Coming Out as a Bodybuilder/Muscle lover

[ethernet_jock]

? Muscle Car Magazine: Confused with an odd fetish.

hahahaha!!! hey now... I like my little souped-up ranger pickup truck.

but not like *THAT*

Otherwise - very well said! Thank yoU!

[arpeejay]

Usr101:

Sorry it's taken me a while to respond to your posting. I wanted to do so from the get go because it seemed so reminiscent of my own story, which is:

From the time I was just a wee lad I was alwasy obsessed with muscle. Tarzan, Hercules, Jack LaLanne (which dates me a great deal!), I always thought "ooh, I want to look like that."

On the other hand, I was also an EXTREMELY self-conscious child / adolescent and back then being highly interested in muscle was a very suspect point of view. So I tended to be secretive about my obsession with muscle.

I also wrestled with "what does this mean?" Did it mean that I was gay? Did it mean that I just wanted that kind of body? Did it preclude someday having a relationship with a girl (I very much wanted marriage, family, the picket fence, etc.; I was the eldest son of an alcoholic father, so I was VERY approval oriented...)

The upshot is that I never dated anyone until my early 20s, and then it was a girl I'd known for years and with whom I felt completely safe. After college we married and started life as a young couple.

Within a year I knew that I was, in fact, gay. "Face it, Richard," I told myself one evening after my wife had gone to bed. "You rarely have sex with your wife and when you do you think about men with muscles. In between the times you have sex with your wife you jack off thinking about men with muscles. This can only mean one thing..."

So, yeah, I was gay. But I wasn't willing to do anything about it. From my point of view, my relationship with my wife was more important than my sexual orientation. As time went on we had two kids, whom we both adore, but it became more and more difficult to pretend to myself that the fact that I was gay didn't matter. I would look at myself in the mirror in the morning and ask, "who are you?" The interval between sexual encounters with my wife grew longer and longer, but I still jacked off every night, and when I did I thought about men and just shook my head in dismay.

I finally came to the realization -- 11 years into our marriage -- that I *had* to lead my life as a gay man or that I was going to lose my mind and end up losing my life, thereby inflicting an irreconcilable hurt of my wife, my children, our friends and family. I came out (12 years ago this July) and I've dealt with it ever since.

And you know what? I'm NOT the muscleman I always wanted to be, nor is current partner, nor is my male partner (and love of my life) who passed away in 2001, nor was more than a handful of the many men who's sexual company I've enjoyed over the past dozen years. As I did with my wife, I fantasize about big muscular guys while I'm having sex with guys who aren't.

Early on I used to think, "so WHY did I go through all this?" And then I'd wrap my arms around whoever it was, tall or short, skinny or chubby, furry or smooth, older or younger, and I'd KNOW that it was right.

I've had some regrets over the past dozen years but not a one of them has had to do with the fact that I self-consciously chose to openly lead my life as the gay man I was made to be.

Hope this helps.

Muchas smoochas...

Richard Jasper
Ann Arbor, MI

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

as much as I hate to agree with Corwin about anything

That's because you are an idiot and I am not.

[arpeejay]

Corwin & EJ:

Get a room!

xoxo

richard

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

Corwin & EJ:

Get a room!

Let's see... in one thread, he is talking about how he wants/needs to cheat on his wife because his dick is getting hard, and on the other he is giving advice to someone confused about their sexuality.

Richard, you know I call them as I see them...

[usr101]

Thank you all very much for your thoughts - Corwin, ethernet_jock, biguglymofo, brent, and arpeejay. I appreciate it a lot.


And I'm sorry for what I'm about to say, but, Corwin, your hostility toward ethernet_jock is unnerving. I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about whatever history is the source of your animosity. And I would completely understand if you disliked any person. But even if you dislike a person, a public insult is just not appropriate.

Please forgive me. I just wish that human-kind could all get along. I greatly appreciate all the support I found here from everybody, including corwin and ethernet_jock. I really hope they can learn to let bygones be bygones. After all, I can clearly see that there is such a great community here. Thanks again.

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by usr101

T
And I'm sorry for what I'm about to say, but, Corwin, your hostility toward ethernet_jock is unnerving. I'm not going to pretend that I know anything about whatever history is the source of your animosity. And I would completely understand if you disliked any person. But even if you dislike a person, a public insult is just not appropriate.

There is a history outside this thread where the idiot totally misread me and started the insult war.

Also, the life he is leading, where he has feelings for guys, contemplates cheating on his wife, and has had secret indiscretions with men is exactly the type of unhappy life we are warning you against.

[ethernet_jock]

I have few things to say here beyond what clearly defines itself except that:

1.) I do not cheat on my wife actively, have not for about 2 years, and will not again. I've never had sex with another man... but I have done everything but that. I have always been completely open and honest with everyone on this system and that will not change. I was asking for advice on how to deal with the situation. It looks like everyone read it that way except for you, Corwin. And since when are you the pillar of Morality and the judgment of all? Certainly you never did ANYTHING morally questionable when you were only 23 or 24? Right.

2.) I don't presume to know anything about your life Corwin and I respect your powerful advocacy for the gay rights movement - I always have. I have also - for all intents and purposes "dropped it" for quite a while now. My remark about "hating to agree" with you was just a dose of my personality coming out and certainly not a personal attack.

Corwin - your persistant need and passionate desire to hate me - particularly when you're prepared to skew facts and arrive at false assumptions about my lifestyle - really paints a picture of ulterior motive and unfounded jealousy. It becomes even more prominent when you hijack another person's positive thread asking for help and advice to continue to perpetuate your hatred. Whether it's jealousy, passionate denial, or just outright personal hatred - it doesn't look good on you and it's not helping your cause.

I don't think I'm alone in seeing it that way. You need a mirror, and a powerful one at that.

[usr101]

There is a history outside this thread where the idiot totally misread me and started the insult war.

I'm sorry to hear that. Well... good luck to you both. The situation between you two obviously runs deep. Maybe I'm just a dreamer. Sometimes I just get sad when I think about all the conflict there is in the world. Will humankind ever achieve world peace? Just think about what it would be like. No more fighting between Palestinians and Isrealis, no more insurgence in Iraq, no more animosity between North Korea and everyone else, no more animosity between China and Taiwan, no more terrorists, no more wars, no more aggressive posturing, no more discrimination (People like me wouldn't have to struggle internally about possibly being gay because society would accept all people), and of course ..... no more ill will bewteen corwin and ethernet_jock .
Well, of course the world I described is not possible in our lifetimes. But a person can dream. Corwin, I wish you well. I hope you won't mind if I try to be friends with both of you. I feel so welcomed by this board. It makes me happy to know I can talk to all of you.

Also, the life he is leading, where he has feelings for guys, contemplates cheating on his wife, and has had secret indiscretions with men is exactly the type of unhappy life we are warning you against.

And to ethernet_jock, I'm sorry to hear about your personal struggles. I hope you find your way. Personal experience has taught me that life is hard and cruel and unfair. Our own mind betrays us, makes us unhappy, and can lead us to do something we don't want. I hope you don't mind if I add my input. To contemplate cheating and to actually cheat are two different things. Personally, I know what it's like to struggle with ones thoughts, just like my current struggle concerning homosexuality. So I urge you to keep your contemplations as only contemplations. I know that humans can't easily control their own thoughts. But we can control our actions. I urge you to do the right thing and not cheat on your marriage. My father cheated on my mother. It really hurt me deeply. I can't speak for my younger brothers, but I imagine that it must have hurt them too. Please, I hope you find the strength to resist your thoughts and take the right actions. Please don't cheat, especially if you have children that are still young.

I also know, personally, that relationships are very hard. Every serious couple has problems. No relationship is perfect. So ethernet_jock, I urge you to first explore the options regarding your marriage. Are you happy? Do you love your wife? Think back to the original reasons why you got married. If you think your marriage can be saved, then explore what options you can use to save and improve your marriage. If you think it cannot be saved, then explore your options for divorce. But please, don't cheat. And if you have already made the mistake of infidelity, it's not to late too late to take the right course of action. It's not too late to stop. Remember, you are in control of your actions. Be strong ethernet_jock. I know you can do the right thing. And I wish you luck in finding your internal strength.

Good bye for now. Good luck to everybody.

[Aikuchi]

no kiss and make-up?

ok, how about handshake and nod?

Agree to disagree?



Yes, I'm doing a horrible job and contributing and peacemaking. I should just shut up and draw more muscles (sigh)



Yinn

[usr101]

Originally Posted by usr101

...to late too late...

Is it possible to go back and edit a post so I can fix a typo?

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by usr101

Is it possible to go back and edit a post so I can fix a typo?

I think it gives you about 10 minutes to do that...

there is an "edit" button below the post

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

I have few things to say here beyond what clearly defines itself except that:

1.) I do not cheat on my wife actively, have not for about 2 years, and will not again.

"Just once, I'd like to meet a bisexual who *lives* with his boyfriend,
and *sneaks out* to see his girlfriend."
Torch Song Trilogy

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

I've never had sex with another man... but I have done everything but that.

This is so Bill Clinton.

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

I have always been completely open and honest with everyone on this system and that will not change.

again, not the point. being honest here and being honest in life are two entirely different things.

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

I was asking for advice on how to deal with the situation. It looks like everyone read it that way except for you, Corwin.

Looks can be deceiving.

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

And since when are you the pillar of Morality and the judgment of all? Certainly you never did ANYTHING morally questionable when you were only 23 or 24? Right.

Which of course has nothing to do with the thread you started a few days ago, right? Or are you claiming that you are 23/24? My point is about YOUR reaction, not his.

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

2.) I don't presume to know anything about your life Corwin and I respect your powerful advocacy for the gay rights movement - I always have.

Which again has nothing to do with any topic at hand.

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

I have also - for all intents and purposes "dropped it" for quite a while now.

Actually, you were in my ignore list until you decided to pop up here. You will probably go back there again since you really have nothing to say of any interest to me.

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

My remark about "hating to agree" with you was just a dose of my personality coming out and certainly not a personal attack.

Really? And it added exactly what to the conversation? what did it add to what you had to say?

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

Corwin - your persistant need and passionate desire to hate me - particularly when you're prepared to skew facts and arrive at false assumptions about my lifestyle - really paints a picture of ulterior motive and unfounded jealousy. It becomes even more prominent when you hijack another person's positive thread asking for help and advice to continue to perpetuate your hatred. Whether it's jealousy, passionate denial, or just outright personal hatred - it doesn't look good on you and it's not helping your cause.

persistent? heh. hijack a thread? This thread was about the similarities of coming to terms with liking muscular men and coming out as gay. It was not really about coming out as gay in general, but some people lately have been posting about that.

Coming to terms with your sexuality is not something, in my personal opinion, you know very much about. You really shouldn't be giving advice about it.

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

I don't think I'm alone in seeing it that way. You need a mirror, and a powerful one at that.

And I am not alone in seeing it the way I do, but that really doesn't matter at all does it? As I said, I call them the way I see them.

"I've taught myself how to cook, sew, fix plumbing and even give
myself a pat on the back when necessary. The only things I need from
anyone is love and respect and anyone who can't give me that has no
place in my life"

[arpeejay]

As Corwin knows, I spent the better part of a decade railing against what I perceived as my ill-treatment at the hands of various members of another online cohort, so it would be more than a little hypocritical of me to ask both of you to cease and desist.

I do, even so.

It's not worth it, for either of you, to expend this kind of emotional energy in a public forum. And it's either (a) boring or (b) extremely uncomfortable for the rest of us.

If you are overwhelmed by the need to argue with each other, please do so one-on-one.

I approve / like / hold in high regard BOTH of you, regardless of whether each of you individuallly can perceive that as a possibility.

Muchas smoochas...

Richard

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

As Corwin knows, I spent the better part of a decade railing against what I perceived as my ill-treatment at the hands of various members of another online cohort, so it would be more than a little hypocritical of me to ask both of you to cease and desist.

SEE! I told you you knew better than to fan the smoldering embers!

*smooches* back.

[ethernet_jock]

I approve / like / hold in high regard BOTH of you, regardless of whether each of you individuallly can perceive that as a possibility.

And that Richard I take as a major compliment. Thank you.


it's weird really - I have respect for Corwin despite my distaste for his personality disorder. Yet he can find none for me.... I suppose that's his choice.


Out of respect for you - Richard - and everyone else - I'm done with this discussion AGAIN becuase it really is going nowhere and never going to get anywhere.

Thanks for reminding me.



incidentally just to clarify to anyone else - I'm 28.... the 23/24 remark was about the period of indescrition that was being referred to.

[brent]

Originally Posted by Corwin

...
Also, the life he is leading, where he has feelings for guys, contemplates cheating on his wife, and has had secret indiscretions with men is exactly the type of unhappy life we are warning you against.

I've been trying to avoid getting dragged into this, but there is a point that hasn't popped up yet. I've had many bisexual friends. The one conclusion that many of them come to is that they eventually HAVE to make a decision as to what gender they want to be with for the rest of their lives. Some decide they like women, many decide they like men, but I haven't known any that don't contemplate cheating with the other gender from time to time. EJ has been pretty up-front about his bisexuality, and all the emotional strain that goes with it.

I consider myself as very lucky that I'm all the way on the gay side of the Kinsey scale, and have a degree of sympathy for people that aren't.

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by brent

I've been trying to avoid getting dragged into this, but there is a point that hasn't popped up yet. I've had many bisexual friends. The one conclusion that many of them come to is that they eventually HAVE to make a decision as to what gender they want to be with for the rest of their lives. Some decide they like women, many decide they like men, but I haven't known any that don't contemplate cheating with the other gender from time to time. EJ has been pretty up-front about his bisexuality, and all the emotional strain that goes with it.

Any emotional strain is caused by not being able to be completely honest with your partner and negotiating an arrangement that works for both of you. The fact that he cheated, as he admitted, and that he still thinks about cheating means that he feels constrained by rules that are being imposed on him from somewhere (e.g. society, his partner, some notion of himself, etc) and is uncomfortable with that. It doesn't matter where those rules come from, the strain is caused by his inability to reconcile his desires with those rules. Remember, this is a site that is pretty gay-oriented, whether people want to admit that or not. He has cheated, he goes to a website that has lots of gay pornography, he still feels attracted to men, and he feels the need to tell others about all of it. You do the math...

Now Brent, why did you want to continue this particular topic when it was happily dying down?

[Lucas88]

Originally Posted by brent

I've had many bisexual friends. The one conclusion that many of them come to is that they eventually HAVE to make a decision as to what gender they want to be with for the rest of their lives.

Okay, Brent, I'm not interested in the issues between Corwin and EJ...that's their business...but I have an honest question for you since I don't know ANYONE who considers themselves bisexual and, therefore, have no firsthand experience with how a bisexual person might think.

Do they really decide they're going to be with a man or a woman or is it about the person?

The reason I ask is, even though I consider myself to be gay, there have been instances in my life where a particular woman has really attracted my attention (and not because of her shoes or her dress...I'm not that kind of gay, I guess). There was something about the way the woman carried herself that struct a nerve in me and we really connected...and the only reason we didn't take things further was because of circumstances (i.e., one of us was in a relationship at the time or there was some crisis like a serious family illness or something that really didn't allow for any kind of long-term relationship at that point in time...circumstances or rationalization, I'm not really sure). For me, having sex and making love have always been two very different things, and making love was always about the person, not the gender. Like I said, I consider myself gay and I gravitate toward men (with muscles, naturally)...but every now and then, a woman really grabs my attention.

I'm curious as to you opinion about this from your discussions with your bisexual friends.

Thanks,
Lucas

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by Lucas88

Do they really decide they're going to be with a man or a woman or is it about the person?

It's about the person. Sex, as you point out, is just nerve-ending stuff. Love is something else entirely. Whether gay, straight, bi or whatever identity a person chooses, there will always be other people out ther they are attracted to. Ethically, the issue is how a person chooses to deal with that in their life. Lying, cheating, hiding is never morally acceptable.

[ethernet_jock]

I would love to dig into your past - corwin - and find all the times that you lied, cheated, or hid something from someone. Certainly not - you've always been the pillar of morality throughout your entire life, right?

What about everyone else who reads this forum - certainly nobody's ever hid anything from anyone, lied, cheated, stole?

mmm hmmm... right.

I also love how you continue to make assumptions about my life and my desires/obsessions without so much as even attempting to know me. Did you know that I really only touch the story's section maybe once a month or so just to see where things are headed? I tend to also skip over all the posts with "morphs" and sex-related scenes with only a few exceptions that interest me personally. Not that it's any of your business, because it isn't. Contrary to your opinion, this is not my #1 visiting spot.

Would you like me to elaborate more on my personal collection of straight/hetero pornography as well? Or would that just convince you that I'm even more of a "cheating type"?

Right - well I must be a horrible person because I made a huge mistake in my past to which I fully admitted... certainly that means I'll do it again, right?

---

I don't know about you, but there's a massive separation behind thinking, fantasizing, contemplating... and actually doing. I am bisexul and proud to be so, I'm not afraid of my own sexuality anymore. I will NOT deny that I have desires for men as well as women sexually - as would ANYONE, married or not. I'm not dead, I'm a young and sexually energetic man and I will have desires and I won't deny them. I've made a choice not to reveal my sexuality to most of the people I contact.... that's not a denial, it's a choice of action. I like to keep things simple... sexuality is not a topic that people ask me, and so it's not something I advertise either.

Desires - whether or not I act on them is the subject matter... and since I've reconciled myself with my past - I have not and will not do it again....

So I don't understand your problem. Certainly you've made mistakes in your life of which you're not very proud. Obviously you're SO ashamed of them that you won't talk about them publically at all (on here). Unprotected sex with another man - not a close boyfriend? just a guess...

So really - is that REALLY why you hate me Corwin? Because of a mistake I made a long time ago that I admitted to and reconciled as well as I possibly could? Is it because you don't understand how it is possible for me to be sexually attracted to both men and women at the same time? Does that scare you?

hmmmmm

[ethernet_jock]

argh... dammit

Sorry everyone, I know I promised to stop. But when I see my name getting dragged through the mud over and over again I just can't sit by and not say something. It just isn't in my nature to lay down and get run over.

Thanks!

[Mdlftr]

EJ

I've been reading this thread, and was going to comment, but everyone beat me to it.

It sounds like public confession here may be mortifying for the spirit, but ultimately good for the soul.

From my perspective (married, 40s, two kids, like working out, like bodybuilding, am getting bigger/stronger, but don't have 'massive type' genetics) I think you're a good role model (a bit too forthcoming perhaps, but honest about it.) for someone with questions.

Guys don't talk about their "sexuality". Just doesn't happen. Therapy is one place where people can do that. Online, where there's some privacy, is another.

You've shared your experiences and been honest about your feelings, and I give you a lot of credit for it. What you and your wife do is your business, and only the business of the two of you. Anyone else's comments are so much hot air.

Human beings are not nice, neat little packages that neatly divide into labels: gay/straight/bi/gay on alternate Tuesdays/Straight when she's a d-cup/etc. etc.

Anybody who tries to tell you "they've the ultimate lowdown on any of that is full of it." And I include all of the self-proclaimed experts out there, including myself.

You discover who you are through the process of living life and experiencing it.

All I would say to the original initiator of this thread is, be true to yourself, don't fall into some pattern of behavior because you think it's cool or politically correct or moral or because it's what everyone else seems to be doing. You need to examine your values and experiences and make a conscious choice. Try not to hurt anyone else while doing it, especially yourself. ALWAYS wear protection if you get physical. 5 minutes of intensity aren't worth years of disease.

Ultimately, you'll come to a place where you know yourself, and that's what YOU will know.

Good luck

Mdlftr

[Jinx]

Who needs Jerry Springer eh? lol

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[not2bright]

Wow, I'm really glad I stumbled onto this thread. I always thought I was alone in my confusion, but I've read what are almost carbon copies of my experience.

I, too, have been fascinated by muscle most of my life. And I always thought it was "bad" or something not to be spoken about. I had no athletic ability and dreaded gym days in school more than going to the dentist. It wasn't bad enough getting picked last for the proverbial team, but watching fist fights erupting over which team had to take me was almost amusing. I was helping the jocks to get bigger and stronger by just being there!

It wasn't until I moved 2,500 miles away from home that I even got up enough nerve to join a gym. And even then my approach was almost comical. I was so afraid that I'd be caught staring at other built guys that I purposely chose not to wear my contacts when I went. That way I wouldn't be able to focus on anything (and wouldn't notice the thousands of stares I expected for being skinny and woefully self-conscious about it).

But I soon learned two important things: First, not wearing corrective lenses in any public place can be bad, especially when you bump into people and/or things. And second, when at the gym, NO ONE IS LOOKING AT ME. Everyone is looking at themselves!

But I was never sure if I was gay or not. I dated some women in high school and college, but those were disasters. Not because it wasn't meant to be, but because they were all psycho hosebeasts! Ever had a girl try to commit suicide while on a date with you? Funny thing is, she's a lesbian now. I've never done anything with a guy.

I slowly got more comfortable in the gym, and hired a personal trainer to help me make some progress. But as time progressed, I noticed something. I was becoming less interested in watching other guys because they were huge or built or whatnot, but more because I was trying to learn better form and technique. I even got up enough courage to ask a stranger for a spot if I needed it.

But the ultimate accomplishment came when I was able to approach a well-built guy in the gym and either give them a compliment or ask for some tips or advice. I would _never_ have thought I could do something like that a few years ago, at least not without passing out in a pool of my own vomit. Sure, some guys are more appreciative and/or forthcoming than others, but I haven't been punched in the face yet.

After all that, I'm still not sure if I'm gay or not. I can appreciate a well-built man just as much as I can appreciate a good-looking woman. But despite my appreciation for muscle, I think that's all it is. If I see a built guy in the locker room with his shirt off, sure, I'll take a look. But as soon as the pants come off, I lose interest. I went to my first bodybuilding show last week, and I was wondering how I would react to all that muscle on display. It was a fascinating experience, and if nothing else, it served to deepen my appreciation for what the human body is capable of. But it didn't do anything of a sexual nature for me.

So if you're still awake after reading this, what do you think? Am I okay, or is all this just a thinly veiled cry for help?

[Mdlftr]

Not2

Good post. You're not alone. It's perfectly possible to be straight, be impressed and like guys with good builds, and....nothing. That's it. No sexual attraction, no fireworks, no-hidden-desire-that-you-subconsciously-repressed-your-whole-life, none of that.

Granted, some guys are gay and don't know it. Some guys are straight and aren't sure. No worries. Everyone has the "dates from h*ll". That's a reflection of them, not you. [Sounds like a great story!]

I'd just enjoy the working out, get comfortable with yourself and your interest in looking good, and don't sweat it. Have you ever seen/heard two women discuss another woman in a magazine, say a model or something? It's the type of conversation that two guys would NEVER have: "Oh, she's so pretty." "Oh I wish I had a chest like hers." "I love her face. She's got great lips." It doesn't mean they're lesbians. Women are just much more comfortable about dissecting another woman's appearance and saying what they do and don't like.

Guys don't /can't do that. They feel all 'weird' about it, and think it must "MEAN" something about them when they notice another guy's muscles or clothes or face. Don't let anyone with an agenda tell you what you "must be". It's your life, not theirs. Guys notice plenty of stuff, want stuff that other guys have that they think are cool or neat or attractive (muscles, money, cars, etc.) and that's it.

Mdlftr

[brent]

Originally Posted by not2bright

...
Am I okay, or is all this just a thinly veiled cry for help?

UM, the latter maybe? I'm kidding. I think you are fine. You might not all the way on one side of the Kinsey scale, or the other. I don't envy your finding the path that's right for you, but either way, just do what makes you happy, not others. I think you are making great personal progress, and should be proud of that.

[arpeejay]

It doesn't work the same for everyone but...

(a) If you get hard looking at guys but you don't get hard looking at girls, you're gay

(b) If you get hard looking at girls but you don't get hard looking at guys, you're straight

(c) If you get hard looking at girls AND looking at guys, you're bisexual

If you don't get hard looking at guys OR girls, then you're one of those rare guys who aren't visually stimulated and you'll have to do more work to figure out what's really going on.

xoxo

Richard

[DamienONIX]

I'm bisexual... not because i want to be.... it makes things really difficult... guys think it's a gimmik and get either condesending about it or totally freaked out.... especially when the guy ur dating realizes ur perfectly capable having sex with a woman and often fantasize about it... it speaks to thier inner most insecurities... and as for girls... well u just can't tell girls... they dont get it at all...
all my ex-girlfriends did though.... im just a very... sexual person,
For those who don't understand the practice of modern bisexuality.... or don't believe in it like it's the tooth fairy or santa claus... here's how mine works...
like most men i need to sexually objectify the object of my lust, but im uncomfortable sexualizing women... so i objectify men instead, but in the context of a relationship i have no problem getting hard and nailing the girl i have an emotional attachment to,
i have had 2 very long term relationships with girls and they basically were amazing... i'm only now trying a long term with a guy... thier's really no big difference between the two... cept when u date a guy.... who's relatively ur size... u double ur wardrobe
I think it harkens back to the classic GREEK arrangement- u have a wife for family and companionship...and alot of able young boys on the side for greco roman wrestling
onix

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by DamienONIX

here's how mine works...
like most men i need to sexually objectify the object of my lust, but im uncomfortable sexualizing women... so i objectify men instead, but in the context of a relationship i have no problem getting hard and nailing the girl i have an emotional attachment to,
i have had 2 very long term relationships with girls and they basically were amazing... i'm only now trying a long term with a guy... thier's really no big difference between the two... cept when u date a guy.... who's relatively ur size... u double ur wardrobe
I think it harkens back to the classic GREEK arrangement- u have a wife for family and companionship...and alot of able young boys on the side for greco roman wrestling
onix

Heh. You only double your wardrobe if you are the same size.

People define their relationships. Wife, kids and greco roman wrestling are perfectly fine as long as everyone is honest with everyone else. My point is one of honesty and being true to yourself and your loved ones. Some people who cheat and lust and lie and seek refuge on the internet are doing everyone a disservice.

[Corwin]

Originally Posted by Mdlftr

From my perspective (married, 40s, two kids, like working out, like bodybuilding, am getting bigger/stronger, but don't have 'massive type' genetics) I think you're a good role model (a bit too forthcoming perhaps, but honest about it.) for someone with questions.

On April 17, 2005, while this thread was beginning, this was posted in Off Topic Discussions in a thread Friends that make life complicated :

Originally Posted by ethernet_jock

So anyway. Now I'm stuck in an odd situation. I don't want to lose my best friend and I REALLY don't want to lose my wife or family. Do I go on and play with him like my dick tells me it wants to do? Do I tell him that we just can't do this? Do I lose a best friend one way or another?

Role models are people who demostrate to others how to pattern their lives. Role models serve to inspire others with their successes and what they learn from their failures.

What occurs between EJ and his wife is certainly their private business. He (apparently) did not share this with his wife, he shared it with us. We encourage people who are confused about their sexuality to be honest with themselves and others around them. You may think EJ is good role model for these confused people. I don't.

[Timothy]

Uh, I'm kinda new to this archive. But I feel like I belong here considering my past history.

The first 18 years of my life were hell; my father sexually abused me, beat me, ridiculed me. It was like living in a concentration camp, never knowing what was going to happen next.

Then came puberty and I found that super-hero comic books turned me on. Then I found muscle mags (which at first scared me - I was only 12) which I masturbated to.

I was NEVER allowed to be myself; every action was regulated. So I it never dawned on me to take the time to by myself, to figure myself out.

So after college, I did what everyone expected should happen: I got married and was drafted in the Navy. I was so compartmented in my mind with no bridges between tghe compartments to get a total picture of what was going on with me.

I have three wonderful daughters and a now ex-wife. My ex and I get along wonderfully, have even taken trips together and enjoy our kids and grandchildren - I am in my fifties now and healthy.

I have been living with my partner for six years now and we are very happy. I have been in intensive therapy for ten years now and I would have to say it has been difficult at times. I have had a horrible self image and other core issues that seem to be hard-wired into my brain. But we are working on that.

THE POINT IS: We all need to be OURSELVES and the heck with those who disapprove. If someone has a problem with my sexuality (I do not anymore!), I tell them that their opinion of me is none of my business. Those who think about what they are hearing really stop and think about that one!

And, wonderfully, when I finally came out, I was awe-struck at the support I received from those around. A few had a hard time about it but eventually came around once they realized I was the same person they knew. Those who talk behind my back are judgemental and certainly unChristian.

I once thought a special place was reserved for me in Hell. But that was rooted in guilt-trips and my own self-image. Delving into that, I have discovered that true Christianity is not like that. God is not judgemental, he just wants you to move closer to him.

Well, I have probably gone on too long. Peace to you all.

Timothy

[deetrakt]

...(funny you should mention it, arpeejay)

In today's New York Times there's a major article on the "Asexual" movement, something I had no idea existed and apparently a happening thing. Not religiously or morality-based celibacy, but people (as many as 1 1/2 percent of the population) who claim they either have no sexual urges or have urges but no desire to act on them. Who knew? And they're organizing, lobbying for acceptance, you name it.

Worth reading about and thinking about. Although the whole "Asexuality" thing sounds a little like an improv sketch, maybe the lesson is that people should try accepting others' choices regardless of how bizarre they seem to them (and this certainly sounds bizarre to me).

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by Corwin

Role models are people who demostrate to others how to pattern their lives. Role models serve to inspire others with their successes and what they learn from their failures.

As I said before, and I'll say again: someone who is honest about the complications of life, like EJ, who lays it ALL out, not just the "politically correct" or "socially appropriate" moments, is a good role model for someone with questions.

People DON'T talk about everything: there are LOTS of urges, questions, doubts and thoughts that people have, that they don't articulate.

Every choice has consequences. This whole string pointed that out, also.


Mdlftr

[ethernet_jock]

it's nice to know that some people understand where I've been trying to go this entire time.



Thank you. My spirit feels a bit lighter today.