Bigorexia in the news

[DarkM]

This is not a new topic, being in the media on and off for a while. I am curious if anyone has an interest in the topic?

Do you think it gives bodybuilding a bad name? Would you consider anyone wanting to gain muscle, have some level of bigorexia? Does it come down to, what are you willing to do to get want you want? and is that worth the costs?

I do not want to offend anyone. It interests me for various reasons.


http://youtu.be/mfpQRtYWsdA

[mango]

Twenty years ago I finished 15 years of obsessive bodybuilding. I'm an obsessive person and for 15 years my life was built around that. I got into a bunch of steroids and for a very little while made all my dreams come true. Then stuff happened in my life and I stopped working out. Lost all interest in the gym. I think any obsession is an "exia" waiting for someone to give it a name. Whether it's a real disease/addiction or not is in the eye of the beholder. Was Mozart a musicalanorexic because he composed himself to death at 33. Probably. Of course obsessions are unhealthy but without them we don't try for perfection. Anybody who becomes president of the USA is some kind of exic. Of course the term by its' existence hurts serious bodybuilding. Is there something we can do about it, no, unless you're another Freud and can write a discourse on perfection and obsession in modern civilization that will fly off the bookshelves. I wouldn't worry about. A lot of countries in the world don't follow the english-speaking world on this subject of everything is a disease that needs a definition, symptoms and a cure.

[CelticMuscle]

Originally Posted by mango

Twenty years ago I finished 15 years of obsessive bodybuilding. I'm an obsessive person and for 15 years my life was built around that. I got into a bunch of steroids and for a very little while made all my dreams come true. Then stuff happened in my life and I stopped working out. Lost all interest in the gym. I think any obsession is an "exia" waiting for someone to give it a name. Whether it's a real disease/addiction or not is in the eye of the beholder. Was Mozart a musicalanorexic because he composed himself to death at 33. Probably. Of course obsessions are unhealthy but without them we don't try for perfection. Anybody who becomes president of the USA is some kind of exic. Of course the term by its' existence hurts serious bodybuilding. Is there something we can do about it, no, unless you're another Freud and can write a discourse on perfection and obsession in modern civilization that will fly off the bookshelves. I wouldn't worry about. A lot of countries in the world don't follow the english-speaking world on this subject of everything is a disease that needs a definition, symptoms and a cure.

In that case, where's my media spotlight for having psephosexia (having stood in two local elections in consective electoral cycles). Mango, you are quite right, the media have a lot to answer for.

[musclegrowthdm]

I don't think labeling is the right thing to do, but when it comes down to it. I don't think I can deny that I have thoughts in line with bigorexia often. However, I do not have the drive like Mango did. I actually wish I had the drive like Mango. It isn't that the people doing it regret it. It's that it goes over the top, and it might be hard to deal with.

But when is something easy to deal with that deals in extremes? NEVER! It's just a media thing. Some people have opinions about not ruining your body, but in all reality. It's not their body their are judging. I know for a fact that my rights end at the tip of my nose. Some people just like to talk about extremes. We are seeing it more in the media. Yes some people will judge, but I think they are just the snippets that are interesting to people. That is why it's on the news. That's my hope anyway.

[bulkybud]

It was an interesting video.
However, it combined a lot of relatively unrelated weight-training topics under the heading bigorexia: training injuries, steroid and supplement abuse, moodiness (?roid rage?? really?), into what I consider an attempt to make a big issue out of a small one.
Thanks, DarkM, for bringing this up. It?s good to see what?s being said in the media.

[DarkM]

You are welcome bulkybud.

Its seems that they are putting a lot of bad aspects of the athletic world under this category. In my opinion, what a lot of tv shows and other things in the media are portraying is the extreme lifestyles. (examples: tv shows hoarders, and my crazy obsession)

I can admire a person who know what they want to see in themselves and goes for it. What we choose to do with our own bodies is our business.

[Uskathoth]

Having a desire to improve yourself is not a mental illness. Being competitive is not a mental illness.

If you are miserable and you feel like you are a failure (skinny, fat, ugly, whatever) and the only way to avoid feeling that way is increasingly extreme (and eventually self-destructive) actions, that's a mental illness whether you are obsessing over big muscles or low body fat or anything else.

I agree that bigorexia gets lumped in with a lot of other stuff but I do not doubt that there are people out there who really do feel despair and a sense of worthlessness if they skip a workout (or eat a cracker, etc). For those people, exercise (or dieting or anything else) is just ritual to keep back their fear and shame. They aren't going to be happy unless they get to the root of their feelings and the rituals can't do that for them.

But that is one guy in...what 100,000? I have no idea of the numbers but the vast majority of people who "obsess" about exercise aren't really obsessive from a mental health perspective. They are just into what they do. And what Mango described, being really into something for a while and then eventually losing interest, that's totally normal. I think that the vast majority of people have done that at some point in their lives.

That's what I think, anyway.

[mutador]

I think it's a paradox that when you work out you're supposed to be doing it to feel better and stronger, but if you really train a lot what you get is constant pain in your muscles and tendons. For example, I listen to complaints from people that say stuff like "yesterday I trained legs, today I can't climb stairs", well what a contradiction, you're supposed to train your legs so they're stronger and you can climb stairs a lot easier, but in reality this is not what happens if you train excessively.
Isn't that something to think about? Maybe the human body is not meant to be stressed so much. I think the way to go is moderate healthy exercise, not more than 2 times a week, not going too heavy with weights, do not try to grow muscles far beyond what your genetics allow, not striving for a six-pack which is ridiculous and unhealthy, etc. All the rest is a fantasy and should probably remain like that.
And as per the media, it's the media who made us strive for bigger muscles by showing us the body models of huge muscle men since we were young, so now they're surprised we get obsessed with it.

[LeatherGryphon]

Originally Posted by mutador

... I think the way to go is moderate healthy exercise, not more than 2 times a week, not going too heavy with weights, do not try to grow muscles far beyond what your genetics allow, not striving for a six-pack which is ridiculous and unhealthy, etc. All the rest is a fantasy and should probably remain like that.
And as per the media, it's the media who made us strive for bigger muscles by showing us the body models of huge muscle men since we were young, so now they're surprised we get obsessed with it.

There was a time when men aspired to a body like Fred Astaire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Astaire
I guess it was the media that made that a desirable goal.

The problem is not the media, but is in the malleability of minds. People will follow any idea that turns them on. Is it wrong, or just the way we're wired?

Wise people recognize the dangers of excess. Weak people don't. It's just better to try to enlighten people rather than assess blame. I have no pity for people who knowingly drive full speed down a fatal road and find disaster. But I do encourage them to do it before they breed!

Extreme bodybuilding like any religion has its zealots, as long as they don't endanger other people they should be free to do as they want. Which doesn't mean that they are immune from criticism.

However, for us here in this forum to be tossing stones we need to be mindful of the glass house around us.

[schwermarko]

I will admit to the existence of a genuine "Bigorexia" as a subset of the diagnosis Body Dismorphic Disorder. The key to diagnosing this specifically is that it focuses on an imagined defect. I have met people who where quite well developed who were incapable of perceiving this reality and perpetually thought of themselves and behaved as though they were average build or slight. Not being able to recognize reality is obviously a mental condition.

Likewise there are elements of fitness like diet and exercise routines which can function as rituals for obsessive compulsive disorder patients.

Like most of these things, a primary element in diagnosing the difference between a person with drive and a person with an unhealthy compulsion is whether or not they perceive themselves to be in control of their own behavior and whether or not that behavior permits them to be a functional participant in their lives. I think it's a real stretch to say that a personal trainer and competing bodybuilder has a diagnosable mental disorder because they have a strict diet and train with the same regularity that a person employed in some other field would apply to their own job.

I would personally define an athlete as being someone who makes decisions about their body and life with a priority toward their sport. This is deemed acceptable in society when it applies to certain sports (there are after all shoulder surgeries actually NAMED after baseball players, because of the frequency and severity of shoulder injuries in the sport!) but somehow deemed unacceptable when it comes to the iron sports. I wish I understood why that is.

[DarkM]

Guess what guys, tonight on Fox they are talking about it again. Who is going to watch?

[anpuZA]

Fox? You mean the right wing news agency?

[DarkM]

Originally Posted by anpuZA

Fox? You mean the right wing news agency?

Yes, that is what I mean. lol

[Rarity]

The act of getting stronger is good for your health, and when you are older, it means you will not have problems many other unhealthy people do. Also, you will probably get a case of foxy grandpa/grandma syndrome. The only nature-related problems you'd really have to worry about are cancer or diseases that your family tends have a genetic predisposition of getting (high cholesterol, heart disease, etc). But you will most likely lower the occurrence rate of those things by staying healthy.

Originally Posted by LeatherGryphon

Extreme bodybuilding like any religion has its zealots, as long as they don't endanger other people they should be free to do as they want. Which doesn't mean that they are immune from criticism.

By that logic, anorexia is totally OK too.


They are most likely referring to the guys who:
1) use steroids
2) overfeed to the point where they are straining their cardiovascular system/raising cholesterol/etc
3) live solely for bodybuilding and nothing else
4) workout out so much that they injure themselves due to ignoring pain/obvious problems
5) manic mood centered around working out in general - OMG I MISSED WORKOUT SESSION HULK SMASH PHONE!!!
or
OMG THIS GUY GOT ON THE MACHINE I WANTED TO USE, FALCON PUNCH!!!
oooooor
OMG WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU ARE OUT OF MY FAVORITE WHEY PROTEIN??? YOU ARE GOING TO BE OUT OF EVERYTHING AFTER I WRECK THIS PLACE!!!

^^^^^^exaggeration intended just to point out that "being mildly disappointed" =/= "going batshit over small details/facts of life that get in the way/etc"

So they aren't hurting anyone but themselves. And that's obviously still a problem.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by mutador

I think it's a paradox that when you work out you're supposed to be doing it to feel better and stronger, but if you really train a lot what you get is constant pain in your muscles and tendons. For example, I listen to complaints from people that say stuff like "yesterday I trained legs, today I can't climb stairs", well what a contradiction, you're supposed to train your legs so they're stronger and you can climb stairs a lot easier, but in reality this is not what happens if you train excessively.
Isn't that something to think about? Maybe the human body is not meant to be stressed so much. I think the way to go is moderate healthy exercise, not more than 2 times a week, not going too heavy with weights, do not try to grow muscles far beyond what your genetics allow, not striving for a six-pack which is ridiculous and unhealthy, etc. All the rest is a fantasy and should probably remain like that.
And as per the media, it's the media who made us strive for bigger muscles by showing us the body models of huge muscle men since we were young, so now they're surprised we get obsessed with it.

All good points. I did deadlifts Sunday and still twinge on Wednesday! Everything you said is true, but if you want to improve, sometimes you have to push through some muscle soreness and lack of motivation. I am talking just for myself here - I lift for self improvement, and I never plan to go overboard. As far as the dream of a muscular body: what story, media, human being or ANY source, EVER said, "Men look most manly when they are out of shape: either matchstick thin or grossly overweight!" Of COURSE we want to be muscular! Look where we are!


...now spot me on this next set...thanks!

Mdlftr

[DarkM]

I recently heard this saying,
"Obsession is a word that the lazy use to describe the dedicated."

Some of us are dedicated to achieving our goals, which means we will do what we can to live as we please. To each his own.

[Rarity]

Originally Posted by DarkM

I recently heard this saying,
"Obsession is a word that the lazy use to describe the dedicated."

Some of us are dedicated to achieving our goals, which means we will do what we can to live as we please. To each his own.

Yes, some are dedicated. Some people are obsessed. And in this case, saying "to each his own" is just a weak brush off unless you mean it strictly for the dedicated bunch.

There really is a difference.

Dedication = your priories are still in order, so when something more important arises you will take care of that first. IE: family, friends, money problems, work, personal health, etc > bodybuilding

Dedication is fine, and normally others can't really tell the difference between dedication and obsession by looking just once. So they often confuse the two due to being ignorant. A therapist would most certainly not call it an unhealthy thing, because they know better. Everyone is dedicated or fond of doing one thing, so in this case "to each his/her own" works perfectly.


Obsession = you only have one source of pride (in this case it'd be bodybuilding), and anything that interrupts your scheduled will make you angry or depressed. You would eventually become so detached from the real world (which leads to other emotional/social/mental/physical problems) along with getting more and more extreme with your bodybuilding. IE: bodybuilding > almost anything

There are obviously different variations of obsession, but they all converge at one point along the way. And once they do reach that point, it's hard to come back and it also happens to be very dangerous. There's a reason why people use "obsessed" or "obsession" in a negative way. Because it's a mental fixation to the point of it being unhealthy to the obsessed one - and possibly to the people around him. No siree Bob. Not good. One bit.