Gay, but has to Sleep With Women

[ydt81]

(Inspirations for this one were kind of complicated so just hear me out and I'll explain later.)

I'm willing to bet my bank account that somewhere out there is a story about a straight man who gradually experiments with other guys; where he learns to lust after and even care for another man.

I was interested in seeing something like the opposite. I haven't decided whether his ultimate sexual preference changes. He'd AT LEAST learn a lot about how the other side is living.

The basic premise would be: a certain gay man (or group) grows and/or becomes more masculine with repeated sexual contact with women. The explanation could be anything from something about testosterone levels to a spell cast by a scorned witch at the gym. Either way, I know it's not very politically correct...



Before fleshing out further, I first wanted some feedback: Who would be the audience for this sort of story? They say if you try to write for everyone, it'll work for no one... So gay/str8/bi who'd be interested in reading this kinda thing?

[ydt81]

I had the idea a while back but it resurfaced due to various factors:

-Watching QaF: Lez hitting on a gay guy
-Question of "sexual orientation being a social construct", that I've heard a few people mention during the past year
-I could be sort of olive branch in light of some arguments I've seen on the forum lately.

-I'm a sucker for cuckolds between gay/straight characters and it's almost nevvver done

[Ogun]

I'm not sure I personally would like this one but I had an idea where it was similar sort of, but in reverse 'cause the guy was generally straight. s The guy was a new-minted superhero who was told he could grow stronger by absorbing the "essence of heroes" but then the lab was destroyed so he had no clear idea what that meant. . So he eventually figured out h needed to consume the semen of heroic people ( firemen who rescued people and similar guys) so he ends up seducing them. However, he also started dating one of the girls he rescued, so the entire thing got very awkward when he had to tell her just how he powered up . . .. At the very end after he defeated whatever the threat was (I think it was a giant alien) he nearly falls of fa building but his girlfriend ends up saving him. She points out to him that it makes her a heroine. He joyfully enters the apartment with her; the door slams shut behind them.. . You get the idea.

[MuscleHintz]

I honestly would really enjoy a story about a gay man learning to lust after women, as a bisexual myself... just keep the focus on MALE MUSCLE GROWTH, and I think this forum would be a great place to post it

[Yachirobi]

YDT, did you miss the entire flame war over this topic just a few months ago?

I think it's a kind of story that's fair to the straight members of the board who've shown themselves to be very accepting, even accommodating, in regards to the homosexual focus of most muscle growth stories. However, I'd personally prefer such a tale to feature a man becoming bisexual or maybe just fucking women because he needs to fuck so bad that gender doesn't matter. I'm also into gay guys who fuck women in order to sire children. Sex is sex, y'all. And vaginas feel nice.

[muscleboytom]

Interesting concept! Look forward to seeing your creativity on this one!

For me personally, I can imagine several gym girls that have piqued my interest. Would be hot to explore and grow my muscles bigger through sex with them! Maybe a threesome with another muscle dude as well thrown in for the mix.

Just thinking out loud...

[Reeza]

I think it could work very well for a lot of readers. I'm gay, and I could imagine a gay character being turned on by the effects his body can have on women without actually being attracted to women's bodies. Of course it would be best if he wasn't disgusted by female anatomy. The fact that he would be growing more masculine during these sexual encounters would make it all the more appealing. In a way, he would be getting off on his own body while he's with women. I don't think I would like him to change his sexual orientation, though.

This would not be a story about straight muscle growth, which is what that flame war was about.

[Mdlftr]

It sounds like an interesting premise, which, as several people have pointed out, would be somewhat new for this forum!

I'm all for it. I agree with Yachirobi, who said,
"Sex is sex, y'all. And vaginas feel nice."


Male muscle growth should be the main focus, IMO. The sex could be "off stage" for those of you of tender sensibilities.

Typical cinematic stand in for "intimate relations": rainstorms seen from inside through lace curtains, bed room doors shutting, the soundtrack of bed springs and exclamations on the other side of a wall....

Go for it!

Mdlftr

[ydt81]

Thanks for the feedback so far, guys. I think so far Reeza (and Musclehintz to some extent) are the closest to getting where I'm going with this one.

Originally Posted by Reeza

I think it could work very well for a lot of readers. I'm gay, and I could imagine a gay character being turned on by the effects his body can have on women without actually being attracted to women's bodies. Of course it would be best if he wasn't disgusted by female anatomy. The fact that he would be growing more masculine during these sexual encounters would make it all the more appealing. In a way, he would be getting off on his own body while he's with women. I don't think I would like him to change his sexual orientation, though.

Reeza, the turn-ons you mentioned are definitely all part of what I had in mind. There's a bit of a conundrum where his ultimate 'sexual orientation' is concerned. After all if he does begin to have sex with women, in essence he's at least bi now, no? But anyway, I think I'm with you; I know I compared the plot to a straight-->gay fantasy but this would not be the reverse. While part of the story's intent is to blur some lines, personally, I just wouldn't be interested in the character ending up with a woman...(in a traditional way).


In hindsight, I really left a lot up to the imagination. Let me be more clear:

@Yachirobi and Mdlftr:

Yes, while "sex is sex, y'all; vaginas feel nice" is one of the lessons the main character ultimately learns, without a different set of assumptions, there's no story here; that's what I'd like to focus on.

I really love the idea of novel irresistible desire compelling characters to do things they never imagined.
The notion of transformation--awakening, "coming of age" (however old)--is really a powerful theme on this site.

This is part of the reason I don't want to skimp on *pertinent* sexual details. Personally, I'm not of the school of thought that views sex as an obstacle to storytelling. And not to be rude or presumptuous, but I'm willing to bet a kidney that straight sex is not as offensive to a gay man's sensibilities as the opposite might be to most straight men. Not as interesting as inches added to a bicep, maybe, but I really want the sex to be part of his growth as a character. Despite the incredible pleasure he'll experience, there's a psychological elements here that I'm intent on getting across, perhaps with some occasional comedy.
Sex/sexual attraction/prowess is where a lot of domination will come in as well; I'm a sucker for tasteful cuckoldry, and even without the straight guys present, there's a certain achievement our insecure character will feel in being able to do things these women have never experienced with boyfriends or ex-lovers (is that not hot?)

I don't think the growth/masculinization will happen during the sexual encounters...at least not at first. The motivation will be present throughout, but I timing is important.
I'll elaborate on muscle growth focus in another reply, but like I want the story to be holistic, in a way. I haven't finished The Gardener, but in just the first 6-chapters alone, the story (which I've enjoyed so far) made it clear that growth alone does not a successful MG story make. Of course, if the story doesn't center on male muscle growth, it doesn't belong here; I'll keep the sites focus in mind. But if the story's character's and motivations take a backseat, it's not worth the trouble.

@Ogun: Thanks for the ideas!; for this, I'm shooting for realism, with the exception of some accelerated growth and pseudo-science
@MBT: I'll definitely going to take more note of the female personalities that pass through at my job, as fodder for interesting, real personas. The character's taste will be naive/idiosyncratic (at first), since he's never considered it before..

[Reeza]

Originally Posted by ydt81

There's a bit of a conundrum where his ultimate 'sexual orientation' is concerned. After all if he does begin to have sex with women, in essence he's at least bi now, no?

Actually, no. As I see it, sexual orientation is not determined by sexual activity. Many gay men have been married, had sex with their wives, had children, but were never really sexually attracted to women. Obviously they were capable of getting an erection with a woman, but that doesn't mean it was easy, and many would not identify themselves as bi.

In the same way, straight men have had sex with other men in prison, in the military, in boy scouts, or wherever, but that doesn't necessarily make them gay or bi. Sometimes, anything with a comfortable hole will suffice.

Also, there are many people, believe it or not, who have never had sexual relations with another person of either gender. Does that make them asexual? No. When they close their eyes and conjure up whatever makes their genitals swell, it is likely to be people of one gender or another, or both. That would be their orientation, in my opinion.

Also, I agree with what you said here, and would be very interested in the exploration of this psychological element:

"I'm willing to bet a kidney that straight sex is not as offensive to a gay man's sensibilities as the opposite is to a straight man. Uninteresting, maybe, but I want the sex to be part of his growth as a character. Despite the incredible pleasure he will experience, there's a psychological element here that I'm intent on getting across, even with some occasional comedy."

One of my favorite stories is the "Young Tony" series that has an abundance of straight sex, and lots of scenes where the protagonist steals girlfriends from straight guys and makes them watch. Tony is definitely bi. If you're not familiar with this series, find it in the archive and read it.

[ydt81]

Originally Posted by ydt81

There's a bit of a conundrum where his ultimate 'sexual orientation' is concerned. After all if he does begin to have sex with women, in essence he's at least bi now, no? But anyway, I think I'm with you; I know I compared the plot to a straight-->gay fantasy but this would not be the reverse. While part of the story's intent is to blur some lines, personally, I just wouldn't be interested in the character ending up with a woman...(in a traditional way).

Sorry, you're right; I really shouldn't have said that. I know better and fully recognize the importance of self-identification.


I didn't really intend for the character to explicitly self-identify once the action is underway. It was more matter of who he 'ends up with' or at least who he pursues throughout the story. I wanted to Showmore than tell; with the principle of self-identification in place, I'm not sure if that still makes sense. Anyway, if he does identify himself, the story would explore the tension a person would likely feel if his actions seemed, to him, incompatible with his identity.

To clarify: he will enjoy--reluctantly at first--his sex with women, achieving almost supernatural levels of pleasure. In this case, it will be less about a 'comfortable hole' sufficing (since, as he grows, he'll have other options) and still only partly about his muscle growth. There's the question of curiosity and new fantasies that result from new experience. Even if the way he describes himself aloud never changes, I want the situation to be more intimate. His endeavors will be more involved than simply getting prescription refills.

In my opinion, the most vital aspect of orientation is the emotional, spiritual, and/or romantic component of the physical attraction. Perhaps we agree on this. At this point, that's the only certain distinction I see between our hero's feelings for men and women. Even so, having some very close female friends, even this line will feel blurred since he his now able to enjoy a 'closer union' with them.

As I mentioned in my second post on the inspirations behind this story, lately I've wondered about the idea of sexual orientation as a construct (the first use of the term homosexuality appearing around 1890). It's possible our character can't picture himself with a woman, due to how history has played out. I'd like to touch on that too, though very briefly.



Whew, that was mouthful. Indeed showing might be better than telling.

[nnnrg]

My snap judgement said "Wait, is he saying that gay men aren't masculine?"
It's easy to go to all sorts of wrong conclusions there.

Need to define "masculine" here, which can become a trap too. But if you want to say "becomes more traditionally masculine: hairy, strong-boned, muscular, assertive and confident, with a stronger libido and a need to 'top' rather than 'bottom' " that's good because you've defined what you mean, and it's possible to be those things and still be gay.

However, even though self-identification is part of sexual orientation, the Kinsey study didn't assign the words "homosexual" or "heterosexual" to their participants. They just got a number based on what they reported having done. Which is the way to do science.

[Ogun]

Look , YDT, if you'll enjoy writing the story, write it. If you think it's worth sharing, post it. But don't let concerns about what people might say keep you from writing it. Don't write it merely to draw acclaim- write it because it calls to be born. Now it's time I started taking my own advice.

[ydt81]

Originally Posted by Ogun

Look , YDT, if you'll enjoy writing the story, write it. If you think it's worth sharing, post it. But don't let concerns about what people might say keep you from writing it. Don't write it merely to draw acclaim- write it because it calls to be born. Now it's time I started taking my own advice.

Thanks for your words Ogun. From what I remember, you're advice has a way of getting me off my ass and this will be no exception.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far, I look forward to getting more. I don't want things to get to contentious. I know I didn't express my idea fully in my first post, so I deserve some of the debates that come my way. I just didn't want to make the story too narrow right away, so I started with saying as little as possible.

I'm gay, and am well-acquainted with my share of gender studies and queer politics; I apologize if that hasn't seemed obvious so far, but I don't want to go too far astray or limit myself just to prove myself. Many of the answers will become perfectly clear when reading the actual story.

@nnnrg: Indeed defining masculininty can be a real trap, so I'll avoid it today. As I suggested earlier, no matter how complex the concept, it's better to show it than tell. I've never read a properly erotic story that deigned to get academic in the middle of the action.

I have not decided this particular gay man's place on the gender spectrum, thus my vagueness in his initial description. Insecurity and compulsion are common themes in many of my story ideas. Though, masculinity and being gay are compatible, the key impetus to our main character's actions is his inability to believe or grasp this on a given day, when he defides to give in. This is about exploring his (warped) beliefs, not my own and I'll try to make that clear without coming off too preachy.

Also, the phrase 'becoming more masculine' was truly meant to be secondary; as I haven't yet decided to start with a (feminist, intellectual) average joe or a (staunchly liberal) 'twink' ( suggestions?), the main changes would be in his musculature and other physical traits, but not immediately in his attitude. Sorry if my first statement contained any faulty assumptions. Gay or not, I imagine anyone can always be more masculine; On this forum,when you say a guy "becomes more muscular" the assumption is that he simply wasn't muscular before, not that he couldn't be.


And regarding the Kinsey study, thanks for the clarification. It puts terms to some of the qualms I had/have with self-identification as a rule.

First things first, I'd like to sketch up the opening paragraphs of the first chapter and post here; a chance for constructive criticism and to give a sharper idea of what I'm aiming for with the story. Thanks again for all feedback, so far.

[Jaypat]

I touched on this theme lightly in The Swimming Hole. I didn't delve too deeply into it because I didn't want it to become the focus of the story--more of a complication. ...and I was a little concerned about how it would be received around here.

I didn't get any offended or angry posts because of it, so I think the climate is probably alright for a story that explores the idea more thoroughly.

So get writing!

[Otaru_grower]

If there was a straight antagonist I think it might be interesting if the gay character had to have sex with women to get muscle due to a curse. But the curse works two ways and the straight antagonist, about halfway through the story, (who is homophobic) is having sex with men for the same reason (curse) and they have to work together to undo it.

Or it could be the gay character is cursed and so long as he has sex with women the straight antagonist loses muscle because of the fact that it is an ongoing muscle theft from someone you hate.

So the gay character hates to have sex with women but he wants to get even with the straight guy. And as time goes by he becomes very popular with ladies at the gym and he becomes more feeble and effeminate and then maybe at the end after the gay guy's curse is broken, the straight guy finds some way of doing the same thing to either a straight or gay guy that wronged him somehow, and he steals his muscle back...

[ydt81]

Originally Posted by Otaru_grower

Or it could be the gay character is cursed and so long as he has sex with women the straight antagonist loses muscle because of the fact that it is an ongoing muscle theft from someone you hate.

So the gay character hates to have sex with women but he wants to get even with the straight guy. And as time goes by he becomes very popular with ladies at the gym and he becomes more feeble and effeminate and then maybe at the end after the gay guy's curse is broken, the straight guy finds some way of doing the same thing to either a straight or gay guy that wronged him somehow, and he steals his muscle back...

Dammit Otaru! Just when I was getting comfortable you have to go and make me think. I'm not sure I'm looking to make the story THAT vengeful, but I don't want the story to be so serious it's hard to focus on the growth. For instance, him not liking sex with women could make things a lot simpler. And muscle theft is a nice way to keep things light while making the muscle growth element very clear. Still, I'm not sure I want that much bad blood between the two guys though. I was thinking less of a 'straight jock villain', and more the 'straight jock who's perceivedas a villain'. But maybe that's too murky.....

A lot of tradeoffs to consider here--Help! I'll keep writing, but I'd like to hear some other thoughts on this: theft or no theft? Suggestions/feedback on this would be appreciated.