weightloss

[muscleted18]

im having a problem, ive gotten the help of 2 friends recently to help me loose weight. both of them are proffessors in college and teach this kind of stuff so they know what they are talking about, or at least i thought so. they both agree i should be eating 1800-2000 calories a day, and think about going on the atkins diet (yes its safe) but when it comes to working out they have different views. one says i should work out 6 times a week, doing 30 minutes of cardio and some weights but not alot since my goal is weightloss at the moment, the other says if i do it any more than 3 times a week it will be counter productive and my body wont lose anything because im not giving it enough time to recover, i dont know what to do, so if anyone could give me some advice it would help alot. thanks

I'm not even going to guess about which diet is in vogue this year but calories do count.

First, the numbers you gave sounded about right for your weight and age. I'll have to look up the formula again but you should be taking in less calories than you expend. To calculate that, you need to determine your "basal metabolic rate" (in lay man's terms your basic resting energy burning rate. I'll see if I can find it then you can have some reason to trust the calorie numbers.

Second, exercising everyday can work but you should consider the type of exercise. The key to losing weight is burning more than you eat. Three factors:
1) your basal metabolic rate (BMR)
2) your eating habits
3) your exercise schedule.

You can increase your BMR. Muscle tissue burns energy just existing. Fat tissue just lies there and does nothing except look gross. Conclusion, increase your muscle tissue and you'll burn more energy all the time. Yea!

This means that the overall exercise regimen should be capable of increasing muscle tissue. Aerobic (stamina) exercises are very catabolic (break down muscle tissue) carried to extremes you get very strong but don't have much muscle tissue (lean & mean) (runners, swimmers, etc.) IF the fat goes away!

Your exercise regimen should include strength building exercises to cause your muscle fibers to grow thicker (not more, just thicker). Being thicker they take more energy to keep alive and burn more calories all day long just existing. No one makes "more" muscle fibers, they just get thicker or tougher depending on the exercises.

It's up to you which way you want to go; lean & mean or big & beefy or a compromise of the two.

Both of your advisors are correct to a degree. To find the compromise do three days of good strength exercises separated by at least one day of rest to let the damaged muscles rebuild themselves (very important!!!) If you aren't a little bit sore on the second day you didn't work hard enough. If you're a LOT sore in the 3rd day you were a little too enthusiastic. On your strength days work in some aerobic (stamina) type exercises conveniently to get your heart racing and break a sweat before hitting the iron. Also bicycle or treadmill or aerobics afterwards to keep your blown out muscles moving for 10 or 15 minutes to flush out the damaged tissue and fluid byproducts.

On the alternate days. Don't do heavy lifting, just do a lot of sweating on bicycle or doing jazzercise or whatever. Even simple things like running up three flights of stairs at work several times a day.(careful, start with what's possible!)

It's all a balancing act. You're young, your body will recover very well from overweight conditions easily if you keep at it.

This suggestion isn't the only one that would work but it's as good as many.

Finally, it ain't a gonn'a work unless you do. This is not like trying on new clothes. It's a change of life style. The cokes and candy bars, and extra helpings of potatoes & gravy have gott'a go. Eat smart, exercise well, sleep sufficiently and learn, learn, learn

Loosing weight? Record what you eat, count them calories, exercise, sleep, stay under the recommended numbers and you WILL loose weight. Don't expect miracles but you can loose 10 pounds a month reliably. Weigh yourself at the same time every day. Food intake and waste elimination can vary your weight by as much as 4 or 5 pounds a day. e.g. a pint of urine is a pound. It's not unusual to loose 2 pints a night.

My web site has a link to the USDA nutrient database. Give me a note if you have difficulty using it.

Oh, one more thing. Dring LOTS of water. Fat doesn't get flushed out of the body without lots of water to move it around. LOTS of water. 3-4 quarts a day.

And my favorite mental image. Remember 10 pounds may not sound like much but it's three big cans of Crisco cooking shortening. Imagine wearing a spandex bodysuit and stuffing three cans of Crisco into it all over your body. Not a nice image, so loosing 10 pounds of fat a month is real progress!!! Six months and you're a new man. Take photos please.

As promised here's a link to an online calculator for basal metabolic rate (BMR)

http://www.apennyearned.co.uk/bmr-calculator.html

[QUOTE=LeatherGryphon]

Oh, one more thing. Drink LOTS of water. Fat doesn't get flushed out of the body without lots of water to move it around. LOTS of water. ...QUOTE]

CORRECTION: That should be 2-3 quarts(liters) per day. Eight (8 or 10 ounce) glasses/day.

WARNING: Too much water is deadly! Over a gallon (4 liters) a day and you can start getting into a situation where you dilute your system so much that the electro-chemical balance collapses and so do you, and you can die or survive as a vegetable! Two gallons (8 liters) is a big NO-NO. And don't let your school football coach force feed you that much. Tell reputable physicians until you get him repremanded, or you or someone you know will be front page news.

See: http://www.teamflex.com/health_fitne...much_water.asp

[muscleted18]

hey LG, thanx for all the info, i like your idea of some days just cardio and others cardio mixed with weights, and i did the BMR calc and according to this, i burn 2475 calories a day without even doing anything? wow thats a lot

i do drink alot of water, but not too much like you said, and that crisco image really is disgusting, lol, i think thats enough motivation right there, lol, again thanks for the help, any more import from other people would be nice too!! and LG feel free to add more if you'de like

[brent]

LG, I really doubt if most Americans are in serious danger of killing themselves with water. Most of us are lucky to get a glass or two a day. I get most of my water in the form of coffee. Life-giving coffee. yum!

Seriously, I don't care what diet you use, your weight will follow the following formula:
weight = (caloriesIn - caloriesOut);
there is no magic to the Atkins diet other than most people tend to eat less. So if you eat fewer calories, and burn more, then you will loose weight.

[brent]

Sorry, I got so distracted by other things in this thread (like water) that I forgot to mention my opinion on training. Remember, I am NOT a trained professional, and everything following this point should be used for entertainment purposes only.
You need to burn calories, so you need to do some weights. Adding a little muscle (even if it causes your weight to go up a little at first) will cause the following benefits:

1. You will have more muscle on your frame passively burning calories all day.
2. Weight training burns lots of calories.
3. You will have more muscle to exchange oxygen durring your aerobic exercize, making your aerobics more beneficial.
4. You will look & feel better & stronger, which will get you laid.

Still do lots of aerobics (3-5 times per week, at least 45 minutes to burn fat) to get your metabolism burning fat, but also do other activities as well. Aerobic exercise doesn't burn that many calories in itself.

Originally Posted by brent

LG, I really doubt if most Americans are in serious danger of killing themselves with water. Most of us are lucky to get a glass or two a day. I get most of my water in the form of coffee. Life-giving coffee. yum!

No, most people don't drink enough water, period. We have a large percentage of our society wandering around semi-dehydrated and this is a factor relating to obesity, and other diseases involving kidney, liver, and other organs. Water is a very simple miracle. Muscle building reactions work better in well hydrated bodies. "Water it builds a body good."

And the thing about too much water is true and it happens more than you think. I have a cousin who is a doctor and have heard his lecture about incidents. I'll see if I can get more direct evidence from him. Unfortunately coffee, tea, sodas, juices are not a good replacement. They're OK and have their uses but clean water is the miracle drug.

Remember, two quarts(liters) per day is good, more than a gallon(4 liters) is bad.

[glammaman2000]

i don't neccessarily believe that,but i do loves my coffee!on weight loss,however.you asked for other opinions.as Shawn Ray once said,"if i had to weigh everything i ate,i'd get out of this business".what works for me:living on protein shakes 3 days per week.3 or 4 per day.food makes me hungry.try 1 day per week at first.then 2,then 3.don't expect to really lose weight until you're up to 3(for a while)mon-wed-fri.if you can do this,on your days off"YOU CAN EAT ANYTHING YOU WANT!"p.s.no coffee on shake days!i'm not reccommending this to anyone else.it's just what works for me.(if your heart&lungs are in good shape&you do serious leg training;cardio for fat loss is bunk)

Originally Posted by muscleted18

hey LG, thanx for all the info, ... and i did the BMR calc and according to this, i burn 2475 calories a day without even doing anything? wow thats a lot

...and that crisco image really is disgusting, ...

If your BMR is about 2500 then a calorie intake about 25-30% less is what you should need to loose weight reliably without dietary problems. However, it's SO easy to neglect to count things and they add up very quickly. 1800-2000 calories in 3 meals is only 600-700 calories per meal. Use the Nutrition database or other good calorie tables to determine how many calories in each egg, or a strip of bacon, or a 4 oz glass of orange juice, or a bananna, or a hamburger, or a glass of milk, or a dozen grapes, etc. Fortunately the labels on food products sold in the US have very good labels for nutrition content. Use them.

Fat. It just makes sense to keep fat intake low. Not eliminated, just low.
I believe the average acceptable fat intake is 60g/day(2 oz.). You can blow that with one candybar. When I dieted I had to work hard to keep fat intake below 30g/day. Try eggs without yokes or 3 eggs one yoke, trim the fat from meat, don't eat chicken skin. Needless to say fried foods just reek of fat. Broiled chicken instead of fried, white meat instead of dark. Nibble on celery it's one food that takes more calories to digest than it produces, watch the salt ...

[muscleted18]

wow, i didnt know it was better to eat white meat than dark, i like both but for meats like turkey i prefere dark because its more moist, thanks for that tho

[The Magus]

I'll throw in my two cents...

First of all coffee (and anything caffeinated) dehydrates you, so if you're drinking a lot of coffee and not very much water, you're shooting yourself in the foot. Same goes for alcohol, actually. I read somewhere that for every standard serving of coffee or alcohol, you need to consume an extra 1/2 litre of water a day to stay hydrated.

My biggest reccomendation for anyone trying to lose fat is to try keeping a food log and keep track of the calories, grams of fat, protein, and carbs that you consume each day. This can help you figfure out if your diet is balanced and where most of your calories are coming from.

My personal preference is to try to live on whole, "clean" foods, like vegetables, fruit, fresh, lean meat, fish, whole grain stuff, etc. Some good advice I've heard is to "shop the outside of your store" when you buy groceries...meaning, hit the fresh produce, the fresh meat/fish, and fresh dairy sections first before you go for anything in a box or a can (packaged food tends to have a lot of added stuff like fat, salt, sugar, etc...)

Don't get too bogged down in specifics at first. A lot of people start stressing over whether an apple is better for you than a banana. If you haven't been eating fruit at all, then either one is probably fine. It's sort of the same thing with the "dark vs. white meat"...if you've been eating like shit beforehand, whether you're eating lean or not-quite-so-lean won't make much difference at the beginning. Don't get so caught up in the details that your motivation suffers.

As for training, the best advice I can offer is to remember that nothing is set in stone, and that you have time to experiment and try different things. If you find that something has stopped working after a few weeks, don't be afraid to change it. I'd give any new program 3 or 4 weeks before stopping (because sometimes it can take a while to see effects), but after that if I'm not happy with the results, I like to mix things up a bit.

I'd also recommend making a place in your weight training for big, simple movements. Don't get dazzled by the 15 different kinds of biceps curls...make deadlifts, bench presses (unless you have shoulder trouble), squats, and chins/pull-ups the core of your work out. By focusing on these compound movements, you get more bang for your buck. After you've got those keyed in., then you can start focusing on smaller, more specialized excercises, but work on building a base first.

As for frequency, the most common info I've heard says that it's okay to work out 6 days a week, so long as you aren't working on the same body part two days in a row. So, if you want to workout as often as possible, try to split your workouts in half or in thirds: ie, Day 1 could be upper body and day 2 could be lower body, or Day 1 could be chest, shoulders, and triceps, Day two back and biceps, day 3 legs and abs.

I don't have any cardio advice, because I've managed to lose fat and gain muscle without doing ANY cardio, aside from throwing a football around with a few friends once or twice a week. As far as I'm concerned, diet and weights are a pretty good way to make progress. I'll probably start up with the cardio again, but I've found that I gain more muscle when I avoid it....

[brent]

My basic point was that most people don't drink enough water. I thought i'd underline that with a silly comment about coffee. As much as I do love coffee, it does dehydrate you, and steal vitamins from you. I'm sorry for that silly comment, and will go back to tagging my sarcasm...

Let's return to the topic at hand which is weight-loss.

[brent]

MuscleTed,
This post got side-tracked onto water and other stuff. Did you decide on a workout schedule? Are there anymore questions? I will be more serious.

[glammaman2000]

...once again,the AMA now says that coffee,sodas&to some extent,beer,DO count towards your hydration totals.(though i'm convinced that caffeine&alcohol rob you of B-complex)

[brent]

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

...once again,the AMA now says that coffee,sodas&to some extent,beer,DO count towards your hydration totals.(though i'm convinced that caffeine&alcohol rob you of B-complex)

I heard that too, but I still drink water after coffee. I also agree about coffee robbing you of vitamins. Just because coffee's diuretic affect aren't as bad as once thought, doesn't mean it's totally healthy...

[brent]

One thing I'd like to point out, is that if you are on a diet, and cheat, you have not blown your diet. You haven't even blown you day, just that one meal. So don't cheat on the next meal. Just forgive yourself, and move on.

[glammaman2000]

if you fall off the horse,get back on the horse.it took me many years to learn this.if you punish yourself for falling off the horse,you'll end up a big,fat masochist.

[The Magus]

One thing I'd like to point out, is that if you are on a diet, and cheat, you have not blown your diet. You haven't even blown you day, just that one meal. So don't cheat on the next meal. Just forgive yourself, and move on.

My diet includes cheat days where I let myself eat as much of whatever I want. It may slow down my immediate progress, but long-term I'm not sure if I would be able to continue eating right without those cheat days (Mmmm....pizza....).

[Shadonyx]

Lots of good tips here, which is good because it helped motivate me a little and give me an idea of where I should be

I do have a question though... in regards to calorie counting, how do you find out the information on meals you eat out? For example, if I go to Applebee's and order an Oriental Chicken salad 9my favorite, yum) how do I know the calorie count in it?

Originally Posted by Shadonyx

I do have a question though... in regards to calorie counting, how do you find out the information on meals you eat out? For example, if I go to Applebee's and order an Oriental Chicken salad 9my favorite, yum) how do I know the calorie count in it?

Ask them. If they can't give you the information, ask for a comment card and fill it out. Then try another restaurant.

Restaurants are finally getting sensitive about the obesity problem (they're being blamed for it) so a responsible restaurant chain should have some figures available.

Alternatively you could enter the restaurant with a scale and a note pad. :-)

[ethernet_jock]

www.calorieking.com has a free food database where you approximate the size of your entree and make sure you add-in all the significant parts (IE cheese, cream sauce, etc...) of it together and you'll get an approximate value that's probably 85% or more accurate.

[Lucas88]

Hi, all! Wow, there's a lot of good information here. One of the key things LG said is it's a balancing act...and there is no one-size-fits-all program to fitness and muscle growth. Here's what works for me:

Mindset: Inches vs Pounds

I try to focus more on the inches (and where they're located) than the pounds. I'm tall and I don't want to lose weight so much as I want to shift inches and actually gain lean muscle mass in strategic places (muscle outweighs fat). I focus my workout accordingly, never ignoring any body part, just focusing a little more on some body parts than others AND I track all my measurements every two weeks and the weight only once a month or so. Note: when I checked my weight every day or every other day just to get a baseline, my body weight could actually shift as much as 7 pounds in 24 hour with no change in the measurements...talk about depressing...then I figured out time of day, fluid intake, meals...all these were skewing the weight. With the workouts I've been doing, watching what I eat within reason, and focusing on measurements instead of pounds, I've seen the arms and chest grow and waist shrink a couple of inches while the average weight has crept up a couple of pounds...in the right places. Much more of a morale boost, I can tell you that!

Workout Schedule: GOTTA REST TO GROW (Heart needs rest, too)

As pointed out by you guys earlier in the thread, muscles have to recooperate to grow. I've played around with a few programs over the years and what's working out best for me is:

Monday - 20 minutes of cardio to warmup and pump iron for Chest & Back (Shoulders and Arms get worked indirectly)
Tuesday - Walk, do stairs, take it easy (the heart is a muscle, too, and straining it everyday has it's drawbacks IMHO)
Wednesday - 20 minutes of cardio to warmup and pump iron for Legs
Thursday - Another take-it-light day (walking is very under-rated)
Friday - 20 minutes of cardio to warmup and pump iron for Shoulders, Arms, and Abs (Shoulders and Arms have recovered from Monday)
Weekend - cut grass, take a hike, ride a bike, don't go near the gym

I typically work out in the evenings just because I'm NOT a morning person and have broken 3 alarm clocks trying to get up a 5 a.m. to go work out. Also, if I miss a day, I just adjust the schedule but I keep things in sequence. Occasionally, I'll throw in a day where I work the full body with a little less intensity on the individual bodyparts just to shake up the routine.


Food: 40 / 30 / 30 - Balance AND Schedule

I've found the old standard (don't know where it came from but it's been around awhile) of 40% Protein, 30% Carbs, and 30% Fat really works better for me. If I go too far away from this mix, I just don't feel as good. If I am going to shift at all, I typically trade some fat for some additional protein. What really impacts my weight, though, is WHEN I eat what...that is, I eat the higher fat and carb meals with some protein in the morning and at lunch and then eat higher protein meals after I work out. Following this plan, I generally have more energy during the day and during my workout and my body reponds more to the workout. I guess it's making use of the protein at night while I'm recooperating.

Eating more smaller meals helps, too, but my meeting schedule makes that hard to do as consistently as I'd like. I try to avoid supplements and eat real food with a multivitamin and a lot of milk (non-fat)


Water: 2/3 Ounce for Every Pound (8 times 8 ounces is different for me than for you)

I've honestly never met ANYONE who drinks too much water, though, I guess you could. I tend to dehydrate quickly so I try to be sipping on something pretty much all day. I've been trying to stick with the 2/3 ounce for every pound of body weight (since I'm pretty big and 8 x 8 or 64 ounces just doesn't cut it). I read about this ratio somewhere a while back (just can't remember where but I started so I must have trusted the source) and it's working pretty well for me.


ANYWAY...I'm no professional but I've experimented enough to know what my body responds to and I don't think I'm contradicting anyone here too much if at all. The key is, don't get frustrated and quit and don't get locked in to one program...experiment and pay attention to your body and how it feels as you make changes. Then, once you find a program, shake it up a little every now and then to keep your body from getting too comfortable with what you're doing. (A CHEAT DAY GOES A LONG WAY FOR BOOSTING MORALE AND SURPRISING YOUR BODY!)

Lucas

[glammaman2000]

...but i lie down until it goes away.a lot of people expect to gain energy as they lose weight.at first,eating less than you're used to may cause your energy to drop.at other times,you may feel irritated&edgy.DON"T EAT UNIL IT GOES AWAY!!DO something!that nervousness is the energy you've been waiting for!file papers,clean closets!your lifestyle revolved around your old energy level.it will have to change with a new one(i usually find this happens about 3 weeks into a diet)

[PAWrestlerDude]

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

www.calorieking.com has a free food database where you approximate the size of your entree and make sure you add-in all the significant parts (IE cheese, cream sauce, etc...) of it together and you'll get an approximate value that's probably 85% or more accurate.

Thanks dude! That website is a big help!