MG Authors: You Talk Pretty Today!

[nypup2train]

I'm sorry, I know this isn't really the place for such nit-pickery, and most people (readers, I mean) don't give a crap. It just seems like this one has been spreading like a cancer, lately. I feel like I have to do something before it gets any worse.

Traditionally, as it was drilled into me:

The past tense of the verb lead, l-e-a-d (pronounced "leehd") is led, l-e-d. No a. Lead is "lehd" when it's a noun, meaning the soft metal.

...Also, you "wrack" your brain. With a w. That's the expression. While a brain, like weights, could be racked -- meaning set down on rack -- I'm pretty sure it would have to be removed from your body first. Thus, a difficult trick with your own brain. Yes, the definition of "wrack" is "place on a rack", but that's referring to the medieval torture device... hence the expression!

I know, I know, I could go on forever listing more, and I promise not to. But the lead/led thing has been driving me batty. Thanks.

P.S> Note, also, that in some dictionaries (especially online ones) you'll find both lead and led listed as being interchangeable for the past tense of lead ("leehd"). There's a trend among dictionaries in recent years to surrender to common mistakes and make them canon. That, too, frustrates me. But, given that unfortunate fact, you could suport an argument that the "lead" past-tense usage is correct. I concede that. It'll just continue to grate on me, and I'll simply have to suffer.

[nypup2train]

Originally Posted by nypup2train

There's a trend among dictionaries in recent years to surrender to common mistakes and make them canon. That, too, frustrates me.

...I realized I should be clearer about this: It frustrates me when it's a bad thing that makes the language more confusing! I understand that language evolves over time, and sometimes "wrong" usage becomes common enough to be considered valid. But it doesn't make any sense for "lead" to be its own past tense, when there's a perfectly good word "led" that eliminates any confusion!

(This is, for example, directly opposite the movement towards "bicep" as the singular of "biceps", in common English usage. I'm actually kinda in favor of that one, since having "biceps" be its own plural is confusing! Yes, the original Latin word is "biceps", singular. But we're not speaking Latin.)

So, I feel like there's some value in making qualitative judgements on which evolutionary changes are accepted into canon. Who decides? Well, me, if I had my way. ...I can at least state my case.

[rtulde]

I'm with you on this one. Another one that bugs me is "lay/laid." I realize this one is pretty hard so it doesn't bug me too much. The basic rule is you lay or lie yourself down other things are laid down. "I lay down on the weight bench after I laid my towel on top of it."

I realize that people get mental blocks about this. One author from this site admitted to me that he just cannot get than/then right so he just uses then for everything, English is not his first language. I just don't get semicolons; as you can see!

[BigSteve6ft3]

Pup,

If you haven't already, you've got to read "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" by Lynne Truss. It's a hilarious diatribe by a grammar nit-picker, mostly focusing on punctuation. If nothing else, once you read it, you won't feel so alone.

One of my favorites from the book was the man who had a sign on his In-box in his office.
It should have read "Dick's In-Box." Instead his sign said

"Dicks in box"

Lynne's comment: "Try not to think about it."

[musqlure]

I don't see what's so hard about distinguishing "then" from "than." The former is an adverb meaning "at that time in the past" or "next in time, space, or order." Here are some examples of "then":

Example 1: I was only eleven years old then.

Example 2: We went to the grocery store and then we stopped by the bakery.

Example 3: Driving north on I-95, you come first to Baltimore, then Wilmington, then Philadelphia.

"Than," on the other hand, is a conjunction, and it's used to introduce the second part of a comparison of two unequal things. Thus:

Example 1: Bill Gates is richer than I am.

Example 2: You really should eat more than that.

I usually attribute the confusion to typographical error more than (did you catch that?) anything else. I really don't think it's hard to understand the difference in meaning.

[arpeejay]

Oh, my. The Forum offers endless examples.

Lately one of my favorites is "defiantly" used for "definitely..." Actually, I half suspect the author "definitely" knows the meaning of each and is "defiantly" choosing to pretend otherwise.

And, yes, true confession time: I absolutely DO know the difference between "there," "their," and "they're" -- but my figners are apt to type whichever one pops into their (!!) little brains first!

xoxo

Richard

[wolfotehmoon]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

Oh, my. The Forum offers endless examples.

Lately one of my favorites is "defiantly" used for "definitely..." Actually, I half suspect the author "definitely" knows the meaning of each and is "defiantly" choosing to pretend otherwise.

And, yes, true confession time: I absolutely DO know the difference between "there," "their," and "they're" -- but my figners are apt to type whichever one pops into their (!!) little brains first!

xoxo

Richard

I would imagine your "fingers" are, too. :P

[Bull]

Yes, these things make me crazy too; it's the English major in me. But I must confess, I often find such mistakes in my own writing when I come back to read it later. I can proofread other's writing very well, but not my own, for some reason.

As to the issue of dictionaries allowing wrong usages; as you say, language evolves, and sometimes new usages make more sense than the old ones. But not always. One that has come into common use in recent years is "beg the question" as meaning "raise the question." IMO, that should NOT be allowed, as there is already a perfectly good phrase for that meaning, and to beg the question has a very specific meaning that nothing else fits. To quote an online dictionary:

"Take for granted or assume the truth of the very thing being questioned. For example, Shopping now for a dress to wear to the ceremony is really begging the question--she hasn't been invited yet. This phrase, whose roots are in Aristotle's writings on logic, came into English in the late 1500s. In the 1990s, however, people sometimes used the phrase as a synonym of "ask the question" (as in The article begs the question: "What are we afraid of?").




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[nnnrg]

One of my least favorite goofs:

"TAUNT" as in "He has a taunt body" ... and if so, why is he using it to provoke you to anger by insulting you with it? He might well have a "taut" body, meaning "tight", as opposed to a "taught body" meaning that it was educated or trained.

I've been told by one person who does this kind of thing that it's because he writes the words as he would speak them. This is untrue, because he doesn't actually speak that way, but he writes them as his brain tries to transcribe them, and he has a variant of dyslexia.

Still, for most of us, a fast editorial pass will comb out many of these. (Kind of like this one where I put in the g in 'insulting'.)

[Demandred]

There's a poster in the place I'm staying on holiday right now which suggests people join a running club to "loose" some weight! Argh! Unfortunately, knowing the difference between stuff like "loose" and "lose", or the aforementioned examples, is different in practice. I know that I've read over my own stuff, on here or elsewhere, and surprised myself at some of the simple mistakes! I try to look over such typos in other people's work, and be as meticulous as I can with my own.

[howardbeatman]

Just about all computers these days are equipped with a spell-check for their word-processers. But many web-posters (not just on this site) evidentally don't use them!

I beg of you posters:

1. After you write anything, use spell-check.
2. If your computer has grammar-check, use it.
3. Read your post over before you upload it and correct any mistakes you see.

I know that these checks will not catch all mistakes, but they will make reading what you wrote much easier.

I think that when your reading these stories you shouldn't give a flying fuck about the grammer because you just wanna wank off your cock

But thats just me

Yes we should spell check and grammer check etc.. but when I read my stories my mound is so clouded by the desire to touch my cock I sometimes miss stuff.

oops

If your so picky about it. Read through are stories and correct em yourself, we are doing this for free

[wolfotehmoon]

Originally Posted by TeenMuscleGod

I think that when your reading these stories you shouldn't give a flying fuck about the grammer because you just wanna wank off your cock

But thats just me

Yes we should spell check and grammer check etc.. but when I read my stories my mound is so clouded by the desire to touch my cock I sometimes miss stuff.

oops

If your so picky about it. Read through are stories and correct em yourself, we are doing this for free

...........


Guys, I'm trying really hard. Really, really, REAAAAAAALLY hard...

Did I mention this is a random side hobby I do, I don't do it for a career, this isn't a writers forum or anything like that. Its just random guys writing (I failed lit in high school by the way) I don't know what I'm doing when I write. I just write my hot ideas down which apparently tons of other guys like.

Yes it can be annoying, but you have tweaked other people's stories before to your own liking. Why don't you do it again?

I know wolfie you wanna say something snotty, proving that your better then me and everyone else.

I'm already taking hours and hours to make the story in the first place that I don't have to write. I get these ideas in my head when I jerk and then write them down on paper for you guys. Not for me... Like I said though I'm not seeing a check, so I could seriously care less if I make a few mistakes.

Just my thoughts as a writer

[rextorres]

Alright, I wasn't going to say anything in this thread, but...

I published my first book last year and I just received my third royalty check from my publisher. I guess that means I'm officially one of the few published authors on this forum, so my words and opinion carry some weight.

Every author is responsible for their own work. They should know whether or not they decide to publish their stories with mistakes in grammar, punctuation, or spelling. Since this is NOT a writing website, I don't think we can be too hard on authors who post stories with mistakes in them.

Heck, I have probably written MORE stories than most of the members on this site. My novel was 135,000 words long, so you can just imagine how many mistakes were made in the first draft of that thing! We're ALL human and we ALL make mistakes!

The thing is, writers need to take time to edit, and that's hard, it's tedious, and it's very time-consuming. Plus: Let's be honest; most writers HATE doing it (myself included). My book took 4 months to write and 5 months to edit and it was a bear! But, when you're writing for publication, you MUST edit, revise, and rewrite your work. There is no way around it. And, even then, your writing will NEVER be 100% perfect.

So, for those of you who care about spelling and punctuation and grammar: This is my suggestion. If you see a GOOD story on this forum, which has mistakes in it, why not offer the writer your editing services instead of bashing him on his poor spelling and grammar? Help him out! There isn't anymore more discouraging than spending four hours writing a story and to get horrible feedback because of a few spelling errors from a couple of readers on the forum. Come on, people!

We need to STOP being so CRITICAL of one another on this site, for heaven's sake! How many of you are PUBLISHED authors? HUH? What? Just ME? SO be quiet then! Bunch of hypocrites! Where is YOUR royalty check?? It's very quiet here now! Some of the posters in this thread have NEVER posted a story on this site! Practice what you preach first!

Let's try to HELP one another out instead of putting one another down. Some of the authors on here are from non-English speaking countries and they might need help with their grammar and their spelling. Offer to help them out. Then you'll see the quality of the stories improve and people will have more FUN reading - and writing - new stories for this forum. After all, isn't that what we all want when we come here in the first place?

[wolfotehmoon]

@Rex
I don't think I've ever seen someone straight-up say they didn't like a work, without giving specific reasons.

@TMG, I don't think I'm better than anyone else, and I WASN'T going to say anything snotty, but... You say you're not doing this for yourself, but then you complain when you don't get comments on your work, and when you get comments that aren't complete praise? You say you work SO HARD, but you can't take the time to proofread? Right. Now, I will give you that you actually post a lot, where as I've only put something up once, but, damn, man... And then you come onto a thread where people are talking civilly about the things that irk them, and tell us that what we think doesn't matter? You need to get over yourself.

As for my own grammatical pet peeves... Foooormaaatiiiing. And onomatopoeias. Granted, problems with these two are harder to catch since you can't just say, "COMPUTER, SEPARATE INTO NEAT PARAGRAPHS AND INDENT," especially when pasting into a text field; or because there's no automated way of telling you when just describing an action would be best... But getting them right can really make or break the flow of the story.

Oh, and punctuation. I raaaaaaage with messed-up punctuation.

[BigSteve6ft3]

Hey, relax Teen-god. Nobody's pickin' on you. This thread is just a bunch of guys venting about a little peeve they've got. Everyone's got pet peeves and hang-ups, and for some people it's grammar. Don't take it personally.

I'm a bit of a grammar nut myself, but I also pretty much agree with everything you say, TeenMuscleGod. When I read stories on here I try hard not to let the odd grammar error distract me from the task at hand. The exception is when there are so many of them that they actually confuse me, and I get frustrated trying to figure out what the author is trying to say. In those cases I just give up and move on to another story.

As for me personally, I have found there is a hierarchy of annoying-ness:

1) A little bit annoying: Grammar mistakes

2) Annoying: People who take it upon themselves to correct other people's grammar mistakes

3) Really annoying: People who take it upon themselves to correct MY grammar mistakes

4) Oh Man. Don't do this to me or you are in serious danger: People who take it upon themselves to correct my supposed grammar mistakes AND GET IT WRONG.

[wolfotehmoon]

Originally Posted by BigSteve6ft3

Hey, relax Teen-god. Nobody's pickin' on you. This thread is just a bunch of guys venting about a little peeve they've got. Everyone's got pet peeves and hang-ups, and for some people it's grammar. Don't take it personally.

Sorry, I go and make your post obsolete seconds BEFORE you put it up. :P *cough*

Yes you guys were talking civilly, but I am a writer, so I thought I should say somethin. Yeah I did come off a lil stressed but I'm not at all. I just think its funny when people complain about something there getting for free.. You can't complain about free, because its free haha

That's all I'm saying

[RPM]

Actually, I've never understood why improvement and excellence should cease in parallel with the cost of something.

[mordre_t]

Originally Posted by RPM

Actually, I've never understood why improvement and excellence should cease in parallel with the cost of something.

I've also never understood why money is assumed to be the only measure of value or reward, or why some people admit they have a weakness or a deficiency yet angrily or defensively refuse to improve on it.

Writing is a craft. Everyone makes mistakes. The odd punctuation error, malapropism, or misspelling is fine (and some things, like the Oxford comma I just used, are more matters of taste than rules per se). Grammatical or syntactical disaster zones, though, are annoying and tedious to wade through. Serious problems in these areas can obscure or confuse meaning, too.

If a story is really poorly written from a technical standpoint, I'll usually stop reading out of frustration or confusion. It's no one's loss but my own, if we're looking at it purely as a value exchange, but still. If you're posting a story to a story-sharing community, it's implied you'd like people to read it and enjoy it, and consistently bad writing is an impediment to that. It's like if this was a photography board and someone always posted out-of-focus snaps. Correct writing helps the reader form a sharper image in the mind's eye.

Yeah that makes sense, I do make a ton of errors but I also have improved a bunch. Look up my first story "Zach Gets Huge" Under the username musclegod300 and compare it to my stories now.

I do take advice from you guys, I guess what I'm trying to say is though.. it just gets to me when you guys get like super upset at an author about this stuff. I am trying, like I said I failed lit in high school (except for creative writing)
So don't ever expect some gammer and spelling perfect masterpiece

[wolfotehmoon]

Originally Posted by mordre_t

I've also never understood why money is assumed to be the only measure of value or reward, or why some people admit they have a weakness or a deficiency yet angrily or defensively refuse to improve on it.

Writing is a craft. Everyone makes mistakes. The odd punctuation error, malapropism, or misspelling is fine (and some things, like the Oxford comma I just used, are more matters of taste than rules per se). Grammatical or syntactical disaster zones, though, are annoying and tedious to wade through. Serious problems in these areas can obscure or confuse meaning, too.

If a story is really poorly written from a technical standpoint, I'll usually stop reading out of frustration or confusion. It's no one's loss but my own, if we're looking at it purely as a value exchange, but still. If you're posting a story to a story-sharing community, it's implied you'd like people to read it and enjoy it, and consistently bad writing is an impediment to that. It's like if this was a photography board and someone always posted out-of-focus snaps. Correct writing helps the reader form a sharper image in the mind's eye.

I also like to think of it this way: for me, anyway, the things I read affect me. I start to think, and more importantly, write in the style of whatever I was reading last, and over time, my vocabulary, grammatical accuracy (or lack thereof), even how I think starts to reflect what I've been reading. So, knowing that, can you understand why I feel this way about the quality of writing on this site (or any site)? Sorry to be blunt, but if I'm trying to build literary muscle, why would I shove the literary equivalent of Doritos down my face? I get that this is muscle growth, and that's it's, above all, a niche sexual fetish, and that if I really want to be increasing my literary aptitude, I should be reading classics or something, but while I'm here, I really don't feel like sacrificing my intellectual well-being beyond a certain extent. Everything you're exposed to affects you; be careful.

[philat99]

I hadn't intended to join this fray, but I feel strongly that this is BOTH a writers' and readers' forum. Spelling, grammar, and syntax run the gamut, not to mention style, literary form, etc. As a retired English teacher I surely find the errors. As one of you put it, the forum isn't meant to be an English classroom. True, but reading a writer's story produced with great effort and time takes on greater interest the more readable it is. That takes the time and effort to at least proofread to the best of one's skills. It is easy to discern which stories were written without the benefit of English as the first language. I overlook most errors with that in mind and go for the substance of the story. I agree, though, with many of those posting on this thread, that many misspellings are due to homophones in English which traditionally cause many excellent writers to err occasionally. I guess that it's just the repetitious errors that can make for tedious reading.
Also, to say that this is not the place to find professional writing is misled. As evident from previous posts, there are many professional as well as amateur writers using their skills to entertain those of us who thoroughly enjoy reading the the fruits of some really fertile imaginations.
Mike

[Ender]

I have a few annoying grammar flubs too

"your" the possessive of you and "you're" the contraction of you are...

"affect" a verb, to act on something and "effect" a noun the result of an action.

"regardless" the correct term for without regard and not "irregardless" a double negative that would mean without without regard which reduces to with regard...

"were" the plural of was and "we're" contraction for we are

Ender

[muscl4life]

First of all, sorry about the immense amount of errors you'll find in my stories. Some of them are just typos, others are really result of my ignorance, which is a great thing, though, because I am always looking to learn new things.

As a non-native english speaker, I am always trying to improve my own vocabulary and grammar skills to express my thoughts and beliefs as close to my own idiom as possible. Sometimes, I may just try too hard and the result is artificial, but i can't say that the effort to improve my writing isn't worth to try. The hardest part for me, however, is not the formal construction, because I practice it more often, the greatest challenge is not just "slang"(is it correct? ) but finding a way to insert all kind of "informal speech" resources to build a story which at the same time is imaginative and has good reading flow.

My greatest happiness, however, is that such challenge is not exclusive for me, a humble non-native english writer, but in fact an universal anxiety that assaults all writers, regardless the language in which they chose to express their ideas.

So, I once again apoligise for the many mistakes you'll find in my stories. I can only promess you that I'll try my best next time.

Cheers,

[xythan_shadow]

I also wasn't going to get into this, but what the hell.

As a writer (on the days that I feel like I'm a writer), I find it very important to watch my spelling and grammar when I'm writing. I want to convey what's in my mind to the best of my ability, but also keep my reader's attention. I have a hard enough time of doing that without minor things like spelling and grammar getting in the way, especially when I can just press F7.

Between keeping the lines straight and fixing any plot holes and trying to find a synomyn for "huge" that I haven't used yet, it gets slightly tough, but it's worth it when I read over the section for the 7th time and am happy with what I read. (And yes, I usually read over my stuff at least 5 times before I post it.)

[Ender]

For what it's worth...

It was not my intention to target anyone regarding spelling and grammar... I was just a venting few mis-usage pet peeves that are common here and in American English in general...

Once upon a time I read a couple of books by noted television and radio journalist Edwin Newman, Strictly Speaking and A Civil Tongue, that generally well-regarded and and were best-selling studies of language and its abuses. If you can find them they're sort of a fun read...

Ender

[philat99]

English has often been described by linguists as one of the most difficult languages to master given the lack of "endings" so common in foreign languages to indicate parts of speech, e.g. noun or verb, adjective or adverb, etc. Add to that the many examples noted in the above posts and it's nearly a miracle that so many of our students really do achieve mastery at some point.On the other hand, so many never do! That speaks volumes for the ever lowering graduation rates from many of our high schools, as well as the struggle to achieve in college.

By the way, Ender, effect can be used as either noun or verb. What can I say? It just doesn't seem to make sense.

Mike

[OnyxFaith]

So can "affect," for that matter.

[Jaypat]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

Oh, my. The Forum offers endless examples.

Lately one of my favorites is "defiantly" used for "definitely..." Actually, I half suspect the author "definitely" knows the meaning of each and is "defiantly" choosing to pretend otherwise.

Ok, I have to say something about this one because it?s a problem I have. Word has a tendency to auto correct me. If I spell ?definitely? incorrectly while I'm typing, Word changes it to "defiantly". Word doesn't notify me, it just does it, and I frequently miss it. Very frustrating.[COLOR=#000000][/COLOR]

[musqlure]

Originally Posted by Ender

"affect" a verb, to act on something and "effect" a noun the result of an action.

But don't forget that "effect" can also be used as a verb in the right circumstances, as in "to effect change."

[Spooky]

Originally Posted by nypup2train

I'm sorry, I know this isn't really the place for such nit-pickery, and most people (readers, I mean) don't give a crap. It just seems like this one has been spreading like a cancer, lately. I feel like I have to do something before it gets any worse.

Traditionally, as it was drilled into me:

The past tense of the verb lead, l-e-a-d (pronounced "leehd") is led, l-e-d. No a. Lead is "lehd" when it's a noun, meaning the soft metal.

...Also, you "wrack" your brain. With a w. That's the expression. While a brain, like weights, could be racked -- meaning set down on rack -- I'm pretty sure it would have to be removed from your body first. Thus, a difficult trick with your own brain. Yes, the definition of "wrack" is "place on a rack", but that's referring to the medieval torture device... hence the expression!

I know, I know, I could go on forever listing more, and I promise not to. But the lead/led thing has been driving me batty. Thanks.

P.S> Note, also, that in some dictionaries (especially online ones) you'll find both lead and led listed as being interchangeable for the past tense of lead ("leehd"). There's a trend among dictionaries in recent years to surrender to common mistakes and make them canon. That, too, frustrates me. But, given that unfortunate fact, you could suport an argument that the "lead" past-tense usage is correct. I concede that. It'll just continue to grate on me, and I'll simply have to suffer.

Yeah, I've seen this in MG and heard it in real life

Something is never broke. Something can only be broken. Subsequently, you're car cannot be broke. You can only say that your car is broken, or that you only have a "broken car".

You can't have a gold earring. You have gold_en earrings.

And not wood furniture. You have wooden furniture.

And not lead muscle. Leaden muscle.

Etc etc etc etc etc

[z129]

This might be controversial for some, but I find it off putting to constantly read about the measurements of a fictional character's physique. I mean, even in a story set in the Middle Ages an author might mention a knight's 37" traps and 42" calves, as if they had tape measurements back then! I'm not very good with numbers, and I find a story so much more interesting if colorful adjectives, analogies, metaphors, etc. are used instead of raw data.