great film

[rogsats]

look on this film:

YouTube - Reese's "Bully"

[dirk steel]

Using homophobia to sell candy. Nice. Yeah, I'll be buying Reese's peanut butter cups real soon.

[skumbum]

i thought it was clever

[mutador]

Yes they could've used another joke

[TheMM]

Originally Posted by dirk steel

Using homophobia to sell candy. Nice. Yeah, I'll be buying Reese's peanut butter cups real soon.

Indeed! What were they thinking?! I mean, they know better than to shake vending machines, if they tilt too much, then they could fall over and crush someone!

But I do have to agree with Skumbum...I'd gladly feel a little pain, if I could get my Reese's. (And be held up by a really hot guy in the process.) I mean, there's no victim in that....Especially if the kid was tellin the truth.

[Phlex]

Well, the homophobic guy is portrayed as a stupid jerk, so I can't be too annoyed.

[abbraxis]

I don't have sound...

Can someone tell me what he says?

[Reeza]

Despite the unnecessary gay slur, that was hot!

[abbraxis]

... if you, for no reason, imply that a random guy is gay, you should ACCEPT the deserved ass-kicking.

The commercial doesn't prove the "jock" is a homo-phobe. It proves he doesn't like being called gay.

Just my opinion...

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by abbraxis

... if you, for no reason, imply that a random guy is gay, you should ACCEPT the deserved ass-kicking.

Do you really believe that?

My self esteem would need to CRASH to accept your statement!

It June, GAY PRIDE MONTH! What the hell happened to GAY PRIDE!

IF ANYONE DOES ASS-KICKING, WE WILL BE THE ONES DOING IT!

[RPM]

Homophobia? Gay slur? The guy didn't seem to like a random kid assuming he was gay because he worked out or enjoyed bodybuilding. A lot of people don't.

Amusing play.

[jerseyflex]

did this really air in the US? Im shocked if it did - in my opinion it should have touched off a controversey as it just perpetuates that all good looking well built guys in tank tops are gay. that ticks me off.

i overheard these 2 guys talking on the train the other day about cell phone cameras and an incident in the one guy's gym. evidently the one guy (a gi-normous lumberjack blue collar powerlifter type) walked in to the locker room of his gym to find a guy filming a bodybuilder flexing. he relayed the story of how he said "put that camera away this is no place to film your little homoerotic gay porn" to the two guys.

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by RPM

Homophobia? Gay slur? The guy didn't seem to like a random kid assuming he was gay because he worked out or enjoyed bodybuilding. A lot of people don't.

Amusing play.

I want to understand.

Are we to be more understanding and sympathetic to those who equate the lable of gay with a form of degradation than to our own dignity and self respect of who we are?

Are we to be so understanding that we accept that an "ass-kicking" is justified?

If gay people truly believe this and are unable to recognize the homophobia than I am afraid it will be a long time before we earn the repect we naturally deserve.

[Uskathoth]

hungreed, I agree that the commercial is homophobic. But your posts are ignoring the fact that "your boyfriend went that way" was clearly meant to be provocative.

The kid wasn't giving directions. He was saying, essentially, "hey, faggot". Even if the big guy was Mr. Gay Pride 2008 he could tell the kid was attempting to insult him.

The commercial was homophobic because, among other things, it treated anti-gay sentiment as pretty normal and even clever. The kid was the homophobe; the big guy may have been homophobic or he may have just not liked punk kids trying to insult him.

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by Uskathoth

hungreed, I agree that the commercial is homophobic. But your posts are ignoring the fact that "your boyfriend went that way" was clearly meant to be provocative.

The kid wasn't giving directions. He was saying, essentially, "hey, faggot". Even if the big guy was Mr. Gay Pride 2008 he could tell the kid was attempting to insult him.

The commercial was homophobic because, among other things, it treated anti-gay sentiment as pretty normal and even clever. The kid was the homophobe; the big guy may have been homophobic or he may have just not liked punk kids trying to insult him.

I don't believe you read my posts. I was not responding to the commercial.

I was responding to the idea that gays should be understanding and be sympathetic to those who believe the lable gay is insulting even to the point of justifying an "ass-kicking"

I find it incredible and a bit disillusioning to be debating this on a gay forum in 2008.

People who do not stand-up for themselves perhaps do not deserve respect. I will always stand-up for myself especially because I am gay.

[CartoonBuff]

I usually lurk, and I'm (as far as I know) straight, and while I wouldn't have reacted as the jock did in the ad, I think you're misunderstanding still, hungreed.

*Within the context of the commercial*, the kid is saying "Your boyfriend just went by" to bait the bigger guy, as an intentional insult. You said "People who do not stand-up for themselves perhaps do not deserve respect. I will always stand-up for myself especially because I am gay." Within the context of the commercial, an argument could be made that the jock is standing up for himself against a heckler (and the kid wanted to be beat up to loosen the candy). And though in real life it wouldn't be justified, in US public schools, "faggot" and "gay" are routinely used to insult someone one doesn't like, without any knowledge of that person's actual sexuality (and in many cases, the subject doesn't even know it yet).

Nobody in this thread has been discussing real life situations, and "gay pride" doesn't come into it at all since neither character within the commercial is intended to be gay. In any event, it's a forced concept which would have worked better with any other insult ("Hey, neanderthal, how much space is in your skull?" or something else used to insult jock types), so there's no real point in arguing over the homophobic aspect of a candy ad which, like most mainstream commercials, goes for the quick and lowbrow laugh. So if I may be so bold, everyone settle down, please?

[musqlure]

Sorry, Cartoonbuff, but you're totally off. If I understand hungreed correctly, he's objecting to the homophobia implicit in the commercial. The jock reacts angrily in the commercial because he thinks being perceived as gay is, as you say, an insult. That's homophobia. There's simply nothing wrong with being gay, and to imply that one should be insulted for being thought gay is indeed homophobic.

You seem to think that there can't be any homophobia involved here merely because neither character in the commercial is supposed to be gay. Likewise you seem to think that there's no homophobia involved when one kid calls another a faggot "without any knowledge of that person's actual sexuality." But the mere fact that the terms "faggot" and "gay" are used as insults demonstrates the presence of homophobia. No one -- not even a gay person -- would be offended at being called "straight." But people are taught to feel otherwise about being called gay. If there were no homophobia, no one would mind being called gay.

So yes, "gay pride" does come into it. Hungreed is basically asserting his equality with straight people and criticizing the homophobic premise of this commercial. For what it's worth, I'm with him.

[atm94404]

While I don't think the makers of the commercial had any malice, I do think they didn't think thru the implications of the intended humor in the commercial. While I despise the "politically correct" movement (and was deeply saddened by the recent passing of George Carlin), I think this commercial crosses that line from low-brow humor into being insensitive. To me there is a simple litmus test- replace the gay reference with another and see how it sounds. Would you be comfortable saying the same thing in public to your friends or to your co-workers? If not, then the expression is probably homophobic. For instance, what if the kid instead of saying "Your boyfriend went that way" had said "Your black/Jewish (take your pick) girlfriend went that way"? Would the bully's reaction play as anything other than racist? Would the kid who said the "taunting remark" be seen as anything other than an ignorant racist himself because he assumed that such a remark would set the bully off? Would Reese's be comfortable airing such a commercial? Most definitely not.

[musclehabilles]

Skinny Kid (to Jock): Hey, your boyfriend went that way.

[Skinny Kid points in the direction the alleged boyfriend is in.]

Jock: What?

[Jock picks Skinny Kid up, slams against the vending machine a few times, walks away, then growls:]

Freak!

Kinda hard for me to determine which is the homophobe, considering the Skinny Kid using sexuality as an implement for getting the reese's by means of being bullied. On the other hand, the Jock is just as much to blame for his violent reaction to the very idea of having a boyfriend, and thus identifying as LGBT.

My two cents, for what it's worth.
_____________________________

If that commercial offends you (or not) check out www.commercialcloset.org . They've got gay-friendly, -neutral, and anti-gay archives of commercials akin to these.

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by musqlure

Sorry, Cartoonbuff, but you're totally off. If I understand hungreed correctly, he's objecting to the homophobia implicit in the commercial. The jock reacts angrily in the commercial because he thinks being perceived as gay is, as you say, an insult. That's homophobia. There's simply nothing wrong with being gay, and to imply that one should be insulted for being thought gay is indeed homophobic.

You seem to think that there can't be any homophobia involved here merely because neither character in the commercial is supposed to be gay. Likewise you seem to think that there's no homophobia involved when one kid calls another a faggot "without any knowledge of that person's actual sexuality." But the mere fact that the terms "faggot" and "gay" are used as insults demonstrates the presence of homophobia. No one -- not even a gay person -- would be offended at being called "straight." But people are taught to feel otherwise about being called gay. If there were no homophobia, no one would mind being called gay.

So yes, "gay pride" does come into it. Hungreed is basically asserting his equality with straight people and criticizing the homophobic premise of this commercial. For what it's worth, I'm with him.

Whew... Thank You Musqlure!

I guess I have trouble getting my point across but you did a nice job.

Reeces would not dare use implicit racism and not because they are noble but because they fear the repercussion. It would be nice if they feared the repercussion from gays.

To clarify, I became fired-up, less by the commercial and more by reactions. One in particular that states "you should ACCEPT the deserved ass-kicking" when implying someone is gay.

If this forum was a test to decide whether it is safe for Reeces to continue their "clever" and "great film" than we will most likely be seeing much more of this homophobia.

I repeat. If you do not stand up for yourself than you will not be respected.

Unless I get fired up again, I'm finished.

[CartoonBuff]

For the record, I didn't say the ad wasn't homophobic when it clearly was. And my other examples were of homophobia, not to deny it (homophobia in intent on the part of the person saying it anyway, but considering peer pressure and such, to be hurt or indeed offended in that case is not uncommon or unnatural, to my mind anyway, though for the mature adult, confusion or just bemusement would be more likely, as it would if one was wrongly assumed to be straight). It just sounded more like hungreed was attacking other posters and going off in a direction I couldn't understand in the least, if it was supposed to apply to the commercial itself. I'm not disagreeing with you at all on the problem, I was just utterly puzzled by hungreed's earlier posts (especially when he claimed he wasn't talking about the commercial, and seemed instead to be attacking other posters, but if he did mean the ad, "gay pride" didn't come into the original commercial and it doesn't). But it seems everything is fairly clear to everyone now and just a communication issue at heart, so yay for that. Carry on.

And I think the bigger issue, forget the whole "deserved ass-kicking" (which in this case applies less to deliberately treating homosexuality as an insult to bait someone into beating you up, which I still think is hardly admirable however you look at it, but I imagine the intent of the earlier poster was along the lines of "throw rocks at a pitbull and wonder why he's chasing you") is why the jerk kid decided to use that tactic to bait the other character anyway. So I agree with hungreed here, it's because homosexual panic is still a safe and treasured topic in mainstream media (Adam Sandler movies, anyone?) at a time when other groups have been left alone. That's also why the "stand up for yourself" bit confused me in regard to the *commercial* (I thought you were applying it to those characters, hungreed), but I whole heartedly agree with it in real life.

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by CartoonBuff

I'm not disagreeing with you at all on the problem, I was just utterly puzzled by hungreed's earlier posts (especially when he claimed he wasn't talking about the commercial, and seemed instead to be attacking other posters, but if he did mean the ad, "gay pride" didn't come into the original commercial and it doesn't).

I will assume you, defining my debate as "attacking other posters" was perhaps poor choice words.

I realize that per your earlier post, that you are straight. This perhaps makes it harder identify with a gay person, such as myself. Perhaps it makes it hard to understand why this would be a sensitive issue.

Yes...I am in sharp disagreement with the poster who wrote "you should ACCEPT the deserved ass-kicking".

But, to very clear it is not my intention to attack but certainly to debate an issue that is important to me as a gay man.

[Geek2Jock]

I think its downright funny. Maybe some of us just have thicker skin than others.

[CartoonBuff]

"I realize that per your earlier post, that you are straight. This perhaps makes it harder identify with a gay person, such as myself. Perhaps it makes it hard to understand why this would be a sensitive issue."

That has little to do with it (and I said as far as I know, since I really have little in the way of sexual urges period and no experiences either way. and not likely to). I was just confused by your words and you really did seem very *very* angry and lashing out (or so it seemed, always hard to judge on the internet), and the bit about pride seemed at first to be aimed at characters in the stupid commercial, and then at other posters. But let's drop this, okay. Peace, please? Let's all have a non-Reese's piece of candy and forget the whole thing.

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by Geek2Jock

I think its downright funny. Maybe some of us just have thicker skin than others.

Punching bags need thick skin

[musqlure]

Originally Posted by hungreed

Punching bags need thick skin

Touch?. Couldn't agree more.

[RPM]

Dear God

[iluvmassivemusl]

Wow, who knew reese's would be the cause of a 2 pager, lol, i agree, gay insults like this are very,well, insulting to any gay man around, but i think we should pick our battles, im not gonna waste my time thinking of a gay insult from reeses past this posting

[skumbum]

Originally Posted by hungreed

Punching bags need thick skin

Hehe, my tongue needs thick skin considering how hard I'm having to bite it right now

p.s. not really, I just thought it would be fun to say that.

[abbraxis]

Well, this touched off quite a discussion, so I don't have time now to read the whole thing, but I will address the one post to me.

Originally Posted by hungreed

Do you really believe that?

Yes. It's rude to just assume someone's sexuality based on how they look.

My self esteem would need to CRASH to accept your statement!

Well, maybe it's not your self asteem you should worry about.

The jock shoved cause the other kid just implied he was gay. Who does that?

Are you suggesting it's alright to go around calling people gay, straight and bi because of what we think they are? Basing this opinion on nothing more than their clothes or physical appearence?

I just think it's wrong to judge people... not to be gay...

It June, GAY PRIDE MONTH! What the hell happened to GAY PRIDE!

IF ANYONE DOES ASS-KICKING, WE WILL BE THE ONES DOING IT!

Well, I didn't know it was Gay Pride Month... but that's not the issue. The issue here is blind judgement, not sexuality.

Furthermore, I don't think you wanna sound as violent as you just did. It sends the wrong message behind "Gay Pride Month" and the simple right to exist.

The less conflict that can be created between 2 opposing communities, the better. Basically, I don't see this as someththing the gay community should get bent out of shape over.

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by abbraxis

Well, this touched off quite a discussion, so I don't have time now to read the whole thing, but I will address the one post to me.



Yes. It's rude to just assume someone's sexuality based on how they look.



Well, maybe it's not your self asteem you should worry about.

The jock shoved cause the other kid just implied he was gay. Who does that?

Are you suggesting it's alright to go around calling people gay, straight and bi because of what we think they are? Basing this opinion on nothing more than their clothes or physical appearence?

I just think it's wrong to judge people... not to be gay...



Well, I didn't know it was Gay Pride Month... but that's not the issue. The issue here is blind judgement, not sexuality.

Furthermore, I don't think you wanna sound as violent as you just did. It sends the wrong message behind "Gay Pride Month" and the simple right to exist.

The less conflict that can be created between 2 opposing communities, the better. Basically, I don't see this as someththing the gay community should get bent out of shape over.

If you felt I came across as violent, I do apoligize. Perhaps I should to use the icons to convey a friendlier message. I'll start with the smiley . A percentage of my post will include a little tongue & cheek, thus winky icon.

First, there was nothing in the commercial about judging people by appearance that was never an issue.

Being called straight is not considered an insult. Being called gay is not an insult either, but if you buy into a homophobic attitude you may feel very insulted. Unfortunately, this homophobic attitude is so pervasive that even many gays react like it is an insult. My feeling is, that it's time for this attitude to begin to change.

This cultural acceptance of homophobia has given Reece's the courage to exploit homophobia (gay=insult) to sell candy bars. Worse, this commecial is aimed at children and teens.

Now, If a stud like me implies you are gay, you will be getting the compliment of your life! It would be the farthest thing from an insult. If you decide attack me than you better fight like a bull. I have no intention of "ACCEPTING an ass-kicking". Don't let me pin you!

I know I won't change any believe systems but this issue is important to me and I needed to express it.

Again, I apoligize if I seemed too aggressive because it was not my intention.

[dirk steel]

Cool! My short little comment started a huge debate.

I wasn't that offended by the commercial. In the scheme of things it's pretty inane; and I'm not a big fan of all the P.C. crap that's going on. But the message is clear. The smaller kid knew that if he told the "jock" that he had a boyfriend, he would take it as an insult and smack the kid around. Just because the smaller kid is portrayed as clever doesn't change the message: Being called gay is bad, and violence is an appropriate response.

If the "jock" were a black guy and the kid said, "Where's your fried chicken and watermelon?", I'm pretty sure they wouldn't put it on TV.

Nuf said. Bring on the gay porn!

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by dirk steel

Being called gay is bad, and violence is an appropriate response.

You made your point very clear. At least your honest.

[skumbum]

Originally Posted by hungreed

Being called gay is not an insult

I know this is taken out of context, but lets assume that calling a guy gay is not an insult.

Is it insulting if you:

1) call a guy gay if you have prior knowledge that he's straight?

2) call a guy straight if you have prior knowledge that he's gay?

3) call a guy a girl?

The ad doesn't actually call anyone gay, so you are bringing in your own bias to tell you why the jock is offended.

What if the jock has previously asked nicely not to be called gay?

What if the jock is straight, and has an athletic girlfriend who is being called a boy here?

What if the jock is gay, and the snack kid is referring to someone other than the actual boyfriend? Like a dog, or a retard who the jock tutors?

If you want people to stop getting bent out of shape over gender issues, set an example eh? :-)

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by skumbum

I know this is taken out of context, but lets assume that calling a guy gay is not an insult.

Is it insulting if you:

1) call a guy gay if you have prior knowledge that he's straight?

2) call a guy straight if you have prior knowledge that he's gay?

3) call a guy a girl?

The ad doesn't actually call anyone gay, so you are bringing in your own bias to tell you why the jock is offended.

What if the jock has previously asked nicely not to be called gay?

What if the jock is straight, and has an athletic girlfriend who is being called a boy here?

What if the jock is gay, and the snack kid is referring to someone other than the actual boyfriend? Like a dog, or a retard who the jock tutors?

If you want people to stop getting bent out of shape over gender issues, set an example eh? :-)

I know and I hope you realize that the list of rationalizations you created is not the way the commercial will be received by the general public.

This commercial presents an opportunity to raise awareness about anti-gay bias and pervasive homophobic attitudes. Instead, I keep reading posts by people who say things like "being called gay is bad". I read passionately inspired posts to defend their own self-hate inflicted on them by a homophobic and anti-gay culture.

This thread has been a eyeopener and a wake-up call for me. I am now very motivated to become more active. THANK GOD, I will be attending Gay Pride events all weekend long, here in Saint Petersburg. Gay Pride events have been celebrated for forty years. These events are celebrated worldwide. Manhattan shuts down during the parade. I was disappointed to discover that on this gay forum, one of the posters had no awareness of the Gay Pride events.

[abbraxis]

Originally Posted by hungreed

I know and I hope you realize that the list of rationalizations you created is not the way the commercial will be received by the general public.

Don't you know by now that the general public is stupid? Who do you think "commercials" are for in the first place?

And while you think the general public won't see it the same way skumbum or I see it, I also don't think they'll see it as an intentional attack on homosexuals. They'll see it as a cute joke and move on.

If you really wanna earn the ire of the straight community, make a big deal about it. You're welcome to... but you'll have to accept the consequences of being labeled "whiners".

Also, I don't really consider myself gay (several people here at the Archive are the same way), so maybe that impacts my opinion, but I think it's innapropriate for you to assume anyone has succombed to "self-hate inflicted on them by a homophobic and anti-gay culture".

Just sayin'...

[hungreed]

Originally Posted by abbraxis

If you really wanna earn the ire of the straight community, make a big deal about it. You're welcome to... but you'll have to accept the consequences of being labeled "whiners".

Also, I don't really consider myself gay (several people here at the Archive are the same way), so maybe that impacts my opinion, but I think it's innapropriate for you to assume anyone has succombed to "self-hate inflicted on them by a homophobic and anti-gay culture".

Just sayin'...

This mystery is finally making sense. I'm kind of relieved with this new understanding. I clearly made the false assumption that members of this very gay forum would be gay. It explains why there is such outspoken defense of homophobia.

My next false assumption would be that a straight person on a gay forum would be at least gay friendly but I am reminded of your earlier remark about assuming someone is gay. You even used capitals to stress your conviction. "ACCEPT your ass-kicking", for implying someone is gay.

Also, as far as earning ire of the straight community, if you were gay, you would realize the ire of the straight community has always been a reality. Your own, "ACCEPT your ass-kicking" remark makes that obvious.

To be clear, I do not fear the ire of the straight community.

[abbraxis]

Originally Posted by hungreed

This mystery is finally making sense. I'm kind of relieved with this new understanding. I clearly made the false assumption that members of this very gay forum would be gay. It explains why there is such outspoken defense of homophobia.

... There are several other straight MG fans here.

Try not to be so one-dimensional, would ya?

Originally Posted by hungreed

My next false assumption would be that a straight person on a gay forum would be at least gay friendly but I am reminded of your earlier remark about assuming someone is gay. You even used capitals to stress your conviction. "ACCEPT your ass-kicking", for implying someone is gay.

Your last false assumption was that you think you know the kind of person I am based soley on this brief introduction. Your elementary attempts to judge me is based on nothing.

I have many gay friends and often times am mocked for being "gay" because I have strong convictions in allowing gays the right to civil unions, adoption and the right to serve in the military (I'm from the US).

I capatalized the word "ACCEPT" for emphasis.

You can't go around judging people's sexuality without negative repercussions.

Pardon me for being objective.

Originally Posted by hungreed

Also, as far as earning ire of the straight community, if you were gay, you would realize the ire of the straight community has always been a reality. Your own, "ACCEPT your ass-kicking" remark makes that obvious.

Originally Posted by hungreed

To be clear, I do not fear the ire of the straight community.

I never said you do. I said you were wrong to think *I* do.




I'm done. It's not whorth arguing this further because neither of us know the other well enough to judge.

All I think is that the best way to get over this is to do just that; get over it.

Now, you bring me something like a Matthew Shepard-esque incident and you will have me by your side in a HEART BEAT... but this pales in comparison and doesn't deserve the attention or time of the gay community.

Anyway, sorry this had to get ugly. This debate just isn't whorth getting angry over, so I'm gonna pull out. I hope you don't feel angry with me or my opinion and I hope you have a good weekend

[musqlure]

Originally Posted by abbraxis

And while you think the general public won't see it the same way skumbum or I see it, I also don't think they'll see it as an intentional attack on homosexuals. They'll see it as a cute joke and move on.

If you really wanna earn the ire of the straight community, make a big deal about it. You're welcome to... but you'll have to accept the consequences of being labeled "whiners".

God, where do I start with something like this? The very fact that you think the "general public" will see this as "a cute joke" simply proves how disgustingly pervasive homophobia is. There's nothing cute or funny about this commercial's use of homophobia. I wouldn't find anything cute about anti-Semitism or racism, whether or not members of the general public would laugh at an anti-Semitic or racist joke.

And, like hungreed, I'm not in the least intimidated by the threatened "ire" of the big bad straight community. Oh, and as for being a "whiner," I guess you could call people like Rosa Parks and Dr. King whiners too. Those with power will usually denigrate those who demand justice and equality. But part of standing up for yourself is brushing off such insults.

As for your allegedly liberal attitudes towards gay people, abbraxis, forgive me if I'm unimpressed. Your statements on this point succeeded only in making you sound condescending. You might as well have said, "some of my best friends are gay."

Finally, I'm glad you're done with this topic, since it's apparent that you have very little of value to contribute to the discussion.

[abbraxis]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I'm also sorry you think I'm homophobic... especially considering the fact that I hang out at a website like this. If I'm afraid of or don't like gay people, why would I subject myself to an enviroment I know contains them?

Masochism?

Basically, 2 and 2 aren't adding up, musqlure.