Living with Muscle

Ah, "All American" football !

Well, in that light, Google again comes through.
http://eteamz.active.com/americanfoo....cfm?cat=17499

I'm not into competitive sports so somebody else explain it to us.

[wbhunk]

Actually, the term originates, I believe, with Walter Camp, who is generally considered to be the "father" of American football. ( http://www.waltercamp.org/ ). It's one of the more-abused terms in sports....heck, I was an "All-American" in football for the NAIA, one of thousands of "All-Americans" throughout the country.

[SithSpawn]

I acctually meant the "All American" in sporting terms as I keep hearing it in the WWE, one of whom is black so that completely destroys LG's description unfortunately.

Another little question now. As us Brits don't get to see much of American schools besides the typical stuff in most tv/films, I've always wondered what sports girls play in school? I mean, we always see that the guys play baseball, football, wrestling and all that but girls always seem to be portayed as evil, airhead cheerleaders. The only time I've acctually seen girls playing a sport was in the Princess diaries when they were playing softball.

In case you're wondering, girls in the UK play netball (crap version of basketball), rounders (closest think we have to base ball, good fun though), and maybe tennis or volleyball. There may be more but that's all they used to do in my school.

[glammaman2000]

...was legislation that mandated all schools must devote resources equally to boys&girls sports.this has caused some problems(american football is VERY expensive to support,some girls just aren't that interested,etc)given that cash-strapped districts have dropped ALL physical education,only wealthier areas have programs.theoretically;girls can sue to initiate any sport the boys have.the law HAS helped to increase girls'involvement.

Well, the WWE is about as legit and official as the worst of the tabloid newspapers so I wouldn't say being called "All American" by the WWE is any endorsement.

Fortunately "All American" appears to be one of those overly used phrases that because of it's overuse now means nearly nothing (or anything).

It's been a loooong time since I've been in school, but girls do play softball and vollyball and participate in gymnastics.

Unfortunately many public schools in the US have been trying to drop athletics, history and science opting for more important classes like sex education, ethnic diversity and creationism instead of evolution.

Never underestimate the depths of stupidity in the general public.

-- "Cynical? I'm not cynical, I find nothing worthy of that much validation!" --

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by LeatherGryphon

Unfortunately many public schools in the US have been trying to drop athletics, history and science opting for more important classes like sex education, ethnic diversity and creationism instead of evolution.

er, I think you mean, abstinence-only education, white/christian diversity and creationism (or perhaps, "intelligent design"). The first two things in your example definitely do not go with the third.

Scott

[Yachirobi]

LG, what's wrong with sex ed and diversity? As a gay man you ought to be the chief champion of such things. They're what help little conservatives turn into big conservatives without turning into big jerks.

And where are these schools that are dropping History and Science? What are they thinking?

[wbhunk]

It depends on the level and size of the school, Sithspawn.

In my little high school (grades 9-12, age 14 - 18), girls' sports included volleyball, basketball, track and field, and softball. Around here in Texas, schools will also include sports like field hockey, lacrosse, and soccer.

Title IX, which is the legislation to which glammaman was referring, is a section of the Education Amendments passed in 1972 which prohibits discrimination based on sex in educational programs at educational institutions that receive Federal funds. This is usually construed to mean equality of funding and participation activities for women relative to men's activities.

The impact of Title IX has been felt primarily on the college and university level, especially those that compete in American football. Because football is so expensive and has so many athletes competing, as compared to most women's sports, there must be cutbacks in funding and university-sponsored participation for other men's sports in order to equally fund women's. At two of the institutions I attended and taught at, the women's equestrian and rodeo team were given varsity athletics status and funding, including scholarships; however, to do so, the university had to move certain men's sports (in one case, soccer and lacrosse) to "club" status (did not offer scholarships), and in both cases, the men's team in both rodeo and equestrian were NOT made varsity sports.

Originally Posted by Yachirobi

LG, what's wrong with sex ed and diversity? As a gay man you ought to be the chief champion of such things. They're what help little conservatives turn into big conservatives without turning into big jerks.

And where are these schools that are dropping History and Science? What are they thinking?

Nothing wrong with sex-ed and ethic diversity but they are not more important than the basics

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...2/b3724005.htm
http://www.westville.org/Newsletters...atehistory.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/01...ful.physed.ap/

Following the line of thought about "little conservatives...big conservatives...big jerks" I can envision a country full of poor uneducated unhealthy superstitious people who work their entire lives to retire on nothing but get along well with their neighbors.

This is not the proper thread for this discussion so I'll drop it here.

[Bull]

The biggest sport for American girls nowadays is soccer (what the rest of the world calls "football.") But it mostly happens outside of the schools. Since in America virtually anything is more important than education, the schools have had little choice but to cut sports programs. When I was in school, sports was mostly an exercise in sadism, a means of creating a fascistic social order based on athletic ability and looks. It had nothing to do with fitness, and was a huge waste of the taxpayers dollars, so I shed no tears when it disappears. Now if they spent that money teaching kids about physical fitness, nutrition, sports skills and so on, that would be great. But there was never any teaching. It was assumed that if you were a real guy, sports were hard-wired into your DNA. Bitter? Moi?

[glammaman2000]

went to school in the post-sputnik period,when we all had to get smart(&fit!)to beat the commies.was hopeless at ball sports(which occupied most of our gym time)but an amazing athlete at anything that FORCED instruction!(gymnastics,wrestling,track,etc)sadly, it's not just sports that are disappearing.music,art....i was SO lucky....

[ethernet_jock]

Originally Posted by Bull

It was assumed that if you were a real guy, sports were hard-wired into your DNA. Bitter? Moi?

or that at least your father and/or brother(s) were commited to teaching you how to play and practicing. I can definitely understand that bitterness.

[Mdlftr]

Growing up, I always had the feeling like the other guys all knew some secret about how to be good at sports and well coordinated that I never got!

It's only later in life, working out on my own, that I finally got it---the 'secret' club did'nt really exist--I think it was just an environmental thing. If your family supported and encouraged you to be active and taught you WHAT to do, then you didn't feel like such a klutz when the time came to 'show your stuff'.

Since I never found the 'sports types' to be particularly welcoming or supportive, I can't say I weep for the Title IX cuts!

Incidentally, this ties into another big theme on this board, the feeling of being excluded from the "Cool" group in school!

[jcwise]

Growing up in small town Texas and not playing football definatly made you feel "excluded". Like most youngsters there, I wanted to play but was never able to add mass until after college. I graduated H.S. at 6'5" and 160 lbs. Thin and wiry does not even begin to describe me.

The Title IX cuts while difficult for the smaller schools to swallow, have overall been a good thing. I think the expansion of womens sports has helped a lot of women have a better opinion of themselves, especially the sportster girls we all knew growing up.

While I understand Mdlftr's and Bull's "secret" club viewpoint, the exclusion and inclusion of individuals in High School was always in the court of the individual! It is with time that we really see this, and hopefully pass down this information to the next generation. Because let's face it, high school was a minor blip on life's journey, and if it was more than that to anyone, then they really are not on the journey but trapped at a rest stop.

Just my humble opinion.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by jcwise

While I understand Mdlftr's and Bull's "secret" club viewpoint, the exclusion and inclusion of individuals in High School was always in the court of the individual! It is with time that we really see this, and hopefully pass down this information to the next generation. Because let's face it, high school was a minor blip on life's journey, and if it was more than that to anyone, then they really are not on the journey but trapped at a rest stop.

Just my humble opinion.

JCWise,
Good points. I am not personally stuck in "high school" mode (Oh God NO), but merely making an observation about the time. [At 6'2" and 140#, I would've been right there with you in the 'emaciated' club! Now at 6'3" and 210#, I've grown, and am continuing to grow, to my best self!]

Since I have kids, I will personally make sure to always encourage them to do their best, and remind them that people become good athletes or good scholars or good whatevers because they practise it, not because they are 'born' to it.
High school is a big marker in life, but it need not control anything. If your high school experience can be as positive as possible, it just makes everything that follows that much smoother.

Mdlftr

Originally Posted by Mdlftr

...
Incidentally, this ties into another big theme on this board, the feeling of being excluded from the "Cool" group in school!

That's me. I was the consumate computer nerd before there were computers. Even before I'd heard of the word "geek". Audio reel-to-reel tape recorders, film projectors, ham radio and B/W TV were about all there was for aspiring geeks to play with.

I hung out with the other uncool guys, the brains, the actors, the wimps. We were the group in the baseball outfield that kept sliding closer and closer together so we could talk and hope that the ball never came our way. We were the group that came in last running around the track. We were the group that were always picked last for any team and we didn't care.

Yet, if it weren't for the regular (45 minute class 3 times a week) I probably would never have gotten any exercise at all. I was stocky but I wasn't out of shape. I fit easily into President Kennedy's measure of "fitness" that first exposed the devolving physical standards in the school system. (40 years ago!).

There was one sport I actually looked forward to, gymnastics. I enjoyed that and I know it sparked my interest in bodybuilding. I could actually do it. Yea! Yes, I could jump over the "horse", flip around on the rings & high bar, climb a rope, tumble. Unfortunately it only lasted a month or so in the winter. I think the difference was that it was a competition with myself. Like bodybuilding. (Actually though, "Bodybuilding is a competition with gravity, and you always lose. However, learning to be an exhausted but graceful loser consistently, makes you a winner!")

Team competition is a turn off for me. Even the bodybuilding contests are not that interesting because of the competition thing. I think that it would be interesting to see what happens if a BB competition had no superlative prizes and instead concentrated on the type of show that could be presented with all that muscle.

[MuscleAvatar]

Also, at times when I've had my arms under my husband while we are on the bed, and I accidently flex, it hurts him. I used to think he was a wimp, but sometimes he gets bruises...>>>


Oh but what a way to get bruises. Sigh.

[brent]

Originally Posted by MuscleAvatar

Also, at times when I've had my arms under my husband while we are on the bed, and I accidently flex, it hurts him. I used to think he was a wimp, but sometimes he gets bruises...>>>


Oh but what a way to get bruises. Sigh.

I hate quoting the full text of the post under me, but in this case, it's totally true. I have to be careful with that too.

[SithSpawn]

Why is it that schools get rid of the cool sports that people like me would actually participate in just to have the "national" games instead.

I'm not a fit person by any means so any sport or activity that gets me excited must be good, unfortunately I hated football (soccer), rugby and cricket (dumbest game ever, I still can't work out the scoring).

The ones I enjoyed were volleyball (1 term, never offered again), trampolining (done about 3 times, then an after school club formed until the teacher decided he rather go home early than spend an hour with the four, that's right four, of us), a dance class (done once when it was too wet for cricket. YAY!).

I think the main thing I liked about all them was that they were played indoors and it wasn't always the jock types that were good at them, dance was ace, I loved it but it was really short lived. If they'd kept those activities going I might be a lot fitter now

[Voyager]

...who share my bad experiences with the high school gym classes. I would also point out that the gym teachers, at least in my school, were only interested in helping out those who needed no help -- the ones who were already athletic, not the overweight like me. Over 20 years since I have graduated and I still have those strong memories...pity.

I also enjoyed the not so popular 'sports' in gym class -- I joined the girls in an aerobics class, loved volleyball, and while everyone else was trying to go to health class during the Square Dancing timeframe, I looked foward to it. I still enjoy aerobics and am trying to find a good class again so I can lose some of these unwanted pounds (the treadmill just isn't cutting it).

Like others, that is why I enjoy weightlifting. There is no competition...I can lift what I want, when I want. Still, it would have been nice not to have been picked dead last each time in gym class.

[CanadianGordon]

Gym class. Now that takes me back.
I went to two high schools. One for grade nine, and then I got into the performing arts school I wanted to get into for grade ten and stayed there.
In grade nine, I was going to my home school, where I knew I wouldn't be popular.. Let me put this in perspective for you:
Wears glasses, not fit, Actor, flamboyant, and not out, and clueless about what gay was... So I was THE person to get picked on.. Sigh...
In gym class that year I got picked upon by a few of the "jocks" who thought it would be fun to push me down, and knock me over, and generally aim at me instead of being good sports...
Then I got befriended by two guys who were on the wrestling team.
Nicely compact and built. and strong...
Very nice. They became my "guards" as it were and if they saw me get pushed around, they pushed back. It became a brutal game that the friggen gym teacher never witnessed.
I know if I had to be there another year I would have kept up the weightlifting then. And joined a martial arts club for my own protection.
Still it was nice having the two top scorers for the wrestling team be my buddies... Alas nothing sexual ever happened...

[muscleted18]

haha i remember gym class, especially since my last year of it was last year , anyways, yeah i was picked on in gym class, but i had a couple advantages, i wasnt fit, i was overweight, but i swam on the swim time, i have amazing legs, so when we played games such as basketball or floor hockey, when the jocks would rush me and try to knock me down, i usually knew when they were doing to do it and could brace myself, rendering them on the floor instead of me, thats what you get for being a jock who doesnt pay attention to his legs and just builds his "show" muscles as i like to call them

another thing i had going was i was always quiet and shy, but when someone challenged me, boy did i, and still do, get VERY competative, so i would usually excelle once every so often just being fed up with the other guys telling me to get out of their ways.

the worst thing about my gym class was that my high school ran on block schedualing, so we had 90 lovely minutes of everyones favorite class......ever notice how alot of the guys on here were nerds, overweight, and just plain not athletic at some points in our lives? now look at us, lol, kinda ironic

[ethernet_jock]

Originally Posted by muscleted18

......ever notice how alot of the guys on here were nerds, overweight, and just plain not athletic at some points in our lives? now look at us, lol, kinda ironic

beyond ironic - it's uncanny. I'm definitely a member of that club as well - I think almost everyone here is to some degree.

[SithSpawn]

A question popped into my mind for all you bodybuilder types today, but it really seems inappropriate.

I was wondering...as you need to eat a lot more and down all those protien shakes do you *ahem* need to drop the kids off at the pool a bit more often?


I'm so, so sorry.

I'll get my coat.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by SithSpawn

I was wondering...as you need to eat a lot more and down all those protien shakes do you *ahem* need to drop the kids off at the pool a bit more often?

.

Well....let's say that it 'DEPENDS'....!

Nature definitely 'calls' more often!

...But you knew that!

[Marco_ukmus]

[color=white]

Originally Posted by muscleted18

...[/color][color=white]ever notice how alot of the guys on here were nerds, overweight, and just plain not athletic at some points in our lives? now look at us, lol, kinda ironic

[/color]

[color=white]Thought I should add a few comments here since reading every ones posts here really struck a chord with me.[/color]

[color=white]Yeah I remember gym class. I was the type of guy that was practically the last person anyone would ever pick to be in their team. This was not because I was fat or unfit, on the contrary, I was the second fastest runner in our year, but frankly when it came to playing sport games, I could not be bothered! I and my little crew used to chat about what ever was on our minds that day, constantly keeping an eye out for the gym teacher and making sure he did not notice us. * chuckle * it makes me laugh just thinking about it! That was challenge in itself ;0) Of course, I was another one who was bullied at high school, hell, I don?t think there is anyone that wasn?t! and that includes the bullies themselves! The reason I was bullied, at least as far as I have analysed it, was that I was practically the shortest person in my class, for being allegedly (modesty kicked in) intelligent and I guess also for not giving a toss about sport in any way shape or form! Mind you, having said that, I did have a lot of friends back then, both male and female, and played in [/color][color=white]two bands as well as help manage and operate the technical equipment for the school plays and concerts. Ah yes the good old days :0)[/color]

[color=white]I guess the reason why so many of us here have transferred/are transforming in to freaks, apart from the love for muscle of course, is that having been bullied, teased and tormented for long durations, there comes a point where everyone can?t take no more. And for that we change and become stronger people, with the mind frame that we won?t take no shit from anyone else in the future? like why should we! Its our life, why should a small minority rule our lives with stress. And so whilst your going through this transformation, you bulk up and move on. Of course, the stress of bullying can last for years, and in a lot of cases, a life time. It changes people. But, although this is hard for even me to admit it, in a way I?m grateful for the experience, as I know now that I?ve become a hell a lot stronger and a hell of a long way from the quiet, shy person I used to be. There isn't much now that I wouldn?t do anymore. Its true what they say, there is ALWAYS a positive side to every experience?[/color]


[color=white]Marc[/color]

[brent]

Originally Posted by SithSpawn

...
I was wondering...as you need to eat a lot more and down all those protien shakes do you *ahem* need to drop the kids off at the pool a bit more often?
...

In a word: YES. However, that just gives you more opportunities to walk by the mirror, so it's fine with me!

[Digibacker]

Hi guys. I haven't had a chance to read all the posts in this threat, but figured I'd mention some of my experiences in living with (new) muscle.

- I work for an ISP in Canada, and every time there's some new, heavy piece of equipment to move around, I'm now the first person folks ask for help. (And I'm a Web designer, not one of the techies!)

- I find I have problems finding a good sleeping position at night. My body parts intermingle in ways they didn't before -- lots of interference between bulges. (Plus, it doesn't help that a queen-sized bed is being shared with two dogs and another bear of a man with me.) Also, if I'm not careful and get a pinched nerve, I'll sometimes wake up in the middle of the night with a numb, limp, lifeless arm. That's weird -- takes having to use the other arm to pick it up and move it around.

- If I get an itch, I can't scratch (or even touch) my shoulder with the hand of the same arm.

[arpeejay]

Let's be perfectly clear about this:

Pix!

We want pix!

We want pix NOW!

Get cracking, OK?

xoxo

richard

Originally Posted by Digibacker

Hi guys. I haven't had a chance to read all the posts in this threat, but figured I'd mention some of my experiences in living with (new) muscle.

- I work for an ISP in Canada, and every time there's some new, heavy piece of equipment to move around, I'm now the first person folks ask for help. (And I'm a Web designer, not one of the techies!)

- I find I have problems finding a good sleeping position at night. My body parts intermingle in ways they didn't before -- lots of interference between bulges. (Plus, it doesn't help that a queen-sized bed is being shared with two dogs and another bear of a man with me.) Also, if I'm not careful and get a pinched nerve, I'll sometimes wake up in the middle of the night with a numb, limp, lifeless arm. That's weird -- takes having to use the other arm to pick it up and move it around.

- If I get an itch, I can't scratch (or even touch) my shoulder with the hand of the same arm.

[brent]

Originally Posted by Digibacker

...
- I find I have problems finding a good sleeping position at night. My body parts intermingle in ways they didn't before -- lots of interference between bulges.
...
Also, if I'm not careful and get a pinched nerve, I'll sometimes wake up in the middle of the night with a numb, limp, lifeless arm. That's weird -- takes having to use the other arm to pick it up and move it around.
...

I've had that same experience... a LOT! Anyone know how to prevent it?

Also, since you can't scratch your own shoulder, with the same hand (something I can still do), you must be HUGE! Please give us a pic of you, and you "bear of a man".

[Digibacker]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

Let's be perfectly clear about this:
Pix!
We want pix!
We want pix NOW!

Also, since you can't scratch your own shoulder, with the same hand (something I can still do), you must be HUGE! Please give us a pic of you, and you "bear of a man".

LOL...thanks for the welcome, guys. I don't want to get your hopes up too much. Still very much a work-in-progress. But I'm happy with the changes I've made so far.

I'll have to give a full run-down in another thread. In the meantime, here are a few details:

I'm 6' tall. In Feb 2001, I was about 175lbs. Now I'm hovering around 235-240. That's not all muscle, unfortunately. I have an odd build -- I inherited my dad's "gorilla belly", which makes me look like Roger Hazard without as much upper body development. My legs are the best part -- very hard and defined and I barely work them. Just over 25". My upper arms are currently sitting at 16" (from 14" a year ago). Chest is 46".

I don't have a lot of pics yet. Just a few headless shots I've used on some other sites, but here they are until I take some more:

[ethernet_jock]

woah... I have noticed some increased trouble in sleeping over the last few weeks that seem directly related to my laying position comfort.

I thought it was just me like... losing my mind or changing my habits or something but you guys have got me thinking now. Definitely an increase in parts of my body that go numb in the night and having to take my undershirt/wife-beater off when I go to bed now because it feels too tight on my chest when I'm sleeping.

Weird.

I can't identify with the scratching issue (I can scratch just fine) but the other things feel more familiar than I thought they would.

[ethernet_jock]

Very nice digibacker!! I posted my other reply apparently at the same time as you were posting this one.

Sounds like we have VERY similar builds with almost identical measurements and stats. Welcome to the forum!!

[glammaman2000]

..when you fall asleep.We've discused the problems of pain in your shoulders/clavicle as you get broader;especially if you sleep on your side.An extra pillow usually helps.If you sleep on your back & rest your hands on your chest;blood can settle back towards your elbows & your fingers fall asleep.Also;there is a large vein on the inside of your arms,between the bicep & tricep.As your arms get bigger & heavier,they can press on your ribcage & cut off some circulation to your hands.This is most noticeable when you're walking.(If it's JUST the left arm,you should see a docor)

[brent]

Originally Posted by Digibacker

LOL...thanks for the welcome, guys. I don't want to get your hopes up too much. Still very much a work-in-progress. But I'm happy with the changes I've made so far.

You should be, you've obviously worked very hard.

Originally Posted by Digibacker

I'll have to give a full run-down in another thread. In the meantime, here are a few details:

I'm 6' tall. In Feb 2001, I was about 175lbs. Now I'm hovering around 235-240. That's not all muscle, unfortunately. I have an odd build -- I inherited my dad's "gorilla belly", which makes me look like Roger Hazard without as much upper body development.

That's nothing to sneeze at. Roger Hazard has a very strong & handsome build. I like his belly. At 235, you are already heavier than I am.

Originally Posted by Digibacker

My legs are the best part -- very hard and defined and I barely work them. Just over 25". My upper arms are currently sitting at 16" (from 14" a year ago). Chest is 46".

You've obviously made good progress, but how big do you think your legs would be if you had trained them regularly? Maybe you should start now?

[Digibacker]

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

Sounds like we have VERY similar builds with almost identical measurements and stats. Welcome to the forum!!

Yes, indeed. Quite similar, though you're taller and I think you've got better torso proportions than me. Your chest is more prominent, which is what I'm still working on.

Originally Posted by brent

You should be, you've obviously worked very hard.

Thanks Brent, and everyone else so far. You guys are great. I'm really enjoying the camaraderie on this board.

Originally Posted by brent

That's nothing to sneeze at. Roger Hazard has a very strong & handsome build. I like his belly.

LOL...me too. I use him as my main motivation because I think he's got the proportions I'll most likely be able to achieve. Figured it was best to set realistic goals. (I'd rather not have the belly, but don't mind it. Plus, I like my chicken too much. Yum!)

Which reminds me, that's another big change you notice as you get more muscular. Your appetite soars through the roof!

Originally Posted by brent

You've obviously made good progress, but how big do you think your legs would be if you had trained them regularly? Maybe you should start now?

Well, I partly held off because they were really out of proportion with the rest of my body. I needed to spend the extra effort getting everything else up to par. Now I think everything's in sync, so I've started (three weeks ago) upping my leg training to keep everything growing at the same rate.

I'll have to take some leg pics to show you where they're at.

[glammaman2000]

...a good leg workout will burn more calories than anything else.

[ethernet_jock]

we always see ourselves in the worst light, don't we?

I disagree - I think you look better than me overall but.... whatever

keep up the hard work man! You'd make a great wrestling or sparring opponent for me!

Originally Posted by Digibacker

Yes, indeed. Quite similar, though you're taller and I think you've got better torso proportions than me. Your chest is more prominent, which is what I'm still working on.

[Digibacker]

Originally Posted by glammaman2000

...a good leg workout will burn more calories than anything else.

Oh, absolutely. My leg workouts get me huffing and puffing more than any other session, even compared to running on the treadmill.

As promised, here's a pic of my legs to show why I've been under-working them until recently.