There's Something About Muscle...

[flexicon1]

Gentlemen,

And women, if we actually have any. Has anyone ever seen a woman post on this site? Well, if there are any, hello.

A new member asked me a great question in a private message, and I thought it deserved a new thread, so here it is:

What is it about muscle exactly that turns people on? Is it representative of something else? Is it biological? What makes a guys rod harden just because he sees another guy flex?

Thoughts? Remarks for the good of the order?

Even though just about everyone here has a hard-on for muscle, I'm pretty certain we all have our own unique permutation and perspective on the matter. I can thus only answer for myself.

It feels hardwired. In fact, the first boners I got over muscle (1976, Gilligan's Island where actor Denny Miller plays an actor playing a jungle man who can hold Ginger and Maryanne up with his flexxed biceps; 1977, Arnold flexxing that insane arm on a mountaintop on the cover of his first bio I keep walking by to ogle in a bookstore), I didn't even recognize the response as sexual. (I was 10 and 11, respectively.) It was just weird and embarrassing. In fact, regarding the Gilligan's Island episode, I can recall thinking I kept having to take a piss, since I only recognized having a hardon when I woke up with them, when I had to pee. I guess I thought my dick was full of piss, and just needed to be emptied.

As I started recognizing the response as sexual, and using the images as fantasy material, I had no analytical sense of it. It was just "MUST GET OFF NOW".

Now that I've had a few years of this intriguing syndrome, I've taken the opportunity to think about it an awful lot. It seems to me just a case of crossed wires: Most guys have a natural sexual response to genitalia, breasts, buttocks. Somehow, I ended up sexualizing this muscular aspect of the male physique. Maybe I saw an image at that mysterious moment when we arrive at our sexual maturity, and rather accidentally imprinted on muscle rather than dick, (or breast, or vagina). On this, I do have some opinions.

I have noted more than once the resemblance of an incredibly vascular and ripped human male to an engorged male erection. I've heard certain men referred to as "walking erections" or "human erections" and had a gut sexual response to the phrase which may point to this as a possibility.

The particular aspect of male growth, especially very fast shirt- and pants-busting variety that is the particular fetish of the majority of members of this forum has an obvious resemblance to the only thing I can think of that grows fast in reality: a dick rising in response to sexual arousal.

In particular, though I find the whole muscular body arousing, I have a particular fondness for biceps, and the freakier the peak the more exciting it is for me. I have noticed that biceps with an unusual peak and clearly defined split resembles somewhat the head of a penis. Some freudians would probably say it was a breast substitute, but they'd probably be straight

There are all the arguments for why a strong male is attractive to straight women: survival of the fittest of the species, the protector/provider and all that. For the homoaffectionate, a similar effect may be at work. I know I cherish the feeling of safety and contentment I feel in the arms of a big strong man. Why do I want to watch him bench press a car? I dunno. But I do.

One more interesting point, because this site is basically porn for guys with a fetish for muscle, and muscle growth in particular: remember the experiment in Psych 101 we read about, where the rat with a lever that stimulated the pleasure center in its brain would continually choose to push that lever over the one that provided food? It starved due to its addiction to the chemicals in its own brain that caused feelings of intense pleasure. That's what this site is all about. It's filled with stories that push that button in my brain. I want to see that image over and over, and in absense of the actual image, I am happy to substitute my own imagined image, inspired by the words of the muscleporn contributors to the evolution archive.

Despite all my rage, I'm still just a rat in a cage.

So what about you guys? Bodybuilders? Worshippers? Writers? Lurkers? Researchers? What are your ideas about why we are here, soaking up the growth?

Share, please!

[Oliver904]

You make some good points, but you know, I just have no idea what it is that makes me LOVE muscle. Maybe its my insecurity during my teen years, or maybe its just my chemicals all worked up. I remember when I was a kid, my first memories of an erection was when I was watching a bodybuilding contest with my brothers. I had to put a pillow over my crotch.

[muslguy]

[QUOTE=flexicon1]

What makes a guys rod harden just because he sees another guy flex?


I don't get off on a guy flexing. Just seeing a HUGE muscle guy, arms hanging gets me going. For me, I don't been to see any action. Just seeing a guy standing there busting out of his shirt......man o man....

[Ogun]

[color=#c6cdf3]Your comment about the rat in a cage strikes true for me somewhat- I've been attracted to women as well as men, but I usually get a consistent hard on with male stuff, so I gravitate toward what works. Hope we?re not starving ourselves though. Also, I think it?s the power aspect in some sense for me. It?s also often about well-defined muscle, not freakiness- if a guy is too freaky and out of proportion he turns me off. So, sometimes I think it?s the growth- I may not always like the results as they may be too big and scary, but to imagine the feeling?..[/color]

[flexicon1]

Ogun,

I'm with you here, actually. My brain does seem to give some boundaries to the amount and/or quality of muscle that will turn me on. For instance, I mentioned that freaky biceps peaks turn me on. I like muscle on all bodytypes, skinny, medium, thick. A thin, lean guy who knows how to flex and reveals nice hardness and definition can turn me on somthing awful. But there are plenty of bodybuilders with otherwise great bodies that don't really flip my switch for one reason or another. It could be softness, disproportion, inflexibility, or odd muscle shape that leaves me cold. The brain and choad know what they want. I just follow.

Thanks for the input oliver904, muslguy, and ogun! Let's keep it going!

[BigLittleTim]

This might not speak to exactly what you were asking, but it's some thoughts on our obsession perfection, especially with VISUAL perfection...

As Sutherland, the quintesential Camp Queen says in Andrew Holleran's brilliant and heartbreaking 1976 novel "Dancer From the Dance":

Never forget (gesturing to his friends on the dance floor) that we homosexulas are a VISUAL people; we are architects, designers, bodybuilders, window dressers, photographers, hair stylists... We value the EYE, and our sins, as Saint Augustine said, are the Sins Of The Eye. Everything here is beautiful, and that's all it is; beautiful. Do not excpect food for your Heart or your Soul, only your eye. If you can only understand that, you will get along beautifully...

Also, somewhere C.S. Lewis talks about, not pornography, but rather just "sexxy advertisement". Advertising firms, in an effort to sell us things we don't need, present us with models of such un-attainable perfection that we can't help but be aroused. Of course the models themselves are not even perfect. The bodies are held in place with wire stays and elastic undergarments. The color is corrected. What can't be done in the photo studio is modified and airbrushed by the graphic artist (we are a visual people...) until the object of desire is so far removed from what any real human being could ever look like, that the effect is to have everyone lusting more-and-more after the impossible... and terribly, terribly disappointed with reality, especially with our own physical reality, with predictably miserable results.

The reason C.S. Lewis gives is so absurdly simple that it bears quoting: "A man with no self esteem has very little sales resistance." ie: A man focussed on obtaining the un-obtainable will buy whatever snake-oil, deodorant, pill, haircut, steroid, growth hormone, insulin, thyroxin, etc. that's offered for sale so he can try to achieve a state that is unobtainable. Everyone unhappy with himself, and you go out and buy the things that they sell you.

What's more, as we become more and more focussed on perfect images of perfect bodies, our primary sexual organs become our EYES! Why do you think so many of us are on here, (and Manhunt.net, and BigMuscle.com), instead of out there actually meeting a real fella who might just happen to fall short of our unreaslistic fantasies?

At another point in "Dancer From the Dance" Sutherland says to the main character, Malone (I... Malone: I, Malone... I'm alone... Get it?)

Darling, TRY to remember; the vast majority of homosexuals are looking for a Superman to love, and find it VERY difficult to love a mere mortal, which, unfortunately, we all happen to be.
No, madness that way lies, my dear. We must ALL find and love a mere mortal; a mortal lover whose farts occasionally punctuate the stillness of the bed chamber, and who occasionally has bad moods... which must be catered to.

-BigLittleTim

[Londonboy]

Gentleman,

Thanks for such honest and interesting responses to Flexicon1's thread. This is certainly a question that I have reflected on for many years - since the day I ordered the Charles Atlas workout program from the back of a comic book (at around age 11-12) and came for the first time in my life when doing the exercises. At that point I thought it was the rythm of the exercise that did it to me, but later I realized it was the pictures of Mr. Atlas. I have tried hard to come to some deeper understanding of what really turns me on and why.

First of all, I believe that for the majority of heterosexual men there is a freedom of discussing what they like and being able to be open about most things that get them going. I believe that has not be true for people like me, unfortunately. At an early age I realized that I would have to hide my attraction to men - but, more specifically, my attraction to muscled men. In recent years, though, I have been working on truly embracing my desires - in an honest and realistic way. If I read novels to help me escape for a few hours and the novels are filled with imaginary places, romance, mythical beasts, and other fascinating things, then why should I not be comfortable reading stories of guys with muscles or even guys with superhuman strength? I have certainly had relationships and evenings of pleasure with well built guys and they have been very nice. But I have now been in an eight-year relationship with a great guy. He's not super built and he's not super strong - he's just super. The relationship has enabled me to truly be honest with myself about what are my deepest desires. My first desire is to be in a relationship that is life-giving and one that challenges me to keep deepening my awareness of how I am "hard-wired."

My partner does not share my interest in muscles, but he is aware of what I like. I am also aware that he is attracted to a guy that is lean, a little helpless and in need or being taken care of, and is a gorgeous Parisan. I hardly come close to matching what he likes. The main point is that we have found a solid place from which we might start owning our desires. I am more freed up now than ever to honestly express what turns me on. That has been one hell of a burden lifted. I still can't share my thoughts, desires, dreams, fantasies with everyone, but I have begun to own them in a new and deeper way.

I don't think I will every stop contemplating/dreaming about muscled guys. That does not make me want to leave my partner - even when I have met big guys since we became partners. I know my "yes" to my partner meant that I would have to say many "nos" to other people and things. But I have not become cloistered or sexless.

With all this being said I find that I am a little different than some people I've met with my same desires. Some people who get off on muscled guys are working toward becoming one (whether it is to attract another big guy or a real desire to be built). I do not share that same desire. I like myself as I am. I'm not perfect, mind you, and I am realizing that my 40s are making me work a little harder to keep the weight off - but I like being normal. I'm pretty healthy and I like a variety of exercise. I do not want to be big - but I certainly like big men.

For me it is something beyond the immediate attraction to muscle that really turns me on. It is hard for me to define, but here is an example. The first time I saw Bob Paris in an interview (prior to him coming out) I thought, "there is something about that guy that really turns me on." Yes, it was mostly his body, but there was something deeper and more exciting. I wonder if I picked up on the fact that he liked men - I know we all call it gay-dar. I hope all of this makes sense - its just that I had admired many other bodybuilders and he is the one that really made me take notice in a special way. Another example is that I can look at pictures of well-built men and enjoy those to a certain degree, but let me read a story about what makes a muscled guy tick or the relationship that same guy is in and I get really turned on. Yes, I like the stories of muscle power and muscle worship, but I really like the stories that show something deeper. I recently wrote how the build-up in a well-crafted story is so much more important to me than even the sex scene. [And don't think that little bit of information hasn't been the focus of a lot of reflection, as well]

I can agree with a lot that has already been written in this thread and I'm probably not saying anything new. I just wanted to add that I believe it is fine to own my desire for muscles. I don't, though, let it rule my life [although I was telling someone recently that the moment I pushed the button to submit my first story to this site a monster was released. I realized that I got jsut as much pleasure out of writing a story for other people than even reading ones].

So, I want to continue to think about this great question. Do I seek the security that "supposedly" comes from being with a big guy? I don't think so, because I haven't always felt that in past relationships. Is it something in my body that makes this happen? Is it environmental? Wow, all these questions ring true for other parts of my life. The one thing I do know is - it's just who I am. I can't deny it, I can't make it go away, I can't go to some de-muscle-lusting camp to rid myself of it, and I really don't want to make it stop. I really want to help others come to a place where they fully know their desires, too.

I hope all of this made sense.

[onelocolobo]

Originally Posted by flexicon1

Has anyone ever seen a woman post on this site? .

this site is basically porn for guys with a fetish for muscle, and muscle growth in particular

Hey! I'm a girl, so yeah, we're here. I have to admit it was a guy that got me here but I came to check things out. I like guys with a hard body (nice abs get me every time) but muscle guys tend to be arrogant/narcissistic in person (not ALL of them but many of them) so I enjoy looking at the pictures on here occasionally (no attitude to deal with). Ya know, a girl can have fantasies too.

I wouldn't exactly say this is a porn site for gay men as I've seen several straight guys on here too and having muscle fetish doesn't necessarily mean you have a sex fetish too. This site is a good place to get advice and learn about building muscle and workouts while at the same time fulfilling some men's fantasies. I think it's a well rounded site (offering good and bad advice but that's life in general) and it offers things for lots of people, not just porn for gay men. I come here for two reasons: the fiction and the pictures. I don't care about gay/straight. Then again, I'm bi, so the wiring in my brain may be slightly different, lol.

[newmus]

Originally Posted by onelocolobo

Hey! I'm a girl, so yeah, we're here. I have to admit it was a guy that got me here but I came to check things out. I like guys with a hard body (nice abs get me every time) but muscle guys tend to be arrogant/narcissistic in person (not ALL of them but many of them) so I enjoy looking at the pictures on here occasionally (no attitude to deal with). Ya know, a girl can have fantasies too.

I wouldn't exactly say this is a porn site for gay men as I've seen several straight guys on here too and having muscle fetish doesn't necessarily mean you have a sex fetish too. This site is a good place to get advice and learn about building muscle and workouts while at the same time fulfilling some men's fantasies. I think it's a well rounded site (offering good and bad advice but that's life in general) and it offers things for lots of people, not just porn for gay men. I come here for two reasons: the fiction and the pictures. I don't care about gay/straight. Then again, I'm bi, so the wiring in my brain may be slightly different, lol.

wow i honestly didn't think there were girls on this site. welcome

[onelocolobo]

Originally Posted by newmus

wow i honestly didn't think there were girls on this site. welcome

Hahaha! Gee, thanks. What can I say? I can drool over half naked hard men just as much as gay guys

[flexicon1]

BigLittleTim -
Great contribution to this thread, man. Thanks so much. I completely overlooked the marketing angle of the musclequest, but you are so right. What about the origin of the recognition that these images could sell. We know from the presence in art from the ancient Greeks through the Rennaissance that the athletic male form has captured the imagination. Who discovered that the attraction was so universal it could be harnessed to invent markets where there were none before? Who revealed the direction to go with the images to push the attraction furthar? I mean, since the images don't exist in nature, who decided "well, maybe if we erased a rib here, and lengthened the legs, we could increase the profit margin through image-driven sales"? The quotes you provided make me want to check out the novel you reference, too. I'm not familiar with it. Wonderful stuff! A very insightful post.

Londonboy -
I'd be very interested in hearing about that workout that provided your first orgasm. Thanks for your thoughts, and for the question that inspired this thread in the first place! It looks like a winner!

Hey, onelocolobo (or unocrazywolf?)
Thanks so much for "coming out". I'm not sure, but you may be the first woman to post here ever! At least in the many moons I've been trolling this site, you're the first one I've seen with the eggs to say so. I knew there had to be some, I've just never seen one post!
I've run into a few women over the years who've admitted to having a fetish for muscle. I always wonder, when I see a male bodybuilder with a girlfriend or wife who isn't in shape, does she have the fetish, or is it just circumstance that has nothing to do with his body that they are together? It makes me really happy that there is someone for everyone, that an average female or even a fat grrrl can have a superman of her own, cuz not all muscleguys are in it to get someone else in shape. They simply do it because they must!
Also, I am aware of the straight guy presence here, and I'm sort of fascinated by what you call a fetish for muscle that isn't necessarily sexual. But you gotta admit: most of the fiction on here is pretty gay.
I join Newmus in welcoming you to the board!

[onelocolobo]

Originally Posted by flexicon1

But you gotta admit: most of the fiction on here is pretty gay.

I agree with you there. I can't imagine many straight guys enjoying guy on guy action but there is the occasional story that doesn't involve sex. At least I think, lol. Anyway, I mostly find the straight guys on the threads involving muscle growth, not in the fiction part. And it's been interesting to see how they react to muscle worship from other men.

[vlad]

great post. as a psych major to be (with neuroscience) this is part of the reason why I enjoy my particular field so much...I feel like i'm part of this mystery. not only "why am I gay" but also "why am I attracted to big guys". I'm still only 20, and it seems like every week or so I'm making new realizations about what I find sexy, beyond just "big guys". I like a big, round face. I like a sort of swagger when you walk. I like barrel chests, a big of a tummy, short hair, etc. I'm convinced this is something neurologically primed in my brain, and it's interesting to explore and expand upon it.

and any post with a Smashing Pumpkins quote gets my vote for post of the day.

and for the record...even within finding muscles attractive, I see on this site that there are different levels. a lot of people on here find bodybuilders super sexy, but I find most of them too lean...I like some meat on my man. just big all over, not just in the "right places". and I'm a sucker for short, thick guys, while some people on here like taller, lean types. so many minutae...the brain, genes, humans...so fascinating.

[glammaman2000]

Welcome!Very brave of you to come out....as a girl!Hopefully,one day your people will have full equality.As to;why me?why muscle?When I was a tiny tot,my family had a Funk&Wagnall's encyclopedia.I decided to read it cover-to-cover.Each volume seemed to have pix of Greco-Roman sculpture.I got the idea that this was the way men were SUPPOSED to look!Super-hero comic books just confirmed the notion.I knew I'd never be able to fly or have x-ray vision,but the guys in the back of the mag had super-bodies&were stronger than normal....At that time women's bodies were sexy;men's bodies were a joke.Women seemed colorful&glamorous;men,dull&bland.Greased-up guys were asserting their OWN glamour!"When the clothes come off,who's the peacock?"Bless'em all!

[Gene]

Originally Posted by onelocolobo

... I can't imagine many straight guys enjoying guy on guy action ... .

Journal of Abnormal Psychology - Volume 105(3) - Page
440
Printer-friendly version
1. Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?
by Adams, Henry E.; Wright, Lester W.; Lohr, Bethany
A.
from Journal of Abnormal Psychology. 1996 Aug Vol
105(3) 440-445
The authors investigated the role of homosexual
arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted
negative affect toward homosexual individuals.
Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men
(n = 35 ) and a group of nonhomophobic men
(n =|&29); they were assigned to groups on the
basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W.
W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were
exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting
of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian
videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were
monitored. They also completed an Aggression
Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both
groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to
the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only
the homophobic men showed an increase in penile
erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did
not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently
associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic
individual is either unaware of or denies.

[ts1976]

*takes a breath*

Hello! I'm a girl too.

I've been hesitating to post here because I'm kind of shy, but also because I didn't want to intrude into what I feel is a gay and male "space". I wasn't sure how I'd be received. I'm still not. I hope you guys don't mind too much...

That being said, I've been a lurker for a few years. I enjoy the stories and many of the images. You have a lot of very talented people here!

I've liked strong, muscular men for as long as I can remember. Seeing bodybuilders or strongmen on TV or in magazines and comicbooks always made me blush and many times, made my tummy feel kind of ticklish. Of course, when you're 5 or 6 years old, you don't realize that this signals attraction.

Later, I found that not many other girls shared my predilection for strength and muscle in a guy. We'd thumb through bodybuilding magazines and they'd always go, "Ewww! Gross!" LOL! I didn't want to seem weird, so I agreed with my friends. Unfortunately, that has kind of stuck with me...

In any case, I don't think there are very many women who like very muscular men, or at least, they don't say so. There aren't any websites out there for the regular girl who happens to find muscles sexy. And believe me, I've searched! The closest I've found are e-book stores that sell paranormal erotica and the like. But I digress.

To me, a strong, muscular man does, in fact, represent safety and protection. He is also a symbol of prowess, sexual and otherwise. Now, I'm an independent woman and I know, in a rational manner, that I don't actually need a big dude to make me feel safe. However, my emotional brain often disagrees. And the fantasies are very nice indeed.

Anyway, I'm quite happy to have found this forum. Keep up the good work, boys!

[onelocolobo]

Originally Posted by ts1976

There aren't any websites out there for the regular girl who happens to find muscles sexy. And believe me, I've searched! The closest I've found are e-book stores that sell paranormal erotica and the like.

I know exactly what you mean! When my guy friend showed me this site I thought "Where has this been and why haven't I seen this before?" Good to know I'm not the only one

[flexicon1]

TS1976. I have a huge smile on my face right now. I am so happy you decided to come out. One of the aspects of my fetish for muscle is that it felt weird to share it with women, cuz it felt so, I don't know, manly? I have told a few women friends, and none of them grossed out too much, but it feels nice to know that there are women with the same sense of oddness, I guess, at the feelings strong muscular men give us. Just know that I for one am glad you decided to delurk and say "hi".

glammaman - man, you sound like you've had quite a life out there. Nice memory of the Funk & Wagnalls. We had the World Book Encyclopedias at my house, and in the "C" Volume, under the heading "California" was a photo from Muscle Beach in Venice. Years later, I would choose to attend university near Venice Beach based on that picture and a quick walk down the boardwalk I snuck when I could get away from my parents while we were in California checking out schools. I had many a sighting during my 3 years in So Cal. Several sightings of the outrageously huge and insanely vascular Mike Quinn may have warped my mind for life.

Gene - Thanks for the footnote. A fascinating study that I will remember every time I run into homophobic men in the future. (Of course, we always suspected this anyway, didn't we? I actually had a big buff rugby jock roommate in college who was quite homophobic and treated me like a freak. Poor damaged Catholic boys. On one of the few nights when he found it within his power to have an intelligent conversation with me, he admitted to being attracted to some men, but since it was unnatural, he repressed the feelings, suggesting that I should try it, too so I could be normal. Oh Ted, did I really turn you on so much?)

And vlad, I hope your studies uncover more fascinating sources for our peculiar sex. And maybe a cure for the discrepency between worshippers (so many) and worshippees (so few!)

[ts1976]

Thanks for the smile and the welcome, flexicon. And hello to onelocolobo, too!

I just don't want anyone to feel like, "Oh no! Girls are taking over the site!" I know how important these kinds of places become to people. I'm here more as an observer than anything. I'll be quiet as a mouse - unless you guys are really interested in what I think, you know?

So that's that.

Happy viewing, everyone...

[Yachirobi]

Go feminine influence! It's nice to see some women who like muscle men too. Keep posting, ladies.

[vlad]

hehe, yeah I'm getting a kick out of the girls on here too! I love it! I know there are girls out there who are into muscles like us guys too, but I have a feeling it's the same as us...it's not really "normal" or accepted or whatever. well...welcome, welcome, and I hope you're not too weirded out by all the gay erotica and guy-on-guy stuff.

[glammaman2000]

I wasn't going to admit this,but I've got a"thing"for big muscle guys doing housework!Not an obsession.But my old gym overlooked apts.,&a VERY hot Colt model could be seen,in a tank-top or shirtless;doing dishes,or ironing.I just thought it was SO cute!&normal!Tom Selleck used to go out of his way to be photographed in the kitchen,doing ordinary stuff.

[ts1976]

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

big muscle guys doing housework

Ooh! Where can I get one of those?

Well, thanks again for the welcome. Very chivalrous of you!

And no, I for one, am not weirded out by gay sex. It's that whole 'yaoi' thang that a lot of women find hot.

[onelocolobo]

Originally Posted by ts1976

Ooh! Where can I get one of those?

ME TOO!! ME TOO!!

And no, gay sex doesn't wierd me out. Like I said before I'm bi so whatever works for ya. Besides, I got here through one of the authors and he usually lets me read his stories before he posts and if any of you have read Rowan's stories, well, you know the sex is hot!

By the way, I love to watch guys flex. One of the guys on here got on yahoo IM on my birthday and flexed for me. What a sweetie! Got me all excited and he's 1) taken, 2) on the opposite coast and 3) gay. But I loved it. He's got nice arms...among other things Damn the fact that he's gay!

[glammaman2000]

A study was done by the film industry,some years ago.They showed people headless,nude torsos of attractive men&women&scientifically measured their reactions.Male&female,gay&straight;they all had the same reaction to attractive chests;male or female.POSITIVE!Advertising was changed forever.

[BigLittleTim]

Going to an advanced screening, tonight, of "Brokeback Mountain"; the movie about the two hunky cowboys who fall in love with each other, but then repress it, marry women, lead secret lives, etc. with predictably tragic consequences. It's supposed to be an incredibly emotional and powerful movie.

When one of the (heterosexual) stars was first approached by the producer, they started speaking about the target demographic for such a film. The actor thought it would be marketed primarily to gay men. The producer said; "No, straight women."

I wonder if some straight women are turned on by images of hot guys "going at it" for the same reasons that many straight men find images of sexxy "woman-on-woman" action stimulating.

Also, most straight pornography is consumed by men, not women.
It's almost a cliche to say that in straight sex videos the women are incredibly beautiful and well-built; while the men, while being very well endowed, are usually pretty unattractive. I've been told that this is so that the straight male viewer won't have an accidental "homo moment" ie: "Gosh, look at the bod on the guy going at it with that hot chick!"

In "girl-on-girl" videos, the guy actually disappears, and the male viewer has nothing to distract him from the female bodies. A straight female friend of mine says she loves gay porn for the same reason... no woman getting "used", just hot guys!

-BigLittleTim

[built_spill]

Let's see- for me, it started with the usual suspects in my formative years... comics and bodybuilding contests on ESPN. Even early on, the whole idea of growing, tearing through clothes, the body swelling has been a huge turn-on for me. Both male and female muscle. For years, I thought there was something weird about it, as everyone I knew thought the whole idea of someone having huge muscle was freakish and strange.

Then, I hit college, dialed on to the old internets and was amazed to find so many other folks out there into the exact same things. It was rather comforting, in a way. As to the sexual aspect of it, in my day-to-day life, I've only been in relationships involving women, but am also intensely turned on by the male aspect of things (I think the few stories I've written are evidence of that.)

I don't know- I'm not sure why sexuality is so intertwined with this. The whole idea of a swollen, massive body... that visual of the transformation, clothing being destroyed... okay, never mind, I guess I do see why sexuality is so intertwined with it, afterall.

Also, no one in my offline life knows I'm into this at all, the muscle, muscle growth and the interest in men. In a way there is a closeted factor to it, which also seems to be a subtext in a lot of the stories that end up on here. It would almost make an interesting paper to study this interest and its parallels with sexual identity.

Either that, or I'm reading too much into all of this.

[flexicon1]

Hey Built_spill -

I happen to think there is a very interesting psychological phenomenon happening on this forum. We're all drawn here for similar reasons, i.e. the muscle images that turn us on. But a lot of us have this furthar urge to understand what it is that drives us. We recognize ourselves as queer (for muscle) and different from the mainstream, but why? What are the origins? And furthar, for me anyway: is it something we can use for our own betterment?

Some of us have taken the fetish and decided to grow ourselves, see what it's like to inhabit that body of our desire. When we do, we discover new levels of self esteem and confidence, and clothing budgets . Some have at least taken the initiative to seek out real muscle worship or muscle play, and act out the fantasies that fueled our sexual thoughts throughout our lives. And we see that there is a certain kind of satisfaction we get from these scenes that we can get no where else. We have uncovered a not-so-secret tool of the marketing industry that uses our desire to convince us to buy all manner of products.

The growth thing is hot to me, but not specifically a key to my fetish. I have to wonder, regarding the writer of the comic The Hulk: do you think he had the fetish? Was he being directed by others to explore and tap into these primal images as a marketing experiment? Or did the comic/tv show create it's own genre of fetish: something new that hadn't existed before?

It still feels mysterious. But I like it when we break it down.

Anyone else?

[dallasmsl]

I think mine was when I used to watching wrestling as a child. Damn, those muscular men in tights! Then, when I was about 9 or 10, we were at a theater (forgive me if I've told this story before) and I saw this bodybuilder (remember, this was late 60's and there weren't that many BB's around!) coming down the aisle. He was wearing a tight white T-shirt and tight black jeans. He had broad shoulders, ruggedly handsome good looks, and a tapered 28-inch-looking waist. And he was all by himself. I couldn't help but stare and wish he would adopt me! LOL.

[Max Mann]

My story is similar and different. My parents came from Poland in the 60's and I was born the year after they arrived. I was raised to be a good Catholic boy, going to Catholic school and sheltered to a degree by my parents' lack of English. I was the class nerd: smart, skinny, thick glasses, the works. The last one picked in gym class, the first target in dodgeball, the one who couldn't do a single chin-up.

Then one day I watched CBS Sports Spectacular which featured a Mr. Universe contest. I stared in fascination, seeing these men with muscles I'd never seen so big before. And when I saw Mike Mentzer, with his thick mustache and mighty frame...he became to me the epitome of masculinity. I found myself looking through bodybuilding magazines, watching other bodybuilding events, starting to feel an attraction to these men, but telling myself it was because I wanted to be like them. Unfortunately, I didn't have a strong enough will to go ahead and start bodybuilding then.

Soon after, I saw my first Playgirl, and male strippers on Donahue, my first COLT magazine, my first gay porn...I still kept telling myself it was just a fetish for a long time, but when I turned 30 I finally admitted - as Ellen Degeneres' TIME cover said - yep, I'm gay. A short time later, I read my first FanTCMan story, and got so into it I wanted to write one of my own. The rest is history...except that last year I finally decided I needed muscle of my own. I joined a Gold's Gym, and though I've improved my body I've still got more to do to reach my ultimate goal. My big dream/fantasy would be to see myself in COLT (although I'm probably too old for them), or posing for Tom Bianchi (he likes his men older, and I'm at that age). I took some pics on my Vegas trip which I still haven't developed (I did take some nude ones!). Hope to show you all some progress!

[BigLittleTim]

OH, who was that ex-football player...Caras? Karrass?? who was always on "Donahue"? He turned actor and was the bodyguard in the movie version of "Victor-Victoria".

I remember seeing him come out on stage in a tight black t-shirt and tight blue jeans. The studio audience squealed! He was SO DAMNED BIG! Donahue just looked at him until the applause died down and then said: "You look like a side of beef!"

I must have been seven years old, but oh do I remember that afternoon!

-BigLittle Tim

[Londonboy]

Wow! I can remember almost all of the t.v. moments that people have been describing. Isn't that funny that there were people all over thinking the same thing as me when they saw these guys on t.v. Somehow that really affirms me.

I've been thinking a lot about Flexicon1's original question. I wanted to describe a little more what happens to me when I see a big guy (ignoring the obvious - a boner). It is really much more than a sexual thing (although I really like that part). I remember my first job working in a neighborhood pharmacy and we stocked some bodybuilding/fitness magazines. I can remember how seeing those pictures made me want to see more, feel more, and experience more. This was even before I could put words on what I was or what I was feeling. I grew up in a small southern town and you just never heard any intelligent talk on homosexuality.

It is not immediately sexual. I think the first feeling is one of awe at the time and effort a person has given to make their body look like that. I also believe there is a little feeling of envy over the power that this person must feel. Like I said before I don't want to be big myself, but I do envy a guy that can be that focused and dedicated. Another feeling included in the mix is one of wanting to help the guy on his mission. I know that sounds crazy, but I feel like I could encourage a guy and help him reach even greater heights. I am always so much more interested in guys that come in second or third in a bodybuilding contest or that consistently don't win. I feel like I could help coach them. The funniest part is when I see someone who has a terrible posing routine. I know I could help them do better. I want to train them to move more smoothly and show off their body better.

Of course all of this comes with the sexual desire, as well, but there is so much more for me. I told someone recently that the physical part of desiring someone is good, but it isn't all there is. I want a guy that challenges and supports me emotionally, spiritually and intellectually, too. And I want to be a challenge and support to him in those ways. That's why I really like the stories that include deep relationships, as well as all the muscle stuff. I want to see why two guys (or girls or a guy and a girl) are attracted to each other. I have known some huge guys who only wanted other huge guys, but I have known some who only wanted someone smaller. I've know big guys who want to take care of someone else and I've knowns some who want to be taken care of. It is a mystery. One that we will never fully know - how can we - we are each different, but I do like trying to figure out what makes me tick - as well as other people.

I know one thing for sure. I am attracted to many different things - someone who knows a lot about a focused topic (like a doctor who is a specialist), a guy who is struggling to figure out what faith means to him, AND a guy with well defined muscles. What is the connector, though. Ah, there is the stuff that life is made of - trying to continue the journey as honestly and openly as possible. Maybe on my death bed I will be closer to understaning than I am now. Who knows.

Ignore this stream of jibberish if it doesn't make sense. I just really like that there are people attracted to the same things I am and, more importantly, there are people exploring what it all means.

Here's to loving the feats of strength done by the Six Million Dollar Man, watching the character of Jaws (Richard Kiel, I believe) in Roger Moore James Bond movies, seeing body builders on the Mike Douglas or Dinah Shore show, watching the "Let's Get Physical" or "I Want Muscles" videos, Johnny Quest cartoons with the blonde hair partner of Johnny's dad (what was up with that), seeing Arnold's book for the first time and leafing through it hoping no one noticed, or the countless other memories of built bodies or feats of strength. May there be more to come, but may there be more movies like "Brokeback Mountain" that explores attraction more deeply, too.

[onelocolobo]

Alright since you're all sharing your first "muscle sitings" I thought I'd share mine. No laughing though! I remember the first time I saw Superman II when Clark and Lois were in the Fortress of Solitude and they were laying in that huge bed. Oh how I wanted to be Lois Lane wrapped up in those big muscles Christopher Reeves was sporting for that movie. Yep, so that's it. Now where can I find one?

[ts1976]

I think my first "muscle memory" must have been watching The Mighty Hercules on tv in the mornings, when I was about 4. The cartoon was kinda hokey and all the monsters sounded the same, but boy, Herc sure did a good job of protecting Caledon. He had sort of a Superman look to him, and wore a short toga, and when time came to spring into action, he'd put on his special ring, raise his fist in the air - there'd be thunder and lightning, from Mount Olympus, I suppose - and save the day.

There is a great 5 and a half minute cartoon to be viewed in Real Video at http://www.toontracker.com/hercules/hercules.htm. What fun!

Goodness gracious, how I would have liked to have been Helena...

[brent]

Well I'm glad to see a few girls coming out to say "Hi". I figured there must be a certain number, but never saw any (other than transgender members, but if you live as a guy, I count you as one.) As a kid, my mom & friends always had gay porn around, because they didn't need a bunch of girls in the way, so it seems normal to me... Life is diverse, so our members should be too, IMHO. As long as the topic relates to male muscle growth, I want to see diverse points of view, so "Welcome!"

Originally Posted by flexicon1

...
And maybe a cure for the discrepency between worshippers (so many) and worshippees (so few!)

Yeah, there is already a cure: a gym membership! It just takes a lot of work, money, and effort.

[musclpkg]

Wow, what a fascinating thread -- so many intelligent writers! Thanks to all for the diverse viewpoints! And hurray to those brave women who have contributed too!

I think what all this drives home for me is not how similar we all are in our desires, but how different we are. My gut is that the desire for muscle is separate from the desire for muscle growth; and the desire for muscle on one's self is different from the desire for muscle on another person. We all occupy a unique space somewhere between these four points of the muscle compass, don't you think?

I do think there is something hard-wired about it, but I?m not sure when the wiring occurs. I remember my first sexual impulse, probably when I was about 10, and it was toward a built, shirtless trapeze artist in yellow tights, showing a nice bulge at the crotch, on a TV commercial for a circus. I had unexplained butterflies in my stomach and a strange "tickle" in the end of my penis. No hard-on... yet. But I definitely knew that something was up.

From that very first moment (and I am 40 now), I have had a fetish for muscles, together with tight, form-fitting clothing, especially if it shows a big crotch bulge. In trying to understand why my turnons are what they are, I can't help wondering if it was just a coincidence: when my mind and body were ready to begin perceiving things as sexual, this was the first image that came my way, and on some level I became fixated. In other words, I wonder if it was not the fetish that came first, and then the images that fulfilled it, but the image first (at the exact right moment), which created the fetish within me permanently. I am still turned on by plenty of other things besides muscle and big baskets? but those things are almost primal in the way they stimulate me. Hence my handle on this forum, Msclpkg ? ?Muscle Package.? That about sums it up.

Not long after the trapeze artist, my first sexual dream involved Tarzan, with his long, loping muscles and a tattered loincloth that was lifted slightly away from his quads by the protrusion of his free-swinging cock hidden behind it. In the dream he was in a cage for some reason, and I was outside the cage watching him; he was raging against his imprisonment, rattling the bars and screaming in animal rage, his muscles tense and gleaming with sweat. This image was extremely hot to me and I masturbated to it for years afterward.

As a young teenager I remember seeing an ad in Sports Illustrated that showed the former major league pitcher Jim Palmer posing in a pair of bikini underwear ? Jockey Elance, I believe ? that cemented the muscle/bulge ideal for me. I took the trouble to go find the same issue of the magazine in the library, take it into the men?s room and jack off over it? and then I cut the page out of the magazine and took it home with me. In those pre-internet days, I accumulated quite a hoard of hot images that I collected and pasted into a secret scrapbook with my own sexy captions. Around the same time I discovered bodybuilding and workout magazines, and the Undergear catalog ? which, to my sensibility, were better than ?naked? gay porn. They all showed men with idealized bodies, wearing clothing that left just enough to the imagination. There was ? and is still -- something about being able to see almost all of a sexually ideal male body, but not all, that drives me wild. Bodybuilders and underwear models filled that same niche for me. So I came to the fetish for big muscle ? competitive, highly-developed muscle ? through the desire to see men posing in skimpy trunks, not the desire to see the muscle itself. But hey, the big muscle is a pretty great side benefit!

I?ll also admit that I share very little of the attraction to muscle growth that is such a driving force on this forum. If it?s a means to the end, great ? if the subject winds up totally hot and a teasing exhibitionist, bring it on. But the clothes ripping, the feats of strength, I could take them or leave them. For whatever reason, I liked Bill Bixby better than Lou Ferrigno. Also, the ?protector? theory doesn?t really hold water for me; yes, he?s strong, but that doesn?t guarantee that he loves you or that he will keep his strong arms around you when you really need them. And, I have never envisioned myself as a massive muscleman, unlike many on this forum ? I am content to enjoy how it looks on others. I do value staying healthy and in shape, but the obsessional dedication required to achieve major muscle in oneself has never held an attraction for me. But a guy who likes to show off the results of his obsessional dedication? Oh, yeah.

And, to go even a little deeper: I think that my arousal at muscular bodies and tight/skimpy clothing stems ultimately from the knowledge that a muscular man who displays himself in that way ? obviously an object of desire, or at least of admiration ? must know that he looks hot, and must want to inspire that reaction in his viewers ? even if he only knows it and wants it subconsciously. It?s that quality of exhibitionism that, I think, is at the root of the eroticism for me ? a psychological attraction to what must be going on inside the guy?s head. In competitive bodybuilding, it?s even more heightened by the excessive preening that it requires ? artificial tanning, the methodical application of oil, the narcissistic posing and the grandstanding for the audience. On the face of it, I find it all a little ridiculous ? but what are they trying to do if not to turn us on? And that really gets me. It may be ridiculous, but boy does it make me cum.

The psychological aspect ? what is going on inside the muscle dude?s head ? is the reason that FanTCMan?s stories are to me the most erotic of any that appear on this forum. Not only does he do a great job describing the physical transformations; he also gets us inside the (often unwilling, or uncomprehending) head of the transformee, from ?normal guy? into totally muscle-, masculinity- and cock-obsessed sex machine. Now THAT is hot.

What I find so interesting about all this is that, while my individual attractions can differ markedly from those of other members (and maybe they?re not all that different ? let me know!), we can all still meet here and express our fantasies, and get each other going in all our diverse ways. THANK YOU to all the wonderful, smart contributors that post on this forum!

[beeflover2001]

I wonder if some straight women are turned on by images of hot guys "going at it" for the same reasons that many straight men find images of sexxy "woman-on-woman" action stimulating.

You have never read "slash" fiction then. "Slash" is a genre of fan fiction that involves the pairing of two male characters from a TV show (or movie) in a love and/or sexual relationship. Using the "X-Files" as an example, a slash writer would pair Mulder/Skinner, Mulder/Krycek, or (my personal favorite) Skinner/Krycek (note the solidus; hence the term "slash"). Although there are some male authors (I've dabbled, but not yet produced anything for the public), slash is written predominantly by women for women. And some of those women can get pretty freaky too. It is reported to have originated when fans started writing stories involving Kirk and Spock from classic "Star Trek" in the love that dare not speak its name. Almost every show out there has its fan base, and some extremely talented writers, creating slash stories. Stories range from huge novels, exploring their relationship, etc., to the "PWP" -- Plot? What plot? -- which is nothing but hardcore sex (and often graphic and often extremely kinky). I read mostly "X-Files" slash (Skinner/Krycek), but I've also read some "Stargate SG-1," where the pairing is usually Jack O'Neill and Daniel Jackson.

As for the muscle thing, I've been reading the responses here with interest. I've often wondered myself at my fascination with hypertrophied muscle fibers. I think I had the muscle fetish long before I realized the homosexual aspects of it. I remember being so incredible turned on (although I didn't know what that was) when my neighbor hauled out his stack of muscle magazines. And in high school (late '70s), one of the older students who was into bodybuilding must have convinced the principal to let him put on a show. I remember the girls laughing at him, but I left the auditorium feeling as though my entire body was one huge hardon, I was so turned on.

For me, growing up, Muscular Development magazine was my porn and I was always sure the clerk at the corner candy store knew that's why I was buying it (I was anything but muscular and athletic). (Richard Baldwin was my "first.")

My recognition of a fetish for muscle growth came much later, just the last few years, in fact, although I was always turned on by Popeye cartoons (but loved it more when Bluto flexed). I remember first discovering muscle fiction on the Web. I was searching for pictures, when I came across the stories of Myoder. I was disappointed that they were just stories, until I started reading them. His men were HUGE! with 40-inch arms and pumpkinlike pecs, ripping out trees from the ground or bending steel bars. I "enjoyed" those stories three times in one night!

I find that in "real life," I prefer the look of what I term "regular guys with muscle" -- a powerlifting bear, or the average Joe who's built up some, or even the lean muscle teen. (And I like guys with hefty guts, but preferably paired with thick arms and chest.) Pro bodybuilders in competition form have gotten grostesque and so unappealing for me. Over at Muscle Service Station, there was a thread on the one of the forums about huge bodybuilders and one guy said he knew a bodybuilder who had gotten so big, he couldn't wipe his own ass. That's too big.

Oddly, in fantasy, though, the bigger the better (HSMusclboy, or Mighty Hard, for drawings; or any of the Atomic morphs). Brad Hollibaugh, for instance, is gross, with those huge misshapen arms; yet if it was an Atomic morph, I'd be whacking away.

I've stopped trying to figure out why muscle and strength are such turnons for me. I enjoy looking at pictures of musclemen, I enjoy reading stories of superstrong guys. How I was "programmed" to respond to muscle doesn't seem to matter that much. I think I was born that way.

Sorry for kinda rambling here...

[casski]

[color=#000000]Great discussion. I think my tack may be a little different on why muscle turns me on. To me it?s a matter of being male and in touch with your masculinity. I would also speculate it might have something to do with testosterone levels.[/color]

[color=#000000] [/color]

[color=#000000]The sensation one gets when using your muscle whether it be in the gym, on the field or under some adverse situation when all your strength is called upon. There is something about working the muscle that is so primal. Transferring this feeling to seeing other males with well defined muscle is no more than an assumption that the better defined the muscle (size is irrelevant to some extent), the more it is being worked and the more intense the masculinity of the male sporting the defined muscle. Don?t get me wrong but seeing a huge Ronnie Coleman has some attraction but my intensity really rises when I see an extremely cut and vascular male with above normal muscle size and extraordinary definition. Examples would be Dan Decker, Mike Ergas, Ehil Heath, Kevin Melkild or Jesse Duque, these are but a few who exhibit that thick but extreme defined look.[/color]

[color=#000000] [/color]

[color=#000000]I think there may also be a chemical connection- i.e. one?s t-levels. The higher your level, the greater your sensation of maleness. These levels are to a large extent genetically determined but also are influenced by physical activity. Pumping iron can raise those levels. When I take my muscle to a level of what is known as failure, I also experience an intense rise in my, shall we say, male libido. This helps explain why I love going to the gym. There is also the attraction of working out with other males who are probably having the same sensations. It kind of a male bonding thing.[/color]

[color=#000000] [/color]

[color=#000000]Lastly there is the matter of feeling hard muscle. Oh that?s another thread?.[/color]

[hottiestudboi]

I'll have to agree with everything beeflover said.

[Florian]

I remember watching The Mighty Herc cartoons as well when I was a kid. Definately made an impression on me. Another classic cartoon was "Sinbad the Sailor". He's pull on his magic belt become all buff and do his stuff.