Myostatin Update

[dallasmsl]

I found the following Myostatin update via NPR's radio program. This is the audio portion. You'll have to click on the "listen" button. It sounds like it is getting closer and closer to coming to "market" which most probably means coming to black market as well.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...c=emaf&sc=emaf

Let me know what you think.
Dave.

[TheMM]

I can tell you that bodybuilding's gonna be a real interesting sport that's for sure. Although it's true value is the fact that so many people are gonna be helped because of this.

Maybe soon I can get the bod I've always wanted.

[dallasmsl]

Ligand Pharm. is testing a product that OPENS closed receptors. Receptors don't close just because of juice but they close with age. As one gets older, the receptors close thus hurting possible testosterone efficiency which leads to many medical complications. There was an article in this month's MD. Check it out.
Dave

[Yachirobi]

I just hope this doesn't lead to people hurting themselves. I don't care how big the muscles are or how hot the guy looks. It's not sexy to kill yourself just to look good. It's stupid.

[TheMM]

Yep Yach. AS hot as this anti-myostatin (or whatever it's called) sounds, there's unfortunately one thing that stands in our way:

Human anatomy.

Damn it.

[dallasmsl]

We won't know until they bring it to market. Hopefully, that will be soon.

A boy can dream, can't he?

[TheMM]

True I suppose my little (read: big) muscled friend.

Perhaps I'm overeacting or even underreacting, only time will tell.

[dallasmsl]

Naw, you're not overreacting....I'm "over salivating"!!!

I've been training for 20 something years and the thought of something as powerful as a myostatin-blocker coming to market just trips my mind.

[RyBearATL]

I heard the NPR article and looked around online. I'm exceptionally intrigued by this. Actually, if it came through clinical trials OK I'd probably try it right away, if it was anything like affordable.

1. The animals (and human with the mutation) don't exercise - but have huge muscles.
2. They appear to live normal lives otherwise. In otherwords, this mutation doesn't seem to have direct drawbacks.

I can kind of understand ("make up understanding", that is) about #2. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here. There are basically 3 kinds of muscle in the body: cardiac, skeletal, and smooth. I.e. heart, bicep, and digestive tract (in order). If this mutation and/or chemical only affects the growth factor for skeletal muscle...I can kinda understand where this would work OK. This is as opposed to not being differentiated and affecting the heart (cardiac) as in an enlarged heart, which is often a big problem.

I like working out, but I'd rather get the results safely that this thing possibly would give! I'm going to watch this very closely!!!!

Best,
R

[dallasmsl]

From what I understand and from what I've read from all of the testing and non-testing observances (of people and animals with natural low-or-no myostatin), it only affects the skeletal muscles.

If the drugs work the same way, I'm sure they won't at first be "affordable" but in dealing with the black market, if they actually bring the drugs to market, they will be copied almost immediately and sold the same as current steroids are sold.

[dallasmsl]

The story linked below is interesting but it is the last few sentences that make it intriguing. I wonder if it is based on fact and if so, ....questions abound.

Dave.

http://www.sptimesrussia.com/index.p...story_id=19602

?Some risk-takers already know what to do ? inject yourself with antibodies of myostatin, a protein that acts by inhibiting the growth of muscles ? and you will see your muscles growing at high speed,? Akhmetov said."
Where can you get antibodies of myostatin??? News to me!

[optimusx]

Very interesting reads! That's a new one on antibodies. I can't recall ever hearing something like that done before. I've seen dead or weak viruses used to create resistance to a strong/live strain but never antibodies to block an organic chemical reaction. Granted, I'm not a bio-chemist either... electrons and protons I know, OrganicChem, not so hot on.

Keep us up to date if you find anything else!

**quick edit: I just did a quick look around and amazingly enough, there actually are bio distributors that sell the stuff. Granted, it's listed for research and last I checked those antibodies are not classified as a deadly disease, so that may be why they're available for purchase. And the world turns...

Scott

[dallasmsl]

Sometimes, I feel like I'm "posting to the wall" when I get no feedback. I've heard and actually read about the bio companies that provide Myostatin but not anti-bodies; at least that was the way I read it. So, I'm not sure what these renegade companies are selling as anti-myostatin blockers.

However, I have heard of Chem scientists (of the renegade brand) who are salivating at the mouth for the real deal to hit the market.

[redwolf64]

Just curious - what do we look for to know when the "real deal" has hit the market? By the time the news media picks up on it, it will be yesterday's news (and likely on the verge of being banned).

[dallasmsl]

Wyeth Labs will be certain to make a big announcement. I have my news "feelers" set for any updates on Myostatin so that's how I get my updates.

DAve.

[msclbldr]

Here's the update you were expecting

http://biosingularity.wordpress.com/...uilding-agent/

[dallasmsl]

Thanks for the link to the site!

[RyBearATL]

I read the article.

I can't see not at least trying this if it hits the market & passes trials. I imagine that all the "youth enhancement services" type companies (i.e. "We'll perscribe you the drugs you want") would do off-intended-use of this in a heartbeat.

-R

[dallasmsl]

True but remember that "trials" and federal approval could take 5 years, especially since they are still testing it on mice. I have a feeling that once it goes into human testing, it will go into black market production. And then I'll volunteer to be a human mice!
Dave

[TheMM]

A friend called me up recently with a question about myostatin, I had told him to begin with, and it was this: Does the anti-myostatin cause the muscles to simply grow, or make it easier to grow (workout)?

Now when I heard that and was about to tell him...my mind went blank, perhaps someone can refresh me?

[RyBearATL]

Originally Posted by dallasmsl

True but remember that "trials" and federal approval could take 5 years, especially since they are still testing it on mice. I have a feeling that once it goes into human testing, it will go into black market production. And then I'll volunteer to be a human mice!
Dave

Probably me too, from what I see so far. It's just amazing.

[viamanmax]

When myostatin is produced, it causes the body to stop repairing its muscles. The blocking agent causes the myostatin in the system to become inefective. This causes the body to repair its muscles in a much more continuous fashion. This cases growth such as the sixty percent muscular increase in the lab mice.

[dallasmsl]

Originally Posted by TheMM

A friend called me up recently with a question about myostatin, I had told him to begin with, and it was this: Does the anti-myostatin cause the muscles to simply grow, or make it easier to grow (workout)?

Now when I heard that and was about to tell him...my mind went blank, perhaps someone can refresh me?

Myostatin is the body's own limiter of the growth of muscle. Someone earlier stated that it stops the repair of muscle but I do not recall reading that anywhere (not saying he is wrong; just that I do not recall seeing that). As a result of blocking the muscle-inhibiting agent, the bodies muscles grow uninhibited. Apparently, one does NOT even need to work out since mice and cows do not workout and their muscles grow to very impressive dimensions. Again, human testing has not yet begun. (that I know of).

[RyBearATL]

Anyone know anything about persistence after treatment is withdrawn?

i.e. the treatment appears to allow the muscular growth at (say) 15X normal rate, due to removal of "teardown" action. Once the treatment is withdrawn, i.e. injections stop, what happens to the treated mice? I'd wonder if they slowly revert to baseline or if the body has an accellerated teardown.

I don't recall seeing that in the publications. There's a condition (Rabdo?) where the muscle cells are breaking apart and release various contents into the bloodstream. It's pretty dangerous - by chance I've known two people with it. One was watched closely, the other was hospitalized.

-R

[dallasmsl]

I've not heard of what happens AFTER you discontinue use of a myostatin blocker. Your post sheds light on one aspect I had not thought of (or maybe I just didn't WANT to think of the bad side).

Again, we await the trials. Doh!

Dave

[viamanmax]

The post treatment depends on the tactic taken. The first method is to take a blocker continuously. When one quits this method it should be much like a bodybuilder who normally stops working out. Note, myostatin is reduced naturaly by causing muscle damage by working out. The second method lasts forever and in a gene therapy that prevents the body from producing it in the first place.

[RyBearATL]

Originally Posted by viamanmax

The post treatment depends on the tactic taken. The first method is to take a blocker continuously. When one quits this method it should be much like a bodybuilder who normally stops working out. Note, myostatin is reduced naturaly by causing muscle damage by working out. The second method lasts forever and in a gene therapy that prevents the body from producing it in the first place.

Do you have a specref (specific reference) for the first statement? I'm not arguing, I'd just like to read the research myself. I think we're a lot liklier to see the antibody approach for a long time, as it could be withdrawn if needed, as opposed to a gene therapy approach.

Thanks,
R

[dallasmsl]

Originally Posted by viamanmax

The post treatment depends on the tactic taken. The first method is to take a blocker continuously. When one quits this method it should be much like a bodybuilder who normally stops working out. Note, myostatin is reduced naturaly by causing muscle damage by working out. The second method lasts forever and in a gene therapy that prevents the body from producing it in the first place.

Thanks for the information. However, and not meaning to be argumentative in the least, but I have not read before where the body's own natural myostatin is reduced by causing muscle damage (working out). I wish it were true but I do not see or have heard of the correlation between working out and the levels of the body's "muscle monitor". Again, it would be nice but...

Can you provide any further data?

Dave

[Renaldo]

If it does make it onto the market soon I'd wait until it's been out a while before taking it.

[TheMM]

Yeah I agree, wait for the tests, wait for black market use, then wait for it to be gotten around some.

One thing I hope though, is that you can take it as a pill, I hate needles. *shudder*

Also, when there is a human testing (that we hear about) it's gonna be one hot MGS! Although watered down a lot by the news.

[dallasmsl]

Originally Posted by Renaldo

If it does make it onto the market soon I'd wait until it's been out a while before taking it.

Yeah, that does sound like the smart thing to do.

<note to group: I'm not very smart>

[msclbldr]

Here are some further article on the Myostatin, IGF-1 and their effect on the control of skeletal muscle growth

http://fig.cox.miami.edu/~cmallery/113/muscle.cell.pdf
A good comprehensive description of how muscle cells resond to stress, repair themselves and grow as well as a descrition of the effect of IGF-1 and Myostatin.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=34713
An article concentrating on trials of a myostsin blockers including dosage and results

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/...cle-growth.htm
Another artile about the german baby with the myostatin gene mutation plus a bit about Wyeth's new myostatin blocker

http://www.1fast400.com/a14_Myostati...ny__genes.html
an article from a bodybuilding stance, but it seems rather more informed that the usual "Muscle and Fitness" rubbish

[dallasmsl]

I should have time to read it today since I'm still under the weather. I went home to California and think I caught one of those airborne virus' on the way back. I'm lucky I work for a company like I do and can call in sick. It feels like the flu. Yuck.

[TheMM]

A little offtopic, but I do believe we're all forgetting the real reason why they're making myostatin blockers....

[dallasmsl]

Thanks for the post Big MM, but I don't think anyone has forgotten why they are working on Myostatin Blockers. Did you know that anabolic steroids were first introduced as a cure for homosexuality? That people thought that all homosexuals needed was more testosterone and that would cure them from being gay? How ironic that now bodybuilders and gay men use them for getting bigger and stronger; not going away!

Myostatin Blockers are being developed to help stop the muscle wasting symptoms of many diseases including HIV.

But I suppose your point is to be our moral compass?

[TheMM]

That's correct. Ugh, couldn't think of about why they're makin them at 3 in the mornin.

Also, interesting about the steroids thing.

[nnnrg]

Well, frankly, I have a lot of danger signs for early death from heart disease.
If they had a myostatin blocker/knockout that I could use NOW, I would, because there are two effects to blocking the stuff: it makes bigger muscles without massive increase in exercise levels, and more importantly, it greatly reduces bodyfat.

I don't know, and they won't know until they test it, whether the reduced bodyfat would be a benefit in someone who did not have the gene knockout, but it seems very likely, given the greatly increased metabolic load of the extra muscle tissue.

[dallasmsl]

Originally Posted by nnnrg

Well, frankly, I have a lot of danger signs for early death from heart disease.
If they had a myostatin blocker/knockout that I could use NOW, I would, because there are two effects to blocking the stuff: it makes bigger muscles without massive increase in exercise levels, and more importantly, it greatly reduces bodyfat.

I don't know, and they won't know until they test it, whether the reduced bodyfat would be a benefit in someone who did not have the gene knockout, but it seems very likely, given the greatly increased metabolic load of the extra muscle tissue.

Like you, if I could find it available, i'd take it. <sigh>

[viamanmax]

It is extremely unlikely that either a binding agent or a viraly introduced gene knockout would not be at least somewhat harmful to a pre existing heart condition. One of the problems is that there is still lacking proof of if this will trigger some kind of change in cardiovascular afiliated tissues. Another problem is that a large body mass regardless of fat or muscle is hard on the heart, it matters little what kind of tissue it is. In fact the fat tissue does not trigger the temporary increased flow that the muscles require. In spite of this, some things are worth the risk. I will so try and aquire this through my Biomedical Engineering Department as soon as it becomes remotly available. Too bad the potential treatments are under several patents.

[RyBearATL]

Hopefully this will successfully move through trials.

http://www.pharmalive.com/News/index...&categoryid=40