a plea for advice

[inqueling]

[DISCLAIMER]: If you are not in the mood to listen to a whiny, confused, little boy vent (perhaps at least here) rather common frustrations, stop reading now.

Hi,

Long-time reader, first-time poster (which makes me sad, in a way). Let me explain. I've come to the decision (oh, how many times now?) that the degree to which I am absorbed in this fantasy world of the male physique is stunting my ability to form real emotional relationships with real people. It also is eating up far too much of my time and money. I know that this actually has to do with the recidivist nature of masturbation and porn, and not with my sexual orientation or fetishes. I think that since I entered puberty I have been trying and failing to get my sexual expression under control. Here's my benchmark: the longest I've gone without porn or masturbation was 3 weeks. I've amassed and wholly deleted double-digit gigabyte "porn" collections (as I'm sure you're familiar, most is not even sexual in nature) 2 times now, and am on the verge of a third. I can't afford this binge/purge cycle anymore, and it has made me profoundly unhappy. I know that if I could just detox long enough (no porn and especially no masturbation) to feel that I am in control of my sexual expression I could be happy with myself. The muscle fetish or my probable sexual orientation are no problem for me, I do not wish to change them. So I ask you: have your experiences taught you that a muscle fetish is inextricably linked to a porn /masturbation obsession? Are you happy with that? If you have managed to separate the former from the latter, are you happy with that? If I wipe my computer clean for the 3rd time, is that the right way to go about it?

Thanks for your consideration, and for all the great stories too!

Ed

[muscleflex_27]

I understand what you're going through. I wanted to email you about it but your emails disabled. If you'd like to discuss it shoot me an email here and I'll get right back to you.

[niko777]

Hi! I also understand what you are going through. I've been through several of the "pictures deleting cycles", since I always felt dirty masturbating while looking at muscle men. For a while, I thought I was gay, but I realized that I loved women, that I didn't want to have sex with other men, but most importantly, that what I liked in muscle men was beauty. I'm sure a lot of people on this forum feel the same way. I like seeing a muscle man's body that is symetric, well proportionned and...simply beautiful, as much as I like seeing a goregeous woman. Inqueling, I don't know your sexual orientation, but let me tell you something: as soon as I realized I was looking for beauty only, I stopped associating masturbation with muscle. (I think the last time I masturbated thinking about muscles was about 2 months and a half ago...) Hope this helps...

[viamanmax]

First let me confess. My collection is well into the triple digit gigs. Let me check, 50,000 files. And yes, I too have deleted everything before, but not for several years. Wiping your computer is probably not going to change things. No amount of time causes me to break my "addiction."

I think it took me a while to realize that my sexual expression was through this strange mixture of muscle images. I don't always masturbate to it now, but I often do. Putting myself into the character is what I relate too. I don't want to be with a muscle man, I know I want to be him. Sometimes though it is just like viewing art. I can relax while viewing it.

I wouldn't dispare, you are not alone. I think I am comfortable with this side of my interests now, but I still don't think I want to share it in person. My life is fairly firewalled between my interest in muscle and the rest of my life. I have never told a single person about these interests in the non digital world. I am glad you chose to share because this is where I find community I hope you can too.

[inqueling]

[ANOTHER DISCLAIMER]: My email is [email protected]. This is pretty private stuff for me (at least in my meatspace life), and I realize it could generate some pretty private answers, so if you feel that email is the better channel, then by all means, check me there.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Niko777. I am almost certain I'm gay, but not entirely sure. I was telling muscle_flexer_27 that one thing I like about this site (beside the obvious draw) is that it creates a camaraderie that transcends sexual orientation. I think it's proof of just how fluid sexuality is (and what a joy it is to realize that!). Another thing you spurred me to think about was the obvious guilt factor. I said that my probable sexual orientation and the muscle fetish weren't problems for me, but perhaps on a subconscious level they are. I was raised LDS (Mormon) and all I have from it now is the residual guilt. Anyway, I think it's interesting that you and I are attracted to the same type, even if we may be near opposite poles of the sexual spectrum. The guiding stars of my collection are boys like Jessie Godderz and Kraig Feldman--beauty, symmetry, not at all monstrous. I stay away from the more surreal transformation stuff here and like the stuff grounded in reality. So I have to ask you: knowing what you know about yourself, is there still a struggle? I mean, what have you done with your collection? Perhaps I am thinking about this in the wrong way. Maybe I give the sexual part of it too much weight. Because then you start seeing this porn collection as an emotional investment when people should have that place of honor, as I have done. Well, thanks for putting up with my rambling.

Ed

[abbraxis]

Well, I only have 2 or 3 GB collection because I get a lot of my... *ahem*... material from YouTube. I don't want nudity, so their filters don't bother me.

I'm realizing now that I'm not gay... just attracted to muscle, but more out of jealousy, than anything else. I want that muscle... and would probably just get off on myself if I had it (just joined a gym to find out ).

So, while I masturbate to muscle, I don't see this fetish as damaging. Eventually I hope to find, marry and have kids with a woman, but I doubt I'll lose my fetish. Someone remarked in another thread that this makes me "sexually interesting", which I liked. Although you call your fetish an "obsession" - but maybe you're just overreacting.

Yeah, you seem to have a lot of stuff... but so what? Friends of mine have entire detachable hard drives of porn. Are they obsessed? No. It's a matter of self control.

Personally, I wouldn't delete what makes you happy... but why not go through and just start deleting stuff that doesn't "do it" for you any more? I mean, if your house is covered in vines don't burn down the house. Try cutting the vines, first.








What a shitty analogy...

[niko777]

Hi! Inqueling, you asked me what I did with my collection, and I find it quite funny, since I don't see it as a collection. The place on my hard drive where I keep pictures (about 25 of them) is a simple file, no more, no less. I don't attach feelings to it. You know, I was raised protestant, and for years I felt guilty for looking at other men. I believe in God and I think that this guilt I felt just meant that I wasn't looking at my situation the right way. I wasn't intersted in guys for sex, or even sexual interactions; I just wanted to be muscled and built and tall like them, that's all. Now, I'm fine. I believe that if you feel guilt, something other than feelings related to religion is going on. Abbraxis wrote you: "Personally, I wouldn't delete what makes you happy.", which is a great advice. However, I will ask you something: do those pictures really make you happy, or are they just another reason not to go out there and show the world who you really are? Personnally, I don't consider deleting entire collections as a sign of being totally ok with having them. Have a good day.

By the way, abbraxis, your analogy was actually...pretty good.

[tlee4000]

My advice would be to ask yourself a few questions before you decide what you will do. Namely, is your collection really an obsession? What I mean is do you, for instance, spend all of your free time looking at it, or when friends invite you to a movie, dinner or something, do you turn them down just so you stay to look at your collection? If you are doing that, then yes, it is probably an obsession. From what I guess, is that you're a young man who is still discovering himself. This is a wonderful and scary time in most people's lives. Discovering new and powerful attractions, finding new interests, seeing that there is more to the world than we actually believed. As for breaking yourself of masterbating to your collection, I think that it is mostly a matter of self-discipline. I know a number of people that have a large collection of porn but still have a full and normal life. Since you haven't mentioned a time period for bingeing and purging of your collection, I would have to say that it is still a relatively new interest for you and that with time it'll assume a quieter place, which may take several months or more. If you think that it is truly eating up your quality time then take small steps in moving it into the background, so to speak, try using a 12 step program similar to alcohol or drug rehab. Go through your collection and analyze what each piece means to you, does that piece spark other feelings or thoughts besides it being something to get rocks off? If it does then keep it, if it doesn't you'll have to decide if it is worth keeping beyond giving you pleasure for a few moments.
Sorry for rambing but I also have gone through something similar but with me it was a collection of muscle mags. Personally, I applaud your courage speak out even if it only digitally. One final thought, only you can decide what it is that makes you happy, the hard part is figuring out what is happy.

[helliot]

This is a very important thread and I fear if I put as much thought into my response as I feel is warranted I'll never actually put pen to paper, as it were. inqueling, you sound so much like a spitting image of my former self it's uncanny. I was raised Mormon, am definitely gay, went through countless deletions and guilt phases, and have at least gone through periods during which I was sure I was addicted to pornography and masturbation.

I discovered masturbation quite late compared with my peers. I think I was 16 or 17. That was about the time I figured out I was gay and suddenly I understood why I had stolen my brother's Undergear catalogs as young as 11. When I finally discovered masturbation, I jerked off at every opportunity. I distinctly remember driving my parents to the airport once when I was 17. I knew I would have the house to myself for several days and I was so eager to enjoy my alone time that I started stroking in the car on the way home. I would also go through stints in which I would have masturbation sessions that would last six hours.

I would clearly label this addiction. Though I was never worried I wouldn't be able to form real relationships, my main fear was that I wasted too much time. That may sound petty, but work, school, friends, family, nearly everything was taking a back seat to masturbation.

I think masturbation is very healthy and fetishes such as muscle are completely harmless. I never masturbate without muscle; "normal" stimulus is lost on me. However, while neither my boyfriend or myself are muscular, we've enjoyed a wonderfully happy 10-year relationship with a healthy sex life. I still masturbate. Sometimes I have cravings for muscle that he cannot satisfy and I seek some alone time. But I never worry about our relationship. I only told him about my fetishes two years ago because it's such a personal thing for me. He finds it "interesting."

As far as the addiction goes, I've tempered it. I don't spend 6 hours any more, and I understand my priorities. I'm afraid I don't have any silver bullets for you. A lot of it has come with maturity. I don't know how old you are but we never stop becoming wiser and more mature. I don't save as much porn as I used to. It's good enough to see it, "use" it, and move on. But I've saved a lot and I don't worry about deleting it anymore.

The biggest problem you have, if I may be so bold, is the guilt. Guilt can be very useful if it helps us avoid bad things and very destructive if it causes us to worry about normal things. I blame the church (all churches, really) and conservative upbringing. That doesn't mean you should live an unethical, anarchic lifestyle. It means you need to decide for yourself, within society's broadest sense of acceptability, what is ok and not ok.

I think discussing it with your peers here is a great idea. The best takeaway is that you're not a freak or a monster; you can love and enjoy life; you can master your addictions and fetishes. My best advice on a next step is to see a therapist. That doesn't mean you're crazy or need pills or anything else. It means you need someone to talk to who really knows how to listen and sort out your own thoughts. Don't go to a church counselor or a "make you ungay" doctor. Just find an average psychologist recommended by your doctor or (hopefully) employer's health plan. You don't have to show up and say "I'm gay and addicted to porn and love muscle." You can start with talking about lost time, or being single, or general unhappiness and just talk. He/she won't judge you.

The only therapy I received was from a BYU counselor when I was 19. I loved it. One half hour a week I got to talk about anything I wanted to someone who really wanted to help me be a happy and fulfilled person. It's a little scary, but completely worth it. I think therapy is for everyone, so if you don't like it, you probably don't like your therapist. Find a new one.

Hope this helps. I'm [email protected] if you need to talk.