Believable fiction

[yedboh]

I wonder if anyone feels the same as I?

There are so many stories on here, that include incredible growth and development; domination and power, at an almost immediate/overnight rate. These tales seem so popular!

My preferences lie with smaller, gradual development, where the physical size and strength of the individual is believable, rather than fantasy! John D's stories seem to follow this theme - ordinary young guys becoming more, developing their bodies, demonstrating their power and strength over others, wanting their new bodies admired and worshipped. This new found strength and appearance pleasing them and what their new bodies can do and demand.

My desires stem from experiences in my youth. Could this be why I prefer stories of this type rather than giant size growth of freakish proportions?

[mewletter]

Well...nothing's more believable than real success stories. Read some life coverage of Pro. bodybuilders or even some real life growth posts here.

[Ender]

It's a matter of instant gratification that spawns the high speed growth scenes... Cells just don't multiple that fast and they need to be feed both for the energy to grow and the protein, minerals, etc to build new tissue...

I get yelled at here when I point out that the human body won't scale much over 7-8ft and guys that are approaching 7ft and beyond are likely to have heart, lung and endless joint and back problems. For them to not have those kinds of problems would require a lot of adjustment in bone structure not just in the shape and way the bones are jointed but also the internal structure and composition of the bone itself.

Ender

Originally Posted by yedboh

I wonder if anyone feels the same as I?

There are so many stories on here, that include incredible growth and development; domination and power, at an almost immediate/overnight rate. These tales seem so popular!

My preferences lie with smaller, gradual development, where the physical size and strength of the individual is believable, rather than fantasy! John D's stories seem to follow this theme - ordinary young guys becoming more, developing their bodies, demonstrating their power and strength over others, wanting their new bodies admired and worshipped. This new found strength and appearance pleasing them and what their new bodies can do and demand.

My desires stem from experiences in my youth. Could this be why I prefer stories of this type rather than giant size growth of freakish proportions?

[cozman]

I agree with you Yed and it probably does have to do with your experiences when you were young. I know it does with me. And JohnD and Londonboy are probably my two favorite authors because they do deal in realistic growth. Regardless of how good a story begins . . . if it eventually turns into a guy becoming 9 feet tall or having 46" arms . . . I usually stop reading.

[muscl4life]

If you feel that way, go write believable stories and just indulge to your fantasies! Don't make little of a wrtier's fantasy or how he decided to explore it, he is doing this from his own mind and soul. You might not like it, and you might be turned off by supersized muscle growth or super fast. Big deal, just go and write your own stories and stop complaining. No one is forcing fantastic stories into you, this is a free space, anything that is within the parameters of male muscle growth is acceptable. Fortunately, there will be others that will support your own taste and from there you might gain courage to write your favorite kind of muscle growth stories.

Don't criticize the taste of others, the fact some kind of story is more popular than other doesn't mean anything else, you will sure find those who feel the same, just go ahead and contribute to make this forum a place that reflects more of the aspect of male muscle growth that you want to see, instead of mocking of featured stories

[xythan_shadow]

Ummm, I think about half of my stories fall into this field. I'm pretty sure stuff like Bear and Gym of Dreams would constitute as "believable", and maybe Lucky. Couple of others that I can't remember at the present moment.

[burntjello]

I think that most of the stories here go to such an extreme growth, because that is what most of the readers want. And hey, if you dont want to read, you can always write your own stories. From my experiences, I would say that the people who are reading, and writing for that matter, want a very extreme growth sequence, regardless of it being true. It is like people getting on when thinking about an absolutely gorgeous guy coming for them. From this example vs. story example, obviously neither are going to actually happen, but people want to think it might, which gets them off. So when you state the in reality, people can't normally grow to 8+ feet without having problems, people feel that you are being rude, and ruining their fun.

Hopefully I was able to help.
Have a nice Wednesday!

[Ender]

Originally Posted by muscl4life

Come on!

People where stating their opinion... No one said that there is anything wrong with fantasizing impossibly huge people any writing about them... No one suggested that any one do anything different than they do now. No one attacked anyone... until you suggested that people that don't agree with your point of view shouldn't express their own opinion...

No one was criticizing your or anyone else's tastes or complaining about anything, until you decided to complain that people were expressing views that you don't agree with...

As you rightly point out, for the most part "anything that is (relating to) ... male muscle growth is acceptable" as subject for free and open discussion...

I have written a few stories that conform to my tastes but for the past few years my world hasn't been conducive to writting...

Maybe we can agree to disagree on this subject.

Ender

[mewletter]

Another great and real muscle story is this; Sandow the Magnificent: Eugen Sandow and the...">Sandow the Magnificent: Eugen Sandow and the..." />Sandow the Magnificent: Eugen Sandow and the...


I doubt we have such an online community without him.

[muscl4life]

Having a fantasy, any kind of muscle growth fantasy is something really intimate and personal. I doubt that most of writers are building their tales based on popularity ranks, it just happens that certain types of stories speak to a broader audience. If you happen to feel "weird" because of the size of the characters are not appealling to your taste, I encourage you to change such circumstance by writing what you would want to read, and through that you will not only exercise your skills, but you will express fantasies and tastes that someone else might also share.

The fact that I prefer writing fantastic stories does not help me from enjoying more realistic ones (although I highly criticize the term realistic since it's all fiction in the end). I have defended my point of view strongly in the past, but what is most important is to widen the scope of male muscle growth fantasies, which can only be achieved if more writers contribute to the forum, to give different perspectives and approaches.

It's not about complaining about the number of stories that are not "your cup of tea", it's about writing what you feel is hot about male muscle growth. Embrace your fantasies, unleash your inner writer and just go for it, you will see that the personal satisfaction of having your story read by other people is just amazing.

So, good luck with the call for "more believable" stories, especially if those who feel such need contribute to provide more options to our forum, because that is the only way to develop a better forum.

Cheers

[falseyedee]

i've written both kinds of stories. i don't see anything wrong with either kind. these are fantasies and there's room for all kinds of preferences. the original post didn't criticise, just made an observation and asked a question.

our youthful experiences certainly play a part in our preferences here. but i think some of us are "hardwired" to expect a modicum of reality even in our fantasy. i may fall under that broad umbrella. even in my more fantastic stories, i really try to make sure that my weight/measurements and descriptions of size are "correct" and don't contradict themselves. for me it gives my "freak" stories a bit more believability given the general need to suspend disbelief when reading these tales.

[muscl4life]

My opinion remains the same.

Embrace your fantasies, write your stories, show us what is hot and sensual according to your view, and those who share your opinion will support you, and will give the forum a broader spectrum.

Nuf said.

[wolfotehmoon]

Originally Posted by xythan_shadow

Ummm, I think about half of my stories fall into this field. I'm pretty sure stuff like Bear and Gym of Dreams would constitute as "believable", and maybe Lucky. Couple of others that I can't remember at the present moment.

Lucky? I'll say. :P I like your stories because they straddle the line between reality and fantasy in terms of what your characters are able to achieve.

[Ender]

I am reminded of the "bath scene" that was cut from the original release of the movie "Spartacus" that was restored in the remastered director cut dvd. In it a virile Laurence Olivier is bathed by a rather young Tony Curtis, his newly acquired "body servant slave." And Olivier's monologue about the eating of oysters and snails. (Two notes: 1. Both are mollusks . 2. Although thought Kubrick shot the scene as a sort discussion, masters did not have discussions with their slaves in ancient Rome.)

I don't have a problem with whether you are fond of snail, oysters, both or neither, that is your affair... Just as is my preferrence...

If "Don't ask, don't tell," is wrong... isn't it equally wrong in any other context.

Ender

[yedboh]

Well, I would say I've opened up a can of worms, but then some would want big worms whilst others small!
Thank you to Falseyedee, who pointed out that I merely asked a question and made an observation. I have not complained, or criticised any of the stories on this site as Muscl4life (and others) appear to have understood from my question!
I'm not saying one is wrong and one is right, I just wondered if anyone shared my opinions and preferences. What I have noticed (and I'll probably get shot for this) is that some of my American cousins do have a struggle with spelling and grammar.
A few of you have intimated that I should get my creative juices flowing and pen my own stories. I wrote some time ago, on another site, so this may well be an option.

Thank you for all your comments!

[Muslbud708]

[COLOR=White]I have to agree with [/COLOR]yedboh[COLOR=White]. Some writers must not know how to use spell check and never proof read the story. Call me a perfectionist if you will, but I sometimes stop reading when I can't glean the meaning out a series of sentences. Perhaps English is their second language. I can understand in that case but when the grammar is bad like in a story that I was reading today[/COLOR] (was much more than he could [COLOR=Red]of [/COLOR]ever imagined.[COLOR=White]) when the author should have said [/COLOR] (was much more than he could [COLOR=Red]have[/COLOR] ever imagined) [COLOR=White]there is no excuse. Perhaps that is the way the author speaks and therefore he writes.

My other pet peeve is the lack of quotation marks when a character is speaking.

Just thought that I would put my two cents into the mix.[/COLOR]

[muscl4life]

As a non-native english speaker, I couldn't agree more with you. Bad grammar and weird construction sometimes make it almost impossible to understand the writer's intention. I am always trying to improve my poor English in every story, but there are still lots of minor and great mistakes, but it also serves as motivation, if we don't think we can improve our work at all, then there's no meaning about writing at all. In my opinion, a non-native English writer/reader has to break throough two different obstacles: to build sentences with rich vocabulary and proper grammar, but he must also meet the purpose of a dynamic, easy flowing and sexy reading, which is very hard in every single language.

One must be humble to accept criticism, especially when it deals about grammar and vocabulary mistakes, some are just innocent typos, but many result from lack of personal experience. At the same time, one might also understand that rules for proper writing and grammar change from language to language, so when a story is presented without quotation marks to indicate the speeches made directly by the character it might just happen because the writer isn't used to them, because it is not necessary in the context of his native language.

Does it mean he doesn't have to adapt? Of course not, if the purpose is to write muscle growth stories in English, it has to be done according to its rules.

I personally find English a most dynamic and interactive language, and i am always reading great writers from this forum or anywhere else that provides the information I need to improve, even if it does not show dramatic results now, you should take a look at my early works .

All in all, I am not offended when people point mistakes on my writing, especially because sometimes the very logical thought differs depending on the idiom, I will excuse for my mistake and make sure to incorporate the correct form into my writing practice.

Language is something alive and stories need to embody such character if the writer wants it to be good, and the English idiom provides innumerous tools to build a very rich universe, it is just a matter of dedication and study.

Now, what about the other way? How would English native speakers feel if they decided to write male muscle growth stories in another idiom? I would really like to see that, not because some kind of twisted revenge, quite the contrary, that would not only broaden horizons but also provide a whole new experience with vocabulary, measures, grammar rules and so on.

Anyway, I am not afraid of exposing my work and my failures, the stories i write and post are truly my best effort, but I will always try to improve next time around.

Thanks for reading this post,

Cheers

[arpeejay]

M4L:

Thanks for your great comments. I remember your early work and your progress has been simply amazing. At this point I almost never read anything you write that makes me think, "ah, English is a second language for him." Your command of grammar, spelling, vocabulary, and your choice of is very well-developed!

xoxo

Richard

[arpeejay]

I've refrained from this conversation (except to take the opportunity to give kudso to M4L, one of the best writers we have) mostly because I don't really know how my own muscle stories are perceived -- believable, yes or no? What does "believable" mean in this context?

Any more I've gotten away from what Hitchcock called "the MacGuffin," the whatever it was the protagonists were after (the Maltese Falcon or whatever), the plot device on which the story hinged. For writers of muscle fiction, the plot device is usually a pill, a potion, an experiment gone awry, or whatever.

I've written plenty of those (The Change, the Adventures of Rex) but over the years I've found that I prefer to write it straight, as if the growth were a natural outcome of the protagonist's abilities, inclinations, and genetic make up.

Which is no more believable, really, than a ray or a potion or a pill or an experiment. People, no matter how talented, don't double in size in a year, although plenty of my characters have done so, or nearly so.

So I want my guys to be ungodly huge, huger than really seems possible at the moment, but that's OK.

I remember 15 years ago reading Lyman Dally's Max Rep comic strip in Muscular Development. In those days, Max, who was said to be 6'1 and 335 lbs., was another level or two above the biggest pros, even Dorian Yates wasn't that big. In the meantime, of course, there are now plenty of guys as big as Max Rep, either literally (Andreas Frey, Sean Allan, Noah Steere) or proportionately bigger (Kai Greene is 310 at 5'8, for heaven's sake!)

My concept of believable has become elastic. I still don't get much into giant stories but it's hard to beat a story like Josef Howard's "Muscel Service Station" for pure muscle eroticism.

My request: Keep on writing!

xxoo

Richard

[blondYT]

Hey muscl4life: I've enjoyed your stories but you might have gone off half-cocked here. Yedboh didn't criticize the superhuman stories or ever call for more realistic stories. He asked if childhood experiences explained his preference for smaller, incremental growth. No need to defend yourself.

[muscl4life]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

I've refrained from this conversation (except to take the opportunity to give kudso to M4L, one of the best writers we have) mostly because I don't really know how my own muscle stories are perceived -- believable, yes or no? What does "believable" mean in this context?

Any more I've gotten away from what Hitchcock called "the MacGuffin," the whatever it was the protagonists were after (the Maltese Falcon or whatever), the plot device on which the story hinged. For writers of muscle fiction, the plot device is usually a pill, a potion, an experiment gone awry, or whatever.

I've written plenty of those (The Change, the Adventures of Rex) but over the years I've found that I prefer to write it straight, as if the growth were a natural outcome of the protagonist's abilities, inclinations, and genetic make up.

Which is no more believable, really, than a ray or a potion or a pill or an experiment. People, no matter how talented, don't double in size in a year, although plenty of my characters have done so, or nearly so.

So I want my guys to be ungodly huge, huger than really seems possible at the moment, but that's OK.

I remember 15 years ago reading Lyman Dally's Max Rep comic strip in Muscular Development. In those days, Max, who was said to be 6'1 and 335 lbs., was another level or two above the biggest pros, even Dorian Yates wasn't that big. In the meantime, of course, there are now plenty of guys as big as Max Rep, either literally (Andreas Frey, Sean Allan, Noah Steere) or proportionately bigger (Kai Greene is 310 at 5'8, for heaven's sake!)

My concept of believable has become elastic. I still don't get much into giant stories but it's hard to beat a story like Josef Howard's "Muscel Service Station" for pure muscle eroticism.

My request: Keep on writing!

xxoo

Richard

I am really touched by your kind gesture, Richard. Your stories are fantastic and have inspired me many times before. I totally agree with you, "reality" in fictional writing is essentially a flexible concept - in stories like the epic "Transform" universe, one of the greatest features is the ability AKA has to bend the rules of reality to justify his enormous and humongous characters, and then he toys with such concepts as he makes his guys able to "blend in" and than to re-assume their glorious proportions once the "common men" are out of the scene.

I frankly never meant to say anything against the starting comment, but just like people felt I was out to offend yedboh, I can also feel that some of you wanted to offend my personal choices as a writer and a reader. It really pisses me off when someone says "when i read he is 9 feet tall and a ton of muscle I just drop the story", not because the guy is expressing his general opinion, but the very context of such phrase which to me it was perceived as mockery, and I reacted right away - it might have be a bit over the top, but I am humble to recognize my mistakes.

Still, when it comes to fantasy, one cannot rely solely on the ready stories, because each person is unique, and will like things slightly different. That's how I started writing, that's why I want other guys to start writing their own fantasies.

Anyway, thanks for understanding me Richard. I am thankful that the real meaning of my post made through the personal attacks aspect. Now, it's back to my stories, which I will never stop posting, I don't need tons of feedback, I don't need to hit thousands of replies, I just need to be sure of one thing.

I write for me, and my fantasies are mine, in my stories I am GOD and I mold universe, it exists just as I need it to be with guys reaching humongous proprotions and growing even more monstrous, gigantic and colossal.

That's how I like them, and that's the way they're gonna stay. Of course, most of people simply can't stand such choices, but then again, I really don't care.

I am happy to write my fanstasies and I thank this forum for this opportunity, so I just wish you all to get your computers and start writing MALE muscle growth stories to post in this forum, make it more like you wanted it to be.

Peace.

[rextorres]

I have to agree with muscl4life here. Believable fiction is great, but now and then I just LOVE to read something FUN, like a story of a skinny teen who hulks out into a huge, outrageous muscle man! I just love that! I write plenty of that for CYOC and people comment on it all the time! Sure, it's fantasy, so who cares? If you don't like it, then don't read it, but let those who DO like it enjoy it, and there are plenty of us around, so let us be!

[Lucas88]

I don't remember where I found these links...quite possibly in a similar thread on this forum. Regardless, they may be of some interest to both native and non-native English speakers/writers.

Common Errors in English Usage: http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/errors.html

Grammarbook.com for grammar and puncutation: http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/cnt_gram.asp

As far as the actual topic of this thread goes, yedboh, I have no doubt my childhood experiences had a dramatic effect on my interest/desire/obsession with anything related to male muscle. I've looked back often and can identify specific life experiences that impacted if not directly caused my muscle-filled fantasy life and real-world interests.

As far as the stories I prefer go, I like my muscle fantasy to border on the limits of reality or to push those limits a little without getting too extreme. Then again, what's extreme to me isn't necessarily extreme to others and I'll read a variety of themes and plot-lines just to see if anything new and interesting pops up...and when well written, some stories surprised me by really entertaining even though the theme wasn't one of my favorites. There are only a couple of themes that just flat out turn me off and I simply bypass them once I figure out they're present in a story. My lack of interest in those themes also comes from my life experiences as a child and young adult.

THESE NEXT WORDS ARE NOT DIRECTED AT ANY SPECIFIC PERSON OR ANY SPECIFIC "SIDE" OF THE PRECEDING DISCUSSION IN THIS THREAD.

There are a few things that I really wish people on this forum would think about:

1) Written words on a screen can come across more bluntly than the writer may have intended. You can't hear the "tone of voice" in the writer's head when you are reading...they could be stating something much more light-heartedly than you, the reader, are interpretting them simply because of word choice and we all say things differently to some degree. The fact that English is a second language for a number of members of our community only compounds the issue of interpretation of words on a screen. Don't let "the best defense is a good offense" mentality be your first reaction when a defensive posture may not be needed at all.
2) Everyone is entitled to their opinion and they're entitled to express it...they are NOT entitled to deliver it like a sledgehammer to the head just because they can. There's a fine line between being a constructive critic and a judgmental bully...it's all in the presentation. And, if you really want your opinion to be heard and thought about, I would challenge everyone on this board to put as much thought into your criticism of another's posting or story as you are demanding of the author of the piece being critiqued...unless you just WANT to start an argument. The people who agree with you ALREADY AGREE WITH YOU...it's the people who DO NOT agree with you whose opinion you want to sway and you won't do it by getting in their face.
3) Writers should be writing stories because they enjoy writing stories...whatever the theme of the story, have FUN WRITING IT.

Sorry for the book.

Lucas