Pull up woes

[mewletter]

Had tried many ways on doing my first successful pull up but still can't do one even though I'm reaching 27 and weighed only 135lbs. Still, I just able to do a few dips without any assistance and found some common problem with both dips and pull ups: My legs tend to swing front and back like a pendulum even when I'm just hanging there. Another problem is having weak grips. That I culd fix that. But what about swinging legs? Do I really need someone to hold them?

[arpeejay]

I never been able to do a pull up to save my soul (I'm a little better on chins) and I'm not much better on dips. I think sometimes our bodies just aren't configured for certain sorts of exercises; in which case, do something different that works the same area!

Regarding the swinging legs: The experts will know better than I but it could be that you need to work on your core (torso) strength. All kinds of useful things for that, including planks, side planks, V-ups, bird dogs, crunches, twists, hyperextensions, etc. It may be that you need to work on that area some more before you can really take advantage of dips and stuff.

All the best...

Richard

[inflated]

If you want to be able to do pull-ups start with negatives. Get a stool tall enough and lower yourself in a slow and deliberate movement as you can. Eventually doing pull-ups will be easy.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by arpeejay

I never been able to do a pull up to save my soul (I'm a little better on chins) and I'm not much better on dips. I think sometimes our bodies just aren't configured for certain sorts of exercises; in which case, do something different that works the same area!

Regarding the swinging legs: The experts will know better than I but it could be that you need to work on your core (torso) strength. All kinds of useful things for that, including planks, side planks, V-ups, bird dogs, crunches, twists, hyperextensions, etc. It may be that you need to work on that area some more before you can really take advantage of dips and stuff.

All the best...

Richard

Building core strength is key.
Persistance is also important.

In school (jr. high and high school) I couldn't do bar dips to save my life. After years of trying, and finally working out on an assisted dip machine, I've done up to 40 reps with bodyweight!

Hoo-YAH! {No, I'm not a skin head, but random displays of strength make me feel like one}

Mdlftr

{P.S. Closest I ever got to the military was playing with G.I. Joes when I was a kid. Not that there's anything wrong with that....

[howardbeatman]

Make sure that your upper legs are vertical, that your legs are completely still, and that your hands are balanced before starting to dip.

I agree with the previous poster that some of us (me included) just don't have the grip and shoulder strength to do pull-ups. Don't worry - that's what the pull-down machine was invented for (try it with a v-handle).

[Stoneman]

Okay, here's my beef with dips. I'm not sure how my wrists are supposed to go, but I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to go the way they are now, because after maybe one dip, the ball of my hand which is pressing down on the padded bar goes painfully numb. Any advice?

[inflated]

Originally Posted by drew

Some people are simply not built for pull-ups.

I can do as much as I weigh on a lat pull down or and various pull-down bars, but if I can get a single pull up out I'm lucky.

People without arms are not built for pull-ups anything else sounds like an excuse. Try negatives eventually you will be able to do some pull-ups.

[mewletter]

Well, I did a few partial dips quite nicely. Not much of swinging of legs, but having difficulty going all the way down before pushing back up. I'll try the negative pull-ups soon and see any improvements on that.

[AS2000]

Another issue is how much you weigh. If you've got a light body, it's less to pull up. The heavier you are, the more you're pulling (or dipping, for that matter.) They're bodyweight exercises, after all.

My gym had a machine that would help you on dips or pullups (basically, a bar under your feet that pushes you up, with varying amounts of weight). On pullups I didn't find it so helpful, because I don't like the grip on the bar. But on dips it was great, getting me from no dips when I started to a couple sets now. Pullups I still suck at, but I figure a combination of actual pull ups and lat pulldowns should help that out.

[Lucas88]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

Okay, here's my beef with dips. I'm not sure how my wrists are supposed to go, but I'm pretty sure they're not supposed to go the way they are now, because after maybe one dip, the ball of my hand which is pressing down on the padded bar goes painfully numb. Any advice?

First, your grip...your hands should be gripping the bar with your fingers on the outside and your thumbs on the inside (I'm sorry if this sounds obvious but I've seen some STRANGE grips on the bars before). The "V's" formed by your thumbs and your forefingers should be open toward the front and the bar across the palm of your hand and put most of your weight on the thick pad opposite your thumb and not at the center of your hand where some major nerves run.

Second, your forearms...your forearms should be vertical throughout the whole movement...you're basically bending at the elbow to lower your body and until you master the movement and are comfortable with your own body weight DO NOT lower yourself to where your upper arms are bent any less than a right angle, i.e., at the start of the movement, your arms are straight; at the end of the movement, your arms are bent with your forearms still vertical and your upper arms parallel to the floor. If you go any lower than that, you are stretching tendons and nerves running through your elbows too much before they get used to the movement.

This may or may not help completely depending on how strong your wrists are or how your nerves run through your wrists and elbows.

You also might try a different type of dip that's doesn't put your full bodyweight on your arms until you build up some strength there and stretch out tendons and nerves a little bit. Sit on the side of a bench (or even a bed if you have a firm mattress) and place the palms of your hands on the edge by either hip...your legs straight out in front of you...push up with your arms, lifting your hips off the bed and shifting your hips forward just enough that your butt clears the side of the bed...lower yourself until your arms are at a RIGHT ANGLE and NO LOWER...then push back up...your heels on the floor take some of the weight off your arms and you can build up some strength that way.

Just some ideas. Hope they help!

[Gene]

Originally Posted by drew

Some people are simply not built for pull-ups.

I can do as much as I weigh on a lat pull down or and various pull-down bars, but if I can get a single pull up out I'm lucky.

I can attest to that. I had good upper body development but I couldn't do a pull up to save my life even at my peak condition. I can do back rows, & lat pulldowns & dips, but not pull-ups. I have very narrow shoulders and the leaverage is all wrong.

[mewletter]

Originally Posted by Gene

I can attest to that. I had good upper body development but I couldn't do a pull up to save my life even at my peak condition. I can do back rows, & lat pulldowns & dips, but not pull-ups. I have very narrow shoulders and the leaverage is all wrong.

And yet I had seen skinny teenage guys doing pull-ups easily in my local gym... Anyway, another thing I notice is that my grip acting weird. Could be the nerves or not enough grip strength. Btw, any pics to show how to grip on the bar properly?

[Slevin]

Barring motor impairment from brain damage or physiological defects ("birth defects", accidents etc.,) -- everyone is capable of doing pull-ups. It's a matter of learning how do do them correctly and like any other exercise training your brain toward the correct muscle coordination to execute a pull-up.

Here is a description of some of the things mentioned in the topic (assisted pull ups, negatives).

http://www.healthandfitnessadvice.co...a-pull-up.html

[mewletter]

I had done 3 sets of 3 negatives recently. (on a 5 to 10-count) I had also noticed that my arms will 'locked' in dead hang position, unable to even bend my elbows. Oh well, maybe I will do a nice pull-up in a month's time.

[wolfotehmoon]

I totally just bought an Iron Gym... and it won't fit in my doorway because the ceiling is too close to the doorframe ;_; Ah well...

[Lucas88]

OK...I know this guy is selling his services but there it does apply to the topic:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iV1D5OZ2SpM...</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iV1D5OZ2SpM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Lucas88]

Originally Posted by Lucas88

OK...I know this guy is selling his services but there it does apply to the topic:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/iV1D5OZ2SpM...</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iV1D5OZ2SpM&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

No edit button...hmmmm...try this link:

YouTube - The World's Worst Chin-Ups: Gym Monkey

[Stoneman]

Thanks for the tips Lucas. Onwards and upwards I guess.

[mewletter]

Found another reason why my progress is so slow... The assisted pull-up machine itself. Read an article from a website and it hits me with a mental brick. From the article,

"

• No Balance. You don?t have to balance yourself on machines. You?ll lose strength when switching to Pull-ups & Chin-ups: they?re harder.
• Mental Factor. You?re using less strength on the Assisted Pull-up Machine because you know the machine is helping you on the way up.

"

Guess I had to scrapped the assisted pull-ups and do negatives only... As for resistance band Assited pull ups, might try it soon at an outdoor gym in a nearby stadium. Wish me luck!

[Stoneman]

Hey, here's another question about dips.

Which are you better off doing:

- a few full dips and then finishing out the set with negatives

or

- bench dips to build up shoulder strength?

[mewletter]

For dips, I started out bench dips before getting to do the full ones. Nowadays, I could easily do 3 sets of 10 full dips. (Took me years to get there though) Now, I had to do something with my pull ups...

[mewletter]

Had been switching to band assisted pull ups for a few weeks now, (using my old resistance band) and seeing some improvements. Currently able to do 5 in a set now. (Did 6 sets of 5 in my last workout) Won't be too long to do my first pull up I guess. Seems that this exercise is much better than machine assisted.

[Stoneman]

Congrats MewLetter! You're on your way to explosive lats. The kind that go: kaboom.

***

Bench dips seem too easy? Is that a reasonable thing to say? How can I make them harder?

[wolfotehmoon]

Man, I want to get in on this. D: I don't progress with pull ups unless I'm doing them several times daily, and I won't be able to do them until I mod my Iron Gym to fit my dorm room door. :C

[Lucas88]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

Hey, here's another question about dips.

Which are you better off doing:

- a few full dips and then finishing out the set with negatives

or

- bench dips to build up shoulder strength?

For me, doing as many full dips SLOWLY, both in the positive AND the negative movement and then saving the negatives to push the limit is what works best...anytime you can do the full movement, do it...use negatives to go that extra few reps.

[polomuscle]

Originally Posted by inflated

if you want to be able to do pull-ups start with negatives. Get a stool tall enough and lower yourself in a slow and deliberate movement as you can. Eventually doing pull-ups will be easy.

exactly. Start slow. Be patient.

[n4mscl]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

Bench dips seem too easy? Is that a reasonable thing to say? How can I make them harder?

Weighted bench dip (place a plate in your lap)
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...tBenchDip.html

Or regular (parallel) bar dips. Then add weight.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...tChestDip.html

[Stoneman]

That's the weird thing. Bench dips are too easy, and bar dips are too hard. :-/

Maybe my chest is too weak?

[Lucas88]

Originally Posted by n4mscl

Weighted bench dip (place a plate in your lap)
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...tBenchDip.html

Or regular (parallel) bar dips. Then add weight.
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...tChestDip.html

You beat me to it...those are great clips. Another option for the bench dip is holding a dumbbell between your legs.

[Lucas88]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

That's the weird thing. Bench dips are too easy, and bar dips are too hard. :-/

Maybe my chest is too weak?

If you look at the clips that n4mscl posted, you can see the weight shifts to the pecs for the bar dips and the tri's are more secondary (though they still get a workout). If you're not lifting weights but using bodyweight for exercises, try the bench dips for the tri's and push-ups (or bench press if you are doing weights) for the pecs...eventually, you'll balance out the strength and be able to do the dips.

[BIGJOEY]

ok guys here is a quick lesson on biomechanics of the body. your body works on angles and degrees of motion. usually 90 and 45 degrees of motion. when you lift you have to remember the joint and their alinement to each other in the range of motion. for example when you do a pullup your whole body is in a straight line . this means your shoulder, hips are in a straight line. so when yopu try to pull up its your arms and shoulders doing the work not your back. Your back will not engage until you elbose and your shoulders are a 45 degree to each other then will your back engage. So since your back is the second largest surface muscle groups in your body and your arms the 5th its your arms that will fail before your back does. to correct this and to get your back to do the work have a person push the small of your back foward till your hips are at a angle to your shoulders. then do your pull up. all this preson is suppose to do is keep your body on a angle to your shoulders during the movement.
you will be quite suprised because you will be able to do them.

any questions hollar at me.

[mewletter]

Great news. I finally able to do a perfect, normal pull up today! It seems the band assisted pull ups do work after all. Now to set new goals; Do 10 normal pull ups and a single planche push up. My, am I getting ambitious?