State of the Forum

[Xyggurat]

So, it feels like things have been in a slump on MGS lately. Is it just me? A good number of formerly prolific authors have either left or tapered off, and while there have certainly been some gems over the last few months, it seems like they've been fewer and farther between.

Some questions:

Has the forum been in a bit of a trough lately, or is it just me?

If it has, what can we do to encourage more people to post stories of quality?

If people aren't posting here, where are they posting?

Will there ever be another muscle theft tale here? (Okay, that one's mostly just my own wishful wondering.)

Discuss!

-X-

[V.R.Goh]

I can't speak for everyone, but life has been interfering with my writing lately. When I get the itch to write for this forum (and I can get it out without losing interest post-masturbation), I will post it. Right now, I have a story in the works that, while it is not muscle theft (sorry, X), it will be expansive and have the necessary muscle growth that people here crave.

[Londonboy]

Sorry, xyggurat, that my recent writing has not met up to your standards. I'm a little hurt that you say a "good number of formerly prolific authors" have left the site. I thought I was trying my best to contribute. I'm also sorry that my contribution doesn't meet your needs. It saddens me to hear that you think the Forum has been in a "bit of a trough" lately when I've been adding stories weekly. I guess I don't count. That saddens me a lot. Maybe it is your opinion that I should post somewhere else, too. I am very saddened by your post.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by Londonboy

Sorry, xyggurat, that my recent writing has not met up to your standards. I'm a little hurt that you say a "good number of formerly prolific authors" have left the site. I thought I was trying my best to contribute. I'm also sorry that my contribution doesn't meet your needs. It saddens me to hear that you think the Forum has been in a "bit of a trough" lately when I've been adding stories weekly. I guess I don't count. That saddens me a lot. Maybe it is your opinion that I should post somewhere else, too. I am very saddened by your post.

OH Londonboy, NO!!! HE didn't mean YOU!

Xyggurat, you apologize to Londonboy RIGHT NOW!

(You hurt his feelings!)

Mdlftr

[Londonboy]

No feelings hurt, sorry if I gave that impression (and thank you Mdlftr). I'm just sad for Xyggurat. No apologies needed. Really. I'm not a drama queen - well, not that much, anyway.

[suma]

Well as for me, I don't peruse the stories much unless I get a must read comment.
I'm here mostly for the pics, morphs and vids. And I'd agree that forum posts and activity has tappered off some, and some used to be prolific posters are gone all torgether, Deetrakt for one comes to mind.

My home internet has been down for a while, so that's whats been slowing me down.

Don't know what else to say, as with all things people get bored and move on to other things I guess?

[Yachirobi]

Skipping personal slights, whether intended or unintended, I do have an issue with the muscle worship stuff that gets posted here. Don't get me wrong, I like to look at it, but when I come to musclegrowth.org, I don't want to see the stuff that I get everyday on my Tumblr dash.

I will be the first one to say that it is damn hard to find good muscle growth anything out there, especially if you're looking for MG that doesn't involve muscle-women, but I think this board might give the wrong impression to someone who is looking for vanilla muscle stuff or general bodybuilding info. I also know that there are active contributers to this board who have been posting such materials just so that there's something here to look at. I genuinely appreciate their posts, but I think we need to set up child-boards for non-MG content. Banning muscle-worship hasn't worked in the past and I think it's the wrong approach anyway, but it needs to be put in it's own category to give the spotlight back to muscle-growth.

Another thing that I've tried to do is actively recruit new members. I hope the rest of you do the same whenever you come across someone with the fetish. I don't know how many people I've made into active members (if any) but I have come across more than a few people who have never heard of this site. That is shocking! I've run into at least three people on F-List, the sexy role play site, who are totally into growth but didn't know about the board or the great authors we host here. I know some of you are active on FMG sites or more mainstream (but gay/sex friendly) bodybuilding boards. I bet there are kindred spirits there who would love to find this site but don't realize that it exists. We need to help them find us.

[Rarity]

Originally Posted by Xyggurat

Has the forum been in a bit of a trough lately, or is it just me?

It's just you. Your expectations are too high.

Originally Posted by Xyggurat

If it has, what can we do to encourage more people to post stories of quality?

Unintentional or intentional rudeness of that question aside, again, your expectations are too high. Remember, this stuff here is of fanfic quality. In other words, not novel worthy but not dull either. I have seen some good stories content wise. So my guess is the stories don't feature what you like and that's why you assume there haven't been any "gems" as you put it.

Originally Posted by Xyggurat

If people aren't posting here, where are they posting?

Given the way the Internet has evolved, it's very likely that people get their fix elsewhere or simply stopped caring. People like the stories but people like pictures more. So I'd imagine the people who come here to jerk it just go to tumblr or blogspot instead. While us story readers stay here and. . . Read stories.

Furaffinity has also stolen a large group of muscle lovers since that sight offers "new' quality musclemen every single day. If you can get over the animal qualities, that is.

[Xyggurat]

Originally Posted by Londonboy

Sorry, xyggurat, that my recent writing has not met up to your standards. I'm a little hurt that you say a "good number of formerly prolific authors" have left the site. I thought I was trying my best to contribute. I'm also sorry that my contribution doesn't meet your needs. It saddens me to hear that you think the Forum has been in a "bit of a trough" lately when I've been adding stories weekly. I guess I don't count. That saddens me a lot. Maybe it is your opinion that I should post somewhere else, too. I am very saddened by your post.

Wow.

-X-

P.S. No, really, wow.

P.P.S. Okay, let's go in to this one. If I say "The climate in California is cooler this year than it was last year" it does not necessarily follow that the climate in Washington is also cooler than it was last year.

Other people being gone has nothing to do with you or your presence here.

Originally Posted by Rarity

Unintentional or intentional rudeness of that question aside, again, your expectations are too high.

Can you not be one of those people who throws out oblique digs on the Internet? My aims weren't petty. They were to garner what other people think of the forum. I didn't say "the authors here suck" but rather, "how do we get more good ones to post good stories?"

Aaand again, wow.

[Aardvark2]

Originally Posted by Rarity

Unintentional or intentional rudeness of that question aside, again, your expectations are too high. Remember, this stuff here is of fanfic quality. In other words, not novel worthy but not dull either. I have seen some good stories content wise. So my guess is the stories don't feature what you like and that's why you assume there haven't been any "gems" as you put it.

How dare you call my writing fanfic. I'M SORRY YOU THINK MY WRITING IS FANFIC!

Just kidding. See how things can get misconstrued, though?

In response to the original question posed: X, it is not just you. I feel the same way. And I'm glad someone finally mentioned it, because I've been talking about it with others for quite some time. When I first started coming here a decade ago, it was a muscle-growth feast, with amazing works of transformation being posted daily. Not all of it was my cup of tea...muscle theft, body swap - eh, not my thing. But there was a ton of stuff that really did it for me. If I'm recalling correctly, about one or two stories were posted a day. They were usually pretty short, too, and they followed a very basic formula that I STILL try to adhere to with my own writing:

1) introduce some characters that need improvement.
2) grow/change the motherfuckin' shit out of them.
3) Uh…that's it.

Even though this is officially dubbed the male muscle growth forum, not just the male muscle forum, the stories here now are mostly not growth-related, and I've almost stopped reading them altogether. I rely on my contacts and friends here to tip me off when there's something posted that's up my alley, and when I do find something I enjoy, I usually comment on it, or send a PM, to encourage the author. What this place has become is a repository for bodybuilding stories. If I had a dime for every time I clicked open a thread and saw that the story was just about a guy who is already huge and buff, I'd…well, I wouldn't be rich, but I could probably pay my rent for the month.

I think there should be two sub-forums: growth/transformation stories, and bodybuilder/muscle stories. There is a big difference between these two. "Sherman was 98-pound shrimp until he found the magical ring at the library booksale blah blah" is a world away from "Jeff was 18 and weighed 290 pounds of solid muscle and all the guys in his dorm worshipped him, the end."

I know why some authors have left - I've been in contact with a few. It is not my place to speak for them individually, but I know a lot of them felt underappreciated or were just bled dry of creativity. It can be exhausting to post a story and then get 15 comments demanding a sequel to it, and then to have that thread bumped later when you're just not writing fast enough. Some of these authors are posting in other forums like the NCMC, but really, for the most part, a lot of them have just vanished (or so I assume…you never know who's lurking under a different screenname). There's been a big decline in MG/AP stories over the past few years, and I can't really explain why. Hypno has exploded, TG is everywhere, Animal/Inanimate is too. As Rarity said, the majority of the MG stuff I find now is furry-related, which is an instant boner killer for me.

The media forum suffers from much of the same quantity/quality issue. People got tired of waiting for a growth-related quick to appear, even if it's just a YouTube before & after, so they started posting pictures of bodybuilders. Now, don't get me wrong, I love bodybuilders. My stories are full of 'em, and I'm trying to be one myself. But a picture of a bodybuilder is not muscle growth. And we don't need a new thread for every picture. Once again, I think a couple sub-forums would be swell: muscle growth media, and, well, everything else.

For some reason, people get super-sensitive here about moderation, but all the best forums I'm on in general - not just TF-related - have a couple mods prowling around who move threads to the correct forums, put people gently in check if they're straying from topic, etc. Just a thought. People freak about that shit here though. Again, I cannot for the life of me explain why. I do understand that fetishes are sensitive things inherently…

Usually, when someone is complaining that there aren't enough stories to their liking on a forum, they get a bunch of snippy replies that boil down to, "WELL, WHY DON'T YOU WRITE SOME?" Well, this time, I'm the one complaining, and I have written a shitload. My sensibilities and style were molded by the greats - Texzilla, O, Absman, etc - authors who explored the bodily sensation of muscles growing, along with the mental tribulations that come with it. They talked about masculinity and manhood developing, not just existing, and it was something I really related to as I became a man myself. I would love it if I inspired more authors (I've gotten PMs from a few - thanks guys!). Hell, I'd love it if an author brazenly copied me, because then there'd be some stories that I know would be in my vein that I finally wouldn't know the ending to. It's hard to be surprised by a twist when you wrote it yourself.

Maybe I'm just a freak - I mean, I know it's not normal for a 15-year-old to start writing fetish porn that parallels his own puberty. I've been around for so long that people think I'm old, when I am in fact quite a young man. But on this forum, I'm a grizzled old dog of a writer, and I see myself as a representative of the old guard. Maybe my shit's a little outdated now. A lot of people seem to just want to read hypno and worship, not transformation, but I know there's still a market for me out there, because God knows whenever I post a story, my inbox fills the fuck up. (And I'm not complaining about that - thank you for your appreciation, guys. It's what keeps me on here.) People still want to read about guys becoming jocks, or bodybuilders, or whatever. I firmly believe that.

To swing back to X's question, I say encourage the writers that you like - tell them you love their work. Hell, tell them it made you shoot...I always get a real kick out of that. Just be appreciative. No one's getting paid here. (If they ARE getting paid, then they'll probably leave. C'est la vie.) And, if you are the type who likes to chat with new authors on other forums, sure, give them an invite over here.

So, anyway, yeah. Sub-forums. Put the 'G' back in 'MMG.' Yadda yadda. If I angered some of y'all, then I'm probably saying something you don't want to hear. Yell at me if you like. Try it. I've been here for a zillion years and I've probably been through worse anyway. I write what I want to read, and I stand firm in that. And I say, for all the shit I give it, I love this place and I'm grateful for it, and grateful that it's free. Thank you to flexodus and co. for this gift.

[muscl4life]

I have been writing my stories and posting them here for many years, and I have seen new writers rising and vanishing (Ok, now I feel old!), it is something understandable.

I agree that not all stories that have been recently posted here are of my personal taste, but we are not here to judge other people's work with the authority of some literature or arts critics. The stories and artwork (pic/morphs/videos) posted here are meant to make people hot, to get them to jerk off and to exercise their fantasies.

Let's just remember that this forum didn't start out like this, there used to be email chains, and scattered groups featuring muscle growth stories, then Aphex created the MGS site and we eventually got to the Evolution Forum.

Change is a big part of life, including internet life. Facebook, twitter and so many other social media venues have strong impact for imediate response. Stories can't be told in 140 characters or less, morphs take time to be made, drawings need time to be sketched, cleaned and painted, and patience only grows smaller.

I have posted some stories from the end of last year and the beggining of the current one, and I am very proud of them, even if they don't meet your quality standards, I still think I have been contributing to the forum within my capabilities.

New members are always welcome and encouraged to share their fantasies. I don't mind when people want to read a sequel of story, or when someone bumps an unfinished story of mine, curious to know what happened. This is part of the idea of the forum.

Maybe I just like to see the good side of things, but truth is, this forum is changing, evolving, but in any case, I'll be still here writing my muscle growth stories.

I have added new story plots on the continuous section, but no one seems to care, collaboration is not a strong fort? of some members, they just want to read new exciting and formidable stories that feature exactly their fantasies, within their own tastes and still needs to be updated whenever they feel horny.

So, in my opinion, people should contribute more to the forum, but that doesn't mean we don't have something which is already fantastic, because for many years I felt my thing for growing muscles was something from my crazy mind.

Sharing our passions about male muscle growth is the most important.

[Yachirobi]

Aardvark inadvertently reminded me of this: we could use the furry people too. (Yes, yes, Aard, I know it's a boner killer for you and I understand why.) While we might need to do child-boards for that too if it becomes prolific, we've already had some furry stories and art posted here. I think pulling those people into the board will still strengthen us and I'm sure some of those artists and writers would happilly do non-furry work, but I think some regular visitors wouldn't be bugged by the occasional animal head. We don't have a rule for or against the stuff and, as I said, we can make separate areas for it if/when it becomes a distraction.

I say this because, while furry stories don't interest me, I have no problem with (and get off on a lot of) furry art. I've know a lot of other board members feel the same way. A lot of the transformations, especially the human-to-anthro ones, and specifically relevant to many member's interests, even though they've moved on to more mainstream MG tastes... as if there is such a thing.

[Aardvark2]

Originally Posted by muscl4life

Sharing our passions about male muscle growth is the most important.

This is exactly my point, though. It feels to me like the majority of stuff on here now is not growth-related at all.

And of course it's fine with me when people ask for a sequel or bump an old thread of mine. I was just saying that the things people have said to me, including PMs calling me lazy and whatnot, are the same kind of things that have chased some other very good authors away. That's all.

And I disagree vehemently about the furries. They have their own forums, while this is the only one specifically for MG that I know about. That's all I will say.

[falseyedee]

i'd like to thank xyggurat for raising the issue. i have been around this site for a while...a long while...and have noticed that the writing comes in waves. writing good muscle growth fiction is not easy. making good morphs or drawings is not easy. finding before & after pictures of bodybuilders is time consuming.

i've been writing muscle fiction for more than 20 years and have been posting it to the internet for about 20 years. my own creativity comes in waves. i've gone through periods where i was compelled to write 3,000 to 4,000 words a day of muscle stories. and i've gone through periods where i haven't written anything for months. my brain isn't made to do only one thing. and when i do post to this forum, i want to make sure it is at least as good as my previous efforts to maintain whatever regard i have in the forum's eyes.

as for the changes in the forum, personally i think it is generational. the following is a gross generalization, but i think as that it stands up: us older folks grew up on stories, written stories. the younger folks grew up on video games, tv and internet snippets. the younger ones are, in general, more interested in images, particularly videos. and the shift in the balance of content here reflects that.

that isn't a bad thing. it's just a result of the change in the culture.

similarly, and speaking in just as grand a generalization, those of use who are in an older, more repressed gay generation grew up idolizing different "types": jocks, cowboys, motor bike guys, muscle guys, et. al. the chances of meeting another gay person was less likely and more difficult. whereas the younger gay generation has grown up in a much more open and accepting culture and can idolize anybody and talk about being gay to their friends and can live a normal dating life with expectations of meeting "mr. right" and even marrying him! that was NOT an option when i was growing up and it still startles me to see gay marriages. it is a wonderful thing.

but our generations look at sex and being out differently. and the way we document that life is different.

i agree that muscle growth is the main theme of this board, but i don't mind the other variations. i'm happy there are writers and artists and fishermen of videos out there creating and finding all the content and keeping this board a lively and supportive place for all of us.

sorry if i've been rambling, it comes with old age. LOL.

[Xyggurat]

I think maybe one solution to the "jack-in-the-box" problem (clicking on a story, realizing midway through that it's not what you're looking for at all) is to implement a very simple story tagging radial button for the Stories section. We could easily have something along the lines of...

Story Theme:

* Muscle Growth
* Muscle Worship
* Muscle Theft

etc.

I agree, not every story is for every person. That doesn't mean they're necessarily worthless or even not good.

-X-

[BigLittleTim]

I've enjoyed many stories and images here on Evolution Forum, but what really captures my attention are the REAL LIFE muscle transformations members post of their own growth, or of someone they know. I always scan the New Posts section to see if anyone has updated or added a new thread telling us a personal anecdote of how big they're getting, outgrowing their shirts, meeting old friends who are dumbfounded, and generally freaking everyone out with their newfound size and power. It seems that most of this group have either left the forum or are no longer posting.

BIG TIM

[Rarity]

Originally Posted by Xyggurat

Can you not be one of those people who throws out oblique digs on the Internet? My aims weren't petty. They were to garner what other people think of the forum. I didn't say "the authors here suck" but rather, "how do we get more good ones to post good stories?"

Hence "or unintentional" being used. Which is like saying "someone can see that as being rude but it wasn't intentional."

[Raymansundance]

I agree that younger people tend to be more visual but I hope the stories continue. Having a thing for muscle, I have had to rely on the stories and my imagination to get the full effect, which I'm happy for. I'm on the younger side and I love to see the different stories and ideas these talented authors have to offer. Keep up the good work.

[raven79]

I understand all of your points on this matter, but don't you think it is possible that some of these people from a decade ago either lost interest in this stuff or may not even be alive anymore. I remember how the forum was when I joined and it was quite different from now, but that is because of the new generation of muscle fetishists. They are not used to waiting on things to be finished because they basically grew up with the technology we have now. My generation was more into the muscle growth aspect then they are.

We enjoyed all of those flash, quicktime, and realplayer morphs from that time. They don't even know what you are talking about when you talk to the newer members. This isn't 2003 anymore and times change. The social networks have changed the landscape.

I will admit I am one of the biggest offenders of posting videos of bodybuilders, but I also want to keep things rolling on the forum too. There isn't a lot of activity from many on the forum. How many members do we have here?

As for writing stories, it is tough to be creative as some have said. You can't just write one overnight and post it the next day. I just worked on one that took nearly a week to complete because I didn't want to rush it. I have done that before and it comes off as being 'awful' or 'passable' as some have PM'ed me. Yes, there are actually guys that have said those things to me. There are a lot of guys that want immediate satisfaction and think you can just put one out every week, well it doesn't happen that way with me anymore.

[Mdlftr]

I've written a few stories over the years, and I have to admit that I've gotten more out of the forum, content-wise, than I've put in. I agree with the majority of posters here that "lately" the forum seems to be in a rut of "muscle worship" rather than "muscle growth" stories.

Maybe it's the desire for a quick cut-to-the-chase climax (both on the page and in your lap) that motivates some authors to start with the "290-pound teenager with 21 inch arms, a 60-inch chest and a donkey dick." So. where do you go from there?

I find that I have a hard time writing a story when I realize that my personal turn ons (muscle growth, unwitting at first,then overwhelming) are repetitious, and, frankly, kind of boring in a story. How many times can I describe the surging, swelling excitement of growth and not put myself to sleep? It's the stories that go beyond the trophes that stick in my mind: Londonboy's story about the wimpy, fey, flamer that becomes a huge muscle man after getting a secret shot and he STILL is just as effeminate as ever! Funny and unexpected.

I'll admit I'm trying to think of some story lines that have a bit more creativity. Maybe the idea of "going shorter" is the way to do it.

Mdlftr

[RPM]

X,

I don't really read the story section, so I can't say for certain there.

But I do check the media section, and I've watched everything you're observing play out there over the last year or two.

As some newer posters have steadily pushed the forum off-topic, a lot of the on-topic posters appear to have been pushed away as well. They still come out on occasion when a relevant post shows up, but even those can be so few and far between that they get missed. Some former posters have even said it's not worth the hassle of sorting through the forum. I can understand their irritation.

Some people are just continuously missing the point of the forum, and no amount of 0-reply threads seem to get through to them. Others just spam with no regard for the forum's ambition and no intention of truly interacting with the community.

As it stands, the forum has lost that unique edge that made it stand out among all others, and now there's almost nothing to tell it apart from every other muscle & fitness media forum or blog.

It could reacquire its exclusive spot, but that would mean purging a lot of the off-topic posts. And I doubt there's enough active mods up for a task like that.

[Curiosity]

As a -relatively- new member on this forum, I have a mixed perspective. I can understand and respect that the point of the Evolution Forum was always muscle growth, but I also quite enjoy a lot of the other posts that would fall under muscle for muscle's sake instead of for growth's sake. I certainly can't speak to what the character of the site was in 2003, but it seems to me that now there wouldn't be enough growth content to fill all the boards. There may be plenty of great muscle growth drawings and art out there to post, but as far as I can tell, new growth videos are few and far between.

At the same time, I do agree that there is a lot of overposting going on, particularly of the same content in multiple new threads within days of each other, of guys who are entirely too young to be posted on a muscle fetish site, and of different threads for each new video of the same guy. Some regulation and/or constructive kicking-ass-into-line could definitely help with some of the problems. (General note: remember where you put a guy, so we don't have 9 threads for your "beastly" 16 year old. Or none. None would be good too.) Maybe some paring down is in order too, or some redistributing, so less sifting is required to determine growth from just muscle.

I agree with falseyedee that has sort of evolved in a new direction from where it must have been a few years ago, and I think there is good and bad to it. There's plenty of content that doesn't fit anywhere near a muscle growth theme, or is just age inappropriate (see above rant), but there is also a lot of good in the non-growth muscle posts. I like that I can rely on this forum to introduce me to bodybuilders I didn't know existed, and to supply me with more hot guys than I would ever know what to do with. I like that this site, even with its flaws, is such an active community. I've been on other forums that feel like dead airspace because you'll get one post a day, or even one a week. I come to this site almost everyday, and there is always new content and discussion. I think a good deal of that would dwindle if the site were put back to growth only.

[/\/\usclekid]

I don't know exactly how old this forum is. My memory says it started in 1996. I found the forum in 1999. I've come here almost everyday since. I think in 2003 or 4 the forum changed it's appearance to the current black look. There were several other active muscle growth websites/ yahoo groups/ msn groups from 1998-2003. They all are gone or haven't been updated since. Metabods for awhile was dormant. It's been resurrected and is better than it's ever been. This still is the best forum of it's kind.

About half of the stories posted never get completed. It bugs me. It's always been that way. Apparently, there are a lot of writers who are very sensitive to comments or are lazy. I think it's usually the former. One time I commented on the impracticality of a home gym with hundreds of pounds of weight in the attic. The author seemed to take the comment well but then he never completed the story. I guess I offended him too much. I've also said to several what great stories they created only for them to never complete them. I try to avoid commenting on stories because I don't know what the authors' egos need so I don't want to push them away from completing their own stories. This is a small forum, it always has been. If you expect thousands of different people to read your story and praise it like it's something out of this world then you are going to be disappointed. If you are writing your first story and don't know if you can complete a multiple chapter story then just do one page. Look at "Big Little Bro" a one page story which accomplishes everything a longer story does in just one page.

Don't worry about repeating themes in different stories. These stories are fictional porn. In porn, themes, sex positions, people, settings etc. are repeated over and over. People come back for more because it turns them on.

Does anyone remember QuotetheRaven? He posted a few nicely written stories here many years ago. I haven't seen him around in many years. Is he still alive? Does he still write? Corwin used to be all over this forum. I don't see him anymore either. Does he still write? JohnD used to post stories here. He posted two on omelissokomos over a year ago. Where is he? Whatever happened to redkage?

[muscl4life]

First of all, I know that Corwin and Redkage are still coming to this forum, there was even a recent story from Corwin, you just need to check the last months (but since this is already ancient history for some members, then we do have a problem). Both of them still post and comment on stories (including mine for instance )


Most of stories here are not finished for many different reasons that are totally understandable if you consider that real life takes over virtual. This is not the kind of contemporary social media venues where you HAVE to post a picture of the food you had for breakfast in order to let people know that you're alive.

When I was still learning English, one of my teachers (who was a cranky retired librarian from the US) told me to "never assume anything". Believe me, writers don't drop their projects just because someone commented the "impracticality" of a certain scene or detail. He probably never finished it because he might have lost interest, or simply preferred to dedicate to other projects, but let's not forget that this guy has his own issues and problems, and yes the reader might be frustrated with the end or even the lack of ending of a certain story, but it actually makes lots of guys to go and write their own versions or even to create their own universes.

Writing is one of the most selfish activities, you have to create an universe which only exists in your mind and make it logical, realistic (even if fantastically realistic) and functional. Writing any tale is difficult, writing any interesting tale is really hard, and writing male muscle growth erotica HAS to be something personal, you can't get others to be aroused by your story if you don't get a boner while writing or imagining a certain scene.

So, yeah, the writer created the story world mainly for him, and it IS HIS WORLD, we are just allowed to watch it, powerless, as the story unfolds. And sometimes he just doesn't want to revisit it, maybe he feels the quality of the work is not great, he could do better, or he got more excited about another plot, he is free to do that. Bumping a thread or pming the guy might persuade him to revisit your favortie story, but most of the time it is useless.

Feedback is the "richness" of the writer in this forum, but it is a two sided blade. Being flooded with enthusiastic comments on something you have written is really fantastic, and it motivates you to keep writing for your "fans" (such a ridiculous notion). However, both the excess as the lack of feedback can kill the buzz of a writer.

Everybody wants to feel they are doing a good job, no matter what they are doing. I have perfect sense that I am writing fictional male muscle growth erotica, which is another way to say "pawing off" material. So what? I want to hear that it is good, that someone else across the world got off on my story.

I don't frankly believe any writer here thinks he's doing Nobel prize material, but that doesn't mean they can't be appreciated. Like many other guys here, I don't comment on stories that I particularly didn't like, I prefer to just let it be than attacking the guy who wrote something that is not my thing. However, that doesn't mean writers can't handle criticism on their stories, I am the worst critic of my own material. Everything I have posted so far is not nearly half of the stuff I've personally discarded because I just thought it was ridiculous.

I must say that ALL my stories feature growth, and most of the stories from all writers feature male muscle growth in a certain level. Maybe some prefer the realistic approach, others want the involuntary, there are those who don't want height growth, and those who wish there were more macro muscle growth stories. But they all want growth, and most of the stories here deal with growth.

The stories section is the Essence of this forum, while the Media Section might be the one with more direct appeal, but they both need feedback from each other. How many artists have created illustrations, pics, morphs or animations based on stories? And how many writers have created excellent tales based on artwork they had seen here?

Frankly, I don't really feel like this forum is suffering from a lack of good stories. The great AKA is always posting something from his magnificent universe, we have new writers coming and giving their contributions and even those taking their own versions of former writers.

It is true that younger guys have grown up on videogames and want instant muscle growth stories, but that doesn't mean they don't read. We used to have ONLY the stories as the male muscle growth venue, now we have several types, but still, we all know writen stories can encompass a whole universe, and just as in real life, not even the greatest movie based on a book will be actually better than the original in terms of telling a great story.

Besides, this forum is building a rich depository for male muscle growth stories and such role already is very important. Another thing that many of you guys must have not considered is that people can also have their own "muscle growth worlds".

I have been role playing with several members of this forum, and have posted stories based on excellent role plays, but I must say that the REALLY good stuff I've done is not published, and it will never be. Sharing fantasies with guys in this forum is amazing, but having the opportunity to explore them even furhter with those guys who really understand the kind of passion you have and how to motivate you to share them in a private context is simply unbeatable, and the best part is that feedback is immediate.

In other words, I have done immensely long role plays that lasted for several sessions with the same storyline developed in detail with great talented writers, and they will never be posted, but they were only possible because of this forum, so in a way, like I said before, this is always changing and change is inevitable, you just have to adapt.

Finally, a word for those who are writing (or considering to write) their own very first, or the second, or the 15th male muscle growth story. Don't bother with us, don't be afraid of exploring your fantasies, don't try to please the audience in advance with allegedly "more popular" features, don't do it for feedback, because if you get lucky, not even 10% of the readers will get in touch with you. Just do it for yourself, if you have this feeling inside you, scenes that are writing on your mind as you are doing something else, or plots developing on your mind, just go ahead and write them!

Your stories are needed and welcome, you will find guys who appreciate your effort and will share their honest opinions and feelings about it, you will hopefuly understand that sharing the passion for male muscle growth is more important than the details or the media you have chosen.

Cheers!

[dodoria21]

I suppose I see both sides of this, the strictly muscle growth side and the side that just loves muscle.

It's true when I first stumbled upon this forum a few years back, my main reaction was "oh awesome, a place about muscle growth! maybe I can find other MG content that I haven't yet seen on the internet!"

And that was what I mainly used this site for, was to see if anyone had seen or heard of MG being used somewhere. My main interest is MG videos. Sometimes morphs, but I like it most when MG comes into play on tv, be it cartoons or real life through cgi or the basic camera techniques. I'm not as much into reading the stories. My interest in muscle and muscle growth doesn't really extend to the sexual side of things, and I felt a lot of stories pushed that too much. It's not a criticism, not at all, It's just not my thing.

I do write on occasion, and I did start posting a story here which I kinda dropped mostly due to life being busy. I'd certainly like to start it back up if I find the time, cuz the main theme of the story is muscle growth and I enjoy writing about it when I get the chance.

On the flip side, I do simply love muscle itself, so I enjoy seeing posts about guys working on building their muscle. After all, the evolution of someone going from either fat or skinny to muscled IS in fact muscle growth. I've shared my own journey on here, and that has proven to be a huge source of motivation for me. I do agree some posts can be repetitive especially when they're of the same guy but spanning numerous threads. I suppose that really comes down to moderation, which to me, seems relatively lax here (that's both a good and bad thing)

I, like a couple others, also think it can simply be about a change in the times. It seems MG, particularly in the media, just isn't approached the same as it used to be, and I for one do find that a shame. You can find MG splattered all over the 80s and 90s. Now it's like a big thing to stumble on it in just one random cartoon or tv episode somewhere.

In the end, though, I think most people here still share the same basic connection. muscle growth, bodybuilders, muscle worship... it all has to do with muscle. In the end, I'm just glad to have this place where I know many others understand the allure of muscle and appreciate it for what it is.

[Ogun]

Originally Posted by dodoria21

I

In the end, though, I think most people here still share the same basic connection. muscle growth, bodybuilders, muscle worship... it all has to do with muscle. In the end, I'm just glad to have this place where I know many others understand the allure of muscle and appreciate it for what it is.

Exactly- they're interrelated, and feed off each other- growth, worship, art, stories. None of them can exist in a vacuum, so rigidly narrowing the focus would only harm the community- and said community is more active than you'd think, even if not all the results end up here. It's a valuable meeting place for those involved and needs to stay. Part of the richness here is the variety of experiences and media of all kinds available.

[ydt81]

the more they stay the same.

I think I discovered this site about a year or two before I officially joined it. Back then, the ratio of stories to media was so big, I used to think it was a actually an Male Muscle Growth library with a forum--not the other way around.
(Anybody remember THIS? Yeah.)

What's interesting is that, if you compared the site then (c.2003) to now, after stripping away all non-MG content (and ignoring the different layouts), I think you'd notice only a mild change in the amount of MG content.
OK maybe that's a stretch, but I'd say the biggest change over the past decade has been the size of overall membership. My guess is that with the increase in population, there was increased activity; with more conversations going on, the MG-content became 'diluted' because with the same amount of media to go around, more fodder was needed to keep things moving. (for better or worse)


As far as stories go I have to agree with Mdlftr

Originally Posted by Mdlftr

I've written a few stories over the years, and I have to admit that I've gotten more out of the forum, content-wise, than I've put in. I agree with the majority of posters here that "lately" the forum seems to be in a rut of "muscle worship" rather than "muscle growth" stories.

Maybe it's the desire for a quick cut-to-the-chase climax (both on the page and in your lap) that motivates some authors to start with the "290-pound teenager with 21 inch arms, a 60-inch chest and a donkey dick." So. where do you go from there?

I find that I have a hard time writing a story when I realize that my personal turn ons (muscle growth, unwitting at first,then overwhelming) are repetitious, and, frankly, kind of boring in a story. How many times can I describe the surging, swelling excitement of growth and not put myself to sleep? It's the stories that go beyond the trophes that stick in my mind: Londonboy's story about the wimpy, fey, flamer that becomes a huge muscle man after getting a secret shot and he STILL is just as effeminate as ever! Funny and unexpected.

I'll admit I'm trying to think of some story lines that have a bit more creativity. Maybe the idea of "going shorter" is the way to do it.

Mdlftr

While there's been a change in the proportion of MG content that could possibly be due to 'a more impatient' crowd, as Mdlftr pointed out, it's hard to pursue something creative if the work feels redundant or repetitious.
I certainly like old-fashioned musclegrowth stories, but as I've gotten older I can definitely see why authors might be consider the "already-muscular" characters.
Let's face it--MG is a pretty high-maintenance plot device: it generally calls for a certain type of backstory, it generally leads to a certain change in tmindset/lifestyle, and it UNIVERSALLY requires certain transformation scenes in a story.

Not all transformation stories are alike, but as far as character dynamics go, I do see a very different potential for stories where the focus isn't placed mainly on the character's journey to manliness. And while this still doesn't justify posting non-growth on an MG site, I think there is some common ground between fantasies involving pure muscle growth and fantasies involving unrealistically/inexplicably muscular characters.



On the other hand, as Aardvark pointed out: Simplicity DEFINITELY works

Originally Posted by Aardvark2

................When I first started coming here a decade ago, it was a muscle-growth feast, with amazing works of transformation being posted daily. Not all of it was my cup of tea...muscle theft, body swap - eh, not my thing. But there was a ton of stuff that really did it for me. If I'm recalling correctly, about one or two stories were posted a day. They were usually pretty short, too, and they followed a very basic formula that I STILL try to adhere to with my own writing:

1) introduce some characters that need improvement.
2) grow/change the motherfuckin' shit out of them.
3) Uh?that's it.

As much as I try to see around it, this is a time-tested structure that really has served some of the best authors here quite well.
I sort of agree that the site should probably beef-up it's core MG content (or sort out the less relevant material) and when it does, it might not be such a bad thing to begin with simpler plots.

[/\/\usclekid]

muscl4life, no, I think a large reason why authors don't finish their stories is because of negative, too few or questioning comments. They get disappointed with the response so they abandon the story. As I wrote before these stories are fictional porn. I don't see guys changing their sexual interests from muscular males to fat males. If they like muscles they will continue to like muscles. So why so many would abandon their own stories doesn't make sense to me because muscles are something you will always be interested in.

[muscl4life]

You are being very simplistic, so I realize you might not be willing to see other reasons that actually take people from writing their projects besides the "They can't handle criticism and want more comments on their stories" argument.

My stories, for instance, have never particularly received the large amount of feedback that some writers get, and I am perfectly fine with such fact, because I know that I deal with certain details that are not appealing for many guys even within the male muscle growth genre. I had to stop writing for nearly a year when I was working on my thesis, so I understand that certain writers have other projects and or interests.

In fact, even if they still like male muscle growth erotica, the approach might be different - one guy who likes involuntary growth stories might realize he actually prefers the situation of growth until immobilization, or like myself, the "muscle growth only" kind of guy who quickly changed into "height plus muscle growth".

Besides, let's not forget that certain writers have to deal with much bigger problems in their lives, so they might not be able to write anymore. I personally think that writers care for their stories, maybe even if they are just "porn material" as you think, they actually represent deep personal fantasies that such writers are willing to share with the rest of the forum.

Regardless the reasons that keep a writer from concluding his works, it is not diminshed by such fact, he still is very welcome to post other stories and to keep contributing as he pleases.

Whatever we do, let's not interfere with the expression of writers and artists, let them create their fantasies and share with us, let them be free to drop their projects and to pursue other things that make them happier, let them just be free.

Any story here, finished or unfinished, is about male muscle growth and should be respected, the "quality" is not an important aspect, because it speaks differently to each reader. Writing is a learning process and I have learned so much in this forum that even if my tales are still "porn material", they represent a very important and dear part of my personality, the fantasies that I have developed within my sexuality and the attempts to create a fictional universe based on them, so they are very, very special, regardless the fact they are indeed "paw-off" material.

In sum, Writers of the Forum, keep writing just as you see fit, and please keep posting because there will always be people that will enjoy your "porn material", after all it is a necessary part of life

Cheers