Petrol Prices

[CelticMuscle]

I realise that following Hurricane Katrina, there's been a debate about petrol prices in the US (following reports of over $3 a gallon), but here in the UK petrol prices are nearer $7.60 a gallon, and this is the reason why

[UKBeefy]

It also explains when Crude oil increases in price our pump prices don't spike in the way US prices do because so much of the price is tax/duty.

I would love for a day to change all US prices to our price and see the look of total panic on people's faces when they realise that filling their Chevy Suburban is going to cost about $150+.

I do really think that alot of the carping over the US gas price is just that. After all though people think gas is expensive in real terms it is still cheaper than in previous oil crises eg early 70s and late 70s/early 80s. If people were really bothered about the cost of gas they would choose much smaller cars and stop using trucks/SUVs and also follow the European trend to use modern turbo diesel engines in larger cars and trucks. It amazes me that most pick up trucks in the US run on petrol....

I've read that if gas prices hit $5 a gallon then that will be a tipping point but GM/Ford etc will fight tooth and nail to make sure that never happens.

[glammaman2000]

...(US)has gone stark,raving,stupid.I remember after the last oil crisis,people assumed that after more fuel-efficient cars became available;the change would be PERMANENT;because why would you want a LESS fuel-efficient car,even if the price of gas went down?Meanwhile,GM/Ford once again proceeds to shoot itself in the foot by producing huge gas-guzzlers(higher profit margin)while Japan can't produce hybrids fast enough to keep up with the orders!Maybe George Jr.should go throw up on them...

[Gene]

The only smart thing General Motors ever did was start making the Saturn. Great little vehicle but it's treated as a joke here. However, people want big comfortable cars here in the US.

Remember we have a HUGE country compared to any European country. Long distances, great roads between cities, and people travel by car a LOT here. Some people commute to work distances as large as some countries in Europe. A great many people who work in Washington DC live in West Viginia or central Pennsylvania (100 miles) one-way to either place.

Goods are also carried by road between all these widely separated cities, more so than by rail.

All this will change when gas gets high enough but you're right, the auto makers here can't see the writing on the wall and will drown before they let go of the anchors that are dragging them down.

The corporate genius is the one who lays corporate plans beyond his own retirement.

[glammaman2000]

...it's hard to fit a butt the size of a Volkswagon into a Saturn.

[garrix]

Originally Posted by Gene

The only smart thing General Motors ever did was start making the Saturn. Great little vehicle but it's treated as a joke here. However, people want big comfortable cars here in the US.

I LOVE my saturn. Its done so well for me. I wish it was more gas efficient (but consitering its not a hybrid it does good) Its small, but safe as well. When i got rear ended at 45+ miles an hour, (stopped) it did good. crumpled up like an accordian and i was just fine. We went and bought a new one with the insurance money. They shouldnt be treated as a joke- they're good cars!

But back to the gas issue. Seems there's gotta be some gauging going on higher up. I've heard that the oil companies are making greater profits today than they ever have. Yeah, Americans are stubburn with the SUVs. The problem is, folks, that everyone has some inborn stupidity in them, so many otherwise intelligent people run out and buy SUVs. My friends are now paying 50-60+ $$ to fill the tank (its still 25-28$ with my saturn) Supposedly it should reach (where i am in the west) up over 4 dollars a gallon before the year's end. (and prices were supposed to go DOWN after summer) anyway- already some areas of the country, chicago i hear, its up to 4 bucks.

[garrix]

damn, i should really preview my posts before hand... i forget you cant edit anymore. Pardon the poor quality of the previous post, then.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

...it's hard to fit a butt the size of a Volkswagon into a Saturn.

That's true! I get so disgusted by the unbelievable blubber butts I see waddling around or riding their little electric lard mobiles in the store isles. When your bum cheeks are each the size of a baby hippo it's time to admit you're FAT and do something about it. And for god's sake don't wear spandex!

NO, for 99.9% of obese people it is NOT a disease! And NO we should not be paying their medical bills.

[Gene]

Sorry, last post was a bit of a rant and not on topic. Big vehicles are a necessity for those blubber butts. I don't know what they'll do when the 1975 Cadillacs finally all rust away. Just think of the gas needed to move a 400 pound person in a 3 ton vehicle.

[glammaman2000]

,,,,one big gland HERE(left cheek)&another big gland HERE(right cheek)!Back when folks might have been asked to make some small sacrifice for the common good:gas taxes went UP when the cost of gas was high,to encourage conservation.The current model is to spend like a drunken sailor&then quit the Navy.

[hulkmuscle]

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

The current model is to spend like a drunken sailor&then quit the Navy.

Great line, can I appropriate that one sometime?

Any Prius owners here? They're kinda cute...

[glammaman2000]

More from our beloved ruling party:They weren't in any hurry to evacuate the poor in New Orleans;but now that reconstruction contracts are getting passed out,they're on it like white on rice(Halliburton's already got one!)Because it's an emergency,there's no competitive bidding&the gov't can just pass it out to anybody they choose(kinda like agency chairmanships).&supreme incompetento el Busho just signed an executive order stating that:because it's an emergency;THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY MINIMUM WAGE!!!Recovery,my ass.

[UKBeefy]

What I sometimes find baffling is that even if you've lived in the US all your life and you know not/care little about the price of gas in Europe/Japan would you not just still want to save spending alot on gas. Even at $2 a gallon surely there is some incentive to not by a SUV that does 15mpg if there is another vehicle that does 30mpg - ie you halve your fuel cost at whatever price point you are considering.

Maybe there is an acceptable level of fuel spending that equates to say $40 or ?25 a week in each country and people choose their vehicles up to that level. In Europe we choose a modern compact sitck shift turbo diesel car (eg a VW Golf/Ford Focus) that does 45mpg and a US person chooses a large automatic SUV that does 18mpg and both end up costing the same.

What amuses me is the number of large suvs and trucks driven by one person on a daily commute - hardly making best use of the vehicle.

[Marco_ukmus]

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

They weren't in any hurry to evacuate the poor in New Orleans;but now that reconstruction contracts are getting passed out,they're on it like white on rice(Halliburton's already got one!)

Yeah, I maybe all the way over here in the UK, but the BBC were nuturally doing a good job covering it as per usual. Humm, I could not believe some of Mr Bush's speechs. Every single statement almost had practically large statements about the gas lines, it kinda came across as though getting gas to the rest of the american people in the rest of the un-affected states was somehow more important than getting supplies to poor people, which indeed appeared to be mainly black. Now of course, it could be just the way the BBC reported and edited it, but thats the impression i got. And if i got that impression, thena lot of others do. Let's face it, gas is the drive behind any country. If you have problems with gas, then you have problems moving food and supplies of any nature to people. It's sad but it's true. Though i think trying to get people to use less gas kinda spurs people only to top-up their tanks (we've seen it happen here many times in the uk).
Of course, some americans defend the way in which the entire thing was handled and back up Mr Bush, stating that after all, why are we to judge since we should perhaps try evactuating two states the size of the UK in a few days and getting food to it. I guess in many ways, good point, but I personally believe they still could have done better. Hell, the USA, the super power of the world, surely has enough food, enough resourses and army persons to sort this thing out in a moments notice... I know one should not compare events, but people are and will, the USA sent supplies to the tsunami victims super fast, but yet supplies were delayed reaching affected states on their own doorstep, thats why i think a lot of people cant help but wonder if politics had gotten in the way of saving lives... The main problem is, if a counrty as a whole, and im not talking everyday people here, politains constantly boast about how great their country is compared to everyone elses, when something goes wrong, and there is a failure in sorting it out to any degree, people do point the fingure...

As for as the usage of cars goes, well everyone likes to have their own personal space. No one wants to share space with strangers, although, many of us do on public transport. What i have seen an increase of here in the UK is more and more inappropriate cars. For those of you who don't know, UK roads are a LOT smaller than USA roads and thus one would think you'd stick with more appropriate sized cars. But now more and more people are buying cars of american size here and they take up so much bloody room! not to mention the certain death any victim will have if someone is hit by them... Kinda pisses me off actually! but, hell, it's not like i can change things. But all this means is more fuel is needed for day to day trips and more crap is put out into the air for all of us to breath in... oh well.

Right, Just hope i have not offended anyone, particually those that adore Mr Bush. I know America is a great country, and you know i do like americans. So, my views are not a dig at the american people, but i do have problems, like i know many of you have, with the guy who is running it, or not as the case maybe.

Marc

[deetrakt]

UKBeefy:
What you say about US driving habits/priorities makes sense in the urban Northeast and Middle Atlantic, where mass transit and commuter rail are well-established and distances between home and work are shorter.

However, in much of suburban America, in the sunbelt (Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc.) and in southern California, people spend so much of their lives in their cars (you do not want to try getting around LA or San Diego by mass transit) and often live so far from their work, that they tend to think of their cars as you might about homes and act accordingly, stretching their purchase and fuel budget for "comfort". And they have no realistic alternatives yet. As some of these areas are finally starting to develop mass transit, things will hopefully begin to change.

Others:
As for Bush, just try to remember that many Americans (almost half) did not vote for him and fewer now support him (if you can believe current polls). Speaking for myself, I don't take criticism of him or this administration personally--just don't appreciate it when non-Americans cite them as evidence of what "Americans" and "America" are like.

Neither I nor any of many of my friends blamed "Brits" for Margaret Thatcher, even though she dominated British political life for many years and while considerably smarter than Bush made him seem like a humanitarian by comparison.

[UKBeefy]

The thing that scared me about the Bush/Federal response to New Orleans was the highly militaristic nature of it - yes they sent in the National Guard but did they need all that armed vehicles and tinted visor headgear/heavy guns at the ready on each infantryman. It looked more like Iraq! I suppose we are not used to the need/requirement for an armed response in a civilian situation.

I think any country's government tends to be slow to react in a crisis...After all the UK government made similar slow decisions with the Foot and Mouth Crisis that took over the whole the countryside and paralized alot of the country. I think those in power and the acolytes who serve them are loathe to quickly admit or tell a president/prime minister something has gone hugely wrong somewhere and action is needed that hour. There is a natural tendency to play down a problem until it is impossible to ignore.

What is difficult for us outsiders to comprehend is how the Federal system works and whether in previous disasters it has worked more seamlessly than in New Orleans. The UK is a much more centralised country albeit we have nominally separate police forces by region. We have no or few local or regional officials who play any public role or have any power to mirror the US.

[glammaman2000]

SUV's became popular because the thinking in the U.S.had gone from,"How can you avoid an accident?"to"Someday you will be in an accident!"&I wanna be in a bigger car.&of course,SUV's were an instant hit with drug dealers,who might at some point in their careers want to ram a police vehicle.Kinda like pit bulls.

[glammaman2000]

...the National Guard got there REALLY late.We're lucky they didn't stop to buy new outfits.

[UKBeefy]

I remember reading recently that the biggest problem for car designers/safety engineers now - especially those aiming at the US market is compatability between vehicles. It is relatively straightforward to design cars to contain impacts with other cars but very difficult to design a car to crumple effectively against a SUV or a pick up truck as the heights and "hard points" are at different levels/positions. Also many trucks and truck based SUVs sit on very simple ladder chassis that must act like a battering ram in a crash...

Somehow there is as you say this mentality that driving an ordinary modern car is now "unsafe" on US roads given the increasing presence of very heavy/large SUVs.

I was surprised that when you see many SUVs and trucks in controlled crash tests many of them perform poorly in terms of staying in one piece/not injuring their passengers, certainly compared to cars. In Europe we have a relatively recent crash testing regime that is made public and each vehicle is given a star rating (1-5) including SUVs. Any vehicle getting below a 3 is likely to get withdrawn from sale. Are there similar published tests in the US for SUVs/trucks?