Bear vs BB

[mrmuscles28]

i posted this in another section and not too many replies got to it so i though i might try my question here.

I really want to start hitting the gym and gaining muscle, but i dont know whether i want to build up to be more of a bear(hairy, gut still apparent, lots of mass) or bodybuilder(more tone along with mass, and id have to lose weight first). So my question is what are the pros and cons of each build type? And how should i eat/train for each build?

[drew]

I personally think the whole bear thing is just an excuse to be fat and not feel bad about it. Sorry...

Anybody can get bigger, but it takes a whole-body fitness lifestyle of healthy living, healthy eating, and healthy exercise to develop lean mass and cut bodyfat.

Most people who aren't genetically gifted with having a naturally fit body type are too lazy to do this so. In the gay community, they have developed this idea of the "bear" aka want to be big, but too lazy to do what it takes to be fit.

[RPM]

Pretty much my thoughts, though I'm more sympathetic to people who can't take their fitness as far as they want due to other circumstances but still do what they can. Bear's a step in the right direction from doing nothing at all.

[Mad Dog]

Actually, bears became a group when gay culture became wrapped up in being hairless and skinny and ripped. It's great if that's what you want to be, but not everyone is gonna fit that and they shouldn't be made to feel unattractive or unlovable because of that.

Different strokes and all that.

[Digibacker]

And some people do actually find the bear aesthetic more pleasing. I'm one of them -- I much prefer (both in myself and others) thick and heavy rather than lean and defined.

However, that said, if your opinion is divided and you have a choice in the matter, pick the healthier option. I love being heavy physically, but wish it were healthier.

[ilimzn]

Originally Posted by drew

I personally think the whole bear thing is just an excuse to be fat and not feel bad about it. Sorry...
...
Most people who aren't genetically gifted with having a naturally fit body type are too lazy to do this so. In the gay community, they have developed this idea of the "bear" aka want to be big, but too lazy to do what it takes to be fit.

There are as many kinds of people as there are people. That being said, I have met ones who use the 'bear' archetype as an excuse, and in fact (although it probably varies from place to place), most that I met did use it as an excuse, to feel better about themselves, while deeply rooted insecurity about one's looks remain. People from these group would jump at the option to have a bodybuilder physique if it was given to them on a silver platter, no matter how much they proclaim they have found happiness in being bears.
IMHO, real bears are ones that WANT that look (even though, what the 'look' is seems to be prone to interpretation) and chose it over any other.
Even so, there are realities to be faced in real life. I find saying that "people who aren't genetically gifted with having a naturally fit body type are too lazy to do... what it takes to be fit" at the very least ironic if not insulting.
While I have met many guys that hide behind the bear archetype, I have met even more fit guys who are lazy about it precisely because they have the genes to pull it off while being lazy about it. You know the type, who could look good enough to make people weak in the knees with 1/4 of the work you do in the gym only to look like you actually DO work out. I am almost 6'4", weigh 272# at the moment and have visible abs, but to be so, it's a daily regimen of 7 meals plus 8th if I'm in the gym, and about 20# of protein powder a month alnoe, never mind real food - And I don't look anything special. I have met FAR more fit people who are lazy to do this and look 4x as good as me (and of course would gladly have the results if given on a silver platter) than bear types who look like bear types while doing twice as much as said fit people. What is more, the latter were far more realistic in assessing their own limits, while the excuses the former offer range from lame to ridiculous (eg. don't want to get 'too built' ?!). So, who is lazy here?

[ytrewq]

(eg. don't want to get 'too built' ?!)

Maybe not too built, but I definitely would understandsomeone not wanting to be too cut. I'd rather gawk at a slightly chubby bear than someone whose muscles look too defined to the point where they look like rocks piled together with nothing to smooth them together at least a little. The worst is when it looks like their veins are trying to escape their body.

[msldan]

Lets not forget that most bodybuilders only look super cut and defined for the competition season, many are beyond bearish in the off season, so is there really a difference between the two other than when bodybuilders are competing? I don't think so. just go for quality mass and then make up your mind once you've packed on the muscle.

[mrmuscles28]

I agree with a lot that has been said, and i think more of the question im looking for is "more mass or more tone?" cause i personally would go after someone wirh more mass rather than tone. I also would go after someone who had lots of mass and a small belly. If i wanted the mass look that i would go after then i would still have to lose a little weight than what im currently at. Im at 5' 9" and 220#s wih not much gym consistency so i don have too much strength

[Rarity]

Well, it all depends on what you want to "be"... From an unbiased stand point, it boils down to:

Bears have more mass due to more body fat. Extra body fat is never good. It's also easy to gain fat, hard to lose it. Your body doesn't need as much "upkeep" as a normal person or a person looking to build muscle, though.

Bodybuilders have slightly less mass, but all their hard work is shown off. It's also healthier, due to the healthy amount of body fat. It'd be very hard to maintain that type of physic, unless you crack down and eat healthy/work out regularly.


My opinion: Fat is hard to lose, muscle is hard to gain. Why would anyone who was gifted with the genetics to build muscle ever want to be a bear on purpose? That fat just covers up all your hard work, and it doesn't look all that great in a bathing suit. I don't see why a guy would work out, and not work on losing weight as well. That just seems so pointless all for the sake of looking stronger/bigger, when everyone can obviously tell the dude is just a bit on the chubby side. orz

[wolfotehmoon]

Originally Posted by Click_Flash

Well, it all depends on what you want to "be"... From an unbiased stand point, it boils down to:

Bears have more mass due to more body fat. Extra body fat is never good. It's also easy to gain fat, hard to lose it. Your body doesn't need as much "upkeep" as a normal person or a person looking to build muscle, though.

Bodybuilders have slightly less mass, but all their hard work is shown off. It's also healthier, due to the healthy amount of body fat. It'd be very hard to maintain that type of physic, unless you crack down and eat healthy/work out regularly.


My opinion: Fat is hard to lose, muscle is hard to gain. Why would anyone who was gifted with the genetics to build muscle ever want to be a bear on purpose? That fat just covers up all your hard work, and it doesn't look all that great in a bathing suit. I don't see why a guy would work out, and not work on losing weight as well. That just seems so pointless all for the sake of looking stronger/bigger, when everyone can obviously tell the dude is just a bit on the chubby side. orz

Actually, for a lot of people, it's HARD to gain weight, period. Muscle OR fat. Myself, I find it exceptionally hard to put on weight, and exceptionally easy to take it off.

I, personally, find a healthy layer of chub, up to and including a nice belly, to be more attractive than the ripped look. It's not necessarily healthier to be at a low body fat percentage either; especially when you're well conditioned, fat can help you get out of an illness quicker, and the extra mass helps with some lifts (and hefting huge poundages is tres sexy ;P). Health is always about diet + exercise; you don't always look the contrived, stereotypical part (and who wants to?). There are plenty of bears out there that are, frankly, much healthier than your given half-starved model. Not to mention that the extreme ripped look appears manufactured; to me, a big wide dude who's strong as all get-out is the best.

[Rarity]

Originally Posted by wolfotehmoon

Actually, for a lot of people, it's HARD to gain weight, period. Muscle OR fat. Myself, I find it exceptionally hard to put on weight, and exceptionally easy to take it off.

I, personally, find a healthy layer of chub, up to and including a nice belly, to be more attractive than the ripped look. It's not necessarily healthier to be at a low body fat percentage either; especially when you're well conditioned, fat can help you get out of an illness quicker, and the extra mass helps with some lifts (and hefting huge poundages is tres sexy ;P). Health is always about diet + exercise; you don't always look the contrived, stereotypical part (and who wants to?). There are plenty of bears out there that are, frankly, much healthier than your given half-starved model. Not to mention that the extreme ripped look appears manufactured; to me, a big wide dude who's strong as all get-out is the best.

This is a little warning... I have the ability to talk(type) too much and most people hate reading. Just skip to the bolded part.

I guess that's true. I lean more towards the cut look because I'm from California. And yes, the stereotypes are practically true. I'm also a nurse(I'll cut out all the lame lingo that I can), so that just makes me an anti-fatty. I see people who do nothing but get fat, and allow it to become such a problem that they turn themselves into ticking time bombs. Becoming fat makes one lethargic, and puts them at risk to develop heart/artery complications, among other things. If one allows themselves to slip in to the fatty-routine, they won't realize it until it's too late. Sure, the notorious Jerry lost a load of weight - but not everyone can have miracles like that happen without tremendous amounts of tedious work. Work that could have been avoided if the person stuck to being healthy regiment from the start.

Now, that's not to say "every fatty is unhealthy", because I've seen a 200 pound teenager (mostly fat, from the looks of it) who was probably the healthiest kid I've ever seen. Fat has it's everyday uses, such as proving heat to the body (better insulation, if you will) and cushioning it from falls or blows. Healthy people with extra bulk tend to have better immune systems, from what I've seen... But I'm pretty sure that's not a proven connection. But it's safe to say having some body fat is a necessity. The healthy amount for males hovers around 15%-20% depending on their age (women are x2 that amount, thanks to our lovely lady lumps). A person who has about 20% body fat won't look extremely defined, but if they work out, it'd be apparent that they are muscular. This type of person wouldn't be considered a real "bear" either, because the fat wouldn't even be that apparent sans a few jiggly bits to firm fat depending on the person's muscle tone. So the ideal body fat percentage is 15%-20%, but that doesn't mean someone with 30%-35% body fat is automatically unhealthy.

Most people hate fat for the WRONG reasons, because it's depicted as something gross and ugly. It's mostly thanks to American society. If you're a woman, you have to be skinny to the point where your ribs can be used as an xylophone. A man must be so ripped that his body could be used to wash clothes or grate cheese. It's almost ridiculous what these magazines depict, and the funny part is, it's mostly photo-shopped to look to make these people look so good. Going to either extreme is near-impossible, and if one DOES manages to do so, they will put their health at risk depending on their family's history of illnesses. Being super slim is over rated, being extremely ripped is also over rated. Be happy with what you are, and if you have the gift to put on some extra muscle or stay thin, then make sure you use that gift. People would KILL to have metabolisms like that. (I get to sweets every day as my older co-workers jealously stare. I think I should start feeling bad or eat them in a closet somewhere. . .)


The too long didn't read version of this is (which is now directed at the topic starter): follow the golden mean. (stay in the middle of the spectrum) Also, only do it to please yourself. If you wish you were stronger, then work out. If you're doing it because someone wants you to (and you don't), then don't even bother. It's your body, so your only concern is for you to be happy with it and keep it healthy.

Don't dedicate yourself to molding yourself into a bear or a bodybuilder. Those are two extremes, and both can be highly/slightly unhealthy in their own way. Instead, just work on staying healthy. If you can pack on muscle easily, go for it. If you pack on fat easily, I'd advise you to stick to a healthy regiment. Either way, think ahead and think "Will I regret what I do now later down the line?" or something to that effect. Building muscle is a serious commitment, and requires you to change many aspects of your normal life to be successful. I'm pretty sure my boyfriend would tell you the same. (He went from geek to jock, as some of the muscle TFers would put it.)

But please get yourself checked out before doing either. You may be healthy as you are, and putting on muscle or fat may just trigger something. Working out stresses the body, so it's possible to have a stroke or seizure from working out too hard. On the flip side, your family may have heart problems or high blood pressure and putting on fat is the equivalent of knocking on death's door.


Sorry for the poor grammar/spelling. I tend to type too fast when I type a lot. <_<;

[Bobert11284]

Actually, there is more to a musclebear than just a bear. A muscle bear is like a bodybuilder underneath a layer of fat. I'm guessing if your a big guy now, if you trained like a bodybuilder, you might come out as a muscle bear... then after some more cutting you would be like a bodybuilder. Do you have any before pictures?
If thats the case, you could try both looks out.
Unfortunately, I'm an ectomorph who would love to get that musclebear look, but my shoulders etc are too narrow right now, so first I have to work on the muscle part, then the chubby part haha.

[WhoDunIt]

That's kinda how I am, I started out fat and still am, but I've become increasingly more muscular underneath, but that just so happens to be how I've been losing weight though. I don't have any intrest in getting uber cut though.

[FuzzyKB]

Originally Posted by mrmuscles28

i posted this in another section and not too many replies got to it so i though i might try my question here.

I really want to start hitting the gym and gaining muscle, but i dont know whether i want to build up to be more of a bear(hairy, gut still apparent, lots of mass) or bodybuilder(more tone along with mass, and id have to lose weight first). So my question is what are the pros and cons of each build type? And how should i eat/train for each build?

[COLOR="PaleTurquoise"]
The problem with this whole "bear" thing is that it has evolved and been "hijacked". Many many years ago the main qualification for "Bear" was your fur quotient. All of a sudden those who were the "chubbies" came in and took it away. Then we started getting all kinds of other classifications to confuse the issue even more. Then we had "Otter" and all the rest.

Back in the 1990's I had gone to a Palm Springs Pool Gathering for a Bears group. I was at that time as now completely covered in fur, weighed about 178-180 and was confronted by a 325 pound pale hairless fellow who needed a larger bra than Sophia Loren. He went out of his way to take the time and come up to me to inform me that "I was not a Bear and I needed go gain weight. I was too skinny." In a moment of uncharacteristic "acid tongue" I informed my "corpulent friend" that the only reason that he was a "Bear" was that they did not have a group for "whales".

Being big or extremely muscular has it's good and bad points and there is another thread in which I have participated personally telling a few experiences from friends about extreme size.

What I would recommend for you my friend is to be the best YOU that YOU can be. A 29 inch waist is not a requirement of a good life, but a 60 inch waist is a marker for a very unhealthy person in the making. Go for the weights, do things right, be healthy, and enjoy yourself for the great and unique person you are. The really big bodybuilders measurements may be icing on the cake. Remember however that a cake is composed of more than icing and it is what is inside that makes it tasty! [/COLOR]

[wolfotehmoon]

Originally Posted by FuzzyKB

[COLOR=PaleTurquoise]
The problem with this whole "bear" thing is that it has evolved and been "hijacked". Many many years ago the main qualification for "Bear" was your fur quotient. All of a sudden those who were the "chubbies" came in and took it away. Then we started getting all kinds of other classifications to confuse the issue even more. Then we had "Otter" and all the rest.

Back in the 1990's I had gone to a Palm Springs Pool Gathering for a Bears group. I was at that time as now completely covered in fur, weighed about 178-180 and was confronted by a 325 pound pale hairless fellow who needed a larger bra than Sophia Loren. He went out of his way to take the time and come up to me to inform me that "I was not a Bear and I needed go gain weight. I was too skinny." In a moment of uncharacteristic "acid tongue" I informed my "corpulent friend" that the only reason that he was a "Bear" was that they did not have a group for "whales".

Being big or extremely muscular has it's good and bad points and there is another thread in which I have participated personally telling a few experiences from friends about extreme size.

What I would recommend for you my friend is to be the best YOU that YOU can be. A 29 inch waist is not a requirement of a good life, but a 60 inch waist is a marker for a very unhealthy person in the making. Go for the weights, do things right, be healthy, and enjoy yourself for the great and unique person you are. The really big bodybuilders measurements may be icing on the cake. Remember however that a cake is composed of more than icing and it is what is inside that makes it tasty! [/COLOR]

:S I was always under the impression that the "bear" subculture evolved as a response to the gay community's dominant "twink" subculture, i.e. everyone who's not a twink, you get to be a bear, congrats. Only after years of hierarchy-building and such did the busybodies start going, "Lol, you're not a bear, you're too skinny/too fat/not hairy enough/not old enough/etc." I mean, seriously dude; Tony Scrivens has, like, 3 chest hairs. You gonna tell me he doesn't exemplify bearhood?

[beeflover2001]

The problem with this whole "bear" thing is that it has evolved and been "hijacked". Many many years ago the main qualification for "Bear" was your fur quotient. All of a sudden those who were the "chubbies" came in and took it away.

The nerve of those fat asses, actually thinking they deserved some modicum of self-acceptance and an avenue to express their sexuality. Fatties ruin everything!

Back in the 1990's I had gone to a Palm Springs Pool Gathering for a Bears group. I was at that time as now completely covered in fur, weighed about 178-180 and was confronted by a 325 pound pale hairless fellow who needed a larger bra than Sophia Loren. He went out of his way to take the time and come up to me to inform me that "I was not a Bear and I needed go gain weight. I was too skinny." In a moment of uncharacteristic "acid tongue" I informed my "corpulent friend" that the only reason that he was a "Bear" was that they did not have a group for "whales".

What's the point of this story (and nice touch to make sure to mention that he needed a bra)? Did it make you feel superior to put that fatty in his place? It's a good thing you told him he was a "whale," because I'm sure he had no idea he was so gross, that his mere existence was offensive. I'm sure he'd never been mocked because of his weight or ignored at a bar or openly insulted (well, except for you). Fat people generally have no idea they're overweight. He may have been out of line, but you were a bitch.

I personally think the whole bear thing is just an excuse to be fat and not feel bad about it.

Lord knows fat people should never feel good about themselves.

It infuriates me that fat prejudice is the one prejudice that's still acceptable. It's also funny (in that pathetic way) that the same people who would ignore or insult a fat man or a hairy man at a bar or other event get so offended when they're treated the same way at a bear event.

I guess it just boils down to the dominant attitude in the gay community that fat men have no right to express their sexuality. Different strokes for different folks, people. Surprisingly, there is a large (no pun intended) subset of gay men out there who like their guys fat -- whether they're called "bear" or "chubby" or whatever.

[RPM]

Originally Posted by beeflover2001

The nerve of those fat asses, actually thinking they deserved some modicum of self-acceptance and an avenue to express their sexuality. Fatties ruin everything!

You said it!

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by RPM

You said it!

This whole string about "bears" "fatties" and so forth is a perfect example of the limitations with texting: sarcasm and "tone" are usually lost, so it becomes difficult, if not impossible to understand what is meant:

'Fat people are sexy'

'Fat people are not sexy'

Seems to me that it can be taken BOTH ways......[NOT that I'm expressing an opinion on the subject!]

[anpuZA]

Originally Posted by RPM

You said it!

bleh.


My opinion is... to each his own. Some bears I can take, some not and so for the lean muscled guys. Listen I'll be the first to admit that I like the feel of rock hard firm muscle without any padding, but at the same time I think fur is hot and if the guy has a little bit of bfat then so be it.

It's difficult to give you examples... okay maybe not so much. Alexei Lesukov for instance. He is big and muscled and supposedly lean(er), but he has become somewhat unattractive for me. Now, someone like James (who seems to be a member of our forum and one of my posts called Oh James is about him) is hot and tight. So to the guy from Helahot. Also take into account youtube posters like Adam400, Jammerjay (jamesdawson) and teens like Dalorenzo, then you have a section of muscle build which I consider quite hot.

There are ofcourse many more...

Now when it comes to bears, who to name... well, I find the classification difficult, because my idea of "bear" might not qualify as the standard. For instance I consider Zeb Atlas with his natural and oh so sexy fur as a bear and then of course there are numerous porn stars who qualify as such. In fact recently on MCocktube and Gayforit I saw a hot bear daddy with a thick bod and tool who would make me go on my knees far faster then Alexei Lesukov could force me. I realise that a percentage of bodyfat is needed to classify for some, but I consider it more a level of furriness than bulk.

In the end it's what you want to do and what you feel comfortable with. All I can say is, as a lover of muscle guys (more than being muscled), the idea of lying next to a guy who is strong (wether furry, smooth, lean or with a slight bulk) and who holds me and tells me I'm safe with him (and all the rest of the soppy $hiT) will get my tail wagging any old day.

: )

[beeflover2001]

This whole string about "bears" "fatties" and so forth is a perfect example of the limitations with texting: sarcasm and "tone" are usually lost, so it becomes difficult, if not impossible to understand what is meant:

'Fat people are sexy'

'Fat people are not sexy'

Seems to me that it can be taken BOTH ways......

To clear it up: Personally, I think fat people can be very sexy, and I just hate that it's OK for fat men to be ridiculed (and make no mistake, when they're accused of ruining the bear movement, they're being ridiculed and thought of as being less than human), but every other kind of prejudice is frowned upon.

The same gay men who wouldn't look twice at a guy with a belly are the same ones who accuse big men of "co-opting" the bear movement are the same ones who are insulted when they're ignored or not considered desirable by the very people they mock.

Personally, I just love men, whether it's a big-bellied guy with a gut I can straddle and hump, or a powerlifter type, or a muscle freak, or a lean muscled guy, or a twink who pops a surprisingly impressive biceps.

How can we expect to grow and be taken seriously as a minority deserving of all civil rights when we still marginalize and cut down our own? I would imagine the most difficult gay man to be would be the fat, effeminate, black man who has a disability.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by beeflover2001

How can we expect to grow and be taken seriously as a minority deserving of all civil rights when we still marginalize and cut down our own? I would imagine the most difficult gay man to be would be the fat, effeminate, black man who has a disability.

BL2001,

I think I understand what you are intending to say, and I was with you all the way up until the last sentence (copied above) --- "OUCH!"

By "most difficult" I think you mean to say, "I would imagine that the gay person who has the most number of "difficult", discriminatory, "categorizations" to deal with would be.....[what you said] "

I take this as, "An example of taking marginalization to an extreme is:..."

[beeflover2001]

Yes, Mdlftr, considering how mainstream gay society can marginalize every gay man who isn't "straight-acting," muscular, blond-haired & blue-eyed, the fat, effeminate black man with a disability is the one who faces the most number of prejudices.

[otkuman2003]

ill take the big hairy alpha muscle bear over the hairless bodybuilder anyday... so much more u can do with thee body hair!

[mutador]

You must first be concious about your body type, mesomorph, ectomorph, endomorph, etc.
I think you should go to the gym and train the way it makes you feel better and your body will come out according to your genetics as a bear or as a bodybuilder or as a lean athlete or whatever, but you'll look better than doing nothing. There is no use in forcing your body's natural genetics, you're going to the gym to perfect what you already have.
The idea is to feel healthy and strong, and I think that beauty and attitude will show in the outside someway, no matter your body type.
My advice is don't force yourself to be what you're not, be the best you you can be.
Is my concept clear?

[Stoneman]

You know, the way I always saw it, beariness isn't entirely a choice, mrmuscles. It's a genetic predisposition. If you can't grow a beard and you aren't fuzzy, then you can't be a bear. Isn't that obvious?