workout machine question

[hhhnookie2]

i'm a member of several muscle-related sites between ezboard.com and yahoogroups, but i don't really feel like i have anywhere to ask this, so i'm gonna ask here cause i feel more comfortable here.

i'm a guy in my late teens who barely works out, i've got an average bod and the only way i'm gonna look good is with a bit of muscle. so i'm gonna start training seriously. who knows, maybe i'll enter a contest someday.

my situation is this. i'd like to train at home when i can, because i'm pretty busy and it's convenient. now i (along with most every american) have seen all sorts of workout machines on tv. bowflex, weider, abslide, it's all out there.

now obviously they can't all work, or gyms would be in trouble. my question is which ones work? which ones don't? which is the best? any information at all.

if you wanna answer the same question for supplements, be my guest. recommendations are appriciated.

[wrestlejock646]

Hey man, congrats on deciding to get in shape and build some muscle. I"m sure that some of the machines you mentioned will work, but considering where you're describing your current workout level you might consider a different alternative.

There's nothing better for building a base and getting into working out than some basice exercises like pull-ups, push-ups and other calisthenic type movements. Almost everything you do with a fairly expensive piece of home gym equipment that takes up a large amount of space can be somehow duplicated just as well and far less expensively. Its not the machine but how you decide to use it. Before you spend upwards of a thousand dollars on a Bowflex, Soloflex or some other piece of equipment, why not go out and buy a pull up bar that bolts securely to a door frame, a physioball and a workout mat for doing some core exercises (abs, lower back, glutes, as well as almost any other muscle group) and a good new or used set of olympic weights and a good workout bench. Weights can be bought used in almost every community swap sheet or Sunday newspaper for somewhere around 35 to 50 cents per pound. All they might need to make them look new is a can of Rustoleum. For a couple hundred dollars, you have more equipment than you'll need to get started and with some books or a knowledgeable training partner or some sort of instruction to get you started you can do just about anything to get yourself ready to eventually enter that first bb show you mentioned.

Pull-ups with bodyweight and then eventually with supplemental weight hanging from a weight belt is unbeatable for developing a strong and strong looking back. Pushups done conventionally, then with feet elevated on a bench or chair is great for building the chest, shoulders and triceps of a new trainer. The list goes on, but you get the picture. Most big, expensive workout machines end up being very expensive clothess hangers, so before you spend the money....

Same thing with food and supplements. Most of your nutritional needs can and should come from well-balanced food sources. If you're eating a good diet with healthy sources of protein and low on refined carbohydrates and low amounts of saturated fats and trans fats, you'll see gains provided that you're taking enough calories to make sure your weight is increasing. Skim milk, egg whites, tuna, beef, chicken, turkey and yogurt are all good sources of protein. Brown rice, unrefined bread and whole wheat pastas are good sources of complex carbs to maintain the energy needs of a growing body, including the brain. Unsaturated and monosaturated sources of fat such as nuts, olive oil, peanut butter, etc. are good choices too. If you're already eating a good diet in the quantities you need to gain weight (muscle) but find you're just not gaining weight, you then might consider a good source of supplemental protein or a weight gain meal supplement powder or liquid.

Mostly, read all you can on nutrition and training for athletes as there are several books found in any major book store that will get you started. If it's within your means to hire a trainer once you have the equipment in place, most would come to your home for a reasonable price to teach you some exercises, good form, safety practices and go over your workout program to help you get the best results.

Hope that helps, but if you have more questions please post them and I'm sure lots of people on here will have their opinions as well. Best of luck!

[brent]

I agree with wrestlejock646, you can do well at first with basic movements. Most home systems are trash. I have a Bowflex, and it's crap ($1000 worth of crap). I had friends with Solofexes, and they turned to crap after the rubber bands broke. Nordicflex is a horible machine, that you can't get very heavy. There is NO substitute for free weights! I am sorry to tell you this, especially when both Bowflex & Soloflex are based out of P-Town's suburbs, and they hire lots of people. However, I will not advocate wasting money on inferior products. Just like the fact that Intel has hired lots of my friends and I still advocate buying a Mac, because there is no substitute. Stick to basic exercises, eat right, and don't fall for a miracle machine. I'd advise getting a gym membership, but it sounds like you don't have the time. Remember you will have to make the time with a home machine as well.

[hecad84]

hhhnookie2 - first off, congratulations on making the decision to improve yourself, and I sincerely wish you well! I have no experience with the various home machines, but as for your question about suppliments, that question was recently tackled here. Go to the Diet & Nutrition part of this website, and look for a thread called Suppliment Question.

Brent - I had been thinking of a Bowflex, and in fact, only the cost is what has prevented me from having one by now. So, I'm just curious, why is it a crap machine?

[wbhunk]

Hecad:

Personally, as one who did some of the original testing of the Bowflex when Schwinn was preparing to bring it out, I don't necessarily think it's a crap machine -- but you have to be very realistic about for what it is good. It's a good machine for people who want to tone and work their muscles to an athletic-type physique, and it beats several other types of resistance training machines -- but those guys they show in the ads didn't use the Bowflex exclusively to get to their state. <g>

I don't know what prices are like in your area, but for a home gym, free weights and a good weight bench are the same price as or less than a Bowflex here in Dallas -- and the exercise flexibility is so much greater. You may have trouble doing some of the more exotic isolation exercises with which the machines bless us, but you can definitely hit the core exercises.

[brent]

Hecad,
My Bowflex has had lots of problems (the seat has fallen apart, the handles have split, and lots of little problems). The Bowflex feels cheap, you can't get a lot of weight, it takes a while to change exercizes, and has very little range of motion. I like that it's light & compact, but other machines can do that less expensively. I think free weights are irreplaceable.

I've noticed that most home equipment I've seen and used has not been designed for heavy usage. It's usually thin tubular steel (or gads, even aluminum!), where solid steel should be used. The stress on the seats, handles, legs, pulley pivots, etc. is just too much to hold up under serious usage. Pins are used where bearings should be used,The machines look wonderful and behave well just as long as you don't use them. Kinda' defeats the purpose except to impress your friends with your money (that you used to have) instead of your new body (which you still don't have).

If you spend the extra money to get a quality piece of equipment, like you'd find in a gym, it will be correspondingly expensive. Might as well go to a gym where you get access to all that good stuff at a real bargain price. I agree, the guys on the Boflex commercial did not use Boflex only to get the bodies they have.

And the final kicker is. You have to make the commitment to yourself first. Shaping your body is a life changing decision. It doesn't work doing it half-time. Don't worry about becoming a muscle bound freak by working out too much. It ain't a gonn'a happen! Regular exercise with simple equipment (pull up bars, running, push ups, dumbells, springs, etc. will be easier, faster, and MUCH less expensive.

It's the commitment. No equipment can give you that. Save your money.

-- LeatherGryphon --

[hhhnookie2]

I thought in my mind that I responded in thanks, but looking back, I guess I only did it in my head. lol, it happens that way sometimes.

I wanna thank everyone who commented, brought up some very good points (especially the one about who the guys in the commercial didn't get that way using those machines, which it would appear like "if you want to look like this, buy our product" which sadly is the way it is with most products.)

I do wanna say that I'm glad i won't become some muscular freak cause to be honest, I don't want to be any bigger than joe pride (for those not familiar, i'm gonna include a link and a picture at the bottom) cause to be honest I'm not that tall a person, I'm only 5'6" i wanna look good but not huge. I save being huge for my personal fantasies .

I'm ready to make the committment. Part of it, is being small and wanting to look better but it's also, I don't remeber if I said this before, but I'm in college, and puberty in high school was nothing for me cause I was the same height and same weight ever since I was 14-ish. Eh, so in a way I feel cheated, and I'd like something (other than my dick.. which --thanks to the anonymity that only the internet can provide-- is above average at 6") about me to be big, or impressive. But the real point of this is yea, I'm committed to this, it's something I really want, and who knows, you might see me on a billboard someday as an underwear model. Lol...


thanks again,
hhhnookie2

ps: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/joepriderocks/ and if you still wanna respond with suggestions in the matter, go for it. this by no means means i'm done talking about homeworkouts. and thanks to the guy who said his bowflex fell apart... freeweights can't fall apart, so I know which one I'll be sticking with.

Good attitude.

One thing though, about free weights not falling apart? Well, they won't rust away for a long time however make sure that they don't fall apart while you're using them.

I saw a gung-ho young kid in the gym tear his pec while doing bench presses without collars. A quick lesson in physics. Just a little tip to one side and slip, flip, tear, scream all in about 2 seconds. The weights slipped off one end, the other end immediatly fell and flipped the empty end in the air, as the heavy end fell it ripped his pec.

I know a LOT of people don't use the collars. Perhaps experienced people can get away with it, but it's still dangerous expecially for the inexperienced. There ain't nothin' macho about tearing your pec in an avoidable accident. The collars are there for a purpose.

-- LeatherGryphon --

[wbhunk]

Thanks for the reminder, LG....it always boggles the mind how people don't take the time to be safe when they're lifting. Those belts, straps, and bar collars are there for a reason....use 'em!

One MORE thing that I will bring up about safety in the gym, though...and this is just me on my soapbox....is, to paraphrase a great line from Top Gun, "Don't let your ego write checks your body can't cash." I know it bugs me every now and again when I see a guy lift a weight I can't (at least, not with good, safe form)...it's like it's taunting your manhood or something.....but I can tell you from hard experience that overwork and too much weight ain't a good thing.

Perhaps this discussion deserves another thread of it own, but as long as we're talking about safety. I've seen my share of unnecessary accidents.

I watched three young guys come in together. One buff, but the other two were wann'a be's. The buff guy demonstrated some seated dumbell presses to them and left the two newbies alone while he went on to his next exercise.

The two newbies had just enough information to be dangerous. I was right next to them and watched as they struggled with too much weight using extremely poor form and were obviously trying to outdo each other. Thinking that I could help a bit I finally said "that's probably too much weight, go down the rack a bit and slow down the lift a bit and you'll get more out of it." WRONG! "They'd done this before" they said with some finality. Rebuffed, I sat for a while watching but finally turned to my own sets. As I was watching my set in the mirror I noticed one of the guys trying to press a pair of 80 pound dumbells. Hey, I was in good shape and 50 or 60 pound dumbells were a load for me to handle safely. These guys were soft in body and brain.

I started putting my weights down to go spot for him just in case he couldn't handle it. Too late I saw his left arm lock out, then just start falling outward in a very unnatural movement as his shoulder came out of it's socket. The 80# weight crashed to the mat from a height of about 4 1/2 feet right next to my foot.

When his fingers slipped from the falling weight, the other dumbell jerked him to the right and it crashed down on the other side of the bench. His arm popped back into the socket but that was the end of their workout that night. I never saw them come back again.

I have a saying: Stay in control of the weights! This is a battle with gravity but gravity will always win. Learn to be a graceful loser.

-- LeatherGryphon --

[hhhnookie2]

Here's an update on this thread, which I wrote in response to a private message I got. I thought you all might like to read it.
__________________



Hi there....

I have to commend you on your progress --I've seen your pictures before-- you've really done well in bodybuilding, good luck this summer in competitions. You definitly are, like your name says, eager. I wish I had your motivation sometimes, it would definitly come in handy.

At first I was a little too confused about your private message, but then it hit me that months ago I posted a message here about those "gym machines" you see on TV. You're absolutely right. The most important thing to remember is that those people who are in the commercial didn't acheive their muscled look by using those machines. It's a clever trick that the advertiser uses, and I'm ashamed to admit I fall for it.

Thankfully, though, I have never bought one of those. Right now, I'm tempted by the "6 second ab" machine, but chances are, I won't buy it. Back in January, too, I got a membership to a gym here in town. I wish I was showing results, but I'm not. I really don't know what I'm doing.

I honestly wish that I could acheive Joe Pride's size. I really don't think he's that freaky, but on a guy like me (I'm 5'6") it would look just right.

Anyway, I thought I'd let you know what was up.

(cross-posted to the thread)

Eager Muscle wrote on 04-19-2004 03:11 AM:
Joe Pride did NOT build his body with a Soloflex.

Joe Pride IS by the definition of most people a muscle freak.

You're referring to a bodybuilder who built himself up with hardcore weight training sessions.

Become Joe Pride! Get free weights and do lots of the prescribed chins, etc. if travelling to a gym is too hard, but otherwise, by all means, join a gym! There's always a gym you can join somewhere for $300 per year, and $1 per day is not a lot to spend on your body to achieve your dreams. The eye candy and possibilities at a gym will motivate you in a way than training at home could.

Check my threads, look what working out at a hardcore Golds did for ME in just a few months!

[ottomun6]

This goes to the private message guy that responded to hhhnookie2...

OK, so you joined a gym. Don't worry about what you would have done otherwise. Make the best of what you have now.
If you are going to the gym regularly, you should take full advantage of that fact. If the problem is that you don't know what you are doing, then find out.
Think of it as the ONLY reason that your progress is stopped is because of what you don't know about workouts. Get someone that knows--if you see that you are doing chest and another guy is doing the same exercise, then ask if you can work in. Most times, and I mean 9 out of 10 times guys will let you work in (unless they are on some super-strict rest time between sets) The majority of guys out there know that if someone is there to spot them, that they will lift more than if they were alone. And they will probably ask YOU next time. The more people you get to know, the easier it will be to train, and with you guys spotting each other, you will have no choice but to get bigger. By now you should be doing some math and finding out an estimate of how many calories and protein you put away in a day. If you don't know, then your whole idea of building that hardbody isn't going to hold up. If you have to study to take a test how can you build muscle without knowing what to do? Those guys on the covers did a lot of homework to be buffed. Find someone to workout with you and remember not to overtrain (the body needs rest to grow)
I know you can do it, so keep pumping those muscles up!

[buffdoc]

Also be realistic in your training goals. I think it is good that you aspire to have a build similar to this Joe Pride character; but I can tell you this guy is a walking poster child for Winstrol (a specific type of anabolic steroid) and it would be nearly impossible to achieve this type of build without this agent. When starting training, focus on good nutrition and training. Alot of users have posted responses to beginners starting weight training--review those threads, there is good info in there.

[brent]

Buffdoc makes an excellent point, there already is a lot of info on this forum. What to eat, how to lift, etc. you should dig them up and use that information. Remember, you can usually hire a trainer for a single hour, or ask for help with one exercise here or there. I think his advice to work-in is good, so you can also ask that person to watch your form.