A supplement with these characteristics?

[darkknight]

Sup. I might be posting this in the wrong forum, and if I did Im sorry.

I was wonderin if one of you guys could help me pick a good supplement. Im 25, been lifting for about 2 years and although Im very disciplined about meals and such, and ive seen some giant changes on my body in that time, I'd love to kick it up a notch. I wanna keep gaining muscle/weight and strength and be huge!

So Im looking for the right supplement to use, maybe one that has these characteristics.

I don't want to take steroids, nothing that's illegal or is injected (Im a pussy about that), but I want something that boosts testosterone. Im interested in muscle growth, and don't mind at all the side effect associated with test supplements (I wouldn't mind things like body hair growth for instance; im pretty hairless and itd be cool to get some fuzz ).

What'd be a good supp to use? Any recommendations?

[drew]

There are none that work. There are a few pro-test herbs but you'd have to take so much of them to be effective that you'd risk toxicity and spend hundreds of dollars a month and be swallowing pills all day.

Instead REALLY look at your diet. Are you eating enough protein (your body weight times 3-4 equals the grams you need per day) and getting enough calories (depending on your metabolism 5-10,000 extra calories?

Are you missing any vitamins or minerals in your diet? Are you eating anything with Soy in it (don't if you're a guy it makes your test crash and your estro skyrocket).

Are you drinking enough water? Are you getting 8 or so hours of sleep a night?

[darkknight]

Hey thanks for the reply.

I think the basics of diet, workout and rest are fine. I HAVE been growing more or less steadily for a good while. I was asking because I thought there might be something that could help speed up the process. I'm also asking because I once took Halodrol Liquigels from Gaspari and I remember it worked really well. I wanted to know if there's any other supps like that, but stronger.

[ilimzn]

I wouldn't be so sure about 'not minding the side effects of testosterone' as one of the side effects of boosting it, is downregulatiopn of your own. In time this would make such a supplement ineffective, and then when you stop using it, you would end up wioth lower testosterone (if it worked as well as real test, you could also end up with none).
Secondly, increased testosterone = increased estrogen. (Unless you are obese) nearly all estrogen in the male body is manufactured from wnat the body views as 'excess' testosterone. Extra estrogen, being the female hormone, is very much NOT welcome in the male body. It has a bunch of side effects you REALLY don't want.
So, 'not mibnding the side effects of testosterone' may end up with you having excess fat, no sex drive, bitch tits, acne and high blood pressure. The hair growth comes from testosterone converting into DHT, and of all the side effects, that would be the least problematic one (except that it actually tends to make you lsoe hair on your head and gain it everywhere else).
My point: all of this is actually preventable, usig the same methods that would be used if you were actually taking steroids. Even for someone who is not, the same methods would provide a boost in your own test, but ot nearly as much as the real stuff. Although the substances in question are pharmaceuticals, they are not steroids, so they are not illegal, but they do require perscription. There are some herbal etc. 'mimics' but as drew said, to get any effect, it becomes extremely expensive, and dangerous (because they also do lots of other things you don't want).

[darkknight]

Ah, all right.

Yeah I supposed that was more or less the answer I was going to get, but I wanted to confirm if there was something on the market I wasn't aware of (I just recently heard of HGH).

Thanks a bunch anyway!

[ilimzn]

Originally Posted by darkknight

Ah, all right.

Yeah I supposed that was more or less the answer I was going to get, but I wanted to confirm if there was something on the market I wasn't aware of (I just recently heard of HGH).

Thanks a bunch anyway!

HGH is a different beast altogether. It's not a steroid, but rather a peptide hormone (a complex chain of amino-acids). IGF and Insulin are also in this group.
There is some controversy whether HGH actually works for itself in promoting muscle growth. Studies have shown that it's a precursor of sorts for IGF-1 and this, in turn has been proven to promote muscle growth. However, nothing hormonal in the body can be viewed as a separate entity - hormones normally work in concert with each other. Effects of HGH/IGF-1 and Insulin as pertains to muscle growth are best viewed when these work with steroids (or, A steroid, that being the most obvious choice normally produced in the body, testosterone - this is how things would normally work). It should be noted that none of the peptide hormones promote testosterone production in a strict sense. Sometimes this sort of claim is made, but it is based on the huge increase in concentration of various hormones during puberty. It would however be wrong to claim one hormone promotes the other, just due to a state where increase is observed for many hormones - just observing it does ot give a clue as to what causes what, in fact, the workings of puberty in terms of 'why and how' at the exact given moment, are still largely unknown.

There are many supplements that claim an increase in production of various hormones. They may or may n ot, depending on a whole lot of other circumstances, but when they do, the effect is everything but dramatic - if there is one at all. They are all based on containing the raw material used to synthesize the hormones in question, so the premise is something like, if you give an engine better fuel, it will crank out more horsepower. This would occur only if the 'engine', or in this case, the human body, was somehow already ready and primed to do that work, but lacking the fuel, which is usually NOT so, if you are doing all the other things right. In other words, there is a whole lot of 'wishful thinking' behind the basic idea of these supplements, which will give you an idea of how effective they are. If you are in a state of chronic overtraining, they may well work as this state implies that something which the body needs is missing, but than you are already working against yourself, and with these supplements it will only be slightly less against yourself, rather than reversing this into a positive trend. less bad does not automatically mean good in this context.

[hulkjackson]

Powerful stuff? My cousin and I are avid bodybuilders (not pro caliber guys) and have been avoiding for years to use steroids (at 42, you think a lot about the risks), but after using the Dr Max Testosterone Boost we have seen our strength and lean body mass skyrocket. Best of all? No dangerous or noticeable side effects. This is the real deal.

[ilimzn]

And with only 3 posts, this sounds a lot like an ad! But, as they say, YMMV. I'm certainly not going to diss on something i have not tried, although I have tried a lot of things so I am inclined to believe I do see the general trend...
Simply put, if you have the moneym, and want to know for sure, try it. Even a negative result is a result and tells you what (not) to do, a whole lot better than having no idea at all.

[nypup2train]

Especially when you notice that all 3 posts do nothing but talk up the same product.

Still, it's "on-topic" and he didn't post any commercial links. So, while I have a problem with it personally, I've avoided treating his posts as actual spam... thus far.

[FuzzyKB]

Originally Posted by darkknight

Sup. I might be posting this in the wrong forum, and if I did Im sorry.

I was wonderin if one of you guys could help me pick a good supplement. Im 25, been lifting for about 2 years and although Im very disciplined about meals and such, and ive seen some giant changes on my body in that time, I'd love to kick it up a notch. I wanna keep gaining muscle/weight and strength and be huge!

So Im looking for the right supplement to use, maybe one that has these characteristics.

I don't want to take steroids, nothing that's illegal or is injected (Im a pussy about that), but I want something that boosts testosterone. Im interested in muscle growth, and don't mind at all the side effect associated with test supplements (I wouldn't mind things like body hair growth for instance; im pretty hairless and itd be cool to get some fuzz ).

What'd be a good supp to use? Any recommendations?

The concept here is money versus effect with safety as a factor you weigh in.

There are a few things that do have some positive effects, at the same time many of those that are effective will cause a positive on steroid testing just as if you were on juice.

The reason that many pros use juice is simply because it is the cheapest and most effective. Yes, it can be done with a few of the supplements, but as with anything else there is always some risk.

The only thing I can tell you is that doing things that work that are at this point legal will cost you 2-3 times what juice would.

I am not endorsing the usage of illegal substances in any manner just pointing out simple fact.

We have had good luck with some stuff from primordeal performance. It is not as effective as the more questionable substances but there is enough going on to prove that it does have some positive effects.

Good luck!