Stature and Social Influence

[hulkoutlvr]

I'm not sure if there has ever been a specific thread about bullying on here, but it's been on my mind a lot lately, and I'm curious about everyone's thoughts.

Yesterday, I was reading an article about the recent school shooting in California. One of the suspected shooter (they still haven't released his name because he is a minor)'s neighbors gave a statement to the press, saying that the shooter, to her knowledge, had been bullied by the victim for being "short" and "a small guy". She did not go as far as to say that she believed the victim had it coming, but she said, "I don't mean to sound crappy about it, but he WAS bullying that kid for being little." No real motive has been discussed by the press yet, but from the article I read, one might think that the kid just snapped after being bullied over his size.


I remember being bullied all the time when I was a kid, for being short. Recently, I switched to a new doctor and had to be measured in a a new physical. When the nurse measured my height at 62 inches (roughly 5'2" with my shoes on), it was such a disappointment. I always thought I was 5'5, so either the school nurse lied to me years ago, or I'm shrinking. My height has always been an extremely sore spot with me, and a source of extreme jealousy when I look at my tall friends and family members. People think that I am nuts, but when you grow up short, you notice all of the social deference afford to tall/muscular men just based on their size. And when you're short, you are socialized to just naturally defer to the taller/bigger man. It seems that the taller/bigger man leads, be it in gym class, in social situations, or in government (if you look at presidential elections, the taller man usually wins with only one or two exceptions). And it seems the media plays into that, with the phrase "tall, dark, and handsome" often being the leading criteria for finding the ideal man.

I hope I'm not sounding like an overly sensitive, Napoleon-complex-laden jerk. These are things I've just noticed growing up and living life as a short man. Can anyone tell me that I'm not nuts, or am I just angry and bitter because of a bad spin on the old genetic wheel?

Can the tall guys on here tell me if it's true that tall guys look down on the short, metaphorically as well as physically? I've always thought so, but my tall friends insist that's all in my head. But how do the tall see the short as potential sex/life companions?

[hulkoutlvr]

Has anyone on here ever been bullied for being a little guy, and did that affect/influence your obsession with muscle or your decision to begin building your body up?

[Aielyn]

I won't claim to know what it's like to be bullied for being short or small, but I do know what it's like to be bullied.

At the end of the day, it's all about you, not the bully. You could be 4 foot tall, but if you carry yourself with confidence, actually have that self-confidence, bullies will actually avoid you. (EDIT: Note that this is something I only realised after I left school and had gained some real self-confidence - I wish I'd realised it earlier)

There's a quote in an episode of MASH that comes to mind. Hawkeye is talking to Radar, after Radar tries wearing elevator shoes to make him look taller. "There's height that people never see. Some guys are ten feet tall, only their bodies don't know it."

[hulkoutlvr]

I've never tried elevator shoes/lifts, because that looks so fake. After all, everyone who knows me knows how short I am, and shoes like that only make it look like I have a complex about my height. People who meet me for the first time might think I'm taller, but what happens if I ever have to be around them with my shoes off and they find out I'm 5'1"? What happens if a date thinks I'm taller because of my shoes and eventually I have to take those shoes off? Then they will think I lied. I just don't want to do that.

[Rarity]

Teenagers are especially vulnerable to over thinking because they are socially retarded. Srsly. So embrace your shortness and don't give a fuck. I grew up being bullied thanks to living in New Jersey with a bunch of privileged white kids. I'm Japanese, and let's face it, girls invented the finer points of school-based bullying. So being the odd one out just made me a target. It sucked but it let me focus on things by not having a real social life. And by the time high school came around, I somehow became a big enough bitch to not be messed with. THANK YOU, COMPETITIVE VIDEO GAMES! Though I was never bullied after I began high school so my problem remedied itself somehow.

Just work on your muscles or something. Short guys can look buff without as much effort as taller guys. Also, don't wear lifts. Work on other attributes such as your hair, eyebrows, body hair, skin complexion, fashion, etc. You can wear boots if you want to add an inch or two to your height, but men who wear lifts are just as bad as women who pad their bras. It's embarrassing when the secret's out and people will just think you're pathetic and/or a liar.


Though like I said, don't give a fuck. If you think about it, you will over analyze your height and it will seem like a bad thing. You will make up reasons to hate your height. And you just crush yourself without anybody doing anything. Or you can think about all the things you have going for you and bask in the glow of schadenfreude to feel better about your height.

[The Magus]

I'm 6' (5'11.5" actually) and I don't think I treat people differently based on their height, but science disagrees with me, and studies show that taller people do get preferential treatment on average. Wikipedia has an article.

So, what you're noticing is probably real. In social justice circles, those little comments or jabs are called "microaggressions", sometimes so small that those not on the receiving end don't even realize them, but they do add up. Research on microaggressions for sexism and racism have shown that they can affect peoples' performance on skills tests (they have people read an article before taking a test. In some versions of the article is a sentence about women being poor at math (which is not demonstrably true). The women who read this biased sentence then did more poorly at the math queswtions of the test than women who did not).

From the wiki article, some states (and Ontario here in Canada, woo!) have introduced legislation to deal with height discrimination, but it isn't common at all.

[boricua1]

I see and understand what you're saying. I'm about 5'6 and have a youthful appearance for a 31 year old lol. So easily overlooked in my past, but as I've gotten older I've made it apparent that what I've lacked in height I've made up in muscle . I almost feel like that's why there are a lot of short guys that are in competitive bodybuilding, and even some that aren't who want to increase mass to feel confident and seen.

That still doesn't offset the fact that society as a whole seems to favor a taller muscular man. Eh... you can do so much with in your own will to progress, and not hurt or harm the body. I think as time goes by we hope that society takes on a more inclusive frame of mind rather than an exclusive one.

It's a matter of be happying with who we are, having a hard fought committed drive, and in this case lift heavy and eat lots to get fucking massive!

[BigLittleTim]

You are not crazy or overly sensitive. Society does give preferential treatment to tall guys. This is true whether it's getting picked for teams in gym class, dating, or getting hired to be a stock broker. People doing the choosing almost always defer to taller men. Yes, it sucks.

There is a social experiment that had women choose which of three guys they wanted to go on a dat with. The three guys were actors and were only viewed through a one-way mirror. There was no actual interaction between the women and the eligible bachelors. Everything they "knew" about the three men was what they were told by the scientists running the experiment. Each man was just about equally handsome and dressed in casual clothing. The women ALWAYS picked one of the two tall men. When the perameters changed and the scientists made the two tall guys unemployed, ex convicts, low wage-earners, mean to their last girlfriend, etc. the women STILL picked a tall guy. They then started giving the short man all sorts of amazing personal qualities. He was a brain surgeon; he had an olympic medal in speed skating; he was an international philanthropist, raced speed boats, restored antique cars... They had to basically make the man impossibly perfect before the women would even consider, sometimes, choosing him. This is very bad news for short straight men. . I would like to repeat this experiment with gay men, though. "Pocket gays" are SO hot and always have been. A decent looking short man, walking into a bar, will have every eye on him. If the guy is buffed up a little I can assure you that man is going to have his pick of anyone he wants that night. Short, stocky, l'il guys are the absolute BALLS when it comes to gay dating. . The more extreme the body, the more desirable. I've often heard guys say that someone is hot, but neither tall OR short enough!

If I were you (and I am barely 5'-7" myself) I would concentrate on building the best body I could. You will have more men chasing you than you can imagine. I have worn elevator shoes myself, more as a lark, when I know I am NOT going home with anyone at the end of the night, and it IS fun to have guys treat you like a total alpha male. That said, I have never lacked for attention at my regular height. Personality, and reasonable muscle, trumps tall... at least in the gay world.

Keep your chin up and your chest out, little buddy. You will get your share of fun.

Cheers,

TIM

[niko777]

I don't really agree with the height having something to do with social influence.

I think that we should rather say that "beauty" has something to do with it. Let me explain.

To some people, being tall is part of what we call "beauty". To some others, it's not. Many things can be part of it: handsome face, square jaw, pale eyes, white teeth, nice lips, nice hair, confidence, nice voice, big hands, big feet, muscles, etc.

Now, picture this: a 6'3" guy that doesn't have a nice face and has no confidence VS a 5'7" guy who is very handsome and confident. I can GUARANTEE you that the second guy will have more social influence.

Take my little brother, for example. He's 20, 5'7", around 175 pounds (he's buff, but not fat at all), he has a very handsome face, nice pale brown eyes with hints of yellow in them, he has a killer confidence and dresses very well. I can assure you that when he enters a room, he becomes the center of attention. Ladies are CRAZY about him, and guys want to be him.

He's not tall at all. And nobody cares about that.

So I think that the real question should be: "How does beauty affect social influence?" Sure, height is PART of beauty, but there is so much more.

Anyway, that was my two cents.

Niko

[inm]

Niko, I've seen it in action too: At the gym where I train, there was this very short guy, very well developed. he actually competed as a bodybuilder. Anyway.. he nearly always came for his training session with at least one hot female. He was very outgoing, talked with anyone who cared to enter the small universe of him and his entourage.. all at ~5'2.

[niko777]

I'm not even surprised to read that, inm. I'm 5'11", and while I am somewhat goodlooking (from what people tell me, I'm not so sure about that myself), I only seem to really attract girls who are interested by what I have to say. I guess I attract intellectual girls more than the other ones.

However, my 5'7" overconfident brother attracts all kinds of people. Heck, 2 weeks ago, he went to give resumes around to find a job, and he got IMMEDIATELY hired by a clothes store. On the spot. They asked him a few questions and BAM! Hired! Oh, and he received calls in the following days from 5 different stores.

So yeah, confidence and good looks beat height BY FAR.

Niko

[hulkoutlvr]

How do you 'stand out in a crowd' when no one can see you? LOL

[hulkoutlvr]

I suppose I'm noticing and becoming more touchy about the height issue as I grow older. When I was a kid it didn't bother me because I had the anticipation of 'a growth spurt' and the hope that I wouldn't be short forever. My parents even told me I could grow up until I was 25, which we all know is not true. But after I passed 25 I began to realize that I'm never going to get any taller. And for whatever weird reason, instead of becoming more comfortable with it as I age, it's bugging me more, especially seeing so many of the social advantages that come just by virtue of being tall. At my job, I dispatch company cars, and I am told that I have to give a certain car to a certain person "for comfort reasons" because he's so tall being in a car designed for smaller people hurts his knees. I told my boss that I DO NOT feel sorry for him, lol.

I guess it's just a nit picky thing, and I may be overthinking it. I think the main reason it bugs me so much is that this is one thing about myself that I cannot change. I mean, I can diet and lose weight, I could eat more and lift and bulk up, I could dye my hair, and with enough money I could even change my face (although there's nothing really wrong with it). But 5'1 is something I'm stuck with, and it's not what I ordered. Imagine going to a restaurant and ordering prime rib, and the server comes out with a bolona and cheese sandwich and says, "this is all you're getting". That's kind of how I'm feeling about it these days.

[suma]

Hulkoutlvr
If it means anything to you I dream to have a real small bud, someone like 5'2-5'4 under 140lbs
Who adores the big daddy types

[Rarity]

May I see that study? The actual article, not the wikipedia article.

Rule #1 of research: NEVER USE WIKIPEDIA
Rule #2 of research: Make sure the research material makes sense

IE: Picking a bunch of high maintenance, young, and/or shallow women would automatically ruin the "experiment".

[hulkoutlvr]

Suma,

That does mean a lot in theory, but I live in a small rural area, where the men are men and the sheep are scared shitless. Unfortunately physical stature/size still seems to be a perceived defining quality of masculinity in this part of Daniel Boone country. But I was evening reading an online article in Psychology Today (online, published a few years ago) that said smaller men were more likely to be homosexual, but less likely to find potential mates. I think it was published in 2009. It also said that many smaller men they studied started to identify themselves as gay or bi after experiencing rejection due to their size.

[hulkoutlvr]

Whim,

Woman are not what I am trying to attract. And I'm not just talking about sexual attraction anyway.

Originally Posted by ★whim★

May I see that study? The actual article, not the wikipedia article.

Rule #1 of research: NEVER USE WIKIPEDIA
Rule #2 of research: Make sure the research material makes sense

IE: Picking a bunch of high maintenance, young, and/or shallow women would automatically ruin the "experiment".

[BigLittleTim]

Originally Posted by ★whim★

May I see that study? The actual article, not the wikipedia article.

Rule #1 of research: NEVER USE WIKIPEDIA
Rule #2 of research: Make sure the research material makes sense

IE: Picking a bunch of high maintenance, young, and/or shallow women would automatically ruin the "experiment".

The experiment I mentioned wasn't on the internet. I think I heard of it during Psych 101 back in college.

[BigLittleTim]

One can keep bemoaning the fact that one is short, or start doing something about what you can control: muscle size, hair, clothes, demeanor.

In the immortal words of Madonna: "Deal with it".

[cutlerfan]

I hope you can learn to accept and like yourself Hulkoutlvr but if you absolutely have to be taller there is a crazy surgery for lengthening your limbs. It is expensive and very painful but it works. Keep in mind it won't change your DNA but you would be taller. Search for terms like lengthening, surgery, and limbs. Here is a link to an article on it: http://theweek.com/article/index/224...-surgery-craze
I hope you feel better someday..with or without surgery.

[hulkoutlvr]

Cutlerfan, I've read a lot about that surgery (it should surprise no one that I've considered it), but it puts the patient, in many cases, at serious risk. If it doesn't go right, you could end up never being able to walk again. What would be the point of being taller if I couldn't stand up? No, thanks.

I didn't start this thread because I want people to feel sorry for me. I don't sit around all the time crying over the fact that I'm short. And I don't think about it all the time, but when I am put in the situation of having to be around tall guys, especially intimidating tall guys, it does creep up to bite me, that feeling of jealousy and envy. I know it's just a spin on the old genetic wheel, but I sometimes experience a feeling of being genetically short-changed, if you'll excuse the expression.

I only started this thread to see if anybody else had ever felt the same way or experienced bullying due to being "small". I didn't start it to garner pity or anger.

[spokenthunder]

Dear hulkoutlvr,

As a short man myself (5’3”), I just wanted to express how much I relate to your dilemma. I come from a short family, so I while I dreamed about getting taller as I grew up, it was never going to manifest into reality. No amount of wishing that things were better will actually make the future better, and people in general will always have the same opinion about short men.

I can also relate to your feelings of being treated as a child. I work with the public and I tend to get asked things like “When are you going to graduate from high school” (as I finish up my graduate degree at the moment). Or, one woman once asked me “do any adults work here?”, though at that time I was the one with the most experience in the building despite older coworkers. People sometimes tell me that it’ll be a compliment when I’m older, but it still can be depressing.

While I have heard of people having a particular preference for shorter men, I can’t say I’ve ever exactly found someone who found my lack of height charming, so I’m calling it an “urban myth” for now. Gay men are just as quick to judge people on their height (or lack of), too; I had a date with somebody once—he happened to be a tall, older, muscular fellow—and despite knowing my height in advance, he spent a good portion of the date making fun of my height in a particularly rude way. That, too, can be depressing.

Gay culture seems to revolve around physical appearance over personality (ergo, judging people by physical appearance before getting to know them), so it’s a shame to think that a gay man would rather date a guy who was tall but might not have anything going for him rather than a short guy who had great character, intelligence, et cetera. I don’t know. I digress.

I personally don’t like the idea of (over)compensating for lack of stature through over controllable means; I don’t find it to be a good solution to the problem. For instance, while people have told me that my height may work to my advantage in terms of bodybuilding, I don’t work out to make up for the fact that I’m short so that I may be considered desirable to other men. I’ve continued to work out because it’s what makes me happy, and if there are any positive side effects to it—say, being more attractive or confident, well, I won’t complain.

While I could agree with people who’ve said to be confident in yourself and people will find you attractive, I’d feel like a hypocrite for saying so, as I struggle with those sorts of things. I do believe that mentality has a lot to do with the dilemma, but it’s easier to suggest to be more confident and accept yourself than to actually overcome those feelings of inferiority. But, I believe it’s a fight worth pursuing; it’s something I’m fighting for in my own life.

I can hear somebody saying “TL; DR”. In short: I can relate to how you feel. While you can’t change your stature or people’s perceptions, you can change your own mentality with time and dedication. Overcompensating in other ways (such as bodybuilding) may alleviate the dilemma but only masks it in the long run. Work out or whatever because it makes you happy, not so other people will like you better (but that might be a separate tangent).

If you ever need someone to talk to about this, I’m here for you, friend.

[hulkoutlvr]

Thank you . People tell me all the time that I can make up for my height in other ways. But that's the point. I shouldn't have to "make up" for anything. And just in case people might tell me that it's more in my head than people actually noticing it, they DO notice it, and remind me of it, all the time.

[cutlerfan]

Sorry Hulkoutlvr, I wasn't aiming to offer pity. I have a long history of being bullied but it didn't start out based on my size. I was fat from 6th through 12th grade and bullied from 3rd grade on. I was teased and harassed because I was TOO big i.e.- Fat. I only wanted to encourage you. It is never any easy journey when dealing with body issues. I hope you take encouragement when you do need it. Peace!

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by BigLittleTim

The experiment I mentioned wasn't on the internet. I think I heard of it during Psych 101 back in college.

There have also been studies done regarding how height influences the workplace environment. Taller men consistently get paid more and promoted faster than even their average height counterparts with comparable skill sets.

Symmetrical faces pack a similar punch. Which I suppose explains Tom Cruise. A little.

Basically getting a degree in sociology meant accepting the fact that I would never be able to coast through life on my looks.

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by hulkoutlvr

My parents even told me I could grow up until I was 25, which we all know is not true. But after I passed 25 I began to realize that I'm never going to get any taller.

I was the same height from 8th grade into adulthood, then at thirty I shot up three inches for no apparent reason.

I wouldn't recommend it. It was painful and awkward and I kept bumping into stuff. And I grew so fast that my muscles freaked out and tried to wrench everything back into place, which resulted in a mild case of thoracic scoliosis. After all's said and done, I still miss being 5'4".

Also, shorter people have longer life expectancies, so there are benefits.

[burlemarx]

Originally Posted by Rowan

Symmetrical faces pack a similar punch. Which I suppose explains Tom Cruise. A little.

"A little less talk, a little more do
A little more me, a little less you
Baby at the end of the day
A little bit goes a long way"

- Tom Cruise to Nicole, on their wedding night

[hulkoutlvr]

I guess if Tom Cruise can get the job done, anybody can.

[burlemarx]

I want to take a few minutes to weigh in on this thread. I've talked privately to Hulkoutlvr numerous times about his height issues. I will, of course, never understand how a short man feels in Today's World because I am 6'1" -- the same way I'll never understand how a black man or an asian man feels in Today's World.

I think short STRAIGHT men have a difficult road because straight culture is rife with all these unspoken "rules" for being part of that team. Be tall, have a good job, marry a pretty woman, etc. The dynamic of straight culture is that males are tall and strong, and they protect the females, which are small and fragile. This is biologically ingrained over thousands of years of human evolution and this thread posted numerous examples, studies, etc, about different manifestations of the preference for tall men in the straight world.

BUT! Hulkoutlvr is gay. And what he and other short gay men need to realize is that there is a huge difference between the gay world and the straight world when it comes to height preferences. Someone earlier (i think BigLittleTim?) posted that short men often command attention in gay bars. This is absolutely true. A couple years ago I dated a guy approximately my height (5'11"?) and build (240ish lbs) and at one point in the relationship, we confessed that we both preferred short men 5'6 or under (after we broke up, we joked that the reason was because we were both too tall for the other).

I would say that almost all of my real-life gay male friends are drawn to guys their height or shorter, and probably 1 out of 10 have a preference for a partner considerably shorter, just like me and my ex do. I know I'm just one example, but (aside from Hulkoutlvr himself) I have no gay male friends who have explicitly stated a preference for men their height or taller.

Anyway, the point of all this rambling is that, just from my own observations, short gay men dont have it as bad as they'd like to think; they definitely do not have it as bad as short straight men.

Furthermore, I would also like to say that short gay men are just as prone to prejudice and stereotyping as the tall straight men they claim discriminate against them. Despite my height and physical size, I am a pretty quiet, mousy and relatively submissive person (I despise the term "gentle giant" but I guess for argument's sake, you could describe me as such). And yet time and time again, I am expected to act as a dominant, aggressive, super-macho alpha male type personality, simply based on my size. And who expects me to act this way? Short men, of course. Hypocrisy much?

So, it's a two-way street. Who we are on the outside does not always match who we are on the inside, and this goes for guys of all heights and sizes. Making snap judgments and/or expectations based on another person's body is the path of least resistance, and we're all prone to doing so. So where does a short gay man go from there? As other people posted, accepting yourself and learning to live a life of self-confidence is usually a ticket to a happy life.

Someone else posted that his short brother is the life of every party because he has this amazing personality. Well, back when I was in high school, the "big man on campus" at my school was a guy named Kevin who went completely bald by age 17 due to extreme male pattern baldness. On top of that, he had a terrible stutter. He could not speak a single sentence without stuttering. And yet he was voted Prom King. I'm not kidding. FUCKING PROM KING. Why? Because he was the most confident, comfortable-with-himself person in the world. He accepted his baldness and his stutter, and learned to joke about the hand that life had dealt him. I was never friends with Kevin but he always served as a good example of a guy who learned to accept his fate with grace and dignity and confidence.

One of the tenets of being confident with yourself/able to accept your life the way it is, is to deal with feelings of envy: You see someone taller, sexier, bigger, smarter, richer, etc, and you subconsciously decide "yes, that is better; being Him would be better." That being said, I will repost my favorite advice column from Carolyn Hax, who posted the best-ever piece of advice I can think in terms of learning to deal with envy and jealousy.

Hi, Carolyn:

My younger sister and I are close, though we weren't always. Recently she started dating a man that she will likely marry. Because of his position and family's connections, she is getting to enjoy exciting, fun events that few people get to participate in. I am beginning to feel the little twinges of jealousy, not because I don't want her doing these things but because I would love to be enjoying these things with her.

I am hyper-aware of jealousy toward her because she was chronically ill when we were young and didn't excel as I did at school and sports. Consequently, my parents spent a lot more time and energy on her. While the jealousy that stemmed from this is long past, it destroyed our relationship for years. I would never let it get that far, but I don't know how to turn it off.

For what it's worth, I'm pretty satisfied in life overall, but sad that she gets to have all these exciting experiences while I work, sleep, eat, repeat. I don't want to be this jealous person! Is there any magic to fighting off the green-eyed monster? My sister absolutely deserves the best and that includes my attitude toward her.

- Sniveling sib

Dear Sniveling:

Given your honesty, I wish I had some magic. But what I'm proposing is anti-magic: logical thinking.

Longing for something that someone else has -- be it the exclusive events your sister now enjoys, or someone's great car or house or job or mate -- involves an unconscious bit of truth-doctoring. You witness something desirable, you imagine it as part of your life, and decide, yes, things would be better that way. We're cafeteria thinkers: You're imagining you and your life, plus her perks.

But with reality, we can't pick and choose. To have what your sister has now, you'd need to be your sister. It's not just about her guy and her fabu parties; you'd need to have her childhood, her illness, her overcompensating parents, everything. Good and bad. Every twist in her path brought her here.

So when you feel yourself starting to covet something, force yourself to think bigger. Want your friend's gorgeous house? Sure! But I hope you also want that friend's spouse, family, job, education, politics, faith, appearance, angels, demons, everything, because that's what your friend has.

Chances are, in weighing someone you envy as a whole package deal, you're going to hit something you don't want -- or, just something of yours you wouldn't want to give up. Remember, if you really were Brad or Angelina, that means wiping out your loved ones, your childhood, your accomplishments, your finest hours, your first kiss, everything.

You didn't wind up in a "work, sleep, eat, repeat" pattern by accident. You made deliberate moves that took you there, going after some things and avoiding others.

If, upon reflection, the reasoning behind your choices is still sound, then own it -- that's your Envy-B-Gone.

And if the reasoning seems faulty now -- if you can go through every item in another's life and still think, "Yup, rather have that" -- then it's time for a ruthless inventory of your options and attitudes, with an eye to judicious change. Even "exciting, fun events" will be hollow if your foundation is hollow, too.

[Mdlftr]

Burlemax,
Excellent contribution!

This is especially relevant in a forum devoted to changing one's body by becoming big and strong!

"I love/wanna have/am working towards getting/want to go out with somewho has....BIG MUSCLES!!"

Are we all driving ourselves crazy with this fetish? Maybe just a bit!

Mdlftr
P.S., FWIW, I'm straight, tall and formerly very skinny. Over years of working out, I've built myself up to 210# at 6'3" fairly cut, but I still don't think I'm nearly big enough! Straight guys get pretty obssessed over how they "measure up" also. The pressure from society to "be buff and stay buff" is getting worse for guys all the time. Not moaning about it, it's just more pervasive than it's ever been. Good clothes, a good job, education and a career are all still collectively more important than a hot body, but that first look is what people focus on! To Hulkoutlvr: Just remember, you can look good at any size or shape or age. You just have to realize what works for you and go for it. Give yourself a goal to shoot for, exercise wisely and take steps towards doing it. Once you start actually doing something for yourself, such as working out on a program with your own goals in mind, it's amazing how everyone else's "hot bods" become secondary.

Remember, you can control yourself and how you look to a certain extent. You can't control anyone else or their reaction to you!

Good luck!

Mdlftr

[burlemarx]

i know. i posted several months ago about the slippery slope that is the Muscle Growth Fetish; how hard it is to either become a huge muscle monster in real life, or bag one as a boyfriend or lover. in fact, i will admit that a few weeks ago i was a little bit rough with Hulkoutlvr -- he was trying to compliment my body, but it was hard for me to accept his compliments because i literally Photoshopped my body next to a professional bodybuilder's body for the sole purpose of pointing out my flaws and how i'm Not Good Enough. apologies to you again Hulkoutlvr.

it's important for all of us to occasionally take a step back and just love ourselves the way we are. and not just you Shorties out there. this is something i myself need to work on. i need to remind myself of the simple fact that i've gained 100lbs of muscle since 1999, and that is something to be damn proud of -- even if i technically still dont look like a pro bodybuilder.

"Sometimes it feels like we?re all living in some kind of prison, and the crime is how much we hate ourselves. But it?s good to get dressed up every once in awhile and admit the truth- that when you look really closely, people are so strange and so complicated that they?re actually beautiful. Possibly even me."

- Angela Chase, My So-Called Life

My So-Called Life 1x05 (Enigma: Return to Innocence) - YouTube

[hulkoutlvr]

Burlemarx, just remember, it is our so-called "flaws" that make us unique, distinctive, and beautiful.

100 pounds of muscle is something you can take great pride in, even if you feel you are a work in progress. Whenever I evaluate myself, and you and I have discussed how sometimes I tend to evaluate myself harshly, I try very hard to look at how far I have come, and not to look at the distance that is left to go. None of us will ever be where we want to be, most likely. But what you have done with yourself is to be commended, simply by virtue of the dedication and hard work you have put in to acheive your success.

Originally Posted by burlemarx

i know. i posted several months ago about the slippery slope that is the Muscle Growth Fetish; how hard it is to either become a huge muscle monster in real life, or bag one as a boyfriend or lover. in fact, i will admit that a few weeks ago i was a little bit rough with Hulkoutlvr -- he was trying to compliment my body, but it was hard for me to accept his compliments because i literally Photoshopped my body next to a professional bodybuilder's body for the sole purpose of pointing out my flaws and how i'm Not Good Enough. apologies to you again Hulkoutlvr.

it's important for all of us to occasionally take a step back and just love ourselves the way we are. and not just you Shorties out there. this is something i myself need to work on. i need to remind myself of the simple fact that i've gained 100lbs of muscle since 1999, and that is something to be damn proud of -- even if i technically still dont look like a pro bodybuilder.

"Sometimes it feels like we?re all living in some kind of prison, and the crime is how much we hate ourselves. But it?s good to get dressed up every once in awhile and admit the truth- that when you look really closely, people are so strange and so complicated that they?re actually beautiful. Possibly even me."

- Angela Chase, My So-Called Life

My So-Called Life 1x05 (Enigma: Return to Innocence) - YouTube

[HarbieBoys]

I'm a 5'11" guy, muscular build, 235#, mid-40's. I love much shorter guys, especially if they had a trim or muscular body. And if they have facial hair as well, that's a real bonus. I guess that opposites can attract...

[jtc208]

Height discrimination is very real and even if it manifests itself in subtle ways, it's an incredibly powerful force that can knock down a guy's confidence down and make him feel like the whole world is against them. I'm here to add to the voices already within this post saying that's NOT the case. I'm 6'0" and I LOVE shorter dudes. Honestly there aren't enough short guys around! My heart always leaps when I see a hot short guy, especially if he's confident in his body! There's nothing hotter than confidence.

Hulkoutlvr, we all enjoy the idea of muscle growth and that's why we're here. I definitely advocate working out and building your body to look however you think it looks the hottest. When you think your body's looking good, you unconsciously broadcast that emotion to the world and people can tell. When you focus your thoughts on negative feelings like resentment, jealousy and anger about your height, that ALSO comes across to other people and it's not a very open, inviting attitude. I'm not saying those emotions are invalid, because the most definitely are. But you have a choice to either dwell on them, or focus on the things you like about yourself, and what you like about being alive.

Finally, I HIGHLY recommend moving to the big city. I guarantee your entire perspective will change when you remove yourself from a context where you're surrounded by straight men, and put yourself in a place where there are all kinds of gay dudes, even ones like me who go bananas for short guys! When you get to Chicago, let me know!!

[BigLittleTim]

An invitation to all short men to become gay:

Message for Short Guys... - YouTube

[BigLittleTim]

I've posted this elsewhere, but it does highlight the benefits of being short and gay (porn star) as well as the drawbacks (no capri pants).

Big Gay Vs. Little Gay! - YouTube