Beware Of The 'troll ' Attack

[atomicmuscle]

What is a troll?
The term "troll" can mean a number of different things, but in essence, a troll is a person who aims to have 'pleasure' at your expense.

There are two main types of trolls:
1)people who are psychologically disturbed, and seek to feel good by making other list members feel bad. This is a sort of "psycho troll", whose deception involves deceiving themselves as well as others. In this respect, they are no different to the sorts of people we meet in everyday life who are disturbed - some of them are easy to spot, and others aren't. Such people may even use their real names on the internet, and they may not even realise that they are "trolling" because it is all subconscious.

2)people who pretend to be someone that they are not - they create personae that you think are real, but they know is fictitious.

------------The rest of this thread concentrates on the "second" type of troll.---------------

The Game of Trolling
Trolling is like playing chess - there is a point to the game, and that point is to win. Unlike chess, though, there are various ways of winning for the internet troll. These might include:

gaining credence for false and invidious ideas
driving bona fide list members, and/or particular groups, out of the mailing list
dominating the list with messages/posts that they have generated
gaining recognition or an award for their trolling from fellow trollers
getting reprimanded by individuals, list managers or internet authorities
gaining the confidence, trust and support of bona fide list members
distracting list members from their own bona fide discussions or objectives
gaining attention that they cannot get using their real personalities

Sometimes trolls operate alone, and sometimes they operate in groups, but for all of them trolling is a game. There are newsgroups and mailing lists that are dedicated to trolls, for them to exchange techniques and to plan concerted campaigns where they can invade internet mailing lists. Trolls have no concern for the feelings of the people with whom they deal. They are often manipulative, clever and approach their trolling with the same degree of planning and research as those seeking financial gain, or the same competitiveness as a serious chess player. For those familiar with Transactional Analysis (the psychological theory of real-life game playing) there are many parallels with the activities of trolls: there are many games, with different types of payoff and different tactics.

Trolling can be played at various levels...

Level one - "Playtime" - This is where the troller is simply out for the gratification provided by a quick "win". An example of this might be to join a list with a fictitious name, cause an argument, withdraw and then boast to friends about what he/she had done. Such trolls are relatively easy to spot because their attack or provocation is fairly blatant, and the persona is fairly two-dimensional.

Level two - "Tactical" - This is where the troller takes the game more seriously, creates a credible persona with which to provoke the list, and uses recognised techniques or tactics to gain the confidence and support of individuals on the list. Provocation is subtle and invidious, so spotting this type of troll is not easy, because the persona is credible, and off-list email exchanges have caused you to believe that this person is genuine and trustworthy.

Level three - "Strategic" - This is a very serious form of game, involving the production of an overall strategy that can take months or years to develop. It can also involve a number of people acting together in order to invade a list. Once a list is infested, it can be nigh impossible to work out who is a troll and who is bona fide.

Level four - "Domination" - This is where the trollers' strategy extends to the creation and running of apparently bona-fide mailing lists. In such circumstances, their payoff may be the knowledge that they are dominating the emotional lives of list members, and is perhaps one of the ultimate forms of deceit that can be achieved.


Playtime Trolls
Playtime trolls are relatively easy to spot, but they may not be apparent to the naive user. There isn't a single set of characteristics that applies to playtime trolls, but you can look for some or all of the following signs:

a lack of buy-in to the list philosophy or values
generally low level of activity, with sudden spurts of interaction - or perhaps a new persona that has strong opinions on controversial subjects
a mixture of friendly posts with a confrontational style of interaction
the use of provocative language and sweeping generalisations about certain topics or categories of people
a lack of in-depth understanding of the topic
a lack of personal information
a lack of a genuinely unique perspective on the topic
a lack of humour
restarting topics that have already been done
use of language that encourages the dialogue to enter topics that are controversial and likely to upset some team members
the use of attention-seeking gimmick (e.g.: "I was once exploited by an XYZ")
they follow up their own articles if the group doesn't respond to their posts
inconsistencies in the style and nature of the post and any proclaimed information (e.g.: claiming to be a child but writing with an adult style; claiming to be adult, but writing with a childish grammatical construction). also note that trolls often seem to use free email services (such as hotmail.com) or have email addresses ending in .edu. However, trolls could be virtually anyone, and the email address is no guide as to whether the persona is a bona fide user or not.

Tactical Trolls
Tactical trolls take much more care and effort over the creation of their personae. Such trolls are likely to be seen as long term list members, and have the confidence and trust of the bona fide people on the mailing list. They use many of the techniques listed for Playtime Trolls, but in addition:

They engage in off list email dialogues to gain the confidence and trust of influential individuals on the list.
They are friendly and humorous in the posts, to put you at ease with their persona.

They have a well-thought-through story such that the persona seems to be very real. They will give apparently personal and intimate information, particularly in off list emails.

They win trust by giving trust. For example, they may hint at something confidential on-list, but then only reveal the full story to someone off-list. By bringing someone into their confidence, they create a feeling of confidence towards them by the individual's concerned.
In off list emails, they win allies and support for some of their views. Their offlist emails are subtly manipulative.

They 'set up' bona fide members to argue with each other. Any view, no matter how outrageous, can be made to sound rational when put in a certain context. By setting different contexts for different people offlist, they create a setting whereby they can raise a topic on-list, in a seemingly innocent manner, and then watch the two list members argue because they have interpreted the topic/message in very different ways.


They don't enter into the argument directly, but facilitate an argument between list members, e.g.: by highlighting points that one list member has made, perhaps in a way that is more confrontational than the original intention.

They sometimes create a fictitious persona supported by a web-site, photographs and apparently personal data.

They may suggest meeting up in real-life, but the meeting doesn't take place.

The key difference between a troll and a bona fide list member is that when you investigate a troll, their personal data usually leads to dead-ends; when you investigate a bona fide person, their personal data leads to an ever-expanding set of evidence that they are for real. There are some tricks that the tactical trolls may use to deceive you:

Some trolls will exchange some fictitious data - e.g.: phone numbers, addresses, family details - on the basis that you are not going to actually ring them.

They may have dedicated personal phone lines that they may use for the purpose of taking verification phone calls


Strategic Trolls
Strategic trolls often operate in groups, rather than alone. They use multiple personalities, each of which uses the techniques outlined in the section on tactical trolls. However, they have an overall strategy for drawing bona fide list members into argument, ultimately causing them to leave, or for the trolls to dominate of the group. In particular:

The first phase usually involves establishing multiple personalities who become recognised as integral members of the group - "friendly trolls". Don't be deceived by the title - they appear to be friendly but they have very different hidden motives. Establishing friendly trolls in a group is a process that can take many months or even years.

The second phase involves using new personalities to start divisive threads, in the manner outlined under "Tactical Trolls". In the event that no list members respond to these threads, other phase two trolls will respond to them to keep the debate active.

If existing list members have not yet joined in the arguments, the third phase involves "offensive trolls" attacking their own personae from the first phase. As these trolls will have built up a lot of goodwill in the group, other list members will jump to their defence, and they are therefore drawn in to the argument.

In case other list members don't join in, "defensive trolls" may join in and continue to give air time to the "offensive trolls". The friendly trolls can also incite bona fide list members to join in using offlist emails.

Another phase may involve the friendly trolls starting to retaliate publicly, calling on the support of bona fide list members.
When things start to get out of hand, petrol will be poured on the flames to try and stir things up as much as possible and cause the maximum amount of strife and chaos.

Domination Trolls
Recently, it has become apparent that there are probably trolls also operating as list managers. I am unclear as to the specific motivations for this type of activity, but it may be:

*gratification from dominating the emotional lives of list members
gangland ware - where one group sets up a list and aims to defend it from other trolling groups
a genuine area of interest on behalf of the troll

Nevertheless, the lesson behind this is that you need to get verification data
for list managers as well as other list members.


Dealing with trolls
When dealing with suspected trolls, there are various strategies that you can employ. First of all, remember that just because you suspect that someone is a troll, it doesn't mean that they are a troll; also, just because you suspect someone is genuine, it doesn't mean that they are genuine. In view of this, the best tactics are:

ignore postings that you suspect may be from trolls.
*don't invest any of your self emotionally until you have verified beyond all doubt that the person you are dealing with is genuine
*beware of off list emails that praise and flatter, or seem to evoke sympathy. If you feel yourself beginning to like someone, ask *first: how much verifiable data do I have about them?
*if you do get involved in anyone, seek out verifiable data. Trolls will provide some data that will lead to dead ends; real people *will provide some data that is open-ended and leads to a myriad of sources which enable you to verify their genuine status
*if you must respond to a troll posting, don't get involved in the argument; limit it to pointing out that the posting may be *considered as trollish, for the benefit of other list members.
*Write to the listmaster to highlight what is happening
*Write to the postmaster of the troll's domain. Keep it simple, polite and to the point (they are very busy!). Include your evidence (e.g.: offensive emails) and the full email header information, so that the troll can be properly traced.

[Yachirobi]

Why should we be worrying about trolls? Did we get FARKed or something like that?

Good advice, nonetheless.

[atomicmuscle]

that's a simple answer
because everyone with a screen name
who either posts material or comments
on message boards should beware of
this issue.

Education about the "darkside" of the internet
is something we all should learn about.

Unless you are a TROLL
then I guess the "CAT HAS BEEN LET OUT OF THE BAG"
...As they say

[TheMM]

Kalinin! *horror music*

I feel like I've read this info before though Atomic. Anywho, trolls really are the dark side of the moon..err...internet. Thanks for that.

[atomicmuscle]

This is the first time I've been aware
of this group of Internet HATERS
and the first time I've posted a message
on this topic.

[TheMM]

Must be me then. I'm surprised though, I thought you of all people would have had heard of some trolls, I mean, especially considering what you do, ya know. (If you don't understand, what I'm saying is that I would think that Atomic would have had several trolls because of his morphing skills.)

[atomicmuscle]

I don't know why some people
are targeted and some are not.

But what you're saying is that
you think I may have been a target
because of my skills?

to be honest...
I think anyone on the Intertent
could be a potential target.

In fact there is one person I know of
on this site, who is most likely a TROLL
and I was not his target.

[onelocolobo]

Just out of curiosity, what brought this on?

[atomicmuscle]

Luckily
this forum has the IGNORE LIST that can
be very helpful in dealing with TROLLS
or posts you suspect to be from TROLLERS.

[chocomus]

This thread made me scared as if I had to look everywere with a dozen eyes. I don't like the idea of beginning to distrust everyone.

Anyway, I really think those trolls have too much free time (Or no life )

[Ender]

There is an old "Twilight Zone" episoide on this subject... "The Monsters Are Due On Maple Street" (amazing it just aired in the last hour or so)... It's about paranoia and mass hysteria (it was commentary on McCarthyism)...

Just because people are different and have different values doesn't mean they are bad... And thinking that there is a mass consprearcy against you is a bit sick...

Ender

[ljobenza]

Originally Posted by atomicmuscle

Luckily
this forum has the IGNORE LIST that can
be very helpful in dealing with TROLLS
or posts you suspect to be from TROLLERS.

Unfortunately that doesn't stop them from annoying the entire forum, just you. It's always best to ban or at least warn them once they go far enough.

[atomicmuscle]

Originally Posted by Ender

Just because people are different and have different values doesn't mean they are bad... And thinking that there is a mass consprearcy against you is a bit sick...

Ender

The internet is changing and there are NEW rules
as to how we communicate with each other and who
we ALLOW to communicate to us.

TROLLERS are Internet Terrorists who band together
not in religion , but in HATE. To close your eyes and
not see that theses hateful individuals need to be
dragged out into the light , is an antiquated way of looking
at the future of communication.

This is not a debate- this is simply a warning

[Ender]

Originally Posted by atomicmuscle

The internet is changing and there are NEW rules
as to how we communicate with each other and who
we ALLOW to communicate to us.

TROLLERS are Internet Terrorists who band together
not is religion , but in HATE. To close your eyes and
not see that theses hateful individuals need to be
dragged out into the light , is an antiquated way of looking
at the future of communication.

This is not a debate- this is simply a warning

What does "Religion" have to do with this... If you don't like what some one says or writes just ignore it... Hate is what it's about... I find it interesting that so many people that are trying to spawn hate against others that are in some way different drag up religion to justify it.

My point is that my comment is also a warning... A warning about spreading hate... The same hate that spawned the Witch Trials, the Holocust, McCarthyism, etc.

Personally a couple of recent stories have gone beyond what I consider good taste... The incest issue has been showing up lately... In my opinion I don't see much wrong with two mutually consenting guys fooling around even if they they happen to be brothers... Father/Son and any Much Older/Younger reletionships are more problematic because consent is difficult to confirm... Any male/female
sexual relationship, between blood relative, is wrong if only because of the higher likelyhood of genenetic disorders...

Ender

[atomicmuscle]

Playtime Trolls
Playtime trolls are not always easy to spot, so they may not be apparent to the naive user.
There isn't a single set of characteristics that applies to playtime trolls,
but you can look for some or all of the following signs:

a mixture of friendly posts with a confrontational style of interaction
the use of provocative language and sweeping generalisations about certain topics or categories of people
a lack of in-depth understanding of the topic
a lack of personal information
a lack of a genuinely unique perspective on the topic
a lack of humour

The use of language that encourages the dialogue to enter topics that are controversial
and likely to upset some team members the use of attention-seeking gimmick
e.g.: "I don't see much wrong with fooling around with your father..")
They follow up their own articles with a fictious post
with another account name if the group doesn't respond to their posts


Trolls often like to respond in threads, they've chosen
to attack, with a completely unrelated story or event
so that any new list member might feel confused as to
the original TOPIC or intent of the thread.


The ORIGINAL TOPIC of this thread was to communicate
inform and warn individuals who use Internet forums
to communicate with like minded individuals, that there are
HATEFUL people on the net called TROLLS who's soul aim
is to have 'pleasure' at your expense.

[Ender]

You are the one that first brought up the subject of Trolls and first used the terms Religion and Hate... So are you saying you are a Troll? No, I'm not a Troll but it just toubles me when people insight hate and repression then try to rationalize it with claims that they are acting for the public good and out of religious conviction...

If you want to believe that every one that doesn't agree with all of your opinions an "evil troll" that's your right but that does not mean I have to agree with you...

Yes, there are bad and sick people on the Internet but if you think about aren't they more likely to agree with you so they can seduce you into a position were they can take advantage of you. They will generally attempt the seducion in private so you need to be careful when you are dealing with strangers just like you would in real life... But those sicko people are not what I consider Trolls...

In my view trolls are looking for an audinece (the sicko's may hunt for his prey by trolling but the evil happens in private)

Ender

[atomicmuscle]

Strategic Trolls
Strategic trolls often operate in groups, rather than alone. They use multiple personalities, each of which uses the techniques outlined in the section on tactical trolls. However, they have an overall strategy for drawing bona fide list members into argument, ultimately causing them to leave, or for the trolls to dominate of the group. In particular:

The first phase usually involves establishing multiple personalities who become recognised as integral members of the group - "friendly trolls". Don't be deceived by the title - they appear to be friendly but they have very different hidden motives. Establishing friendly trolls in a group is a process that can take many months or even years.

The second phase involves using new personalities to start divisive threads, in the manner outlined under "Tactical Trolls". In the event that no list members respond to these threads, other phase two trolls will respond to them to keep the debate active.

If existing list members have not yet joined in the arguments, the third phase involves "offensive trolls" attacking their own personae from the first phase. As these trolls will have built up a lot of goodwill in the group, other list members will jump to their defence, and they are therefore drawn in to the argument.

In case other list members don't join in, "defensive trolls" may join in and continue to give air time to the "offensive trolls". The friendly trolls can also incite bona fide list members to join in using offlist emails.

Another phase may involve the friendly trolls starting to retaliate publicly, calling on the support of bona fide list members.
When things start to get out of hand, petrol will be poured on the flames to try and stir things up as much as possible and cause the maximum amount of strife and chaos.

[kirby_freak15]

huh..from my point of view I think atomicmuscle was only trying to help us identify or shed some light in Troll characteristics.
I don't think he used religion as a comparison to Terrorists...more like saying that Trolls aren't banded together by belief or faith but banded only because they have a mutual hatred towards something.

[LG2005]

I haven't seen any significant trolling here in this forum. There have been a few heated discussions but in comparison to what I've seen on another forum this is site is pretty laid back and on track.

I myself will often say things that imply "the emperor has no clothes" when I see postings by people with more words than brains. And on another site I've used the "location" field of my profile to say "Here and Now, and sometimes in your face, or out of my mind" Implying that I have opinions I'm liable to defend but may not always be right.

I've never run into any organized multi-participant trolling. On another site, i've seen a few people who are consistently irritaing and provocative but they usually get recognized and usually come in with their normal login and are usually pounced on by the more social animals in the group. However, there have been a couple of instances where a new member has been accused of being the well-known irritant with a new name because of similarities in writing style and topic or point of view.

[atomicmuscle]

....my point exactly kirby_freak15.

It's nothing to be fearful of or paranoid about.
I'm just shedding a little light on a group of sick INTERNET individuals
who in the past have been silently poisoning forums and preventing good people from communicating with each other freely and openly.

And I'm sure I don't need to tell anyone that the 21st Century is offically
the age of TECHNOLOGY & COMMUNICATION.

There's a NEW generation of young individuals who are growing up with the internet
firmly planted in their daily lives. Understanding that there may be some " BAD APPLES"
lurking about , is a real issue that should be addressed to all newbies coming on-line
for the first time., as well as the "seasoned" internet users. However this TROLL issue might
be a little hard to comprehend for some of the older folks who still see the internet
as a " NEW TOY" to play with.



Hope you all had a safe NEW YEARS EVE
and all the best to you in 2007

[onelocolobo]

Again I say, huh?

I'm not sure if it's just me but I'm lost as to what the point is here. (Sorry, not trying to start an argument. I'm just confused as to the point.)

Like you said, it's the age of technology. I'm sure we've all heard of myspace. We've all heard the warnings about the aweful people that are on the internet. We also know that the internet frees people to say (well, type) exactly what they think. There's no filter between brain and mouth like there would be in person. So often, people say things that may be out of character for that person.

If this thread is to serve as a warning, well, you sort of hit that in the first post but now it seems overkill. It's enough to say that not everyone online is a nice person and use your common sense about sharing with other people.

And I've probably said more than I should (see, no filter between brain and fingers). Like I said, I'm not trying to start an argument.

Hope you all enjoy 2007 also!

[atomicmuscle]

POSTING a frenzy of multiple threads devoted to the subject
of TROLLS would be , in my opinion an " over kill". However
this (1) thread as I see it, is a friendly exchange of ideas
and comments that have been calmly discussed and communicated
with members of this forum. And if need be, I will take the brunt
of the responsibility for this thread, which may have" understandably "
caused some members to feel unconfortable regarding this
"touchie" subject.

so in the future, "wake up" (Matrix quote) and smell the TROLL taking a crap all over your thread.

[optimusx]

Hey guys, I moved this thread to off topic since it fits the arena better. Trolls=bad, but getting fumed over Trolls only hurts you (if nothing else it's going to raise stress and lead to possibly higher bodyfat - which, after the holidays is already occuring to most of the faithful of MGS and the world)!

Play nice now boys (as you do 99.99999% of the time) or Mister Scott will start handing out beatdowns... and 275lbs of Fuming Mister Scott coming your way is not something you want to see (jk - but now that I'm talking about weight does it qualify as a muscle topic? nah )

OptimusX

[TeknoDave]

Wow, crazy. Learn something new everyday.

I shall go to bed now. heh