Occult Sciences As An Aid to Bodybuilding.

[Big Jake]

I'm running an experiment to see if engaging occult forces will help bodybuilders to grow. If anyone's interested I'd be more than happy to share the bits and peices I've managed to put together so far. All I ask for is any feedback on the process, ideas, criticisims, that sort of thing. If you're interested please feel free to go to my profile and use one of my chat programs to contact me. I know. I can see the sneers of some of your faces. Hey you don't know till you try, and anything that gives a bodybuilder an edge w/o side effects is always an A in my book.

[Shahrazad2]

Interesting idea... I have some thoughts about this, but mostly they're for stories and RP sessions, not in reality. Also, the problem with occult, paranormal, supernatural, magical, mystical energies, etc is that they're somewhat difficult to test. If one was going to get data on how occult practices helped someone with bodybuilding, wouldn't one need a "control" experiment... like an identical twin with a similar lifestyle... in order to get a good idea... or a larger number of people in your study? Also, if magic becomes rote and common, or is used for everyday, repeated, situations, it's no longer magic, really (I know, it'd be really nice to use magic to change red lights to green, decorate the house, clean up, etc) but doing so over and over again would take all the excitement and wonder from it (contrary to Samantha's nose and Sabrina's sparkles). Still, it might be interesting to compare ideas... and as a starting point, I'd look into the Hindu concept of Avatars, the idea of totems and attendant spirits, and the loa possession/horses of the Vodoun traditions. It seems like it'd be better to work through a spirit that provides better guidance in muscle growth than to magically convert one's body from one state to another.

[V.R.Goh]

Calling spirits is a tricky situation that should not be taken lightly. Just as there is good and evil in humans, so it is with spirits. Magic, as well, is a double-edged sword.

Still, it is possible to incorporate the occult in bodybuilding if it is done right.

[Gene]

Sigh! If people put as much energy into studying and adhereing to nutrition, exercise and logical thinking as they do to magic and wishful thinking then they might actually make progress and we'd get out of the middle-ages.

[V.R.Goh]

Don't count it as "wishful thinking" just yet. What I was referring to was using meditation to incorporate the mind into shaping the body. Any personal trainer, bodybuilder, weightlifter, or exercise guru will tell you that the proper mindset is just as crucial to physical fitness as diet and exercise.

[Gene]

Then "occult" is not the correct word.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/occult

And "occult sciences" is an oxymoron.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oxymoron

Whereas, "mental dicipline" would be more appropriate, and I applaud that approach.

[V.R.Goh]

I'm just gonna come out and say it, though I should have said this before. Using the occult in bodybuilding is virtually impossible. Most texts that would be considered part of the occult have the desired goal as increasing one's wealth or attracting a lover, among others. Improving one's physical state through exercise was not something that was addressed by, for example, the Key of Solomon.

The appropriate "occult" technique that can be incorporated into a bodybuilding lifestyle from the ones that I know of is meditation. Here is something I want you to do every day:

Stand in front of a full-length mirror. If you don't have one in your home, use one that shows as much of your body as possible. If possible, do this while wearing as little as possible. Visualize that the reflection you see in the mirror has the kind of physical development that you want. Go into as much detail as you can with every single muscle. Keep that image in your mind as you workout, as you eat, and as you take whatever supplements (if any) that you are taking in order to achieve this goal. When you feel yourself slipping, bring this image back and do what you need to do (within reason, of course) to make this image a reality.

Spells and prayers can only take you so far. Unless you put the conscious physical effort into bodybuilding, you might as well be talking to yourself.

[JeffXeno]

Originally Posted by Gene

Then "occult" is not the correct word.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/occult

And "occult sciences" is an oxymoron.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/oxymoron

Whereas, "mental dicipline" would be more appropriate, and I applaud that approach.

Exactly correct. There is no such thing as occult sciences because that's just like saying you are going to use "black magic science" to help build muscle. Science has never found any credible evidence of magic that acts in or on the natural world; not one single claim of magic has ever been confirmed by the scientific method. What science largely does is move phenomenon labeled magic by humans (aka: things humans don't yet understand), to phenomenon added to the collection of human knowledge figured out by science (aka: not magic).

On the plus side, if anyone can prove that magic can enhance bodybuilding efforts, that person or team should apply for the $1,000,000 prize from the James Randi Education Foundation. That way you can make a million Dollars before you sell your magic to the millions of gullible people who would pay through the nose for it.

Jeff

[brutus]

All this trying to put-down the idea of this thread over modern, dictionary-based semantics seems very myopic in my view. After all, modern science as we know it grew out of alchemy (an occult science.) The reason most scientific disciplines have a para-science aspect (i.e. astronomy has astrology, and chemistry has alchemy, etc) is that the modern "science" was born out of the ancient arts. To me, sticking to one side without listening to the findings of the other is only listening to half of the story. Maybe I am just a romantic, or some crazy new-ager?

At any rate. My understanding of magick is that it involves intension, and attraction. A magick spell is a way of purifying & intensifying your intension, then putting forth words, and symbols to attract what you intend. It's no different from meditating on a vision-board like they recommended in the movie The Secret. I have found that when I meditate, use a spell, or keep a strong intension, then things really start to happen. This is when I've experienced serendipity, when I've met great trainers, or new friends at the gym, or even find a new supplement that seems to work better. To me magick is NOT just drinking a potion & then inflating with muscle, it is setting your intension, then using every level of your psyche, and every tool at the disposal of Source to execute that intension.

I see no difference between performing a spell before you workout, then meditating on growth after you get home, and setting the intension of arriving safely at your destination right before you drive your car. So yes I am intrigued. If you don't believe in magick, or that the occult can help in any way, then why even respond to this post? Just to put down those who have faith in more than logic?

[Gene]

Originally Posted by brutus

All this trying to put-down the idea of this thread over modern, dictionary-based semantics seems very myopic in my view. After all, modern science as we know it grew out of alchemy (an occult science.) The reason most scientific disciplines have a para-science aspect (i.e. astronomy has astrology, and chemistry has alchemy, etc) is that the modern "science" was born out of the ancient arts. To me, sticking to one side without listening to the findings of the other is only listening to half of the story. Maybe I am just a romantic, or some crazy new-ager?

At any rate. My understanding of magick is that it involves intension, and attraction. A magick spell is a way of purifying & intensifying your intension, then putting forth words, and symbols to attract what you intend. It's no different from meditating on a vision-board like they recommended in the movie The Secret. I have found that when I meditate, use a spell, or keep a strong intension, then things really start to happen. This is when I've experienced serendipity, when I've met great trainers, or new friends at the gym, or even find a new supplement that seems to work better. To me magick is NOT just drinking a potion & then inflating with muscle, it is setting your intension, then using every level of your psyche, and every tool at the disposal of Source to execute that intension.

I see no difference between performing a spell before you workout, then meditating on growth after you get home, and setting the intension of arriving safely at your destination right before you drive your car. So yes I am intrigued. If you don't believe in magick, or that the occult can help in any way, then why even respond to this post? Just to put down those who have faith in more than logic?

As I said, I applaud mental dicipline which is basically what you just described.

[JeffXeno]

Originally Posted by Gene

As I said, I applaud mental dicipline which is basically what you just described.

Sounds mostly like meditation to me (usually a good thing), with a little bit of New Age woo thrown in for good measure (or bad measure depending on your view of reality). Some people seem inexplicably drawn to woo. Humanity will make a great step forward if we could ever figure why so many are so inclined, and how to successfully counteract that instinct.

Jeff

[Gene]

Originally Posted by JeffXeno

Sounds mostly like meditation to me (usually a good thing), with a little bit of New Age woo thrown in for good measure (or bad measure depending on your view of reality). Some people seem inexplicably drawn to woo. Humanity will make a great step forward if we could ever figure why so many are so inclined, and how to successfully counteract that instinct.

Jeff

Not exactly identical topics but the philosophy is relevant. From journalist H. L. Mencken

"Once more, alas, I find myself unable to follow the best Liberal thought. What the World's contention amounts to, at bottom, is simply the doctrine that a man engaged in combat with superstition should be very polite to superstition. This, I fear, is nonsense. The way to deal with superstition is not to be polite to it, but to tackle it with all arms, and so rout it, cripple it, and make it forever infamous and ridiculous. Is it, perchance, cherished by persons who should know better? Then their folly should be brought out into the light of day, and exhibited there in all its hideousness until they flee from it, hiding their heads in shame.
True enough, even a superstitious man has certain inalienable rights. He has a right to harbor and indulge his imbecilities as long as he pleases, provided only he does not try to inflict them upon other men by force. He has a right to argue for them as eloquently as he can, in season and out of season. He has a right to teach them to his children. But certainly he has no right to be protected against the free criticism of those who do not hold them. . . . They are free to shoot back. But they can't disarm their enemy.


The meaning of religious freedom, I fear, is sometimes greatly misapprehended. It is taken to be a sort of immunity, not merely from governmental control but also from public opinion. A dunderhead gets himself a long-tailed coat, rises behind the sacred desk, and emits such bilge as would gag a Hottentot. Is it to pass unchallenged? If so, then what we have is not religious freedom at all, but the most intolerable and outrageous variety of religious despotism. Any fool, once he is admitted to holy orders, becomes infallible. Any half-wit, by the simple device of ascribing his delusions to revelation, takes on an authority that is denied to all the rest of us. . . . What should be a civilized man's attitude toward such superstitions? It seems to me that the only attitude possible to him is one of contempt. If he admits that they have any intellectual dignity whatever, he admits that he himself has none. If he pretends to a respect for those who believe in them, he pretends falsely, and sinks almost to their level. When he is challenged he must answer honestly, regardless of tender feelings.

• "Aftermath" in the Baltimore Evening Sun (14 September 1925)"

[JeffXeno]

Originally Posted by Gene

Not exactly identical topics but the philosophy is relevant. From journalist H. L. Mencken

H. L. Mencken was one of the great observers, and commenters on human society and behavior. Nice quote, and I think it fits well here.

Jeff