Sex Scenes in Muscle Stories

[Oliver904]

Do you think Sex Scenes add or take away from Muscle Stories?

[LittleArm]

I hate to make generalizations because a well-written sex scene should be able to enhance a story. However...

Personally, I usually don't care for the sex. I am interested in the muscle. Some nudity may be OK, but the more graphic the sex the more of a turn-off it is for me.

[TheMM]

Really depends on who the sex involves. If it involves people who are 18+ and is written well, then that's as hot as the growth itself. If it's not written well\has people under 18 (technically child pornography if that's so) then I don't really enjoy it. When I write I don't add sex scenes at all, one less worry you might say.

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by TheMM

has people under 18 (technically child pornography if that's so)

technically, it isn't. First, no real children are involved. Second, it is not visual. If you consult http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_pornography:

Generally, child pornography is an illegal form of imagery featuring minors. ... The definition of "child pornography" differs from country to country. Most prohibit visual depictions of sexual activities involving actual children under a specified age. Some countries go further and prohibit all depictions of nudity of minors, whether or not the minor is depicted in an erotic pose or as engaging in a sex act. ... written child pornography is legally protected by the US Constitution as long as it is not judged obscene. As it very difficult to prove obcenity, it is effectively legal.

Throwing words around that are both imply a societal prohibition and a legal prohibition, such as child pornography are highly problematic. The owner of this forum has gone so far as to take all the stories down (at one point) because some misinformed individual threatened him because of the pornography and child pornography here. Only once assured that the threat was inaccurate both because of the nature of the erotica (mostly stories -- see above) did this site's owner restore the stories.

As I told you when you tried to assert this before -- there is a long history here around this issue. You are walking into a mine field and from everything I can tell about your attitude, it is based in some form of prejudice and personal viewpoints and not based in an accurate understanding of either the term or the law. There is nothing magical about turning 18. There is no switch that makes a person asexual prior to that age and sexual after. Teens under 18 have sex, whether you approve or not. And the underlying issues associated with prohibitions around so-called child pornography involve coersion and consent -- similar to the prohibitions against rape.

So please, feel free to not read erotica involving aspects of the story which you personally disapprove. But don't try and justify that disapproval using highly-charged terms whose meaning you don't understand.

[glammaman2000]

...often lead to nothing.Which is a GOOD THING!Even consensual relations between the mature & the under-age are WRONG because the elder party must be presumed to have a better understanding of the consequences.& you have to draw the line "somewhere". Any posts about 325lb.ripped muscle-teens are clearly "fantasies". & if they did exist; they could take care of themselves!

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

Even consensual relations ... must be presumed to have a better understanding of the consequences...

Understanding of consequences is one of the requirements of consent, or at least informed consent.

A friend of mine has a daughter. When she was three, he was giving her a bath. During the bath, she began to rub her 'private parts.' "Daddy, this feels good. Would you rub me here too." Is that consensual given that the three year old had no understanding of the consequences? (my friend had a nice discussion with his daughter about why it was inappropriate for him to touch her there, even if it felt good, and that she shouldn't ask other people to do that either)

Children are sexual. Consent (and informed consent) are a different topic.

[glammaman2000]

...it's not consensual! A 14 year-old girl, honor student, got in the habit of hooking up with older guys she met on the internet.Gifts may have been exchanged. One of them killed her. As the police went through her e-mail records; they tracked down & prosecuted ALL the adults she had been involved with."But it was consensual!"; they protested. Clearly,that was true."Kids do a lot of stupid things; that's why we have statutory rape laws"...was the police reply. I TOTALLY support age-of-consent laws ; provided they are the same for gay & straight relations.

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

...it's not consensual! A 14 year-old girl, honor student, got in the habit of hooking up with older guys she met on the internet. Gifts may have been exchanged. One of them killed her. As the police went through her e-mail records; they tracked down & prosecuted ALL the adults she had been involved with."But it was consensual!"; they protested. Clearly,that was true."Kids do a lot of stupid things; that's why we have statutory rape laws"...was the police reply. I TOTALLY support age-of-consent laws ; provided they are the same for gay & straight relations.

Well, if she were in Iowa, it all depends on what is meant by older

http://www.ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

Originally Posted by AgeOfConsentChart

In conclusion, the age of consent in Iowa is indeed 16 years of age for anyone; as low as 14 for anyone who is less than 5 years of age apart; and as low as 12 years of age under marriage.

If the older man is 18, then she's fine. If he's 19, they're in trouble, unless he marries her, then they are fine again.

I do have to wonder, though, how a five year age difference or being married has anything to do with the ability to create informed consent, as was our original topic of conversation. I think we both agree 3 year olds can't fathom the implications of sexual acts. But in Iowa, apparently the status of being married magically conveys this on 12 year olds. A 4 year age difference creates an understanding of implications, but a 5+ year difference and the 14 or 15 year old goes back to being ignorantly uninformed.


Age of consent laws are arbitrary at best, and really don't stop young people from having sex.

Of course the real solution to the story above is quite simple -- outlaw the internet. Or at least webtv.

[TheMM]

[quote=Corwin]
As I told you when you tried to assert this before -- there is a long history here around this issue. You are walking into a mine field and from everything I can tell about your attitude, it is based in some form of prejudice and personal viewpoints and not based in an accurate understanding of either the term or the law. [quote]

Actually, I do have a point of reference. When I was 12 I was kidnapped walking home and was taken somewhere and forced to have oral and anal sex. Although nothing was shown on the internet I still hate to think of it to this day. Now can we change the subject? I get mad real easy when we get into it. (Yes I'll stop complaining about it as well)

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by TheMM

Actually, I do have a point of reference. When I was 12 I was kidnapped walking home and was taken somewhere and forced to have oral and anal sex. Although nothing was shown on the internet I still hate to think of it to this day. Now can we change the subject? I get mad real easy when we get into it. (Yes I'll stop complaining about it as well)

I'm sorry you were raped, and I'm truely sorry for the anguish I'm sure this caused you.

[glammaman2000]

...& immature 20 yr-olds. Regrettably;some folks can't be left to their own discretion. Law is always about "where do you draw the line"; & it's inherently arbitrary. Doesn't mean "no lines" is going to work.

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

...& immature 20 yr-olds. Regrettably;some folks can't be left to their own discretion. Law is always about "where do you draw the line"; & it's inherently arbitrary. Doesn't mean "no lines" is going to work.

Some law is, and some law isn't. "He's only a little dead." "I only beat him up a little bit." These laws define pretty sharp lines.

The subject we are talking about is sex laws. The purpose of these laws is to prevent coercive behavior by people against children, and to prevent harm to those children. We've heard a story here by a regular poster involving abduction and coercion. That too is a pretty sharp line.

However, a law that makes arbitrary distinctions between 12, 14, 18 and 19 seems illogical. If the distinction is being drawn based upon decision-making ability, as it appears, then perhaps a better solution is to prepare these adolescent young-adults to make informed decisions. Sex has consequences. Unprotected sex is dangerous. Drinking and drugs impair decision-making abilities. Sex is a natural act. Pregnancy in young women can be harmful to their health. (and in the case of a 14 year old girl receiving gifts for sexual favors -- never take candy from strangers you meet on the internet). However, the same people that make laws defining arbitrary ages where someone can or cannot consent are the same lawmakers who want abstainance-only education, teach sex is bad and homosexual sex is unnatural.

The criminal law is a stick used to punish things that are wrong. Public policy around age of consent is less about right and wrong than about societal taboos. A more wise public policy would be one that includes educating our young people truthfully about sex, understanding that young people do have sex, and protects them from sexual preditors that use coercive or other means to harm them.

[TheMM]

That's what I've always thought. I mean I had sex, we all did. Who doesn't? However, I did it safe. Condoms and all that, still do. Now that Corwin is truly and exactly, my thoughts.

[aiden831]

While I agree that sometimes I do not mind if there are no sex scenes in a story as long as the key growth scenes are well written, I do enjoy the sex scenes as well.

In Layman's Terms: I like them both! They get me hot and bothered to the point I have to stop reading before I explode. But like I said, so long as the growth part of the story is writen well; as in, it's flow is steady, the grammer good, and the ability of the writer to capture the scene well and make the reader see it, it's all good. But I do also like the sex scenes. It's as simple as that. But then again, I'm a simple guy.

-Aiden

[WhoDunIt]

Works either way for me, no matter if it's muscle, penis, or breast growth (as in on women, or in m-f and f-m tg stories.) I really depends on if the growth is an "accident", like what sometimes happens on BEArchives Addventure, or on purpose that sometimes happens here and there.