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 August 13th, 2007, 09:44 PM | |||
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| Motivate someone else. 'Someone else' is my younger brother. He's not massively huge, but he is overweight and wants to get rid of it. I've tried to get him to start working out myself, but it hasn't seemed to help as of yet. With all my talking to him, his younger friend who's like...I don't know....14 or so, wants to work out with him, but even his words aren't very motivating to my brother. He's been incredibly shy all his life, so I know that he wants to, but is probably So now I come to all of you, asking that maybe if he knows that an entire website about muscle (not being specific of course) is behind him maybe he'll want to lose the extra pounds. Let me tell you a wee bit about him: He's just under the 200 pound mark (he won't say exactly), most of it useless weight (fat is such a harsh term). His body weight is actually fairly well positioned throughout his body. It hasn't collected around just his stomach or his thighs or in other ways that you might notice. He's 17. He has surprisingly strong and fast legs such to the point that you see his calves slightly even when they're relaxed. He can actually go faster then the sprinters and other track people at school, not for long, but he can. His heart rate is good, but his blood pressure is a wee bit high, but both are still within the "healthy" part of the spectrum. In other words...out of the "5 Stages of Fatness" he's still in the "Healthy" stage.* I hate to keep asking things from everyone, but I hope that maybe you all might be willing to perhaps get him going. One last thing though, he can't start working out for a couple weeks since next week he's gonna have his wisdom teeth taken out, so he would start the week after next so he can recover. *If you don't get that, the "5 Stages of Fatness" is a joke by Gabriel Iglesias. Instead of calling himself "fat" he calls himself "fluffy." The stages (from the order he mentions them, I think) are:Big, Healthy, Husky, Fluffy, and DAMN!!! __________________ In the MGS FC's I am Psycho Mantis! "Put your controller on the floor...Put it down as flat as you can...That's good. Now I will move your controller by the power of my will alone!"     |
| August 14th, 2007, 08:28 AM | |||
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| Well, I know it sounds like a cliche', but its also true, that you can't help someone unless they want to be helped. I used to be a rather fat person (having reached a peak of 275 at one point), and was so for many years. I got chubby in middle school, out right fat in high school, and kept gaining during my 20s. Naturally, I had people all the time telling me that I should do something about it, and although I knew they were right, and although I didn't want to be so unattractive, having people point my fatness out made me incredibly slef-conscious, and actually made me resentful towards them. It wasn't until one day, when I finally made up my mind for myself that things should change, that change finally happened. |
| August 14th, 2007, 09:06 AM | |||
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| Well, I was not exactly fat when i was younger, so i can't talk with a personal view. But working out help me with stress and since i began doing it, I sleep better. Besides now that I started seeing gains I feel better. Also when I got frustrated from something It helps a lot: Fucking *1 rep* 4.9 *2 reps* in *3 reps* phisics *4 reps* #$%&!!!! -> This actually happened in my first year of college  And It really helped meCome on! Try it! Anyone can do it, so why not you? __________________ The Internet is for PORN! -Trekkie- http://chocomus.deviantart.com/ http://yaoi.y-gallery.net/user/chocomus/ |
| August 14th, 2007, 11:18 AM | |||
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| I hope this will help... It's great that you want to help your brother... As they said above he needs to make the descision that he wants to change... And having been a overweight kid I know that having people remain you of that only server to destroy what ever self-esteem and positive self image he has... and those are what he needs more if he decides he want to change... What you "can" do depends on your relationship with your brother... If you are friends and respect each others opinions (not something I have with my brother) you can try talking be DON'T lecuter... If you workout regular ASK him to come to the gym with you and show him the ropes... If you are the rare "bothers that are real buddies too" become his training partner... That's what I needed someone to be there to gently at first give me a nudge in the right direction... Oh heres an approach, you ask him to help you workout You describe him as "very shy" how do you define "shy" are you sure it's not that he is introverted to the point he does want lots of people around him... (I'm that way in person... having people around is very taxing on my nerves and the stress goes exponentially will the number of people... I can be the loud mouth know-it-all some think I am here, because I'm safe none of you can touch me... If you can talk and the you being his training buddy/trainer won't fly but he does want to change help hime find a "trainer/buddy" If you can afford it and you can't find another want give him a couple session with a trainer to get him started on a program... If necessary include the "twerp 14yo" in it if he can be convinced he wants build himself up, he may pull your brother along with him... Remember to control expectations but make sure you document your bro before and on a regular basis... the mirror won't show the progress but progress photo will... And a couple of things to inspire him... http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3485571 the difference in tha eyes really sells the change and the "redeye" from the flash adding a touch of "TeenWolf" flavor that only makes it better...  http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/trans40.htm http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/trans24.htm http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/transm101.htm http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/trans24.htm http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/trans37.htm http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/transm91.htm Drop me a line if you want to talk more |
| August 14th, 2007, 12:13 PM | |||
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I have my own definition of "shy" but for my brother it means he almost never talks. He'll do stuff that he and his friends want to do, he simply doesn't talk often. His 14 yo friend is unique in that my brother will talk to freely and without hesitation. Not very many people can get him to do that. His friend doesn't boss him around like some people do to those who are shy, he's...kinda like a therapist to my brother, if there's something on his mind, his friend will listen and help him with it. Those damn mirrors never help! But I will definately keep track of his progress if he does decide to do it. And...wow...about those transformations, especially the one I kept in the quote, that's some serious stuff right there. Thanks for the help thus far, definately given me some more thoughts to go on. Ya'lls opinions add more ideas to possibly help my brother go through a transformation. __________________ In the MGS FC's I am Psycho Mantis! "Put your controller on the floor...Put it down as flat as you can...That's good. Now I will move your controller by the power of my will alone!" |
| August 14th, 2007, 02:39 PM | |||
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| If you what a better grip of what make your brother tick you might want to check out... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-B...Type_Indicator and http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp I find this model for why people do what they useful in finding the right way to present Ideas to people... you both need to take the quiz and know the results so you can both play to the others strengths... My bet is your brother will score high in the "I" indicator and he only talks when he has something he wants of needs to say... (The image of Jay and Silent Bob comes to mind) I bet he's never discused the weather with you... introvert don't chit chat well... I can understand your prarents reasoning about the gym membership (you might want to get MBTI for them too) But going someplace where he's anonymous could be good for your brother... letting him invent himself with out the limitations of who you and your folks remember him being... an image he may want to or already has outgrown. This is a self esteem confidence issue too... hecad84 is 100% rigtht no overweight kid wants to be that way and it's not enough to want to change.. he need to believe that change is possible, that he can affect that change, the by changing he won't stop being who he is... (this is a real biggie loss of self is terrifing and when linked to becoming like individuals that you feel have harmed you... is enough to scare any one off. (Image of the borg queen telling you resistence is futile...) Yes it is totally irrational the processes at work here don't care whats rational. All the care about is that to accept change is to become different and to be different is the no be self... I'm not going to chase that idea any deeper it's creeping me out and I thouht I had it all locked down tight. Ender |
| August 14th, 2007, 03:29 PM | |||
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| I just want to add my echo to everyone else's advise here. To really be able to do what your brother needs to do -- and what he wants to do I believe -- the drive has to come from within himself. I was also painfully shy when I was fat (I scored over 80% I on the MBTI), and I truly believed that there was nothing I could do to change myself. He must overcome that fear, and it takes time and effort. But, your brother has one thing that I didn't. People who care about him and want to help him. For me, that came much later. Perhaps a smaller goal would be more of an advantage. A goal of just getting active. You may want to suggest coming along on some activity that he could do alone or in an intimate group, without fear of the mirrors or being seen by others beyond those who he is comfortable with. Hiking, biking -- those kinds of activities what do not require specific "skills" like other sports -- will get the blood flowing, drop pounds, and can motivate him to move on to other things like weight training when he succeeds at the first. Ender is right about the fear of change, speaking from my own experience. The more weight I lost, the more the physical transformation took hold, the more my MTBI changed. Those letters and numbers shifted dramatically. Different parts of me that were always there suddenly came out. Aspects of personality in people I always hated/feared were a part of me and I didn't know what to do. Sometimes it's still kind of scary, this new person that I see in the mirror, who he is, what he likes to do. Transformation is right . . . it's not just physical, but the whole person who will change. If/when it comes he'll need an anchor of stability, someone or something that will let him see that while he's turning into a "new person," but the good parts of the old is still there. You and Mr. 14 year old can be part of that, in the gym, out of the gym, wherever. |
| August 15th, 2007, 10:26 AM | |||
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Seeing a reflection and not recognizing that it's your own reflection can be an ego boost but looking in the mirror and seeing in yourself traits that remind you of people that caused you pain and hurt is disturbing and the fear the you are becoming something you don't want to be starts... even if it doesn't come to consciouses awareness... That's the reason a lot of people that make dramatic changes in their lives backslide under stress... That is my biggest problem I can become the guy I want to be, but I never fully accept it as me and hold on to it by force of will... When crisis comes up (and they always do) I lose my grip on the me I want to be... and don't notice until the crisis is passed. Then I berate myself for letting what took so much work to achieve slip away... again... [Sorry guys I need to vent some and writing stuff down and then burning it does work for me] That's where I am now... 4 years back the guy I want to be was nearly what looked back from lb, 16%bf, a hint of the top row of ab's, it was just a matter of staying on track and I would be wearing the ~6%bf gymnast type body I had wanted and working toward most of my life... It was nearly within my grasp... again... Then... to say things at work went to shit would be a gross understatement... over the next three years I gained nearly 100lb of flab... came totally despise myself... again... (and more I don't want to talk about... That's why I haven't added to A Deal's a Deal for so long... also the plot requires a less than fully consensual sex scene that I can't bring myself to write and can't just be implied by setting it up then fading out) Thing's seem to be getting better at work and I am digging my way out of the pit I used to bury myself and hide from the world... And I'm getting my head back to where it needs to start the journey to get the body I want again... and hopping I finally get it and finally allow myself to keep it... TheMM post about his brother paralleled the thought process I was going through to work out to give myself the push I need to get myself started on the journey and not allow prize to slip away again... I had thought I had worked out dealing with the "loss of self" and "becoming something I don't want to be" issues... what had "creeped me out" was that the rationalization, metaphors, etc against those ideas started to "leak" and then crumble... In general being as introverted as I am is not a bad thing... not feeling peer pressure or needing to be connected to other people let's me have an open mind but not be taken in by attempts to manipulate me by the threat of exclusion or the lure of belonging because my sense of self is anchored internally and not in the way I appear to others... But that makes adjustment of self image difficult without access to an external reference point you can't "reset" your internal positioning system and have to always apply a correction factor (this is a poor metaphor but I can't think of a better one right now)... [Okay, I think the vent is over... sorry] Anyway be there for him but don't be judgemental to be able to make the choice to change he needs secure enough in himself the believe that things can be different and that he has the right to change the status quo... Sorry I spend too much time in my head trying to build model of the world, people, thing... in the hope that if I can understand things I will be able to avoid being hurt by them... |
| October 6th, 2007, 08:33 PM | |||
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| My mommy dearest recently read a book. It was a book about nutrition. in this book it mentioned that people are "fastburners" "slowburners" and "average." (Average wasn't called that, but you get me) Now my mother and myself were "fastburners" meaning that we burned up food 'n stuff quickly. My brother was a "slowburner." About fastburners, it said that the best kind of exercise was running/walking/jogging, cardio and all that basically. For slowburners, the best kind of exercise was in a word: weightlifting. Now then, my (new) question to you all is this: Should I use this as motivation to see if my brother will become more fit? __________________ In the MGS FC's I am Psycho Mantis! "Put your controller on the floor...Put it down as flat as you can...That's good. Now I will move your controller by the power of my will alone!" |
| October 7th, 2007, 09:18 AM | |||
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| Most definitely share the information but don't push... be there for him but don't be judgemental... the idea of getting him a gym membership and some time with a trainer if your family can afford it and he will use it might be want he needs to take the first step... If he is the only chub in a family of hard bodies he already feels alienated and getting him with someone from outside that he feels he can trust should help, but still only if he wants it for himself... He may already want desperately to change but feels the asking for or accepting help will lower his level of respect in your family... I wish somebody would have offered my a hand when I was your brother's age But I was the big brother and my dad was gone all week on business... My family had moved 4 times in as many years and I didn't know know any one. I did try to reach out a few times but those attempts only made the teasing worse... There may have been some hands offered later but I was so gun shy by then I most likely thought they were more jabs to be warded off... Ender |
| October 7th, 2007, 11:54 AM | |||
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A major question before giving a teen guy Test is that doing it is like to cause the growth plates in his long bones to fuse shutting down further growth... I am short 5'5" (I could just bearly strech to 5'6" as a HS senior... given a choice between short and fat or an inch or so short and buff or even skinny I would have happily gone for buff or skinny with a big grin all the way. To be a chubby teen boy sucks more than any one that wasn't can ever know... Ender |
| October 8th, 2007, 01:52 PM | |||
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High estro/low test, somehow I kind of thought so. Something to definately remember. Fix it soon eh? Hmm, I won't say that to him, lest it scare him. __________________ In the MGS FC's I am Psycho Mantis! "Put your controller on the floor...Put it down as flat as you can...That's good. Now I will move your controller by the power of my will alone!" |
| October 8th, 2007, 03:49 PM | |||
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He needs your love, support and respect but most of all he needs to respect himself and he may feel that to admit you were right and to ask for or accept help will diminish him in every ones eyes. Someone from outside may not be as threatening as family and he can let down his guard a bit and admit to himself he wants to change and they tell him he can change if he choses to do it and how and supply a bit of hand holding in the beginning... Like you know once you get into the habit and start to see and feel the results it's hard not to get hooked Quote:
High estro will with time widen hips cause gyno (the real kind not just flab) and over soft appearance and a whole lot of things that don't look good on a guy. (same as test does to women beards and a visible clit are not attractive on a gal.) I assume your brother is about as smart as you are MM if he does have a problem I would think he would be delighted to know it's not any thing he did or didn't do and that it can be fixed and be grinning ear to ear as his body starts to morph into something closer to your sexy sleeve... (If your bro isn't on a par with you my appolgies... I have a nephew with Downs Syndrome so I have some understanding..) There are several other condition that can have similar symptoms and the endocrinologist can check for those too Ender |
| October 14th, 2007, 08:46 PM | |||
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| Just to help out, by the sounds of it, I used to be very similar to your brother. I was always quiet and shy. I would do what my friends did but it was hard to get many words out of me if I didn't know the person. I got into the gym of my own accord just because I got fed up with being on the heavy side and afraid to take off my shirt, now i am running into the problem of taking my shirt off too often. Anyways, I would say as many others here already have, he won't do it if he seriously doesn't want to. If you can convince him to train with you and train consistently for about 3-4 weeks, take a picture before and after. Show him the results, he might just like what he sees and continue on the process. If he needs help starting out, you should be the one to help but once he gets started it will be up to him to decide whether he wants to keep it up or not. Show him the results that are possible and he might just hop right on the bandwagon. |
| October 23rd, 2007, 08:38 AM | |||
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| An Idea you may want to consider... But it is a bit sneaky and depending on his real desires it's a bit unethical to do it without telling him. But if he does want to trim down and build some muscle (even if he hasn't realized it himself yet) he is likey to thank you for it later... Subliminal suggestions. I'm not a big believer in sublim, I thinks it's mainly a matter of reinforcing the desire that the subject already has inside and giving him permission to accept the desires and act on them. You've said you're willing to help him, If that means your willing to invest the time and energy to go to the "gym" to train with and coach him. To be his cheerleader and a hand for him to hold. And some where inside him, he wants to change his body and get lean and build some muscle, it just might work. And maybe forge deeper bonds between the two of you. (If you don't tell him before and he finds out it is like he will be pissed. Particulaly if it doesn't work out. If it does work he'll just get over it and hopefully think you're a really great brother for caring that much about him... The sort of suggestions I would use would be affrimation and things like... he's lean and healthy, he wants it eat heathy, he thinks "junk food" tasted bad, he likes to be physically active. he wants to be strong, that is big brother can help him to get leaner and stornger, he enjoys working out and the it makes his body feel... he's proud of his lean muscular body, and drop those sort of messages into his music or what he listens to... It's just a thought... if he would say that he wants it that opens a lot of doors. Ender |
| May 15th, 2008, 10:18 AM | |||
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| Humility Helps Too Especially with family and those close to us, I have found. It can be hard to take advice from another male at times. You can obviously see his flaws. But I becha he can see yours, too. Are you willing to let him point them out to you, without taking it personally, and perhaps work on them too? I find that often my desire to help others is a projection. I am trying to help them so that I will stop having to work on my own self -- which is harder to do than working on them. That doesn't mean that I shouldn't help them too. But I realize that I must include my own growth and development (and I don't just mean muscles, here) in the game, or else I'm playing Dr. Frankenstein instead of being a real training partner, one who recognizes he (me, in this case) has some growing and developing to do, too. That's humility... that in this great human game none of us are perfect, none of us has all the answers, and we actually do need each other to help us grow and evolve. So consider making a pact with your brother, if that might work. Do some challenge together that requires you to work together in order to achieve the objective. Where you both have to pull your weight, and where it isn't just you leading him. That'll help forge a deeper bond. Regardless, work to find a new way to relate, perhaps where you are willing to support one another to BOTH become the best you can be. And where you are both willing to take and receive advice, when it is respectfully and honestly given. I think if a friend of mine who had a younger brother who was constantly lying, so much so no one would ever believe him. Finally, one day, he put one hand in front of his face, sort of like half of a prayer (with both hands pressed together, only this was only a single hand). He said to his family, "When I do this, you know it is the truth." And he kept his word whenever he did that. That was how he forged a new relationship with his family. Perhaps you can find a new way of relating to your brother. You might have to demonstrate that he can trust you in some way. And then demonstrate it again, and even again. Until he opens up more. Of course, I don't know you or your brother, so this stuff is rather out of context. But perhaps it could help. I know you want to help your brother get in shape. But what is most important is finding new ways for you too to relate, so that you have the relationship that is powerful and deep enough, like roots of a tree, that your advice can grow in him. And perhaps even his advice in you, now or at some point in the future. I sometimes find when I think I cannot find anything that the person before me has to teach me, it is because I am simply not looking in the right way. Best, Markus aka MonsterMuscleBe __________________ Working out is erotic, once you really get into it. |
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