freaky huge bodybuilding and racialism

[wpgym_nl]

I realize this is a very hot and tricky theme..
but I see this as my second ( or third !) coming out.
1. I am gay
2. I love real SUPER , MORE THAN HUGE bodybuilders and the stories of MGS- yahoogroup and this site.. They are FANTASTIC!
especially the ones with appeal to my deepest fantasy to create a new super male muscle-race by DNA -engineering.
3. I love aryan white blond BB-men only! and since 2 yrs dare to come out to see them as superior to all others. I cant hide.. I feel something completely different, looking at big black bodybuilders.
I saw Ronnie Coleman, and all the others IFBB top blacks in real life.. and I saw Gunther Schlierkamp, , Jay Cutler , Lee Priest
and the feeling was completely different.
So .. to be honest.. I am white power, deep inside my heart.
I like , Tommy Orvildson, the great new Russian Wave of Super Bodybuilders, the new Tjechs, the Germans etc.
This is me, deep inside. And I cant hide this deep feeling anymore.


Is there any guy who feels the same deep inside, here??
I know there are a lot, I chatted with them on yahoo, but I noticed its diificult to come out for this specific feeling.
But I cant and wont hide it anymore.
I own a super great hardcore gym in Amsterdam.
one of my biggest heroes who works out in my gym , is
edvanamsterdam. ( nr 10 on the IFBB toplist now). have a look at his website! www.edvanamsterdam.nl and u can see what I mean. This guy is super, a real freaky BB, and a terrific normal, humurous, friendly, non-arrogant, guy after all these yrs of pro BB.
Wow, what an aryan hero!

I dont want to offend guys who dont feel the same!. Just like to talk with guys who feel like me.

[arpeejay]

(1) Saying "superbuilt white guys make my dick hard and superbuilt guys of other racial backgrounds don't" isn't racist. Limited, but not racist.

(2) Saying that "superbuilt white guys" are SUPERIOR, in some way other than just what appeals to your dick, to "superbuilt guys of other colors" IS racist.

The first is exasperating but not offensive. The second is offensive.

rpj

[massingUP]

"I am white power"?!?!?

I agree whole-heartedly with RPJ on this one. Sexual preference is one thing. Big muscular men turn me on in ways that men who aren't big and muscular typically don't -- and I'm not sure that's a particularly bad thing. But when one extends that sexual preference to general statements about the inherent value, worth or abilities of people (or groups of people), then it's a hell of a lot more problematic.

I may not be particularly attracted to women -- I'm a gay man -- but that doesn't mean that I think that they are any less capable, competent or valuable people than big hunky bodybuilders who make my dick hard.

But I may be over-reacting here. I don't want to impute anything particularly negative without justification. Just wanted to raise a flag and maybe give wpgym_nl (white power gym netherlands?) a chance to clarify.

-- J.

I would like to believe that poor translation is at the root of this discussion. However, "aryan", "white power" and "superior" in the same message are three words that definitely raise a red flag.

Someone in Europe should know the result of claiming one race is superior. All races have the complete spectrum of personalities and being. It is individuals that either excel or fail in one activity or another but not everyone or everything all the time for ANY race.

Failure to recognize this is arrogance and ignorance of the lowest kind.

Perhaps we should consider that ALL aryans are INFERIOR because the blood lines are so thin, and that ALL aryans are intolerant of other races. They're not like us other races that live and love together and intermix our genes and continually produce variations that are more adaptable. They're not geneticly sound, So let's bash them. Or perhaps since we way outnumber them, we should herd them into pens and raise beautiful muscular aryan laboratory animals for what ever purpose suits us. Bah! Stereotypical stupidity!

Nobody has a choice about who they are. Everyone has a choice about what they do.

If the author truly intended to not offend, he has not succeded.

This is not the forum to air racist feelings.

This is a completely off topic discussion and should be terminated by the moderator.

-- LeatherGryphon --

[wpgym_nl]

All I did was describing an honest feeling..
is that forbidden? Has the political correctness gone so far that the "feeling-police" has become active?
No, I am not wright wing politically active, and yes, i know all about europes history, i am 55 yrs old, lived for 10 yrs as a neigbour of the anne frank house and saw the horror and know what happened! I read all about it and saw the vids and movies.

This storie-site is about hyper masculinity,
U all must have noticed that THE most described or photographed pornmodel /muscle guy is white, blond and has even sometimes blue eyes! why is that? It must appeal to the feelings of thousands of guys all over the world.
For a long time one of the most favorite stories was 'musclelove". in which an old nazi-doctor created super masculine new blond guys. I never read any reactions against that. And still, in some stories the doc with the syring has a hyper-german name..
Again.. no, I am not right wing politically active!

To be complete: I was in my student time active as a money-collector for the black (panther) mouvement. Just as Jane Fonda did. I read the books and posters with "Black is beatifull! and "Black Power" is an accepted term and mouvement in ur nation, not? People who label themselves as such are no racists as what I know from the US.
So what is wrong with 'white power' ?

But my issue and thread was NOT a political one. its pure sexual attraction. Its a feeling that I have and it is very deep.
I prefer aryan ( sorry.. white) blond super freaked guys to others
and that gives me a very strong feeling.. and that I try to give a word. So how would u call it?

This site is about masculine power, and superiority of one guy over another , All stories are about that.
Maybe u remember last year there was a sequel-story on the MGS-yahoosite about slavery in which a black slave topped a white guy. It made some discussion too! at last the common opion was that it was politically correct, because the black guy was superior to the white guy...so it was no racism.
What when the roles would have been reverse?


I just read the 3rd part of Appolyon and it is again SUPER!
at the end of this part a black big bodybuilder humiliates a white guy. ( I citate the word "humiliate" from the story). What about this, guys? is it ok and politically correct? What if the white guy would have humiliated the black guy?
Let me tell u what i felt when i read this scene: IT MADE ME HOT AS HELL, yes! I liked it very much..
And to end this reaction:
During the years I talked with lots of white guys here in my country and on the net, who had this turn-on to be humiliated and dominated by a black guy. even as a slave. The opposite is occurring too, u all must know that.


O what a wonder is a mans mind .......

[polomuscle]

the thread here is sickening. if you get off on white guys and not black guys, fine, but to mention "white power," "aryan," and all that shit--it's offensive. If this were my webpage I'd bar you from it.

[Norseman]

It's this kind of shit that pisses me off
__________________________________________________

All I did was describing an honest feeling..
is that forbidden? Has the political correctness gone so far that the "feeling-police" has become active?
__________________________________________________

Political correctness is when words are changed because the words themselves (and ONLY the words) are offending someone else. I can understand how that can become annoying.

But you are describing an offensive belief system of "white power" that "aryan" men are "superior" to other "races". There is no way to politcally correct this statement. No new words will make it palatable. You're just being a ass.

[muscle_d_2000]

geez....just gimme a man with muscles, I don't care if he's white, black, brown, red, yellow or purple

forget white power...lets hear it for muscle power

[polomuscle]

i think what the original poster was saying was that he is really into white northern european bb's... he just happened to use vocabulary which, on a mostly north american website, hit a nerve with more than a few people.
it's all context.
still ,would the site moderator please remove this thread! it's not what this site is about.

[polomuscle]

does the "new super male muscle race" that you want to create in your fantasies through genetic engineering exclude people of color? that's fine, it's your fantasy, to create genetically enhanced huge white guys...but you are treading on territory which will get you in trouble. "super race," "superior," all that stuff.... this is really not what a lot of us want to hear in a diverse, multicultural, pluralistic society. it's cool if you want to limit your fantasies and interactions to white guys--no one says you have to date blacks, asians, whatever. but do it tastefully, with discretion. and understand that your words ARE offensive to other people, whether you meant it that way or not. We are not being prudish or P.C. ... YOU are just refusing to understand that we find it offensive and totally inappropriate.

[wpgym_nl]

Hereby I ask the moderator to take my thread away.
I have had enough and as I see it , it is not possible to discuss this subject in all reason.

And I dont want to see this great website filled with more hate-speech. maybe it was my first writing which provoked it..I had expected some resistance, but what I read today is pure hate. sorry, enough is enough.
Maybe it are the words that I used..maybe it s the fact that I can not express my vieuws in english with all the nuances that are necessary for this issue?

I thank God I live in a country where it is possible to talk in a reasonble way about what I wrote. Not always.. to be true. There are gay (!)-bars where (sex-)posters with BLACK POWER
( u can imagine whats on the poster) are no problem , but those with a blond hot guy and WHITE POWER are not tolerated... and torn from the walls.
I had a supportive intervieuw with the local newspaper about my openness on this issue, with a photo of me, surrounded by white and black members. I have about 80% non-white members, its one big multicultural gym, about 20 nationalities; yes.. and the owner has the right to have his private (sexual) feelings, just as the members have. ( about 40% of them are muslims and I know some of them think gays are less than dogs, at least thats what their imam teaches them in the mosks; we have a very hot and open discussion here on this subject almost daily on tv and newspapers)
But open discrimination in my gym is strictly forbidden.


U call ur country the country of free speech?
I saw more than 250 members until now who vieuwed my thread.
Those who might want to write something in favor of my point of vieuw, must be scared to death by now to express their opinion. after what my opponents wrote last days.

Keep thinking the way u do; all those guys, who found my thread offensive. its ur full right. just as it is mine to have a different
opinion.

moderator, I ask u to end this thread.

[arpeejay]

I don't think the discussion has been off topic. The fact is people DO have distinct preferences, whether for muscle or blond hair and blue eyes or dark hairy chests, thick eyebrows and stubble.
I think it's worth those of us with a particular fetish exploring the questions of when / whether these preferences cross the line into thinkng the sproing-inducing qualities of a particular type somehow make them superior.

I think WP has probably crosssed that line here, although in fact his command of English (while vastly better than my non-existent Dutch) is rickety enough to ensure that there will always be some question in my mind as to WTF (that's an abbreviation for "what the fuck," WP) he's really trying to say. If I'm reading him correctly he's confusing 100 years of racially biased media images with the idea that's what is being presented in universally desirable, most appealing. That's a crock, and a racist crock.

You're free to say whatever you like, WP; the fact that we find it offensive, and that we're willing to tell you so, is in no way an attempt to enforce an illusionary, red-herring "political correctness," nor does it reflect any disdain for free speech.

It's not our fault that you're full of crap.

rpj

[wpgym_nl]

ok, one last reply, arpeejay.


I discussed this subject since some yrs with several members of the Evolution forum, by chatting. Asking our selves . what do we really feel? no faking, honestly. Is this some kind of (sub-) conscious racism? or racialism?or just a preference for blond guys? Or whatever u may call it?
And: what when we only fantasize about this and have not the sligthest thought to practize it in real life! Like all stories here are just fantasy.

I liked to discuss in a fashionable way on my thoughts with the members of this site But I dont and cant talk with guys who use words as filth, crap, shit or WTF. Sorry.

NOW, WHERE AND WHEN DID I START TO THINK ABOUT THESE FEELINGS..

Thats the story MUSCLELOVE, about 2-3 yrs ago.
And I ask u to write ur opinion about it. ( before the moderator ends this thread). I asked it before in a posting and i really think its important. This story is whats it all about. Do u think it s total crap too?

MUSCLELOVE was one of the MOST POPULAR stories since the start of this site.. . For those members who dont know:
Its about an ex-nazi doc who is experimenting in this story with his syringe on blond muscle guys to make em more huge and creating a new superior blond, white, male society. The whole town (even the pastor of the church) falls at last for his invention.

When I first read this i found it totally shocking, but... (as it seemed, hunderds of others must have felt the same..) in the end it was a great turn on for me. And I asked myself several times.. whats happening with me?? this is shocking, I dont want this happening to me! But it did! Somewhere I was tricked; my cock could nt be wrong.. or could it?

There was NO reaction from any member, who said, hey! this is crap! this is filth. this is Hitlers secret dream of creating his super hero. And lateron more stories with the same subject ( similar docs) occured..and again no reaction of opponents.

I hope I dont have to mention that I am not a nazi! the stories did nt make me one!

But the theme in some way kept crossing my mind. yes , i was tricked, i could nt hide.
Thats what I wanted to mention to the groupmembers and discuss it in a non-political, reasonable way: Hey, whats this? do u feel the same? if u are true to urself, is this some kind of racialism, or not? how does it effect on ur dreams or maybe daily life. Do u feel u might not have this fantasies? or did u give them a place in ur mind. and how do u call them.

Last of all, sorry guys, the word 'aryan' obvious does nt have a so tricky meaning in my country, compared to the USA.

this is the end of my writing on this subject.
think of me what u want.

[arpeejay]

I think you ought to write about this in Dutch and have someone who is fluent in both languages translate it for you. It seems clear that there are all kinds of nuances that you are trying (but not succeeding) in communicating, and many more that have been suggested to you that don't seem to connect.

As for Musclove being a story about Nazi experimentation and creating an Aryan super-race, well, that's entirely possible. I've never read the whole thing, never got into it at all, and the whole Nazi / super race thing just completely went over my head. If I did pick up on it, I probably said "bleah," just as I've said "bleah" to many different kinds of stories that don't appeal to me, everything from mind control to sexual slavery to being a bit too entranced with little boys.

If you're question is, "why is it that such a story would make my dick so hard, and why would I get so excited about it," well, as I've said, I think that's a legitimate question to address.

The problem is that it *seems* like you have been saying, "The Aryan Superman fantasy really works for me (and many other people) AND wouldn't it be cool if that fantasy really played out in real life."

Is that what you're saying? If so, can you understand why the second half of that statement ("and wouldn't it be cool if that fantasy really played out in real life?") would be something people would find extremely problematic?

Best regards...

rpj

[RyBearATL]

It may be late to weigh in on this, but I guess I'll take a stab anyway. (Let me just echo Arpeejay on the whole language translation thing here, and appreciate the energy wpgym_NL is putting in to deal with the language barrier. I couldn't do it.)

There seems to be two issues here. (1) Fantasy being OK or not OK and (2) racial supremacy. (Special bonus: free speech discussion.)

On (1). IMHO, fantasies are fine, whatever they are. IMHO we're not really "responsible" for them, as in we don't make a choice about them or the nature of what turns us on. They simply turn us on at a very basic level, some would say "the lizard brain". As long as they're acted out with consenting adults I generally don't see anything wrong with them.

On (2). WPGYM_NL, I'm Jewish, and even if I weren't, then being gay would be enough. There's no such thing as a master race, and I'm not ready to buy into any idea that any race is inferior. Both of those things seem to be at the core of the whole Aryan thing. If it turns you on in your fantasy life, well, OK. Isn't it Anne Rice who wrote the whole BDSM interpretation of Cinderella
? Might be fun fantasy, but I wouldn't want to live there.

Last, Free Speech.

U call ur country the country of free speech?
I saw more than 250 members until now who vieuwed my thread.
Those who might want to write something in favor of my point of vieuw, must be scared to death by now to express their opinion. after what my opponents wrote last days.

Keep thinking the way u do; all those guys, who found my thread offensive. its ur full right. just as it is mine to have a different
opinion.

I happen to be an incredibly strong proponent of free speech. Notice that the moderator did not remove your thread. Good for him. Free speech means that you have the right to say things in public and not be physically attacked for them. It doesn't say anything about people exercising their identical right to disagree with you. It also comes with the responsibility to accept the consequences of what you say, which can be that people find your ideas offensive. Sometimes this is the cost of making change. (There are many people who think that discussion of gay issues is offensive, and I choose to take the risk that comes with talking about them in public as my contribution to social progress. Blacks have made the same choice in the past.) If you're not willing to stand and defend your statements, then I have to wonder why you made them. I think you knew they'd be inflammatory and probably not accepted.

As for others not saying anything because of "consequences", I doubt it. This is a pretty anonymous place. I think if anyone was going to agree with you, they would. (Again, IMHO.)

-R

[ManOfSteel]

wypgym_nl,

I agree that you need to have a proper translation of your views. In English, "superior" means "better in inherent quality ", but it does not mean "better in total value". For instance, a 30 year old black man is superior to an 80 year old white man if they were both trying to be firemen, where strength and endurance are vital. But both are of equal value as human beings and the thought of one being denied any basic right or consideration is repulsive.
"Aryan" to many people describes the ideal of the Nazi party, to eliminate what they considered inferior races and create a master race, a "cleasing" of humanity, and anything the Nazi party strove to do in that respect is repulsive.
"White Power" describes the belief that other races should have less rights and freedoms than whites, and that in fact whites should control other races...that they should have power over them. It may be confusing, but when other races take up the slogan, for instance, "Black Power" they are not stating the same thing; they are stating that they are asserting their power to rise up and be equal, not dominant, over everyone else.

If you think white, blond bodybuilders are more sexy than any others. Fine. But don't use "superior" That word implies that all other people are worthless. You can say that white, blond bodybuilders turn you on most of all, but if you truly believe that all others should be denied exposure, rights, or anything at all, they you are truly a racist, one who does not even realize it, and that is the scariest thing of all.

[wpgym_nl]

Man of Steel,


I never ever stated that people of other colors than white, should have no social or political rights or that they are "worthless" or that they should be "denied exposure" . So can u please stop accusing me of things that I never said or wrote. Putting words in someones mouth is a low debating-technique.

Maybe the words I used have some different meaning in different countries; but dont tell me that there is just one right meaning of every english word, as if I am a ignorant schoolboy..

And besides that.. this is not an issue of words or politics.
I described more than once what this is about, using nuances of words and icons. describing my FEELINGS for super freaky blond (I dont dare to use the word 'aryan' anymore, lol) muscle growth and - power, exactly what this site is all about. And every story is filled with the sexual effect of muscle power AND superiority!
(In Appollyonlll the superior (bigger) BB uses the words 'fag' as an insult more than once.. I found that at first site rather offensive as a proud gay, but I understand the meaning in the context of the story and got even hot!) Do u like to be called a 'fag'? or do u think it depends on the context?
Talking about the definition of a word...
I tried to define my feelings. I even described my life, more than any writer ever did before, my job, my work, my friends, whites and blacks. Bye the way, my black gym-members like to call themselves 'nigger' since some time, when they talk to eachother. Thats what I felt rather bizar..I asked them how they could do that, they said it was real fun, for blacks only! I was not supposed to call them that way. It took me some minutes to understand the code and fun of it, to be true.


Sorry, moderator, the next lines are completely off-topic, but I like to react to my last opponent:
U americans know all so good what is right and whats wrong, whats white and whats black. nothing between. Black Power is ok, ( "not fighting for any superiority") and White Power is wrong because it does nt want to give any rights to blacks..
Please stop that lie... For several yrs I talked intensively with some Black Power activates in the 60ths and 70ths, who visited Europe... and they teached me their goal (sometimes: hate) out of first hand. and I supported them! yes I did, because I could understand their feelings. I felt guilty as a white boy. I told the members about that. I really know all about it.

When I was on holidays in America I saw the all-white suburbs of some cities even in the northern states, where the liberals live, sending their children to all white schools...And I saw the all-black enormously poor neigbhourhoods too.. where whites hardly dare to come..We dont have paradise here, but we dont have that kind of total segregation. I described my own gym.
I dont say my world is better, we have hypocrisy here too.
I respect ur way of thinking, and hope u respect mine.

But what i dont respect is this way of discussing, of arrogance, of suggestions and insults, undescent words, and of unfair debating technigues. I must have triggered a real nerve, a taboo somwhere, that u all just react this way. Sorry.

I hope this is really the last time I must react to insults.
Guys who like to write something in favor of my feelings are invited to send their reaction to my emailadress.
Dont feel ashamed to use any words u like!
This is not about the right words, its is about hot muscle-feelings!

[ManOfSteel]

You missed my point.
I wasn't saying that my definitions were THE definitions of the words. What I was saying was that in many places, including the United States, those are what those words can, and often do mean. And so even though you meant something good, which I think you did, others might not realize what you really meant and interpret what you said as something bad. And you might not realize that what the perfectly honest and frank thing you said might have been said in a way that could be very misinterpreted. I was trying to tell you what many people feel when you use those words.

For instance, if you say white, blond, bodybuilders are superior, for most Engllish speakers that means that that whites are, smarter, cleaner, classier, richer, have better morals, are not ugly...all kinds of things. This is not true, of course, but that's what it sounds like when you use that word in that way. But maybe you meant that in their ability to excite you visually, artistically, sexually, emotionally...they are superior, that they're sexier...to you. That's fine. But superior is the wrong word to use, you see, unless you define it and clarify it further.

If you say "Aryan" that means (to many) a race that has all the other ethnic variants cleansed out of it by killing people of other ethnicities. That may or may not be the true meaning of the word. It probobly isn't, in fact I'm pretty sure it isn't, but my point is that that's what a lot of people think of when they read that word. That's the hurtful memory it evokes. Now if you had said "Scandinavian" or "Nordic" or "Germanic" or even just "fair", people would probably realize that you just meant white, fair-haired, probably light-eye-colored, guys.

You know what? I have strong preferences too as to what turns me on in a man, so much so that when presented with the opposite, it really turns me off! But that's just my preference. I'm not saying that what I like is better. I'm saying that what I like is better for turning me on. This is the first post I've ever posted here, and the whole reason was because I didn't sense any hate in your comments, and yet I cringed when I heard you use certain words in certain ways and in certain phrases because they have meanings that I thought you might not be aware of.

Suppose a friend was learning Dutch, and they said something that was a little bit nasty but you knew that that was not what they were trying to do. I would hope you'd go up to them and say, with a good heart, "Oh. I know what you meant, but when you use those words, it can also mean this, and that might anger, hurt, or offend some people. So instead, say it like this."

It's amazing how even two native speakers of the same language can misunderstand each other, much less two speakers from two different countries. I don't think anyone here is calling you a racist, as much as we're trying to teach you that the words and phrases you use mean something completely different here. It's just as you said: the words and phrases you use have different meanings. Please learn what they mean to us.

Extending my hand in friendship,
ManOfSteel

[wpgym_nl]

man of steel

ur hand is excepted in friendship.
u got my point for almost 95%.

sorry for the misunderstanding of ur first posting.
I was so fucking tired of all the insults of being grap, filth or whatever.

I myself find this subject tricky too, I wrote it in my first posting, where ends someomes fantasy and where starts real life..well I thought lets start a thread about it. and yes, I v discovered that it aint easy to describe stuff like this un the right words...

wpgym_nl

[ManOfSteel]

Ha ha!

I'm glad we're friends, but just to show another example of how the most well-intended things can get screwed up:

"Your hand is excepted in friendship"....The word "excepted" means "left out", so that would mean that my extended hand is not taken in the spirit of friendship.

"Your hand is accepted in friendship"...the word "accepted" means "taken or received willingly", so that would mean we were shaking hands over thousands of miles. I like this one much better! It's a good thing I knew what you meant, huh? And it's a good thing I was born in an English-speaking country because I wouldn't want to have to learn it as a second language. It's too hard, and I'm too dumb!

[QuoteTheRaven]

It is awesome to get off to those gorgeous, massive, blond, teutonic beauties? I don?t have any current turn-ons from that category by name ? but I do appreciate the look YUMM.

I just wanted to comment on the idea of Ed Van Amsterdam. Do you think it is possible that he is being put on a pedestal? I think it is sometimes easy for us to put people who have some quality we admire and wish we had on a pedestal. Because they have the desired quality we see everything about them in a better light. In fact we don?t see the reality -- instead we see an image of perfection that wouldn?t really hold up if our internal emotions weren?t involved.

I was just thinking about this?.. Without knowing a thing about him other than seeing his website, I know he has done 3 grevious things wrong for this planet for which he might never make amends.

I try to remember? Don?t forget that he is a real human! Just because he?s built like a god does not make him better than you, or me, or anybody! Really!! The thread ?A big question for me is... (seeing bigger guys)? was really helpful to me in having a more healthy attitude toward bigger guys and trying to use them as inspiration but not objects of adoration. And not think, "why couldn't I be more like him" or "I hope to be more like him."

One last presumptuous thought ? don?t give this ed van Amsterdam guy extra credit for being a ?terrific normal, humorous, friendly, non-arrogant guy? or give him extra credit for being a family man and being a dad ? the behavior you describe is the way we should all behave, don?t accord him any additional superiority because he does what we?re all supposed to do. In fact, he had better act that way because of the other bad things he has done.

[wpgym_nl]

man of steel

of course:
accepted! and not excepted.!

and I thought my english was nt that bad afterall.
apologies

[wpgym_nl]

Quote the Raven

what do u mean by " 3 grevious things that he has done wrong"?

I dont put Ed on a pedestal, I just like him very much because he does nt want to be put on a pedestal! He is so fucking normal, humurous and friendly. That is different from other top-Bodybuilders I v met, who are almost untouchable and walk like gods in their gyms.

wpgym

[QuoteTheRaven]

wpgym_nl

My apologies for mispeaking. I went back and revisited ed's website and have to apologize for suggesting he was not a good guy. It comes through on his website, his biography, his messages that he is someone who cares alot about the people around him. He looks like a good family guy in addition to being a good guy at the gym. And he seems to approach his avocation and "bodybuilding" life with integrity which I am sure is hard to do with all of the influences in big-time bodybuilding. Anyway, I'm glad he is a normal guy and that you look at him like the other good guys you know.


My sincere wishes for good luck with the blond muscle giant fantasies :-) And I am very glad you posted. I hope you are glad you did even if you had to weather a hurricane of feedback

QTR

[wpgym_nl]

QuoteTheRaven

thanx for ur reaction
yes, it was like a hurricane...
I felt accused by the medieval Inquistion sometimes..

It feels good that there are guys who are looking behind the words and dont start by questioning my integrity.

wpgym

[ottomun6]

I just read the thread and first let me say that I'm African-American and I almost got angry, but as I read more I realized that the thread was just a misunderstanding and you guys have made peace.
I'm sorry that it got rough for you wpgym. And I hope communications go well in the future. These are good guys.
Its kind of nice to know that they reacted automatically, almost like breathing. Thanks guys, I feel the world is going to be ok just because you guys are part of it.
---Shame we can't get those guys in the Middle-East to work things out like this.

[wpgym_nl]

I hereby thank all members who sincerely tried to read behind the words of my thread; who contacted me, or added me to their friendslist.
Who have more or less the same feelings as I have and try to find the right definitions or words to describe em, which is almost impossible without causing a "hurricane" of emotional reactions ( like one of the repliers described them). Yes, it still is a very tricky issue..
Thank u all for ur support.
Lets start now enjoying the wonderfull world of Supermusclegrowth fantasies again. The stories and the authors who write em, appeal to our deepest male eternal lust. And thats what counts too. Male bodybuilding is the most beautiful sport ever! Its a way of life and of the hottest dreams.

[roodinverse]

...but I'm glad I read through this entire thread.

I know several people who just aren't turned on by people of certain size, color, build, etc. In fact, I'd say we're ALL like that because, let's face it, there are some things that we don't find attractive. Hell, a blond-haired, blue eyed muscle giant would turn me on too.

It's unfortunate a misunderstanding like this happened, but great that it was resolved so reasonably. Other forums would likely have had wpgym_nl banned immediately and I'd say it's a credit to this one that he was given a chance to be heard (actually, it should be "read", but you all know what I mean, yes?). Give us Americans a little credit, yes?

So, go ahead and be proud to be white. I'm proud to be black. It's just that in America, and many other places, it's not necessary to say that you're proud to be white, because white people are still the majority (by plurality) in this country. You not only run nearly everything, but largely dominate the media in the USA. No, I don't have some stupid anti-white grudge anymore than wpgym_nl is a hardcore racist. I'm just stating some facts. So, it seems odd that 1) a white person bothers proclaiming his pride in his own race when positive examples of said race are literally everywhere and 2) some of the loudest proclaimers of racial pride are hate groups (KKK, neo-nazi skinheads, and other idiots with too much time on their hands). And that's why people (including me) got so frustrated with your first message. There is an association with white pride and hating other races that is not your fault.

Well, that's all for me, except one question: what is the link between bodybuilding and fascism?

[sexiscriptor]

I'm not sure if people have already been saying this, but if so, then sorry to be repitive...
Okay, From what I read, it seems everyone needs to CALM DOWN.
Got it? Please try...
Okay, first of all the word "aryan" simply refers to an ideal that early eugenicists put together. Basically, the aryans were supposed to be decendents of Atlantis, and that since Atlantis was supposed to be this whole magical place of fantastic awesomeness, these people must, according to these eugenicists, have the best genes. I could go into all of the insanities of Eugenics, but I'm really not here for that. The basic concept of eugenics, when you take away the crazier elements and stuff, was a noble concept: to help the human race evolve to a better state since evolution in humans has pretty much died out because of modern medicine and stuff.
However, there is a fatal flaw to all of this. The only way to embetter the genes by artificial natural selection, which is, in fact, exactly like the agricultural concept of selective-breeding, recquires you decide who would have suceeded and failed. Thus racism and biases QUICKLY became integrated into eugenics. Things got very out of hand, and institutionalized racism became the vogue. Thus, the nazi's came to be: they used eugenicist concepts to make scapegoats out of certain people (gays, jews, gypsies, et cetera) and thus won support. The desparate are willing to accept anything. The power of hope is astounding, isn't it?
Anyway, truly, the "aryan" concept isn't racist in and of itself. It just means blond hair-blue eyes. Now, much like any word, you can attach whatever you want to it. But you shouldn't just assume it's racist.
Also, the man was just stating a fantasty! Bravo to he who's willing to take such a risk as bare his soul to the world! Granted, he MIGHT have said things that were interpretted as offensive, but he took a huge risk by saying it.
Specifically, his fantasy isn't THAT awful; it wasn't the greatest things he could have been saying, but still, it is a fantasy.
And anyways, I mean we all have our own fantasies. Some of us like huge cocks, some like it rough, some like it sensual and romantic, some like dick over pussy or vice versa or both, some like collosal giants, some like feet, some like huge chests (either pec or breast), some like ears, some like red-heads or brunettes. Some like white skinned, blond haired, and blue eyed men.
For a group of people held together by a pecular sexual similarity, it seems almost hypocritical to be THIS agitated over this issue.
Life isn't worth screaming at each other; think of bible thumpers: aren't they just ridiciulous most of the time? Well, if you yell back, you make things worse. Rather than just hating someone because they hate you, why not try to find out why they hate you? why not be reasonable and {dare I say it!?} amicable? Don't you get farther with intelligent discussion and civil debate than with shouting and obstinance?
Sorry to be preachy, but I'm very sensitive on this topic. I've always tried to see every side of things, to try to get an understanding of the other person.
Really, it's ridiculous how vehemently people are reacting to this; it's ok to be upset, it's ok to be offended. That's reasonable. But to just assume people are being racist and that you need to be outraged and disgusted over something isn't reasonable at all.
I hope I made my point, and I hope I didn't bore y'all, because I think this is very serious stuff and I want my post to be taken seriously.

[sexiscriptor]

I feel less concerned now. Let's hope that we can avoid these sorts of major problems by not jumping to conclusions next time, ok?

[ManOfSteel]

Strange as it may seem, I'm glad everyone reacted the way they did. We all have a right to say what we feel, and if we hadn't, then the misunderstanding would not have come up for discussion, lots of people would have stayed angry, a member might have been banned, or at the very least made to feel unwanted, and he would have continued to honestly express himself with overtones that were not meant.
It's been pretty calm for several weeks now. As he said...on with admiring the male physique.

[ottomun6]

I'm not sure, but I'm getting the impression that a few people think that this was a fresh thread.... um, I guess what really needs to be said now is that everyone seems to have talked and worked it out almost a a month ago.
We all sang "Kumbya My Lord" and put it to rest.

[wpgym_nl]

hey guys!

I appreciate all ur reactions, really.

Well, first I felt like accused by the medieval spanish inquistion.
Every word I said, was judged like a piece of gold or a piece of dirt.
Now I think: all has been said about this subject: at least by me.
But off course : EVERY MEMBER can write his opinion about this precious and subtle, tricky thread.
I have noticed that at least it is NOT an off-topic subject ( :-)), the numbers of vieuws of my thread has surprised me, really! and still it is going on.... so at least I triggered something, maybe something deep inside the feelings of u, members of this GREAT, SUPERB, UNIQUE! website; whites, blacks, jews, arabs, chineses, latinos, something between ( what does it matter!... well, maybe a bit... in our fantasy, in our deepest inner feelings)
This site is about MUSCLE FANTASY, even FREAKY muscle fantasy. and thats why its one of my favorites! really, it is one big , hot turn on for me; and even more.. it is a daily inspiration ; it really gives me energy for life and work.

Lets enjoy the stories!
Even if they are non-politically correct !
( yes, they are many times, in my opinion; but not in the way I mentioned by starting this thread;what I mean is something completely different:

I have always wondered why nobody objected against the fact that almost every story is about growing freaky huge, after the use of some kind of "steroid", DNA- experiment by young guys.
I really dont intend to start a new thread mentioning this, guys..(just because this is exactly why I get hot as hell.. in my sexual dreams!!! );.but as an owner of a gym I know very well.. that the use and abuse of steroids, STH or whatever new kind of artificial stuff the labs invent, and sells them by the internet.. lots of young , naive and innocent gym-guys feel the attraction to buy it and use it, without the help of any doc in real life..... one of my own young gym-members got an heartattack last year, due to an overdose of (wrong) steroids..( bought on internet)
dont worry, he is doing well now and has re-started his training again, we had a serious talk about what he did.. ).

again.. I dont intend to start a new thread mentioning this..and if anybody likes to react.. please start a NEW thread about thissubject.
I just get immensly hot reading the stories of this site about young guys who become super freaky huge; and of the yahoo MGS-group (" Appolyon" is really written by a GREAT author!), I chat regurarly with friends, fantasising about the FREAKIEST ULTIMATE, SUPER MORPHED muscle guys... and there is nothing
wrong with fantasies.

Lets enjoy them, again and lets try to be honest towards whats fantasy - where really every thing is possible - and real life.. where sometimes some elements of our dreams affect our daily judgement..on others..and thats ok too.

wpgym

[brent]

I think the problem was that people were confusing your attraction to white guys as a form of racism. I am mainly attracted to white guys as well, but I have many black, asian, arab, and latino friends. I also have straight friends, including women, none of whom I'm attracted to. I have a friend who is exclusively attracted to black boys, does that make him a self-hating white man? I think we need to be careful when we talk about who we are attracted to, but also the listener needs to understand that I don't hate someone, even if I'm not plotting to land them in my bed.

[vivelecan]

"This storie-site is about hyper masculinity,
U all must have noticed that THE most described or photographed pornmodel /muscle guy is white, blond and has even sometimes blue eyes! why is that? It must appeal to the feelings of thousands of guys all over the world."

Whoa! Can someone say ultra-american normativity!! This is a golden example of neo-supernationalism. It might help to look at cultures beyond your own borders to see what perceptions are.

And to clarify, yes, thousounds of people like men with blond hair and blue eyes... maybe even millions. But don't forget that billions of people like Indians and Chinese and Japanese and Vietnamese and Korean and.... There are a lot more others than you.

[polomuscle]

Originally posted by ottomun6
I just read the thread and first let me say that I'm African-American and I almost got angry, but as I read more I realized that the thread was just a misunderstanding and you guys have made peace.
---Shame we can't get those guys in the Middle-East to work things out like this.

Gee... Some of you guys seem to be blissfully ignoring the original post in this thread, about eugenics and "white power." Creating a "super race...." "superior to all others."
Sounds a lot like Hitler to me.

"especially the ones with appeal to my deepest fantasy to create a new super male muscle-race by DNA -engineering.
3. I love aryan white blond BB-men only! and since 2 yrs dare to come out to see them as superior to all others. I cant hide.. I feel something completely different, looking at big black bodybuilders.
I saw Ronnie Coleman, and all the others IFBB top blacks in real life.. and I saw Gunther Schlierkamp, , Jay Cutler , Lee Priest
and the feeling was completely different.
So .. to be honest.. I am white power, deep inside my heart.

[wpgym_nl]

Polomuscle

In reaction to ur last posting I say:

More than once I explained my intentions. I think there is no member of this great site who told so much about his person, his life, his work, his freinds. Reading ur last reply, I have the feeling that u will start this whole thread from the beginning.
I d like to invite u to come over to Amsterdam and i will show u my (multicultural) gym. And we could talk, looking in eachothers eyes about what i feel and u feel and what my intentions were, starting this thread
If feels very strange, to be compared with Hitler...
I can tell u that!

my sincere greetings

[QuoteTheRaven]

I've thought about this thread so much since it started.

I'm glad the discussion progressed the way it did, but in my experience I don't think there is a person I know who doesn't fall short of the ideal we would all have in regards to being blind to race (or ethnicity).

I know where it comes from. It comes from all the stereotypes we've seen all our lives. It comes from the way media portrays things. It comes from all of the explicit or implicitly racist things that people say or tell us. From our parents, or their friends, or our friends, or things we hear on the street. It comes from this site I'm sure... where is the rainbow here?

And I beat myself up about it. Why the frick do I think some of the convoluted things I think... Just to be kinda honest with an example.... I'll see Colin Powell or Condi Rice on tv and all kinds of subconscious bullshit starts going through my mind... about geez isn't it awesome that they are african american and can be Secretary of State, etc... I used to think it was supportive and open-minded and now I am so embarrassed at how presumptuous and condescending I can be... anyway it's just horrid, i can't even go further because I would be too ashamed of myself.

In any event, I didn't come post to self-criticize myself - trying to have a little compassion with myself and the idea that these are all things from the past either put on me by the outside world or that i picked up because of my own failings. But i am going to let them go, I know it.

I am posting because I saw a program on PBS called "Race: The Power of an Illusion" and it seemed one of the most helpful, enlightening, honest things for me ever having to do with race.

I would say in one watching of that, I am a different person. There are days now when I look at people and I just see them. I don't see a category and have all the b.s. that comes along with categorizing people.

I wish I could give a better link to the program but I couldn't quite find one. If anyone could find one, I think it would be a great gift to all of us to share it. In any event, keep your eye open for the program it offers something to think about. Even the most fair-minded of the group here would probably still find it interesting.

Here is the description of the series I found on the www.pbs.org website when I searched for the title>
"Race: The Power of an Illusion"
The three-week series explores the idea of race. It demonstrates how it is both a biological myth and a social invention; uncovers the history of race and how it's justified; and traces the ways in which these beliefs took hold of our imaginations.

I was worried a bit about posting naggy, serious stuff but I am hoping to post a new story soon... so with luck that will make up for any tsk, tsk stuff here.

[Flexus Lee]

This thread has not been added to for quite some time now, perhaps it is a good thing too. I hesitate to "add another log" to the already simmering and almost boiling over-pot, but feel the need to comment. This is a general comment meant for information and not directed at any one post in particular.

Sexual racism is rampant in our community and one of the more insiduous and subtle forms of prejudice. It is too easy for men to dismiss as unattractive, or even worse unmasculine, members of certain races on the grounds that "I am only attracted to whites" or "Asians don't turn me on". We must be aware that people are varied and come in all shapes and sizes and not to sexually stereotype certain races. It isn't wrong for particular male archetypes to elicit a strong and primal sexual response (that's what this whole site is about) but it is wrong to dismiss entire races of people as sexual beings entirely on the basis of race.

www.sexualracismsux.com

[glammaman2000]

...as long as you're both built like brick-shithouses&the same sex.