingly few who will always remember what it was like to be on the flip side... and though I'd never want to be part of that vicious cycle of negative and divisive attitudes, I know many of us -- myself included -- were galvanized into action partly because of it. Though bodybuilding by definition isn't necessarily a purely altruistic endeavor, the ones who have succeeded and who stand out are the ones (like many on here) who have taken an approach of personal betterment over seeking mere social vengeance."
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Old November 19th, 2003, 12:00 AM
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Oh wow ? a couple of posts already while I was tooling away in word prepping my response! I haven?t had the empirical experience that you have had, Arpeejay, so I really appreciated your sharing your experiences/observations and completely agree with your sentiment. Also agree with you, Flexodus, and thought these observations captured something very, very true. Anyway? here?s what I came up with ;-)

Hey polodude - that is such a great post. I really appreciate when people share what is really going on with them on this site. And your wonderings are so excellent (as is your graphic illustrating frustration ;-) )

I?m actually in an awesome relationship that doesn?t happen to be about muscle at all. So in that regard I?m not in your boat, however, I guess I can relate because I would like to have a well-adjusted muscle stud friend or two (I agree with not lumbering, but instead limber (and bulging). I also like lithe ;-)). Like you, I don?t know how I?d get those friends. I think my best option is to just keep (or more honestly I should say ?start?) talking to all the big and hot ones I see ? eventually one will be a real quality guy to match his brawn. Of course it will be hard enough to overcome shyness when I don?t have anything at stake other than friendships I don?t really need anyway. I can imagine that it could feel very tough if you are interested in a BoyF!

I?ll tell you why I?m encouraged that it is possible. It?s funny at my gym there are so many nice looking people ? meaning people who look like good, nice people (men, women, hot, not-hot, young, old, cut, flabby) ? but do you think I know if they are actually nice!?? No idea because NOBODY talks to EACH other! Everyone walks around as though they just didn?t happen to see anyone else ? ?I?m not saying hello to you. I don?t see you.? I go in the morning (wonder if I?ll be going tomorrow now that I am up so late;-) ) ? there are probably 30 or 40 people. There are easily a dozen that I see ALL the time and I never say squat to any of them. But as you say I especially say squat to the most buff and physically attractive of them. It?s ludicrous.

One cute guy was missing for a few weeks. And then I passed him on the street and it looked like he had probably been sick ? but you think I said anything nice or acknowledged I recognized him?? Nope! Too busy acting like I was too cool to notice. Stupefying!

So, you know what my theory is? My theory is that 95% of the people at the gym in the morning would love a friendly hello! And my other theory is that that includes the 26 year old who does have the frickin? biggest buff body and wears a modest t-shirt and looks like an upright character (and I?m guessing straight ? but tough to tell when everyone is so carefully not giving anything away).

So, I WILL start being friendly and actually seeing people, and acknowledging that I am seeing them? Although I am definitely gonna avoid overdoing it and becoming Julie McCoy ;-) I think people will appreciate a friendly hello but maybe not a ?let?s all be a big happy family? LOL.

So, Polodude, I think you should just start sharing friendliness and warmth with any big, hot, non-lumbering, limber BBs who you happen to meet. Give them a compliment ? if they do end up acting arrogant or pissed off at least they got a compliment and you are spared being with a jerk. One of them will be friendly and be open to friendship, then maybe relationship ? this is the one for you! But I honestly believe that you should also be friendly and open to the non-bodybuilders. Your life partner might come in a package you don?t expect ? so share your warmth and friendliness with a lot of people and don?t cut off the possibility that the warmth you put out there surprises you by connecting with someone you didn?t expect.
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Old November 19th, 2003, 12:02 AM
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P.S. I love that you sprinkle those hottie-hot morphs all around!! They're like little presents! Thanks for adding some to And Scott Grew Huge! Your morph for Scott was a turn on all on its own!!
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Old November 19th, 2003, 02:42 PM
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Polodude's post "big muscle" /Quoth the Raven

HEy Guys, re: these two post:
Polodude
where can i find a big (but not lumbering) hot (and also limber) muscle guy who wants a lean/musc but smaller guy to be his bf? o
QTR
So, you know what my theory is? My theory is that 95% of the people at the gym in the morning would love a friendly hello! And my other theory is that that includes the 26 year old who does have the frickin? biggest buff body and wears a modest t-shirt and looks like an upright character (and I?m guessing straight ? but tough to tell when everyone is so carefully not giving anything away).

This is a universal issue, for gay and straight guys! I'm straight, and I like working out, and I feel intimidated by 90% of the people in the gym. It's hard to make friends, let alone friends in the gym. I finally got the nerve to say hello to the one guy in the gym in the morning who was half way built (he's surly to everyone, and most people avoid him, but I thought, to h---- with that, I'm not gonna be ignored, especially when we see each other every morning) ANyway, I went over and said hello, we introduced each other, and had a pleasant chat about lifiting.

Course, it's different if you're looking for someone to date. I find that the girls who think they're hot and act all snotty are just as much of a turn off as anything. Personality does count for a lot.


As far as meeting someone who's in good shape....short of moving to CA, it's pretty few and far between!. Good luck! Just know that many of us have these same issues--in different permutations!

<Mdlftr
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Old November 19th, 2003, 05:12 PM
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Good way of putting it, Mdlftr.

Polodude, as a very wise friend put it to me once, never go looking for guys (and I suppose this works for girls as well) in places of which you aren't particularly fond yourself. Instead, go to places of which you are fond and wait for them to find you. Believe me, the gym is not the only place to find muscular, good-looking guys -- oddly enough, I've seen them in virtually every club, event, or venue I've ever voluntarily joined or visited. What made it even better was, not only were they good-looking and nicely built, we actually had something in common to talk about.

In short, follow your own interests outside the gym, be they art shows, shopping, whatever -- and you'll be amazed at what you might find.
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Old November 20th, 2003, 03:23 AM
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QuoteTheRaven -

That was some of the most insightful, real and tangible advice I'd heard in a long time.


I think when we avoid certain people -- whether out of fear or intimidation (or even intense attraction!) -- we really do a disservice to ourselves (and others) because we end up missing out on so many opportunities. What becomes even more problematic is when we begin to make assumptions about these people who we've never even met or came in contact with. "Oh, he's probably an ass... oh, he's probably all stuck up on himself... oh, i'm probably too skinny/fat/small/whatever for him..." and so on and so forth. I can't tell you how many times I found myself in that type of mental trap. And that sort of mindset does absolutely no good; if anything, it has the potential to make things worse because it solidifies this "wall" between yourself and other people. And in the end, you?ll be plagued with nothing but "What-If's"...

You WILL have bad experiences. You WILL come across assholes. It's happened to me more times than I'd like to recall. And yeah, a few of these experiences left me pretty jaded. But I?ve realized that it's just not worth it to let these few experiences and especially the carelessness of assholes to have a lasting affect on me, to skew MY view on the world or to taint my desires in going after the sort of friendships and relationships that I truly want and am deserving of.

No one has control over the shit that will happen in our lives. But what we DO have control over -- and with absolute certainty -- is how we react to these situations. Do we learn, grow, evolve and move forward (and upward) -- or do we stagnate, slink away and hide (or die inside)? Failure is a given if no risks are taken. For a time, it was easy for me to take the easy way out and to keep to myself -- to take few chances -- it seemed to be a comfortable state to be in because it virtually eliminated any possibility of stress or the pain of rejection; and for a while, I felt ?safe.? But then I started thinking: is this path of action (or in my case inaction) ever going to lead me to where I want to be in life? Hell no! I think that in order to truly grow -- physically and emotionally -- is to get accustomed to taking these ?risks? -- putting yourself out there, making connections, taking advantage of worthy opportunities while also letting the bad ones slide off your back as if they never even existed in the first place. I?m surrounding myself with people who inspire me and who embody what I?d eventually like to become -- and I?m not only talking huge, hot and muscular :-)! Pretty soon these ?risks? become second-nature to you and eventually cease to seem like any type of risk at all because you start realizing that this newfound assertiveness has now become a part of who you are. You?ve grown. You forced yourself out there and built up the courage to take more emotional chances; Not only do you get closer to what you want, but you find your mind, confidence and resolve continue to grow ever stronger. And just like the glorious pain and strain of the weights on your muscles: they may tear you down temporarily, but you know you?re gonna come back -- this time even bigger and stronger.

These are my beliefs. I'm living life on my own terms now. No longer do I stand idly by while life and opportunities pass me by, only to leave impressions of regret and haunting speculations of what ?could have been?. It?s not about that anymore. It?s now about ?what WILL BE?.

We all have infinitely more potential and power than we realize or give ourselves credit for. Growth -- evolution -- in mind AND muscle are precipitated at its core by will, determination, and belief in yourself... And no one can ever take that from you.

- fleXodus

--
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My pics
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Old November 20th, 2003, 05:42 AM
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great advice

thanks!
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Old November 20th, 2003, 07:14 AM
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just find a man and train him.

You need a good person first. Someone you really like, and can love for many years. Then you make him go to the gym, and build the body You deserve. All men need some training & polishing.
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Old November 20th, 2003, 09:33 PM
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and when i am done training him...

...he will look something like this:
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Old November 20th, 2003, 09:42 PM
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Thumbs up

Nice.
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Old November 21st, 2003, 02:38 PM
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First off cheers to Flexodus. That is one of the most insightful and hopeful posts I have ever read. The world would be a much better place if we all tried to live our lives as positive as possible. We must try to avoid negative people. The only way they feel better is if your miserable. It's your life. It's what you make it. So make it a good one!

I would also like to say that if your reading this and always wanted muscles, get into a gym NOW!!! The sooner you start, the sooner you will see progress. I started out late myself and regret not starting sooner. Don't let the gym scare you. Just walk in and sign up. Your paying to be there, you have every right to be there as much as the big muscle guys. Most people in the gym are so into their own workout that they barely notice other people anyway. So as Nike says, JUST DO IT!! I've been working out for almost 8 years now and have never been bothered in the gym and I was terrorifed when I started and at 5'9" and 125lbs I was pretty much a rail. But I did it, and it was the best thing I've ever done. Today I'm not huge, around 170lbs but I'm more confident, can wear nice, clothes that show off a little bit of muscle, feel good about myself and dating some pretty hot guys, in my opinion. And it's only going to get better as I continue to improve and grow. 200lbs in 2004!!!!


As for Brent's comments:
>You need a good person first. Someone you really like, and can >love for many years. Then you make him go to the gym, and >build the body You deserve. All men need some training & polishing.

I think you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. If someone has not picked up a weight by the time I have met them, it's likely that they never will. And they may make an effort if I'm going, but I think to make any real progress you have to have an inner desire for working out. I know many people that are into muscle and have never stepped into a gym and probably never will. Hoping that you can change someone after you meet them is, in my humble opinion, setting yourself up for a fall.
And part of the attraction to someone is a healthy body. I don't need to be with someone that is Jay Cutler sized of course but I don't think I would be physically attracted to someone that does not workout. Maybe that's being shallow, but I can't change what I'm attracted to. The other part of the attraction is the desire to grow and improve yourself, both physically and mentally.
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Old November 21st, 2003, 07:05 PM
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Flexodus is on the money!

GREAT Post.
Intelligent and well said.
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Old November 21st, 2003, 07:27 PM
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Sorry

When I wrote my earlier post, I was in a bit of a sarcastic mood. I mostly wanted to play the Devil's advocate. Sometimes, you can get a horse to drink when you lead him to water, but not always... very true.
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Old November 22nd, 2003, 06:08 AM
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muscle

I had a chat online with a muscle guy who gave me similar advice to what all you guys have been saying--hang out where the muscle guys are and be yourself. Also, never assume that someone won't be attracted to you because you're not as big.

He also said that in general, bigger guys want to have sex with bigger guys--it's why they put the time and energy into the gym (along with reasons like health, vigor)... And he pointed out that most muscle guys are bottoms.

What this discussion and forum has shown me--through the creativity and expression of the fantasies in the stories (some of them based on fucked-up values or fears we are trying to work out--some of them on pure desire for muscle) is that it's possible to have a healthy interest in muscle and gay muscle sex, and to interact in a healthy way with other guys, and not get down on yourself or feel like a freak or an obsessive nut in the gym.

It's largely because of this forum that I was able to get back in the gym yesterday for my 4th day this week even though I felt like not going. I was tired. Now my shoulders are sore from a great shoulder workout and I know that I ate good protein and that I'm going to see results as I do more workouts week after week, month after month. So the temporary "down" feeling has passed, and in the meantime, regardless of mood or weather, I did my work.

Regardless of how anxious or insecure I might feel about myself and my body, this forum is always supportive, so thank you guys. I always leave here more focused on the two changes I CAN make in my life: 1) working out/eating/resting better, for physical improvement and 2) (and more importantly I think) changing my attitude and staying focused and positive.

I guess that's why this is called the Evolution forum...we're evolving into better people...with huge muscles!!!!!
-p.d.
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Old November 23rd, 2003, 07:01 PM
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Perfect, polo....or, as the Bard put it more eloquently....

"There ... my blessing with thee!
And these few precepts in thy memory
Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg?d comrade. Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel but, being in,
Bear't that th' opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgement.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man;
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are of a most select and generous chief in that.
Neither a borrower, nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell; my blessing season this in thee!"

--Hamlet, William Shakespeare
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Old December 7th, 2003, 02:30 PM
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I read polodude's and arpejay's posts in this thread with interest. Yes, I'm amazed myself at this cycle that seems to happen with Gay men -- bulking up and turning your nose up at anything that's not as muscular as they are.

I was always a fat little kid -- when I was in college, at 5'6", my weight got up to 250 lbs and I was wearing size 42 pants. I knew I wasn't happy with myself, but didn't really know anything about changing things or that change could be possible.

By chance, I got put with a roommate who was a real jock -- he stood about my height, but had the most perfect compact little body you can imagine. He was naturally gifted and took care of himself. He was even a state-level wrestling champ in high school.

To make a long story short, we became good friends and through his encouragement, I was able to step into a gym for the first time. I learned how to eat reasonably and started a more healthy lifestyle. Oh, and he was straight and very supportive when I finally came out.

By the time I graduated college, I was down to about 155. I wasn't bulked up, but was in pretty decent shape.

For me, the interesting thing that happened was that I started feeling a lot of professional pressure -- when I got into the working world, I really pushed myself and it's been like that for the past ten years. I drifted away from the gym and started going back, but it's a lot tougher now (I'm almost 40.)

I guess I've been looking for the same kind of friendship I had with this guy in college -- he helped me feel good about myself and taught me a little about working out. I helped him with his studies -- believe me, there are several classes he wouldn't have passed if it weren't for me.

I'm at a point now where I'm not so hyper about working and getting ahead. I want to focus more on me and attaining goals at the gym.

My perfect fantasy man would be someone who could learn from me and I could learn from him, someone that can see the little musclestud inside me, waiting to come out. At the same time, I could teach them a thing or two.

I'm committed to making some changes in my life and sculpting the body I want to have. It would be a heck of a lot easier if there was the emotional support there.

Seems all the guys I run into aren't interested in the gym at all and are really attracted to me or are serious about the gym and don't give me a second look.

It's a little ironic that the only guy that's ever really been supportive of me and that I feel like I could really share with was straight.

Crazy world we live in, guys.
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Old December 7th, 2003, 06:06 PM
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reply!

I think it totally makes sense that the only person who "gets" your issue is your straight friend. After all, he has no stake in it, and you don't have any sexual tension with him (not any effective sex tension anyway), so there is nothing to lose.

Guys, I have to say, working out with a trainer as an alternative to seeking out and taking roids is the best thing I've done in a long time! I am seeing results and it feels good. Now, instead of worrying what I look like, I am seeing that I am becoming the dude that I wish would pay attention to me--a jock in the gym. I have even started wearing baseball caps on backwards again.

At the same time, I seem to just be dating skinny boys. It's like I want them to appreciate my muscle--but then I feel kind of disappointed that they don't have anything for me to hold on to. Meantime, the relaly buff gym guys still seem unapproachable. I assume every buff guy in my gym is totally straight so I don't dare talk to them....

For the "Wicked" folks---just saw it tonight--I agree--it's like "Legally Blonde" meets "Harry Potter."

Keep working out ya'll!!!!
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