Rape is Seldom Unenjoyable Pt 1

[agreatguy6]

DELETED because I'm ashamed that I would ever publish such a crap ass piece of work (really, upon a second read, this WAS crap.)

[Elcaro]

You really can't tell a story through dialogue alone.


And I find the title offensive.

[sexiscriptor]

"piles of cum"? isn't that kind of a mixed metaphor?
mehehe

[Mad Dog]

You especially can't tell a story through dialogue alone if the readers can't keep track of who's talking.

[polomuscle]

hi--rape fantasy is fine as a subject or theme--we are all turned on by different things. but in the context of this forum it' inappropriate. imagine if you had been a rape victim (sorry if you are), or if a loved one was...how you might feel seeing that title. "Seldom Unenjoyable...." for whom?
$0.02

[agreatguy6]

Ahh, good point.

[MuscleChgo]

Your story was worth posting -- don't be too hard on yourself!

I found the title problematic too, as some others did, if only because the 'rape' aspect had no relation to the story. There was no rape -- they both wanted to have sex. I have a major moral and legal issue with rape if we're talking real life, and it's not a sexual turn-on for me at all, but in fiction lots of nasty things can happen, so rape as a plot element in a work of fiction shouldn't be a problem.

I think if you went through the story you could clean up the dialogue and make the story flow better. Certainly the concept is good and the growth was hot!

Keep at it!

[Xyggurat]

I think you're being unnecessarily hard on yourself in the context of this forum. People had some objections about the title of your story, but it was pretty much on par with a lot of the stuff that gets posted here.

Regarding your desire to get published, I would say that you need some work. You deleted the story, so I don't have much in the way of specific criticism. You can say that glaring flaws would be caught by editors, but a good writer makes good editors work.

[sexiscriptor]

um for the record i was only being fascetious.
as it was, i liked it well enough. I can assure you i've seen much worse 'piles of crap' or whatever you called it when you deleted it. I have half a midn to start linking right now to them, but that would be rude.
seriously tho--you shouldn't have deleted it; fuck what other people think. Seriously.
~chris

[sexiscriptor]

to all of you naysaying pansyassed jackoffs--growup.
I could--and very well might--lambast you all as well.

And for the record, Maddog and elcaro, yes you can write stories in dialogue only--and yes you can write stories in dialogue only where the speaker is not entirely evident. (In fact I'm sure there are some perfectly hot examples of this in our own archives.) However, as you all shamed him into taking the story down, I can't very well say whether this could qualify as at least a self-sustaining piece nor could I or anyone make POSITIVE suggestions to help get it there, nor, furthermore, can i even begin to weigh your pissant complaints.
And frankly, if that's what we're here for--complaining and bitching at the things we don't like--you all should watch yourselves next time you decide to post anything. You might just find yourselves on my watch list. This isn't preschool kiddies.
~Chris.

[Mad Dog]

I wasn't trying to be mean-spirited. He asked for honest criticism and I gave it. I felt it was unnecessarily confusing to not let the reader know who was speaking at any given time.

[Elcaro]

And the lack of descriptive detail made the story move a little too fast, in my opinion.

[funboy]

Originally Posted by sexiscriptor

to all of you naysaying pansyassed jackoffs--growup.
I could--and very well might--lambast you all as well.

I would say this does line does not lend itself to intelligent and constructive criticism. Everyone has a right to voice his or her opinion - positive or negative.

And the title was poorly chosen - in my opinion. But I too wish the story had not been deleted - please bring it back.

Finally, some of the greatest philosophers wrote in dialogue including Plato and Socrates - often called the Socratic technique. However, they did always identify the speaker.

LOL

PS> it's "lambaste"

[sexiscriptor]

Constructive Criticism.
You know wherein you offer supportive feedback with the ideas of improvement & discussion very much at the heart of everything; or such that he as a writer can grow and learn; or such that if he's feeling experimental he can know where you alone as yourself a single reader stand and how you responded such that he can get a better feel for what maybe worked and what maybe didn't.
Again, the idea of improvement at the heart of the matter.

Therefore:

Originally Posted by Elcaro

You really can't tell a story through dialogue alone.


And I find the title offensive.

And:

Originally Posted by Mad Dog

You especially can't tell a story through dialogue alone if the readers can't keep track of who's talking.

are neither of them "constructive" by any standard. They are at best dismissive and rude. Even downright bullying, some might say: your words and phrasing--this so called "honest criticism"--shutdown him as writer and discussion in the forum; it's very difficult to discuss something once the writer's be cowed into deleting it.

Furthermore--what you've just said, once someone stood up and called you on it, is just grand. However that's not what you were saying the first time around. Or in the least--that's not how you said it. In hardly a dozen words you both exacted prescriptive nonsense on him as though writing itself were set in stone--"You can't do this" "You can't do that"--as though you were the gods of literature and this your humble Creation & playland.

And funny thing is you're both still wrong--even in our own archives there are stories written entirely in dialogue. And even so, any radioshow is/was almost entirely dialogue. Sure there are certain conventions that could certainly help some, and that was your opportunity to suggest just such. And did you?

No.

Did you even ask?

No.
Dismissal & Indiscussion.


Polo managed a little better, though, so obviously the case wasn't totally pitted against genuine critique, although it would seem he wasn't as bothered by those same elements as you two were:

Originally Posted by polomuscle

hi--rape fantasy is fine as a subject or theme--we are all turned on by different things. but in the context of this forum it' inappropriate. imagine if you had been a rape victim (sorry if you are), or if a loved one was...how you might feel seeing that title. "Seldom Unenjoyable...." for whom?
$0.02

See that? He's actually exercising some degree of consideration. You know, in those last couple digits/punctuation there ($0.02). However, granted, he too exacts prescriptiveness with "innappropriate".
I mean just imagine if we let some of that sick shit slip by! Like, oh, i dunno, grow some teen (MINOR!) and have him start fucking his mother in front of his little brothers (MINORS!) then kill a squad of policemen--and all of it written very sloppily, to make things WORSE! Thank JESUS we've got you people to maintain STANDARDS of APPROPRIATENESS & GOOD LITERATURE on these boards or we?d be FUCKED!
But hm?I wonder where ?appropriateness? ends? I wonder if maybe some people don?t happen to find the idea of rape or rough sex, fucking mothers or BROTHERS (ahem.), or any number of such things actually rather HOT. And maybe some people love dialogue and fast paced stories, or hate drawn out verbosity. Hm. Maybe we should ASK eachother and TALK about it--see when and where it works or doesn?t.
I mean if we?re going to call this a forum--we might as well at least PRETEND to believe in some kind of democratic processes/power of the people.

It is nice, though, to see SOME decency remains on these boards.

Originally Posted by MuscleChgo

Your story was worth posting -- don't be too hard on yourself!

I found the title problematic too, as some others did, if only because the 'rape' aspect had no relation to the story. There was no rape -- they both wanted to have sex. I have a major moral and legal issue with rape if we're talking real life, and it's not a sexual turn-on for me at all, but in fiction lots of nasty things can happen, so rape as a plot element in a work of fiction shouldn't be a problem.

I think if you went through the story you could clean up the dialogue and make the story flow better. Certainly the concept is good and the growth was hot!

Keep at it!

Even where he talks about himself it?s in regards to a larger context and remains wholly more considerate than SIMPLY

Originally Posted by Elcaro

And I find the title offensive.

Especially as I can sit & consider what Chgo said, and reply & engage it in my response: indeed, I think a lot of people have moral & legal issues with rape, chgo :P nevertheless--tons of stories out there with plenty of rape AND ?rape?, and this isn?t really one of them. So especially as such--if the title doesn?t change, I can only hope people WILL ACTUALLY READ IT and see what you?re talking about there.

(Hm?I wonder how many of you actually DID read it?.)
~Chris

NOTE: The ACLU policy, in similar cases, encourages that instead of shutdown or censoring so-called "offensive materials", encourages discussion and voicing opposing & other sides. So instead of trying to get a KKK march canceled, they'd have an anti-KKK march of their own somewhere else in the city. Granted, it may not be so feasible to have, say, an "ANTI-RAPE" story, but we could still have DISCUSSED. And still can.

[funboy]

Originally Posted by sexiscriptor

Constructive Criticism.
You know wherein you offer supportive feedback with the ideas of improvement & discussion very much at the heart of everything; or such that he as a writer can grow and learn; or such that if he's feeling experimental he can know where you alone as yourself a single reader stand and how you responded such that he can get a better feel for what maybe worked and what maybe didn't.
Again, the idea of improvement at the heart of the matter.

I think you misunderstood my previous reply. I was simply pointing out that the couple of lines I previously quoted do not appear to be constructive criticism on your part either. Just as you accuse some others of "cowing the writer into submission", so too do you try to silence the negative voices with a diatribe.

If this is to be a true forum, then everyone must feel free to voice opinions. I think most try to be constructive - perhaps sometimes some go overboard. However, a better response (rather than going on a rant) might be to point out exactly what you did - in a more positive manner.

And that's my $0.02 - but you will probably want to give me change since it's not worth that much.

[Elcaro]

Haha, sigh. I'll come up with something!!

[funboy]

deleted as the error has been corrected ROFLMAO

[Elcaro]

Rofl, guess I got kind of caught up. Gonna delete it and come back with somethin later.