In need of cheering up.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by Corwin

What we called bigotted and idiotic was the rhetoric in your last post. The point of that being that using certain catch terms (e.g. "activist judges", "wrong place at the wrong time") don't advance a dialogue but shut it down by oversimplifying issues. ...
I'm glad to see you learned from your mistake.

Scott

Well Scott,
Let me be clear, since you obviously missed my point. When I use those phrases, I use them as examples of semantic infiltration, where one side uses the language of the opposition to describe a situation. Those phrases are perfectly suitable on the other side of the issue, as Brent and other posters pointed out They ARE examples of the dialog that carried the day in the 20004 election. And the fact is, framed as it was, gay marriage was NOT a winning issue.


The Republicans do NOT have a patent on those phrases. What needs to happen is that those phrases SHOULD be appropriated by the Dems, and anyone in support of those issues, such as gay rights, and they should be used repeatedly, in an appropriate context, until they lose their exclusive identification with the Republican agenda. [E.g., "George Bush--wrong man, wrong job, wrong time" "Don't let Bush's Activist judges overturn 30 years of civil rights" etc.]

Remember, Republican-appointed judges who have to pass a litmus test on (opposing) abortion (which IS the law of the land) are just as "activist" as any judge who supports gay marriage or anything else not explicitly stated in a statute.

The chief failing, as I see it, is the almost complete abdication of the "moral center" by the Dems. They let the Repubs demonize them, marginalize them and even define them. They never effectively crafted a response--and they lost the election because of it.

It is incredibly frustrating to me to realize that Bush's wrapping himself in the American flag and annointing himself with the sobriquet of "wartime President" [a War that HE started, which no one seems to mind] and forestalled criticism for months. I also have to give them a lot of credit--they achieved their objective.

What is the Dem response going to be?

In a time of war, with the economy in jeopardy, social issues have a hard time competing for attention. That's why I say "wrong issue, wrong time." You have to pick your battles.

The ONE ray of solace that can be taken from these 11 state amendments is that they are STATE amendments, not constitutional ones, which suggests to me that the idea of a constitutional amendment against gay marriage is more unlikely to pass than ever. Even with a Republican majority--they still don't like federal intervention, and they are unlikely to push for a constitutional amendment, when the states are clearly addressing the issue. If different states pass different laws, then it will ultimately be up to the Supreme Ct. to resolve the issue, and they may surprise everyone. They've already ruled that consenting adults have the right to their own sexual activity in their own homes. It's going to be tough to argue that the rights in one state should not be given full force and comity in another.

[BTW--In Bowers v Hardwick, which was the original SCt decision that I mentioned earlier in this thread which was overturned by the Rehnquist Court, it was Bowers, the gay defendant, who pushed the case to the Supreme Court. Through the course of the appeals, the state eventually dropped the charges. Bowers kept pushing the case because he wanted a Supreme Court ruling on the issue--and he got one---against him. That established 16 years of anti-gay law, which would never have happened if he had quit while he was ahead. That's why court action is always a crap shoot-- you'll get a decision---it may just be one you don't like.]

Mdlftr

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by Mdlftr

Well Scott,
Let me be clear, since you obviously missed my point.

I'm sorry that I missed your point, but I was not alone. In a written media without other clues, such rhetorical devices are often missed. I'm glad that my interpretation of your writing was incorrect.

Scott