Shaping the quads

[jco2007]

Aim:
Need to:
1) Flare my thighs
2) Develop the tear drop muscle just above the knees.

Constraints:
1) One leg press machine present. I don’t use it, (mainly because I’m too tall ie my legs are too long - ), I can squeeze into it, but the platform where you position your feet, after I’ve adjusted it I feel as if my feet my slip off if I try to use a heavy weight.

2) Hack squat machine: Several years ago (in another gym,) I developed an injury in one of my knees which has now healed. I don’t wish to develop it again, so I just avoid the equipment.

Current approach:
I’m currently doing:
Lunges: 3 X 10-12 (7k)
Front squats: 3 X 10-12 (17k)

In addition to smith machine squats 3 X 15 - 20 (35 - 41 k). My quads are growing, but I need to improve their shape.

What else can I do to improve them?

Thanks

[Mdlftr]

JCO2007,

I'm surprised no one else has yet replied to you, since we've got some great exercise experts on this board, especially those into legs! Anyway, for a first response.....


First off, don't let your height dictate which equipment you use until you've had a chance to learn the proper form and options available to you. I strongly recommend hiring a personal trainer for a session or two, to go over the equipment and some suggested exercises for you.

I'm tall too, and I've had knee surgery in the past (torn ligament) so I understand your caution. For the knee, you need to build up the supporting muscles around your knee caps (quadriceps) to help stabilize your leg. One exercise that is excellent for that is single leg extensions, done slooowly, with perfect form, with relatively light weights for 15-20 reps. You want to really feel the muscles working. Eventually you'll build up in the weight, but this is primarily a strengthening exercise for those stabilizer muscles around your knee. As far as shaping exercises, leg extensions also help with that, as well.

Big leg mass exercises: squats, of course. Smith machine is a good idea.
If you're tall, I'd suggest really trying the seated leg press. Squats can do a number on your spine (as anyone over 35 will tell you) so you take a lot of pressure off your spine, and onto your quads with seated leg presses. Also you can move some pretty impressive weights!

Seated leg curls. These work your hamstrings, and help to balance the strength in your legs. I do seated leg curls because they are less stressful on my back than the traditional lying leg curls, where your butt sticks up in the air and you are face down on the bench!

The lunges are good for overall leg and butt shaping and strength. Bent over rows (which I don't do, but someone else can speak to them) are also good for hamstrings, indirectly. Also, deadlifts are good for their effect on the hams as well, although they are an all around strength building exercise.

I'm sure others will weigh in on this.

Remember, form is key! Bodybuilding is now about how much weight you're lifting, as much as it is HOW WELL you lift it!


Keep Pumping!

Mdlftr

[glammaman2000]

but it really is worth looking into a glucosamine-CSA supplement if you're having knee trouble.give it about 3 weeks.

[massingUP]

JC,

I'll start by echoing Glam about the Glucosamine/CSA supplement. You need to let it build up in your system for about 3-4 weeks before you start to feel any effects, but it really helped me through some joint injuries, and I take it every day now, as do a great many of my long-term BBer buddies. It will likely help you with knee and/or other joint issues.

As for flaring your quads, have you tried doing your squats and leg/hack presses with a narrow foot position? Generally, the closer your feet are together, the more the pressing/squatting exercise works your outer quads. And the wider your stance, the more it works your inner thighs. I have recently shifted from a wider-stance, powerlifting-style squat to a narrower quad-squat and it's making a real difference. And as Md says, leg extensions are also great for building the teardrop.

You can also try Bulgarian Squats, aka single-leg split squats. http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...plitSquat.html The balance is difficult, and it will take you a while to find the right foot positioning, but if you push through your heels this REALLY puts the effort into your quad and teardrop.

I know what you mean when you talk about leg press machines not working that well for you due to height issues. I have some of this too, though I'm only 6'3"+. But I generally find that I do okay if I put my feet high enough up on the pressing plate -- sometimes it means my toes hang off the edge a bit, but since I'm trying to push through my heels anyways, I don't worry about that too much.

Okay. Those are my thoughts for now. Hope that helps.

-- James

[jco2007]

Mdlftr – thanks for taking the time your reply (before anyone else), detailed and informative (I'll try the personal trainer option).

Glammaman2000 – I never new anything about that supplement (I’m going to buy some)

massingUP – thanks for shedding more light on this matter, and suggesting new stuff. (Would you suggest squatting on two days, one narrow stance the other wide stance (my wide stance is feet slightly further apart than shoulder width)?

Guys, I will now go away and investigate and adjust my routine and supplements.

A big thank you to ALL of you – big smiles

Now to implement …

[massingUP]

JC,

I wouldn't suggest necessarily squatting on two different days. What I typically do is either squat wide and leg-press narrow, or vice versa. And if you really can't do any pressing style machines at your gym due to height issues, then you might just try a fairly narrow squat for a while instead of a wide squat -- though not TOO narrow if you're doing free-standing squats, cause you don't want to have balance issues. I mean, if flaring your quads is your main goal for legs right now, then dedicate 6 weeks to it. Squat narrow and see what happens.

After all, 6 weeks is a short time in a year of lifting. But at the same time, it's a good chunk of time in which to try something and really see how well it works for you. The program I'm trying now has proven to be pretty successful thus far, and I've only been on it for 6 weeks.

Anyways, give it a shot and let us know how it works for you!

-- James

[jco2007]

massingUP
I will first try the leg press machine, under instruction using your technique, ie pushing through the heels. If that is still 'no go', I will resort to narrow stance squats (once a week).

The link you mentioned earlier:

http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises...SplitSquat.html

Is really good, not only does it tie in muscle groups, with names and specific exercises it also has an animated gif so you can see the correct form to be used when performing the exercise. I'm intrigued by the Barbell single leg split squat (Bulgarian squat), I'll give it a go, I'll just have to work on the balance first.

I bought the glucosamine, and will tell you how these changes have made a difference.

Thanks for your help.

[ethernet_jock]

I know what you mean when you talk about leg press machines not working that well for you due to height issues. I have some of this too, though I'm only 6'3"+. But I generally find that I do okay if I put my feet high enough up on the pressing plate -- sometimes it means my toes hang off the edge a bit, but since I'm trying to push through my heels anyways, I don't worry about that too much.

so THAT'S the trick.... I knew there was a good reason why I always read every single advice post that you guys give out to anyone. I always seem to learn something new.

I'd been putting my feet about square in the middle having no idea exactly where they should be and... in trying to keep a "grip" with my feet, if you will, it would seem to put a pretty large amount of stress on my knees because I'd have to push pretty hard with my toes to keep my feet planted while leg pressing in the over 350 range. I've wondered for months now if I'm going to pay for that later with knee problems but I always just thought "well, everyone must have to do it this way, they'll probably just need to build up". Now I know :P Heels on the top edge

:P

[massingUP]

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

so THAT'S the trick.... I knew there was a good reason why I always read every single advice post that you guys give out to anyone. I always seem to learn something new.... Now I know :P Heels on the top edge

Hey all,

Just so that I don't wind up inadvertantly causing injuries with my advice, I want to make sure I'm being clear with my leg-press advice. I don't mean you should have JUST your heels on the pressing plate. The more of your foot you can get on the plate the better, and I typically like to keep everything from my heel to the balls of my feet on the plate to press with. When I said "let your toes hang off the edge" I was being rather literal about the "toes" part. *chuckle* If you kept just your heels on the top edge, any slippage with your feet could cause SERIOUS problems and your feet might slide of the pressing plate altogether. And that would be BAD.

That being said, you really don't have to put your feet in the middle of the plate like lots of (shorter) guys do... and positioning your feet closer to the top of the plate should help with that perceived need to "grip" the plate with your feet, etc. Just experiment a bit with different feet placement and see how it feels, where it works, etc. I find it makes a HUGE difference.

Okay. Have a good day all. I'm off to train legs soon myself.

-- J.

[glammaman2000]

but i havefound a way to make leg presses work for me.1st.no belt.2nd.arms overhead(you can always bring them down if you need a save)3rd.reverse your breathing.i find these things help me to lower the weight as far as possible,DO NOT let your hips or lower back curl up on the bench.weight should be on your heels for all squats,presses,etc.weight on toes=stress on knees.

[brent]

I'm with EJ in that I had no idea how to respond to JCO's post. I learned a lot from MassingUp's posts, and I will focus on my leg position too. Thank you for the great question! Also a word of warning: my husband's brother (who is a physical therapist) says that he sees a lot of bad backs from guys doing leg presses. Apparently, the legs are much stronger that the back, and many people arch their back without knowing it, and hurt them. I rarely mix in leg presses, and I do them light & slow when I do.

[ottomun6]

...shh!, here we are in the jungle observing the north american male giants communicate. Most seem to be 6'3" or more, you'll also notice they occasionally communicate with a few shorter males as they continue through the grass. They seem to be attempting to find ways to increase the size of their quads or legs as some of us would call them.
Larger quads make the male feel even bigger and stronger than his smaller and skinnier counterparts.
Jim Fowler will attempt to tag one of these beasts with a radio collar to make tracking a bit easier. It may be dangerous, but Jim is familiar with the moves of the north american male giant due to the fact that he is from a distant tribe in the austrailian plains.
Stay tuned to watch the tagging process, but for now let's see what kind of insurance you should get at Mutual of Omaha.

[Lucas88]

A couple of things:

I'm still working on what "feels" right with the equipment at Golds. Luckily the seat adjusts pretty well but I have to be careful not to lift my hips and curve my back.

I'd not heard about the heels vs toes...I've notice my knees a little when the toes got more involve. I'll focus on pushing through the heels from now on. Thanks for that info.

Now here's something I don't think anyone has addressed...the number of reps. I read somewhere a while back that the legs tend to respond better to higher reps because of the nature of the muscle. The article said to try 20 reps instead of the 8 to 12...I did and I noticed a pretty distinct response in the muscle growth of my quads and calves (though I'm of Scotch-Irish descent and the Scots typically have some bigger calves). I'm also using less weight and can focus on form much more intently.

Any comments on reps?

Lucas

[powerdude]

I have to careful of my knees also. One trick I use is to do a pre-exhaustion on my legs. I first do a set of leg extentions. Then I go right to the leg press and do a set there.

Because my quads are already worked, I am able to use less weight making it easier on the knees. Also because the quad muscles are already worked, but the butt muscles still strong, the exercise pushes the quads further than they would normally be worked doing a normal set.

[jco2007]

powerdude
Thanks for your contribution it was both smart and useful for getting more out of the squat, without wrecking your knees.

lucas88, for squats I generally aim around 15-20 for 3 sets, apparently this is advocated for hardgainers (which I am).

However, I drop the reps for front-squats and lunges, 'cause I'm exhausted after squats. Hope this was of some help to you.

[brent]

I've always used the 8-12 reps thing, until James, aka MassingUp, talked about his legs blowing up using 15 reps. when I tried that, my legs felt HUGE! I will try 20 reps tomorrow! then I will come back to post how that goes, although I am not quite a giant north american male, since I never quite got to the 6 foot marker...