Story Criticisms

[mattbarradell]

[COLOR=white]Hi all[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]OK I'm loathe to go down this road but having seen a few comments made by and to others on this site I feel it's kind of necessary. (And no I don't want to wade in guns blazing, do not read this with tone just text, if it helps imagine someone you like saying this to you.)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]1. Criticism is part of writing, if you really don't like this please don't post your stories on the internet. Not everyone is going to like your stories, writing style or themes. Criticism has been referred to as constructive and should be but some of the 'criticism' is defined as two things, one is when you give your opinion or judgment about the good or bad qualities of something or someone the other is when you say that something or someone is bad. Both are valid. One person may word it:[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]'The beginning of your story needs a little fleshing out, the characters need to connect with the reader and there are a few grammatical errors.'[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]Someone else may say:[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]'This story is crap, what were you thinking!'[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]Both are acceptable criticisms but only one is helpful, which do you think an author will respond to more? None of us (at least I hope) want the writers here to stop writing, especially when some of the stories on this site are genuinely wonderful. (Rowan!)[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]Oh and btw criticism in itself is not a sign of intelligence it's a sign of an analytical mind, please don't suggest that it is. Everyone is capable of analysis, few interpretation.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]2. Why are people being so mean spirited? I've never understood this. If you're in a bad mood, please check this at the door, this site is an escape from the world for most of us. We come to chat, share ideas and lose ourselves in niche literature not to listen to people bemoan others daring to try to entertain or reach others. I was told the other day by a friend 'You're always in a good mood.' Sounds like a compliment but she said it like there was something wrong with me. Maybe this is just a character flaw so maybe I'm the only one this annoys.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]3. Grammar and Spelling!! Reading some of the posts I can't understand why people can point out others errors (no doubt someone will spot one in this post and notify me) but at the end of the day you need to ask two questions. Did you understand what the author or poster was trying to say and were the mistakes so frequent and bad they made the post hard to read. If the answer is yes to either of these then by all means please point out to the user how to improve not how stupid they must surely be to spell 'important' 'impotent'.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]4. Compliments are always welcome but seldom given. All authors and writers (including myself though I would hardly call myself one) crave a little praise and often deserve it. If you enjoy a story please post a thank you or note of appreciation if you enjoyed it. [/COLOR][COLOR=white][FONT='Verdana','sans-serif']And if you really enjoyed it be kind, wipe yourself off first lol, no one likes a sticky keyboard![/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]5. My last pointed paragraph I promise (well in this post anyway lol). HAVE FUN FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!! That's why we're here![/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]Thank you for your attention I hope this post was more helpful than annoying.[/COLOR]


[COLOR=white][/COLOR]

[COLOR=white]Matt B[/COLOR]

[Mad Dog]

I just kinda stopped criticizing things here because people often get bent out of shape or withdraw their stories if they hear anything bad about them.

[ttownlittlebear]

I reply when I like something, and don't when I don't.

[redroger11]

Talk about putting it in perspective. I've got a goofy grin on my face because sometimes I'm the one who forgets that this (reading, writing, sharing ideas) is for fun. And a lot of you really great authors can make this a LOT of Fun. And Hot fun at that. Point #4 was really cool, I thought, so everyone please aim away from the Screen and Keyboard (Unless that's what you call real fun, then by all means,turn it white).
And Matt going along with your third point, I think I understand what you are trying to say. I just hope I remember the smile it put on my face, if I ever get the urge to dump on another writer, so I'll stop my self before I hit the post button. The smile will remind me to "Have Fun For God's Sake!" and that I should spread that around. Not annoying at all. Thanks.

redroger11

[rextorres]

Thank you, Matt, for posting this. I'm a published author, and I know how much time and effort it takes to write and edit a good short story, let alone a 135,000-word novel which is to be published as a BOOK. Well, I just did that!

The readers on this forum need to show some more appreciation towards the few who are the writers. Harsh, negative and destructive criticism will do nothing more than drive writers away from this board by discouraging them from writing and posting any new stories. And, you know what will happen to this website? It will DIE! If WE stop posting stories on this site, then this board will die a slow death and people will go somewhere else. So, next time you want to say something harsh about a writer, or his writing, THINK before you post!

I'll repeat what Redroger said: Let's keep it fun, you guys, and let's tone down the harsh criticism, alright?

[manlion]

Yeah, but we should also remember that criticism isn't automatically bad or complaining. Sure, keep them light, keep it fun. But that doesn't mean no criticism ever. Don't stop.

Now, a personal addendum.

I would say that I, as a person, and an artist in other media than here, have developed to a level where I can take any level criticism and roll with it. I can take any rational criticism and analyze it, see if it's valid. If it is, I try to fix those problems. If it's not, I can shrug it off.

(I had an art critique from an industry pro this week. He criticized what he considered an unnecessary detail, saying I should just cut it. I disagreed with him, and I still think even if what I did didn't work, the concept I was going for was still valid and needed, I just need to figure out how to represent it better.)

To be quite honest, I would love some more analytical critique on my story, Meatballs. I haven't had that much writing experience, so I'd really appreciate the help. (mostly in trying to balance the story with the erotic components) Of course, if anyone does post all-caps pure-attack bullshit, which I expect someone might, I know enough to ignore it and keep looking for the honest critique.

[Jaypat]

If criticism is going to work on this board, you?d almost have to set up a separate section for it. A lot of people who come here to read have no desire to discuss the literary merits of a story, and in fact they get angry if other readers engage in such a discussion. They?re afraid, and not without justification, that the discussers are going to scare the author away.

If there were a separate section for criticism, then the readers and the author could choose to read or ignore the critics, and the critics wouldn?t have to worry about offending anyone or scaring anyone off.

The story thread could still be used for comments like ?great story? and ?can?t wait for the next chapter.? But for discussing plot points and character development, you?re really going to want a separate section. Quite frankly, I?d love to see it, because I love talking story. But not everyone does.

Of course, the vast majority of people who come here say nothing at all. To those people, I?d just like to say speak up. How hard is it to type ?Liked it. Keep it coming?? You have no idea how much comments like that mean to the writers. It makes a huge difference and from such a small effort.

So, anyway, I think we need a separate section for criticism, otherwise inviting it is just asking for a great big mess.

[RPM]

Seems like it should depend on why people are posting. Some probably don't care about proper English and only want to share an idea they had. Others may take it more seriously and really want to improve as an author.

I remember another story forum I almost got involved in had a tornado-style ranking system for critique. When authors would post stories, they would also post a critique index: F1 was like "take it easy this is just for fun" and F5 was like "this may be published, have the professionals rip it to pieces". I think there was also an F6, which was basically selfabuse.

Something like that may help this issue.

[giantw]

Matt, you may be justified that there is constructive criticism and then there is unhelpful, hateful criticism. I recognize the difference. However, my point has always been, the more people nit-pick the work of others (even with the nest of intentions) the less inclined authors will be to post.

I don't doubt you will get a few authors who welcome the criticism, but I think those are far and few in between. For the most part, authors want encouragement. They are providing their stories and fantasies to our community for free. They get criticized and critiqued every day in ther real lives; they certainly don't want additional criticism when they come here. This should be an escape for them. Otherwise, why should they spend their time and effort to please a bunch of people who come off as overly-critical and ungrateful?

Therefore, the more you criticize these authors, the less stories there will be. You may dispute that rule, you may argue that it is irrational...whatever. That's the way it is folks. So what will it be? More criticism and less stories or less criticism and more stories? Vecause, quite frankly, I never understood why certain member feel compelled to comment on a story that they don't like. If you don't like a story, why offer any criticism at all? Move on...

[giantw]

I've noticed, incidentally, that since Xyggurat and Sexiscriptor decided to resurrect the flame war between Wolfotehmoon and I in the last 24 hours that my Rep Power has gone from 5 to 0.

DEAR LORD!!! MY REP POINTS HAVE BEEN DEPLETED!!! WHATEVER SHALL I DO!!!???

Hehe...just kidding. The way I see it, those rep points were earned over the years by defending authors from overly harsh criticism. I invite anyone to go back and look at my posts which attest to this. If those points were wiped out in defense of our contributors (authors and drawers) from the unecessary and unsolicited criticism of some self-appointed critics then it was political capital well spent.

Look, I don't care if a bunch of people hate me. The fact is, I love this site, as well as many of the people I have met here. I have been a member of this site for a long time and I have enjoyed the stories that authors have freely contributed here through their own time and effort. They all deserve my gratitude. My fear, is that this place is becoming overly hostile towards its authors, and that in turn will result in less stories being posted. I refuse to let that happen without making a stink, even if it means losing my cherished rep points. It is a point I made in my initial flame war with Wolfotehmoon, which can be found here:

http://www.musclegrowth.org/forum/sh...ad.php?t=12361

You'll see that the argument between what is constructive and what is just mean-spirited rises again, however, you will see that what one person considers "constructive" might be deemed "hurtful" by others.

Thanks for opening up a new thread.

[yobdior]

I think the forum simply needs a more (pro)active moderation of posts. This would resolve these issues very quickly. Group coercion is not a particularly effective device in this anonymous online world.

[musclegod]

I just stopped posting. If people can't be positive and respectful they shouldn't participate.

[nnnrg]

I used to participate in writing forums. We had some specific rules. One of them was "nobody uses your characters or stories without permission."
Another was "Be grammatically correct, and use correct spelling, whenever possible."
Another was "do not ever attack the writer, EVER." You could point out when a storyline did not work for you, but you couldn't say "This is stupid" in the forum. You could point out when the construction was confusing, or grammatically wrong, misspelled, or contradictory, and the writer would almost always accept that as improving their work.
Another rule was "Say at least one positive thing."

I don't post any of my own writing here because I don't always fit the forum.

This forum specialises in erotic male muscle growth, a rather unusual and not-terribly-common sort of fetish writing. It can be overdone really easily. Most of the writers here started out pretty average, some even horrible, but the one thing I have noticed: Everyone who continued writing got better over time. Everyone who accepted criticism for grammar, spelling, punctuation, and style, became a better writer technically, as their writing became easier to read, and their stories began to flow better.

Some writers were and are, how to say it, prima-donnas without portfolio.
Their writing, good, bad, or indifferent, was Not To Be Critiqued, and anything other than fawning adoration was an offense and an insult.

Some READERS are also rather 'entitlement' minded, thinking they could just demand anything of anyone, and in some cases I would personally have found the 'encouragement' to be annoying and over-familiar, but then I'm kind of an old-fart in that respect.

From the discussion up to this point, I've seen several ideas I agree with, and this one especially: The stories themselves should only contain positive, non-critique comments. A separate section (or an anchored thread) could be provided for critique and analysis, but only if the writer permits it. (Note, people will still critique and analyze even if the author forbids it, but they will probably not do it here, especially if the moderators of the forum and our generous host declare that such posts will be removed. If such a forum subsection does get created, I think it should have the no-personal-attacks rule, and common sense needs to be used about what constitutes a personal attack.)

[muscl4life]

First of all, this is a forum for discussing the MALE MUSCULAR GROWTH in several different categories. One of them is indeed expressed in ficctional stories, written for fellow members who need to overcome many personal challenges until they finaly post their first story.

That being said, I have to acknowledge that story criticism is a keystone in the relationship of a writer and the forum members. Like every other author I love when someone takes his precious time to write something regarding my story, of course, positive, constructive criticism is the ideal, but sometimes even the simplest post is enough to encourage me to venture into another story.

On the other hand, we can't deny the fact that not even 10 percent of the forum members actually interact here, those who post as writers or audience are very very scarce, and this fact needs to be considered because sometimes, we've seen flaming discussions that really didn't mean all that comotion (I admit that more than once I've been involved in this situation)

So, my opinion is that we just don't give that much importance to the differences on styles, grammar errors, story themes, details, because the main point here is to share something we all like in common: male muscle growth.

Writers will develop their styles, stories will be finished, pictures will be posted. Good feedback (criticism, comments and suggestions) is a great way to promote interaction in this forum, but sometimes, I just have to remember that people are afraid of posting for several reasons, however, if I can make a guy that lives at the other side of the planet excited solely tthrough the power of my words and ideas, this is more than enough to get me going to write another story.

In sum, comments, criticism, suggestions, complaints, and even flaming wars are part of this forum interaction, but they are not the sole reason why we gather here.

Hail to writers and readers, because we all know this forum started because of stories and will thrive over the occasional problems we might have, because the fantasy of guys getting more muscular is what bonds us closer.

Cheers

[a_lost_prophet]

Step back, deep breath, and group hug.

[nj.]

The only time I actually criticise is when I care about the story and its development.

If I know the author is working on something good, but could have done better on a specific point (in my opinion, of course), I'll point it out.

If I think things are rolling along nicely I'll just leave a 'good job' or something, and if I just don't care about the story, I leave it for other people to enjoy

[MysteriousMist]

Criticism is a pretty gray area, isn't it? People all react to it differently, and while some people can handle it well, others pretty much lose it whenever they hear someone commenting on their writing.

It's understandable that people would want a comfortable place to write. Some people are really good at listening to pretty much anything that comes, while others take offense rather easily and see any comment that's not a good one as a negative comment towards them. It's really hard to see if a piece of writing is good or bad, since it often depends on the person reading it.

I think the main thing is that it's often a very fine line between what's an acceptable comment and what's an attack. It's hard to tell which people want to hear the comments on what they can change, and which people believe that their writing is to the point that any other possibilities would be unnecessary or insulting to their work.

Honestly, I do think that some clear signal of when criticism is welcome would be a good idea. It's possible to do this through either a separate board for people who are willing to listen to it, or simply having a good way of marking a story for critiquing.

Still, I guess in the end, everybody that writes wants to hear some response. It only differs on what kind of response they're willing to listen to. Some only want to hear the good stuff, while others want to understand their problems.

I suppose right now, the best thing to do is to try to keep the more critical stuff to yourself when you respond. At the least, I think the safest thing to do when you're being critical is to either be sure that the author's willing to listen either through knowing them or seeing if they say that kind of thing, or to at least mix it into mostly complements. I don't think people will be as worried about their flaws if they also understand their strengths.

Of course, that could backfire horribly, and that's just my view on things. Take it how you like.

[nj.]

I think a cushion against criticism would be rather weak. Mummy's not going to protect you from the bullies in 'the real world' either. If you consider something an attack rather than constructive criticism, you can tell the person to fuck off, or lecture him, or ignore him, or whatever you deem the best option.

Only hearing the good stuff has never done anyone any good. It goes to your head.

[giantw]

I remember lecturing an author on this site who appeared to beg for more fawning and approving comments. I brought the author to task for fishing for compliments. However, I've come to regret ever having said anything to the author, because he has not posted anything since...and he was a pretty damn good author, not to mention a very nice guy, based on my private conversations with him.

I understand that limiting any comments to compliments reduces many of us to the role of sycophants: flattering the few authors on this site just to encourage them to keep their contributions flowing. But as some of us above have noted, some authors take any form of criticism, no matter how mild and well-intentioned, very much to heart. Some authors just don't want to be criticized for work they are kind enough to create in their own free time and for no expense in return. After all, this site isn't a creative writing class, though some members would like to turn it into one (with them as the instructor, of course). They view their work as a gift to us, and expect only expressions of gratitude and praise in return.

Therefore, the question becomes: how can we, as a community, encourage people to contribute to this site without being reduced to sycophantic sheep?

I propose the following rules of interaction:

1) If the contributor invites criticism of his or her work, then the contributor has "opened the door" to constructive criticism. In doing so, the contributor risks receiving some negative, unhelpful criticism which is sure to seep through under the guise of "constructive criticism"; but hey, that is a risk the contributor has accepted.

2) If the contributor says nothing about comments and criticism, then we should limit our comments to compliments, and nothing more. That way, the contributor can garner compliments free of any criticism which may hurt his or her ego. Similarly, if the work is not well received, the silence the contributor receives in response will speak for itself.

So in short, if the author asks for comments, fire away, but if not, limit your comments to compliments, or nothing at all. Fair?

[Rowan]

Originally Posted by giantw

I propose the following rules of interaction:

1) If the contributor invites criticism of his or her work, then the contributor has "opened the door" to constructive criticism. In doing so, the contributor risks receiving some negative, unhelpful criticism which is sure to seep through under the guise of "constructive criticism"; but hey, that is a risk the contributor has accepted.

2) If the contributor says nothing about comments and criticism, then we should limit our comments to compliments, and nothing more. That way, the contributor can garner compliments free of any criticism which may hurt his or her ego. Similarly, if the work is not well received, the silence the contributor receives in response will speak for itself.

Man, I think I'm too lazy for that. If the mods do choose to adopt a system like this, then I'd prefer it the other way around. Posters don't do anything if they're okay with how the forum works during its day to day activities, but if they don't want criticism, then say so. I think that's how it works on DeviantArt.

I do get the impression the forum's gotten more hostile over the years. Although I'm all for saying what's on your mind, I don't think it's unreasonable for an author to expect commenters to have a little bit of home training. If you wouldn't say it to a person's face, then don't say it.

[MysteriousMist]

The main thing is, DeviantArt has a system which makes it simple to toggle comments on and off, and automatically says if it's a piece of work where they want critiques, or comments only, or not even comments. It seems effective, but unlike here, it's not quite as easy to toggle on comments.

A default would probably be a good idea, seeing as it would only take a line or so in order to get the idea across either way. The main issue right now is that there's no universally set default on the forums, so it can really go either way. I guess the main issue is deciding which side of it, criticism or not, would be better to set the default as if that's the system that's used.

[TheMM]

I rather like your rules Giantw, they're simple and easy to remember.

Now then, back in October, I made a post about this site (don't bother asking me where it is, I'll probably never update the damn thing again at this point). The third paragraph mentioned how easily people can get annoyed with a post:


2. It's touchy. Now yes, I do know that this is the internet and occasionally messages come across wrong, it happens. However, it seems like in some cases, one person (sometimes seemingly on purpose) reacts to how another posts in a negative manner. Sometimes it is truly a misunderstanding, but in other cases, it's a major conflict of opinion, and neither member will back down.

Only a few sentences, but I think that greatly describes the problem we've been having recently, does it not?

[manlion]

I think the idea of a criticism forum would be a great idea. Maybe either a subset of this board, or adding it to the "Fantasies and Story Ideas" board(, or a subset thereof).

Specifically, maybe a work-in-progress forum, with the implied idea that the OP of such threads would update content as the story is developed, with critique and mentions of updates in the replies. (Plus, if possible, the ability to either 'graduate' a finished story, moving the post out into the main forum and stripping the comments, or just the ability for the OP poster to delete the thread whenever they want.)

[arpeejay]

The problem isn't writers or critics, although in fact there are plenty of writers whose feelings are too easily bruised and plenty of critics who would be risking a knuckle sandwich if they made such comments face-to-face.

The bigger problem is the "I won't let this go" phenomenon. "I won't let this go" until I've argued you, the writer, to the ground to say "Uncle" with regard to my criticisms. "I won't let this go" until I've defended myself against you, the critic, to the point you have nothing left to say.

Having spent years and years and years allowing myself to be trapped in this dynamic in another forum, I'm no longer willing to play the game (well, almost never, anyway.) And even though I was told this 10,000 times and refused to believe it, the ONLY way out of "I won't let this go" is to just stop responding. That doesn't mean, of course, that the other guy is going to stop responding, far from it. The whole point of "I won't let this go" is to provoke a response. So if you keep reading those provocations (but want them to stop), you have to suck it up.

Creating a separate section for comments will do nothing end this phenomenon. It's built into the Internet.

Now:

I really like the idea of unearthing an ancient muscleman! Combine Keanu Reeves and, oh, I dunno, Branch Warren and I'm in!

All the best & xoxo...

Richard

[AKA]

Speaking personally (and I know that's redundant to say, er, write but I wanted to put that up front to emphasize that this, like everything else ever posted anywhere, is simply one person's opinion) I'm not for censorship of any sort and I've been on the web long enough to know that it's best to ignore a lot of stuff that's said, and welcome all the help you can get. I think anyone should be allowed their opinion and they should be able to express it in the manner they choose to.

On the other side of the coin, if you don't like someone else's opinion, remember that it is just that, an opinion. Sometimes it's an educated opinion, sometimes it's not, but that's all it is.

That said, I am also for fostering an environment here that I look forward to visiting, rather than one I would rather avoid than attend. Remember that the stories here are purely the volunteer work of its members who have chosen to throw their creativity and imagination out there purely to be enjoyed -- in the most physical way. If you don't enjoy something, I'm sure there's something else you will.

I'd rather have access to a whole lot of stuff and gather the few gems I find than have the supply cut off -- gems and all -- because the suppliers have all gone home.

[philat99]

I toally agree with A.K.A.
Mike

[BlueMM]

Critiques without a solution is an opinion. And we all have opinions. I make 3D art. You might just hate that form of medium. If you tell me all the things wrong with my artwork starting with me, the artist, then it's a personal attack and well that's pointless. I won't stop making my art just because you don't like me. Who cares? But if you tell me ALL the things I should have done with my artwork and you have no idea, no possible experience of knowledge on the process, then the point of your critique is solely based upon opinion.

Now, if you are an artist - traditional, photography, sketch, whichever you are and you give me a good critique with some sort of solution - i.e. "you should try and put the shadow here; the tone of the skin looks sallow - try this coloring; the angle obsures this" : these kind of suggestions makes great sense and is a fine example of a good critique.

It seems that some people write their stories with no idea that they're putting it down on "paper" only to be handed to a pack of people who are ready to devour it. Perhaps the seasoned writers are well aware of this - but I don't know if the forum stickies say anything about "You will be critiqued" "You will be judged" "You will be told what we think about you as a person and a writer - be prepared for this to occur" or if the stickies just give the TOS and leave it at that.

The problem with this layout in a forum provides everyone else the opportunity to read my scathing rebuke of anyone's writing or artwork. It does not lend itself to privacy and having a conscientious mindset. I read the story. I don't like it. It's not edited well. The grammar and spelling is awful. I don't like the topic or the use of bondage and slavery. It makes references to a German Sign outside of a concentration camp. (Yes, I read all about this somewhere here - the critique was pretty lame.) But the critique is there for all eternity for anyone to jump on that bandwagon and create a posse. Now had the person with the judgment on this writer had used a little common sense he could have messaged the writer and lashed out at him in that manner.

I just wonder if giving critiques is even worthwhile in a forum setting like this across the internet. Perhaps we all should ask ourselves if we enjoy them IRL for ourselves and does the anonymity of the internet give us some unrealistic power to influence others to think like us? How do we want others to treat us? How do we want people to interpret our thoughts and ideas? And how would we want the critiques of our abilities, beginning or pro to help us grow or tear us down?

I apologize for the length of this but it's something I've had to deal with for many years, posting on the web. Rule of thumb. If you don't like it, click the white X in the red box. If you are born mean-spirited and want to make someone feel inferior to you and your opinion - grow up. And if you really have sound advice that can help - give it freely. It's up to the recipient to figure out what's helpful and what's not.

[ForgeAus]

while I agree with aarpjay, about the long supply of overly brave critiques, and the short supply of great writing, I tend to think that of course, yes theres a matter of respect, firstly when considering writing a reply/review/critique of someones work, you have to realize,

A) if you hated it, why did you read it? and was hating it the purpose of the peice?....

B) that writing is an art which needs to be encouraged, so you can never say too much good things about an authors work, however, it can help if you alert them to things they may not have noticed, or provide them with the "spin" you got from reading their work, It never ceases to amaze me how things are interpretted differently from some people...

C) Grammar and Punctuation aren't things that should be taken so much to heart, but be aware authors may feel like critique of this is simply being pedantic.. because sometimes thats exactly what it is... othertimes its simply just unimportant... getting the message across matters more than things like consistency and errors, so if you find errors, perhaps offering to fix it for them is a better approach than a "you got this wrong" kind of way???

D) again I stress authors who post their work are either kind or good enough to allow you the privilege of reading what they wrote, so when or if you respond to it, its just good nature to be positive about it, unless you know the author well enough to do otherwise, and even then because you know them your more likely to be their friend...

[kettlecharlie]

a criticism, if I may.
I shudder when I see that an addition to the list of stories is
Muscle Part 125.
An author should have a story in his mind that already has a beginning, a middle and an end. True, it may be divided into sections for convenience of printing
but please remember the law of diminishing returns
that repetition upon repetition gets nowhere
and
brevity is the soul of wit.
All the best to all authors
Get your pencil out-- a REAL pencil and be cut what is not necessary. Be ruthless and I bet you finish up with better stories and more readers !!

[lead guitarist]

Originally Posted by kettlecharlie

a criticism, if I may.
I shudder when I see that an addition to the list of stories is
Muscle Part 125.
An author should have a story in his mind that already has a beginning, a middle and an end. True, it may be divided into sections for convenience of printing
but please remember the law of diminishing returns
that repetition upon repetition gets nowhere

Um. While this may be true if we're writing literature, it doesn't apply here. We're writing muscle porn, basically. It's not about the standards of literature, it's about hardening your cock. Those of us who like muscle growth stories for erotic reasons just want more and more, not intellectually considered plotlines and prose that leads to a satisfying ending. For those of us who are jerking to this, there's no such thing as a satisfying ending. We want MORE!

and
brevity is the soul of wit.

We're not here for wit. We're here to get our rocks off.

All the best to all authors
Get your pencil out-- a REAL pencil and be cut what is not necessary. Be ruthless and I bet you finish up with better stories and more readers !!

You sound like a student of creative writing in college. You're right, in that context. But here, we're not looking for finely-written fiction; we want wank-fantasies. It's not the same thing!

[agreatguy6]

ahhh, brevity is the soul of wit.
Freakin HATE Polonius. I mean, he's funny as crap, but he takes himself so darn seriously >.> good thing he dies first. Anyway.

I believe there should be two parts to a story: Plot and Sex.
I also believe they should be separate.
Like... Plotplotplotplot SEX! plot?
and the area that has sex should be obvious, so that those that want plot can get their plot and those that are just getting their rocks off [and some of us do both] can skip to the good part and get off.

And please.
Please don't put pertinent information amid the sex.
It will definitely get ignored, unless that's what you want.

[R Chris Cooper]

Lately I have had less time so when a story is (in my opinion) poorly written and/or filled with grammar errors/ misspelled words/one continuous paragraph etc. I just stop reading and move on to the next story. When I first found this forum I would take the time to correct the story and send a private message to the author as a way of improving his writing. (One guy was interchanging the words then and than etc.) I got a reply that said thanks but I don't give a fuck. Needless to say I do not read his stories because I do not want to spend my time translating his meaning or trying to figure out what he was trying to say.

We all make mistakes. It is easy to type bean instead of beam. I think that a private message pointing out the error so that it may be corrected is a sufficient way to point out errors. That goes for readers that are confused by your story line also. Send me a private message if you don't like something about the story. I am always happy to reply to critics communicating in the private message section (as well as the normal reply).

The people that read the stories are our guests. Be polite and move on. In other words tell them thanks and I'll try to do better in the next story. One critic wrote a long post explaining his point and I would have had to re-write the story in the third person to comply with his request. I am so sorry he was confused but I like the story as written.

The bottom line is yes I want to hear from readers if it helps me write better stories.

RCC

[ToolShedCub]

well that is all fine and dandy. at least when you guys post a story it got feed back.


personally i think that most of the recent stories have sucked

[The_Pecman]

Originally Posted by lead guitarist

But here, we're not looking for finely-written fiction; we want wank-fantasies. It's not the same thing!

What if you want wank-fantasies that sorta/kinda make sense, and the subject agrees with the verb?

I think there's a way to do both in a way that's entertaining to a point. Granted, it ain't gonna ever be fine art, but at least it hits a certain minimum level.

I look at it this way: there's porno videos out there where some schmuck grabbed a $995 camera and shot a couple of guys in his backyard, and it looks like crap and goes nowhere. Then there's a well-lit video with good camera angles, everything's in focus, there's a little music, and you see everything you need to see. Me personally, I like the latter better.

Originally Posted by kettlecharlie

I shudder when I see that an addition to the list of stories is Muscle Part 125. An author should have a story in his mind that already has a beginning, a middle and an end. ...but please remember the law of diminishing returns that repetition upon repetition gets nowhere and brevity is the soul of wit.

All very true. And I think it's possible to do this even with quickie jerkoff fantasies: get to the point, don't belabor the obvious, and if it's a long story, make each chapter count. I see some of this stuff on Nifty that goes on for 100+ chapters, and it's like, "why?" You could pull 20 chapters out and it wouldn't change the story at all.

[MuscleHintz]

I see what some of you mean when you say that a story should short and to the point, but not everyone wants that. For some, if a story is hot, why not make it as long as possible? These stories usually aren't about the plot as much as they sexy parts. If you're thinking that something is too long, that probably means the author had a different goal than you.

[inm]

Guitarist said it - this is porn, but when you manage to add emotional content, build the characters, it becomes more than that, better.
My only request of writers - brevity should be kept out of descriptions of the bulges. There, please take your time, describe the scenery with long loving details, every fiber deserve its own praise, how it moves, how it reacts to stimulation... if this is porn, it should last a couple of minutes? if you know "The G", you know what I mean.

Thanks,
your resident morpher
please visit and comment

[lkjhgfdsa]

I'll quote a good friend who works in professional theatre: "Remember that a play is called a play for a reason." In other words, we're all here to have fun. Don't take everything so seriously.

Respecting writers who contribute their work to this forum, I believe they all deserve a measure of thanks. We're fortunate this internet forum continues to provide excellent free content when just about every other medium of quality charges for it.

Most of us clearly enjoy the stories that are posted here -- otherwise we wouldn't visit this forum. I believe it's important to realize that the professional writers who post here could earn thousands of dollars spending their time writing for other media, and they deserve our thanks. But putting that aside -- don't you agree that anyone, whether a working writer or not, who attempts to rock our socks from the kindness of their hearts should be applauded for their efforts?

It takes guts to post one's work -- whoever you are. So if you've enjoyed a story -- please take just a second after your happiness (!) has ended to say thanks to the writer.

If you haven't enjoyed a story -- post negatives if you wish, but realize that the writer has given his or her all for free, so harsh criticisms are unkind. No one will ever write a perfect story, and we all have room to improve. It may be good to consider whether constructive criticisms are best delivered through private message. (I personally have a thick skin, but how many of us would appreciate being called out or derided in public? Being a critic doesn't mean you're right. Art is subjective.)

I realize that I've contributed only a few stories to this forum -- but the ones I've taken the time and care to write have been donated from my heart. I sincerely hope that every writer who dares to contribute receives the respect they deserve.

[AuraTwilight]

Hi there, possible spambot.

[howardbeatman]

While a reader should expect to do some work in the reading of a story, the author should also expect to do some of the work to make the reader's experience both easy and enjoyable. Since all modern word-processing programs have spell-check and many have grammar-check, any author can improve a just-written story by having the computer do the work. And it does not kill any author to proof-read a story before posting it (I proof-read everything before I post... even email).

[matjtun]

hey man, just a pop quiz to see why your website is not working when i click on your link (no offence when it comes to bad errors lol)