Scott Walker Wins Recall!

[raven79]

This is a terrible sign for the unions in this country, which I grew up in earlier in my life. Without them, we will have no rights and no pay.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...eary-wisconsin

Good news is people are not taking this out on Obama in Wisconsin.

[CelticMuscle]

Fox News (which I know will generate cheers and groans in equal measure) gave the the following:

[COLOR="Red"]Walker, Scott (R) 54%[/COLOR]
[COLOR="Blue"]Barrett, Tom (D) 45%[/COLOR]
(88% of precincts reporting)

Could I ask what the result in 2010 was, as the swing will be in the important thing to look at here.

[raven79]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...7GN6wMrYx9efrw

Just about the same result Celtic!

[Ragetiger]

It's funny that he's the third governer that faced a recall, but the first to win it. It's sad how the unions tried to force him out over him striping a certain power from them. I forget which power the union lost over this. They just have to suck it up and deal with it.

[GoliathCA]

He took away collective bargaining. Imagine not forcing a worker to join a union? How mean! When there are unions for state employees, teachers, government workers that have more influence on politics than taxpayers, something is wrong. When pensions make up a majority of the state budgets there is an imbalance of power. Labor unions began so corporations wouldn't exploit workers. Now unions are used for extortion purposes.

[raven79]

While I do agree unions can be expensive, I completely disagree about unions being used for extortion.

If my father had never been part of a union, I would have been living in low income housing or worse living on the street. He was locked out of his job back in 1990 during a very dangerous time period where my family was being threatened for being part of a union. The company he worked for brought in cheap workers to take his place. This conflict nearly became a civil war and lasted until 1992, when the company ended the lockout and he went back to work.

This was national news in this country. Perhaps you have heard of this:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...CJ5hjwbssD8M_w

I know that this an extreme example of unions, but this pretty much saved not only my family, but also the community I lived in.

[nnnrg]

Unions still exist because they still have to exist. Their original purpose, to prevent the effective enslavement, abuse, and disregard for employees as persons rather than commodities, has not become obsolete.

As long as union organizers are still murdered, as long as corporations are still considered people and people are still considered interchangeable cogs, as long as the people running corporations think that they exist apart from the community where they operate and apart from the people who make them up, we will continue to need unions.

Unless you have a better idea?

[raven79]

Thank you nnnrg for understanding my reasoning. I'm glad someone on here gets it!

[Ragetiger]

Originally Posted by nnnrg

Unions still exist because they still have to exist. Their original purpose, to prevent the effective enslavement, abuse, and disregard for employees as persons rather than commodities, has not become obsolete.

As long as union organizers are still murdered, as long as corporations are still considered people and people are still considered interchangeable cogs, as long as the people running corporations think that they exist apart from the community where they operate and apart from the people who make them up, we will continue to need unions.

Unless you have a better idea?

I hate to say it, but where I'm living at, the unions do exactly what the model was designed to prevent. When you're forced to join a union, that's enslavement. Taking dues out from non-union members, that's abuse. When that non-union memeber that has union dues taken asks for help from the union but gets none, that's showing disreguard for employees as people.

Now I'm not saying all unions are doing it, but the teachers unioin in california are doing this. They have gone as far as threatning strikes everytime they don't get thier way. To make it worse, they just secured even more power from government, they cannot be laid off in times of budget shortfall. One school lost every bus driver as a direct result of this abusive power.

[raven79]

I guess it boils down to the different regions of this country. I know on the East Coast, unions are essential. We don't make that much money as it is so if we didn't have anyone helping us, we would be making less than the Chinese workers.

[cutlerfan]

I think as long as human beings place value on profit over people unions will be needed. I do feel some unions are bullies that suck more money from individual members than they need or should take. Make Better Unions not eliminate them all together! BTW Ragetiger..taking away collective bargaining does not mean unions can no longer force people to join. It means they have no ability to ask/demand changes to pay or benefits. Doesn't sound like much but if I just decided you should be paid 10 cents an hour for your work and you had no legal right to complain; it would be a very very big deal.

[Ragetiger]

Originally Posted by cutlerfan

I think as long as human beings place value on profit over people unions will be needed. I do feel some unions are bullies that suck more money from individual members than they need or should take. Make Better Unions not eliminate them all together! BTW Ragetiger..taking away collective bargaining does not mean unions can no longer force people to join. It means they have no ability to ask/demand changes to pay or benefits. Doesn't sound like much but if I just decided you should be paid 10 cents an hour for your work and you had no legal right to complain; it would be a very very big deal.

except that would be a clear violation of federal law which sets a minimum hourly wage. If I feel that I'm not making enough for the job, I'd start looking for the same position in a different company that has the wage I desire, or least more than what I was making.

For instance, I use to make 12 dollars per hour for diving a bus. that was after 7 years of being employed with them. There's a company not far from here offering the same job starting at 20 an hour. Sadly I wasn't hired by them, claiming "over qualified" and "not cost effective, due to travel time and distance". It was half hour drive each way.