Pogrom against muscle cammers

[anpuZA]

Hi

Pogrom might be a rather strong term, but there does seem to be a concerted effort by some "honest and moral" fitness (mostly natural) guys to expose those colleagues of theirs who make money via camming. So much so that some guys have completely dropped off youtube or stopped the camming, which is quite lucrative as I understand it.

What I don't get is why, in this day and age, it is even remotely considered an offense, to such an extent that guys might not place well in Bodybuilding competitions for doing it. I find that disgusting, even if the guy is actively jacking off on the net, so what?! It is his right and his body, as long as the videos can't be viewed without proper login details being generated, why on earth should it impact their professional careers at all. And why do so many think it is a cheating way of making money to support yourself in the gym? Personally I think it is bloody brilliant and if it buys you the things you need, so much the better.

On youtube there are a few guys who seem to go out of their way to expose these guys, even if they haven't done any nude / sexual videos or as in the case of Lorenzo, if they have. I'm pretty sure in Lorenzo's case it was someone who was a friend that exposed him. But then you end up on some of these channels and these opinionated twats rant and rave about how "dishonest" and "immoral" it is. There is actually one channel I am thinking about, at first I thought he was a nice dude, but as time went by I discovered he was an opinionated self righteous asshole. In any event, he has done at least two "reports" on guys who cam, one about Mat Ogus and one about Lorenzo. He claims that his followers asked him about it, but I get the distinct feeling he did both the stories unprompted.

I know you get some pretty fucking anal homophobic fuckwads out there, but the amount of vitriol aimed at the cammers seem disproportionate, to say the least.

I think most of us here would honestly say they have no issue if guys cam for money, but my question is, isn't it far enough into the future (I mean it is 2013 for fuck sake) that we can dispense with our faux reaction to cam / selfie porn?

[V.R.Goh]

I'd like to think we've come far since the days when homosexuality was considered a crime or a mental illness. But, then I remember that there are still people who hate President Obama because he's Black.

As far as muscle camming goes, I can see why it would be such a taboo, since it can be pretty much porn. Bodybuilders are already dealing with every third Joe Schmuckatelli saying they're on steroids. For some, I imagine that a bodybuilder saying, "I have a pay-per-view muscle cam show online" is tantamount to saying, "I'm a porn actor."

I'm not saying it's wrong to have to deny it, but I do understand where they're coming from.

[Mdlftr]

The public likes to think as their sports heroes as being straightforward, moral people. They have their sport in which they excel, whether it is football (American) Soccer (futbol) baseball, wrestling, gymnastics or bodybuilding.

If you're a sports figure, you are held to a higher standard by the public. If you choose to defy that convention, then you have to expect some sort of pushback.

Being a sex worker by camming is not what a sports figure is supposed to do.
Imagine the reaction of the general public if a handsome sports figure like say, New Orleans Saints Quarterback Dree Brees, who has a national television advertisement for Nyquil running right now, disrobed on prime time and started going all "Zeb Atlas" with a co star. He'd be screamed off the airwaves. Sports stars are separate from porn workers, period.

Maybe the occasional shirtless bit (remember how much flack Tim Tebow got for his slo-mo run in the rain?) but that's as far as it goes.

[schwermarko]

There is another element to this too. There are a tremendous number of what we call "creepers" that bodybuilders and strength athletes have to deal with on a daily basis,-- people who insist on asking athletes to involve themselves in a sexual behavior (camming, messaging, dominating or worship sessions) that seem to be utterly oblivious to the fact that the athlete is not interested!

I have no problems with my out-and-proud peers having fans (and even egging them on), but finding out that someone has a second, secret life in gay-for-pay bothers me viscerally. I am not sure if it is the lack of honesty, or just the thought of somebody geting desperate enough to cave in and feed the creepers because they need the cash-- But I am also circumspect enough to know that something grossing me out doesn't by necessity make it immoral.

[suma]

Perhaps some of this pressure to be upright would go away if bbing stopped trying to hard to be perceived as a sport and bbers as athletes.
What is it then?
A quasi art form, body art, male perfection pageant ?

[Ogun]

Yes Pogrom is rather a strong term considering it used to involve violence and death. *lost relatives in the Holocaust*

[bigthorsteinn]

That is kind of stupid. I just started doing webcamming on skype and doing custom videos a few weeks ago; I don't really see anything wrong with it. Look, Kai Greene is 2nd greatest bodybuilder in the world-- and there's a dvd of him fornicating with a grapefruit so I don't think it affects contest placings that much. I'll be competing again this year, and would kind of doubt it would have impact. I've invested thousands of dollars and hard work over the course of a decade to look the way I do so it's nice to make a little bit of extra money between my two other jobs for my efforts. In competitive bodybuilding there is 0 money--- and in fact you have to pay to compete at the amateur npc level.

There are some 'creepers' I've encountered that I would be weary of, but the overall majority of customers I've dealt with are courteous and grateful someone is sharing their muscle. So I guess some people can declare 'war' on camming, but in the end I doubt anyone seriously cares. Bodybuilding has a horrific reputation anyways-- it's not like it's some puritan activity.

[bigthorsteinn]

Originally Posted by suma

Perhaps some of this pressure to be upright would go away if bbing stopped trying to hard to be perceived as a sport and bbers as athletes.
What is it then?
A quasi art form, body art, male perfection pageant ?

I'd say it's an art. Not quasi art either. Taken in it's original context with an emphasis on symmetry, proportions and muscularity in relation to the Grecian ideal it is very much an art.

It is partly a male beauty pageant too-- I won't disagree there.

[arpeejay]

http://www.facebook.com/arpeejay

[bigthorsteinn]

Great post Richard. I'd say 'pogrom' is an extreme word too because it has a very specific ethnic/genocidal meaning

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

Male bodybuilding is intrinsically homoerotic. It's the celebration of the male form. No wonder, then, that it was rabidly UNpopular for most of history (ancient Greeks and Romans aside) and it was particularly frowned upon in the virulently homophobic culture of post World War II America.

But the core homoeroticism has always been there and in fact has largely paid the freight, whether it was soft-porn magazine covers, male escorts, models, or cam shows.

An activist unveiling of sex-muscle-worship-for-pay bodybuilders is so far from being a pogrom that it's just not funny. It is indeed explicitly homophobic but it only works because the poor saps being exposed are in the closet about their occupations. Comparisons with professional athletes, who make enormous salaries and prostitute themselves in a hundred other ways, are specious.

I'm hoping that the homosexual panic ("oh my god, they really exist and they're in MY locker room") that has gripped the country for the past 30 years will finally give up the ghost once the straight guys figure out that even though, yes, we like looking at hard bodies and big dicks, we're actually much less likely to sexually act out than they are.

In the meantime, folks should get a grip.

xoxo

Richard

I guess like most good discussion strands on the internet, a blend of opinion loudly asserted as fact mixed in with verifiable facts makes for good reading.

Here's my take: I don't disagree with the homoerotic nature of bodybuilding, etc. But, I think men are inherently competitive by nature, and comparing muscles, dicks and other body parts is nothing new. Bodybuilding becoming somewhat mainstream thanks to Mr.Weider's efforts is no different from the 1930s magazine articles (long before Weider) of boxer Max Schmelling's measurements (biceps, chest, thighs). Point being, men have always been competitive about and curious about other men's muscles. Whether that then gets into a whole discussion about homosexuality and "the love that dare not speak its name" is something else entirely.

Just because a guy admires another guy's "stuff", as in body measurements, salary, athletic accomplishments, etc. doesn't mean it's about sexual desire or activity.

As far as American attitudes towards homosexuality, they've been hostile for a lot longer than 30 years -- it's just that nowadays proponents of homosexuality seem to bring it up at every juncture. "Gay" is the "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" of the 21st century. I'm seriously agreeing with Pope Francis when he says that the Church (and everyone else) is spending too much time obsessing about. Live and let live, I say.

[arpeejay]

http://www.facebook.com/arpeejay

[The Magus]

Originally Posted by Ogun

Yes Pogrom is rather a strong term considering it used to involve violence and death. *lost relatives in the Holocaust*

I don't want to take anything away from your point (I agree), but gay people and other "sexual deviants" were also targeted during the holocaust.