Gay Pride

[Stoneman]

Why are we proud?

What are we proud of?

I have a hard time this time of year. Someone help me out please?

[RPM]

Beats me.

What do you need help with?

[ytrewq]

I understand the intent of the phrase, but pride is absolutely the wrong word. No one achieves a sexual orientation, so what is there to be proud of? I think the intended message is that we simply should not be ashamed.

[Syphon]

I dunno. I'm no more proud to be gay than I am proud to have brown hair. It's just another part of me.

[Ogun]

There's more to it than that. We need to be proud of ourselves- of who we are, which goes a bit farther than not being ashamed. "I'm proud to be me!" We need to be proud of the ability to be ourselves, unafraid, and of how far we've come in gaining our rights and standing up for ourselves... while not forgetting how far we still have to go. That's what pride means.

[bigmusclez]

Being proud to be gay is, as i find, more about being able to accept who you are inside and out. I take myself for example:

I have always been proud of the talents i possess, as well as the heritage I come from. Being Half Puerto Rican and Half Italian American. I was pleased with myself for a long time. Until I realized I was gay, I was more proud to be myself than anything else. I found a new confidence in myself and the friends that have really stuck by me, in my long process of coming out.

Being proud of who you are, gives you more strength and confidence to evolve into who one truly is meant to be.

[Syphon]

Perhaps Gay Recognition Day would be more fitting?

I've got all the rights that straight people have here in Canada, so the whole fighting for equality portion of it all is kind of irrelevant now. The pride parade is just a big colourful celebration of diversity really, with lots of shirtless guys and butch chicks holding hands. Also; free condoms, yay.

[jpmtn]

We could use more shirtless guys and butch chicks at ours. The first 60 minutes were local politicians, local churches, and various gay professional organizations. It's great we're relatively accepted here, but where is the fun? Having just five floats of scantily/sexily clad people is just sad.

(I'm definitely glad about the pols, churches, et al., don't get me wrong.)

[arpeejay]

I'm proud of the fact that I met Stoneman this year! He's as smart and as sweet as he is hot (very!) What's not to be proud of?

xoxo

Richard

[helliot]

In this context I interpret "pride" as the opposite of "shame." It's a declaration that we won't hide or submit. It's that we are proud of who we are and have nothing to be ashamed of.

[arpeejay]

OK, here are some things to appreciate:

* Men. Flawed, imperfect, pains in the ass, and perfectly capable of being beautiful inside and out. For all our flaws (and this applies to women, too), we are innately lovable.

* We're different and our difference is both a challenge and an opportunity. A challenge because we have millenia of misunderstandings and prejudice to deal with, not to mention religious bigotry and (on occasion) outright persecution. An opportunity because there are no set scripts for how we are supposed to lead our lives; to do so in a way that is ethical, fulfilling, and joyful (and, YES, it can be done) requires introspection, self-knowledge, and an intentional commitment to yourself and those in your life.

* You stand on the shoulders of giants. All those people who refused to be wrecks, all those people who refused to pretend. All those people who joined the Mattachine Society and the Daughters of Bilitis; all those drag queens in front of the Stonewall Inn; all those dowdy, frumpy librarians with their Gay Rights Task Force (1971!) and their kissing booth. The distance we've come in my lifetime is astounding.

* We survive. We survived the Holocaust. We survived AIDS. We survived the beatings and the murders and the institutionalized oppression. We survived the witch hunts and the blackmail. We raise our voices in protest when our brothers and sisters in Malawi and Uganda and Iran are imprisoned or even executed. We don't go quietly and without a fight.

Maybe someday we won't be special but I'm apt to think that even in a totally enlightened world ours will still be a minority viewpoint, a bridge between straight men and straight women.

Hope this helps.

And I meant what I said.

Richard

[cutlerfan]

I agree with the others. I think gay pride is not being ashamed of being gay. It's just what we are. We don't deserve to be treated as second class citizens but we also don't warrant an award just for being gay. I think the whole Gay Pride movement was to get people to admit that they were gay but that that was okay instead of hiding their sexual orientation. That being said; I don't feel the need to shout from the rooftop that I'm gay. It's not a self-hatred thing but rather because I am a very private person. One commentary I read once said it seems odd when you meet someone and the first thing they say is "Hi I'm BOB...I'm Gay! If you were obese you wouldn't say "Hi I'm BOB ...I'm Fat!" You are saying that being gay or fat is the single most important aspect of your life, your beliefs, and your personality. I, myself, have a very convoluted mind and personality with multiple traits so I can't categorize myself with just one word; let alone saying I'm just gay. I also get annoyed when gay and bisexual men seem absolutely convinced that everyone is a "closet gay or bisexual". If we expect people to accept us as gay do we not also need to accept that there are straight people as well? If all sexual orientations are to be accepted then ours cannot be "the only" or "the best". If we want people to be allowed to decide who they are then all people must have the same freedom. No one group has the right to decide who should or shouldn't be gay or bisexual or straight. When it all comes down to it sexual orientation is a wide spectrum of experience and awareness. The reality is that human beings , by their very nature, are not just gay or straight...we are all human. Peace!

[msldan]

It appears there is a generational difference, those of us old enough to remember when being gay was a crime have an entirely different appreciation for what Gay Pride means than those who grew up and came into their sexuality more recently. So just calm down kiddies and let us old folks have our fun. Lil' fuckers.

[Slevin]

Everyone seems to be on target here.

The day you can walk into a grocery store holding your boyfriend/girlfriends hand without getting stares is the day we are truly equal. Even if you are lucky enough to live in a country where we are equal by law, remember that's only part of the process. It's much harder to become socially equal and seen as a good part of society. Moreover, just accepting things as status quo is a good way to begin a backslide. There are plenty of minorities throughout history who have been given rights only to have them taken away in the next breath.

Gay pride is as much for yourself as it is to say to others "I'm Gay and not ashamed of it" as it is to bring awareness to others about gay culture.

I live in New York now, and it's Gay pride month. The big march/festival is Saturday and I'll be attending!!

[jonnyj99]

The word pride is used in this case the opposite of shame, which is used to control and oppress LGBT Pride Throughout history.The is so important because it is our identities.Part Gay Pride Movement must respect the LGBT figures who could despite the persecutions and the openness to come out at different mobile experience.

[krims44]

I find it hard to associate gay pride with men wearing pink speedos. Or is that pretty much the same thing? I just think the gay rights movement and gay pride are two different ideologies these days.

[V.R.Goh]

There is a lot to be proud of if one is a member of the LGBT community. Until 1973, homosexuality was considered to be a mental illness. While it has been removed from the DSM-2 in '73, there are still some groups (e.g. NARTH) who disagree. Things are not like they were in the '60s, but the fight for equality is not over yet. I may be heterosexual, but a person should not be ashamed of who he/she is.

[Shahrazad2]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

Why are we proud?

What are we proud of?

I have a hard time this time of year. Someone help me out please?

Wikipedia has a surprising amount of information on the topic of Pride (the emotion) here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride

I particularly liked the part about how Aristotle proclaimed that Pride was the crown of the virtues, and that this concept of Pride has been translated as "Greatness of soul and magnanimity." I find this particularly interesting, given ancient Greece's revilement of hubris.

I think that pride can grant strength and support... if someone is proud of you, you feel greater and capable of greater things, and you're drawing strength from your family or community or friends. We can be proud of what we have achieved, who we have saved, whose dreams we've brought to reality, and of the strength to weather the eroding aspects of any of the forces arrayed against us (even if they're not even aware that they are in opposition, such as the prevalence of straight romance in movies and tv and song lyrics, and the relative lack of similar gay qualities). We can feel Pride also in that we have the strength and courage to do what we still have to do to improve our lives and ourselves and our world. We can have pride that being ourselves, as limited and human as we are, is a good thing, and something worthy of being proud.

So maybe we have a long way to go. Maybe we have a lot of rough spots, and we need to grow up as a community and a subculture and as a society. Maybe we've made mistakes, suffered tragedy, and hurt others. We can still be proud because of our self-knowledge and ability to improve, and proud of the fact that we have hope and determination and greater allies than before.

I think that virtues work together, too, so think about all the things our Pride impacts in a positive way, all the stuff we wouldn't be able to do without that glimmer of pride.

[hulkoutlvr]

Perhaps it is because of being strongly influenced by the upbringing of parents who didn't talk about sexuality at all, but I don't think a lot about my sexuality one way or another. If someone asks me if I'm gay, I reply "yes I am", simply because if I deny it when everybody is certain that I am (I am, after all, almost 38, not married with no children, fiance, or girlfriend, and I live alone with a cat), it just makes me look like a liar and a fool. However, if the topic is not brought up, I don't bring it up. It's not that I am ashamed; I just don't see it as an appropriate topic around young people or in mixed company. I probably would feel the same way were I straight.

I've actually never been to gay pride. Most of the reason for that is they simply don't have Pride events in the rural area in which I live. I would have to travel at least two hours to St. Louis or six hours to Chicago to participate in one. The minor reason for this is because I just haven't reached a point in my life where I can feel secure enough about my own body to be around so many beautiful and built men in one place. I'm working on that one, but being around guys like that makes me feel somewhat inadequate physically, and I certainly don't have the nerve to approach one yet about a hook up or a possible date. So I try to snag my dates the old fashioned way; fully clothed, with wit, charm, and intelligence. Sometimes I'm fortunate.

[Shahrazad2]

Originally Posted by hulkoutlvr

Perhaps it is because of being strongly influenced by the upbringing of parents who didn't talk about sexuality at all, but I don't think a lot about my sexuality one way or another. If someone asks me if I'm gay, I reply "yes I am", simply because if I deny it when everybody is certain that I am (I am, after all, almost 38, not married with no children, fiance, or girlfriend, and I live alone with a cat), it just makes me look like a liar and a fool. However, if the topic is not brought up, I don't bring it up. It's not that I am ashamed; I just don't see it as an appropriate topic around young people or in mixed company. I probably would feel the same way were I straight.

I've actually never been to gay pride. Most of the reason for that is they simply don't have Pride events in the rural area in which I live. I would have to travel at least two hours to St. Louis or six hours to Chicago to participate in one. The minor reason for this is because I just haven't reached a point in my life where I can feel secure enough about my own body to be around so many beautiful and built men in one place. I'm working on that one, but being around guys like that makes me feel somewhat inadequate physically, and I certainly don't have the nerve to approach one yet about a hook up or a possible date. So I try to snag my dates the old fashioned way; fully clothed, with wit, charm, and intelligence. Sometimes I'm fortunate.

See, I'm not sure being in people's faces about one's sexuality and being into Pride are quite the same things. I occasionally get asked if I'm gay, and answer Yes, and some people seem surprised, while others seem like they knew... and yet at gay bars I'll still get asked by guys if I'm just being dragged there by my hypothetical girlfriend (I don't drink much at all, and if there's no dancing, I feel very out of place in most bars). That said, Pride is more like "Ok, this is my time to be myself with no regrets or hiding, and to be surrounded by a whole bunch of other people who are the same way." And not all gay people are gorgeous... there are plenty of colorful, bizarre, average-looking, friendly, normal, weird, and goofy types out there, and more than a few of them wear shirts. I'm not sure you have anything to worry about.

[hulkoutlvr]

Well, having never actually been to a pride events, all I know about what goes on are the pictures I see in magazines and clips on the news. And they usually photograph the most photo-graph-able (if that's a word) people they see. I may have some pre-conceived notions that are not completely accurate. I guess because I consider myself just an average guy, I always think I might not fit in with the rest of the gay crowd.

I don't go to gay bars; the ones in my area are pretty sorry, and are filled with guys looking for a cocaine high or a quickie, whichever comes first. I'm looking for something and someone a little more quiet and in tune with my lifestyle, which is pretty quiet.

And please don't think I'm ashamed of being gay. I don't think about it that much; it's only a small part of who I am. I am a multi-layered guy who just happens to enjoy the sexual company of men, usually big, built musclemen. Other than my sexual eccentricities (as I prefer to call them), I'm pretty much an average guy. A lot of the gay community where I live are very handsome, very fit, very thin, and very "above" average, and also very exclusionary, which can be a bit intimidating at times.

Originally Posted by Shahrazad2

See, I'm not sure being in people's faces about one's sexuality and being into Pride are quite the same things. I occasionally get asked if I'm gay, and answer Yes, and some people seem surprised, while others seem like they knew... and yet at gay bars I'll still get asked by guys if I'm just being dragged there by my hypothetical girlfriend (I don't drink much at all, and if there's no dancing, I feel very out of place in most bars). That said, Pride is more like "Ok, this is my time to be myself with no regrets or hiding, and to be surrounded by a whole bunch of other people who are the same way." And not all gay people are gorgeous... there are plenty of colorful, bizarre, average-looking, friendly, normal, weird, and goofy types out there, and more than a few of them wear shirts. I'm not sure you have anything to worry about.

[Yachirobi]

I'm still closeted and I wish I could go to the REAL gay pride events and places. Maybe I can't say that I am proud to be gay but I'm really proud of those people who are brave enough to say who they are and say who they love openly. I'm proud of those people, gay and straight and in between, who are fighting for my right to live as I wish to live, not as someone thinks I should live.

[raven79]

Just like with the heterosexual community, we are not all the same. Not all of us will attend those pride events because we don't necessarily see the need for them. I understand the responsibility, but in the end, a lot of those events end up being about the sex and not the rights.

They aren't seen the same way as the Tea Party or Occupy Wall Street rallies. Instead of having a message for equality, they end up just being ways to have sex with other guys or get in trouble with the law. (Depending on where they are held.)

For the flamboyant of us, these events are great; however, for the more masculine, they don't seem to matter all that much. I guess it depends on how you view the world. (I was raised in a house of fairly liberal people that gave me the freedom to think for myself. I suppose these events would mean more for guys that didn't have that kind of freedom maybe.)

My political views have actually changed over the last ten years from being a liberal to a moderate/independent. I suppose this is unusual because most of the gay community is liberal right? I have never told anyone in my family that I am a homosexual because it isn't any of their business. They really don't care anyway because they have never talked about anything sexual to me in my entire life.

Anyway, I will stop and this is just my take on the pride events. In my view, we need to blend in to the world and not separate ourselves from it. I see things from the outside I guess and the majority of the country think that these events are about sex and nothing else.

[ActionBastard]

A big gay pride event in a major city is something I think everyone, or at least everyone gay should experience at least one.


I'm pretty masculine, and homosexuality is not a big part of my identity, but I was still amazed at how great of an experience I had the first time I went to pride events.

It's nice not to feel like a minority somewhere other than the local gay bar. To have clear irrefutable proof that, "It's not just me."

Like anything else it's really what you make of it. Yes, for some it's just a big orgy but if you're not into that then you know to avoid the host hotels, and the clubs, and the parks at dusk. There's always other stuff to do, if you want to do it.

[Kijin]

I've come to accept what I am but I'll never be okay with it. Strangely enough I'm on the side of heterosexuals when they say there's something wrong with us. I mean, you hardly ever heard of gay people a hundred years ago and they certainly didn't have festivals or locations dedicated to them. I think a psychological factor while I was growing up, and while most of you were growing up too, triggered my warped sense of sexual attraction (which I think I know what it was) and was influenced by the whole "it's not something you can change" propaganda that's shown on TV and preached to little children in effort to allow then to accept it.

I have a hard time knowing that I can't naturally conceive a baby with another woman without lying to her and hiding myself and knowing that I'm being repressed by the general community. I applaud those who have opened their mind up about us but I wish I didn't grow up in the transition from hating it to accepting it. It was hard for the last however many years and I'm sure it will be for years to come. If it were 100 years from now it'd be so much different, but unfortunately I wasn't destined to live in a world like that.

Being like this makes me feel purposeless. If I can't continue my line of family, why continue? I'm not suicidal or anything though, definitely not that depressed about it, but I'm really psychological about it. Sure, I'll find someone I'd want to be with sooner or later, but I don't think I'll ever be truly happy about it.

I am ashamed of myself. I have no pride nor am I proud.

[grubby41]

Kijin, the way you feel is the way you feel, and no one has any right to tell you otherwise. But let me just say that homosexuality has been around since the beginning. I used to teach history, and social and political history was my principal discipline. I am very conservative politically, and I am certainly not attuned to the politics of social activism so prevalent today. Having said that, I can tell you that from David and Jonathan, to Alexander the Great, to Julius Caesar, to Leonardo DaVinci and Michaelangelo, to King James the First, to Oscar Wilde, E. M. Forster, and Robert E. Howard, just to name a very, very few, homosexuals have not only existed, but they have made an impact on human civilisation so great, that one often wonders if homosexual men (I cannot comment on women) are not genetically predisposed towards genius. I, for one, am not at all ashamed of my homosexuality. I am a very private person, and only my closest friends know what my sexual preferences are, since sex, like politics and religion, is a private matter. But I am the way God made me, or allowed me to be made. I know that God loves me and accepts me, as He loves and accepts all human beings. But, like all human beings, it is what I do with my gifts and weaknesses that will judge who I am, and not how I was made or what my sexual preferences are. It is all about what we do, not what we are. Be honest, be kind, do good, and be at peace with yourself. It certainly works for me.

[hulkoutlvr]

I wish I could meet you so I could say something that would help. Believe me I understand right where you are, because I've been there for myself. I'll start with this. Like you, I cannot continue my "family line". Not because I am gay, but because I have a debilitating, incrurable disease that is from birth and that has a high rate of inheritance. Therefore, I made the conscious decision years ago that I would never take a chance on another child suffering the way that I have. That being said, over the years I have felt your sadness and regret. Yet, not being able to reproduce does not determine who you are any more than being straight does. And it doesn't mean you can't change the world or make it better. Many people never left children behind and yet left an indellible mark on the world. People like Helen Keller, Anne Frank, and Annie Sullivan come to my mind. No children, yet I am a different person because of their contributions to the human race.

Secondly, you are right, and I understand what you mean when you say there is something a little off about being gay. I mean, we ARE a little bit different from most people. And I certainly would never have chosen this for myself. I mean, who would choose to live a life where you spent every day being hated and ridiculed, or at least pitied by people who will never see us as being the same? Yet this is who I am, whether I like it or not. Imagine my parents as woodworkers. They weren't given a perfect piece of wood when I was born; it had a flaw, a flaw which could never be cut or sanded away. Does that mean that the piece of wood couldn't be made into a wonderful violin that could sing and make music? No. It simply means that violin, because of its flaw, would always be different from every other violin. But that was true anyway, because of my disease. I could never be like other children, for many reasons, so they accepted that early. When they learned I was gay, it was just one more thing for them to accept, so they were probably a little more flexible than most parents. After nearly burying me a dozen different times, it didn't seem like an earth shattering tragedy. Part of coming to terms with who you are is realizing that yes, you are different. As a gay man, I am different from about 80 percent of the men out there. I always will be. But I can promise you (because I did it for a long time), if you spend all of your time mourning who you will never get to be, you will never be free to enjoy and embrace all of the other wonderful things that you are. Being gay is only a small part of who you are. Like you, I am not "proud" of who I am. I don't think being gay is necessarily something to be "proud" of. Neither is being straight. It simply is what it is.

Oh and if you're worried about sexual eccentricities, don't be. Yes, you didn't hear a lot about gays 100 years ago. But again, you didn't hear a lot about straight sex. That's part of the much more open culture we live in. People of all orientations will tell you their most private issues at the drop of a hat these days, which I think is very often undignified and dirty. But in my dealings with straight people (and I have been invited into "three ways" by curious straight guys and straight women who have always wanted to see their husbands with another man, and you name it), I have found that they have just as many (if not more) sexual and personal issues as we have. In that arena, my friend, you are EXACTLY the same as everybody else. Everyone has issues and hang ups, gay or straight. I'm still not okay with all of mine. And yes, I'm still nto completely okay with being gay. That's a process that often takes a lifetime. But I am okay with being most of the other things that I am, which helps to make up for it.

You sound like a nice guy. I wish more of the guys in my area were like you.

Originally Posted by Kijin

I've come to accept what I am but I'll never be okay with it. Strangely enough I'm on the side of heterosexuals when they say there's something wrong with us. I mean, you hardly ever heard of gay people a hundred years ago and they certainly didn't have festivals or locations dedicated to them. I think a psychological factor while I was growing up, and while most of you were growing up too, triggered my warped sense of sexual attraction (which I think I know what it was) and was influenced by the whole "it's not something you can change" propaganda that's shown on TV and preached to little children in effort to allow then to accept it.

I have a hard time knowing that I can't naturally conceive a baby with another woman without lying to her and hiding myself and knowing that I'm being repressed by the general community. I applaud those who have opened their mind up about us but I wish I didn't grow up in the transition from hating it to accepting it. It was hard for the last however many years and I'm sure it will be for years to come. If it were 100 years from now it'd be so much different, but unfortunately I wasn't destined to live in a world like that.

Being like this makes me feel purposeless. If I can't continue my line of family, why continue? I'm not suicidal or anything though, definitely not that depressed about it, but I'm really psychological about it. Sure, I'll find someone I'd want to be with sooner or later, but I don't think I'll ever be truly happy about it.

I am ashamed of myself. I have no pride nor am I proud.

[hulkoutlvr]

Thanks Grubby. That reply wasn't directed toward me, but I needed it today. Thanks again.

Originally Posted by grubby41

Kijin, the way you feel is the way you feel, and no one has any right to tell you otherwise. But let me just say that homosexuality has been around since the beginning. I used to teach history, and social and political history was my principal discipline. I am very conservative politically, and I am certainly not attuned to the politics of social activism so prevalent today. Having said that, I can tell you that from David and Jonathan, to Alexander the Great, to Julius Caesar, to Leonardo DaVinci and Michaelangelo, to King James the First, to Oscar Wilde, E. M. Forster, and Robert E. Howard, just to name a very, very few, homosexuals have not only existed, but they have made an impact on human civilisation so great, that one often wonders if homosexual men (I cannot comment on women) are not genetically predisposed towards genius. I, for one, am not at all ashamed of my homosexuality. I am a very private person, and only my closest friends know what my sexual preferences are, since sex, like politics and religion, is a private matter. But I am the way God made me, or allowed me to be made. I know that God loves me and accepts me, as He loves and accepts all human beings. But, like all human beings, it is what I do with my gifts and weaknesses that will judge who I am, and not how I was made or what my sexual preferences are. It is all about what we do, not what we are. Be honest, be kind, do good, and be at peace with yourself. It certainly works for me.

[Mdlftr]

I am referring to myself by this ridiculous term to make a point.

When I read the string, particularly this part:

[....I have a hard time knowing that I can't naturally conceive a baby with another woman without lying to her and hiding myself and knowing that I'm being repressed by the general community. I applaud those who have opened their mind up about us but I wish I didn't grow up in the transition from hating it to accepting it. It was hard for the last however many years and I'm sure it will be for years to come. If it were 100 years from now it'd be so much different, but unfortunately I wasn't destined to live in a world like that.

Being like this makes me feel purposeless. If I can't continue my line of family, why continue? I'm not suicidal or anything though, definitely not that depressed about it, but I'm really psychological about it. Sure, I'll find someone I'd want to be with sooner or later, but I don't think I'll ever be truly happy about it.

I am ashamed of myself. I have no pride nor am I proud.
Kijin ]

I want to tell you: having biological children is not the be-all and end-all of existence. I have children, and love them unconditionally, and I try to be a good male role model for them. I don't think love of children is limited to people who are biologically capable of reproducing. That would be like saying that no one over age 55 could love children.

In this world, adoption is very common. I know several gay and lesbian families where the children have two Moms or two Dads. My reaction to that is, "Good for them. These are children that are being loved and nutured to grow up as upstanding, thoughtful, loving, contributing members of society."

People find their purpose in life through all sorts of ways.
Some are called to ministry. Some are called to marriage, with or without children. Some are single, but are called to other support -- a solitary scientific researcher who discovers a cure for a disease; a solitary security guard or first responder who averts a tragedy; a solitary individual who inspires others through their own example.

I know that sometimes circumstances get us all down. I find that believing that things will get better, that I can personally do things to make things better by my own actions is a tremendous mood elevator. Each of us walk around, gay, straight, asexual, whatever, with our own insecurities and miseries and fears. Nevertheless, seeing someone else smile at us, or give us a "hello" or a compliment can really make a difference to us and to them.


You are not alone.

Mdlftr

[hulkoutlvr]

you make wise and intelligent points. I always look forward to reading what you have to say. Thank you.

[HulkinGrowth]

I personally have mixed feelings about this topic. On the one hand, of course gays are due equal rights as any other person is. The conservatives thought society was going to end 110 years ago by giving women the right to vote and have equal rights. They also thought society was going to end 50 years ago when african-americans got equal rights. Well society survived just fine. I don't see the gay rights issue as being any different from the social issues that came before, it just happens to be the current issue. As for gay marriage, I think the straights have already done an excellent job making a mockery of that institution long before any state granted gay marriage rights.

Now on the other hand, the gay pride festivals make me sick. I've been to Chicago Pride twice, both times years ago, and once was actually more than enough. As I see it, most of Pride is a freak show, showing off the worst the gay community has to offer and living up to all the negative stereotypes that the straights have about us. The Pride festivals are exactly what we should not be showing the public if we want to yell for equal rights.

As for individuals, I completely fail to see the need to advertise yourself. Don't get me wrong, not advertising yourself is not the same as hiding yourself, but a person shouldn't be able to tell that you're gay just by looking at you or hearing you speak. I am a member of a local gay social organization, and honestly, I don't know how some of those people function in the real world and have anyone take them seriously. I've met several guys in that group who look like normal ordinary guys, but as soon as they open their mouth, I either have to stifle laughing at them, or stifle myself from blurting out "do you actually talk like that?!"

I figure its no one's business what goes on behind my closed door, and that applies regardless as to your orientation, but I don't have a problem with inviting along a date if I'm going to a "and guest" event. But that date and I also aren't fawning all over each other while there either. If we want to yell for equal rights, we should first be showing that we are equals, not some fringe element that looks like clowns in a circus.

[ActionBastard]

Jesus Christ on a bike!

Some of us are awfully judgemental for a bunch of homosexuals on a fetish website! The gaul and audacity!

I imagine all the self-hatred in here is more than enough to explain to anyone who really wanted to know why gay pride exists, and is so very popular.

It irks me to no end how the very people who should know better, who cry blood murder not to be stereotyped, judged and hated, are so eager to stereotype, judge, and hate those who are slightly more vulnerable.

Boy do we have a long way to go.

[hulkoutlvr]

but hopefully, some, if not most of us are working on it.

But, on the original subject of "Gay Pride" (the event, not the actual notion of either pride or shame), I have always been somewhat hurt that my gay friends criticize and even make fun of my decision to "opt out" of going. It's not that I have anything against others going, I just never have seen the personal need to go myself. It's simply that I have other interests that I prefer to spend my money on should I decide to travel. There is a pride festival in St. Louis in June, but I am saving my money for a three-day Titanic Centennial event the weekend of April 14th and 15th. That's where my interests lie; it's that simple. After all, I have all year long to be gay, but the 100th anniversary of the historical event I find most interesting only comes once.

As for the notion of "self hatred", I can't speak to everyone's experience, only my own. I'll just say this. A lot of my feelings of inferiority stemming from my sexuality are no doubt a result of my upbringing in "the Bible belt". Even though I should know better at 38 years old, 25 years of being told what was expected of "real men", and that "fags" and "queers" were weird, not normal, and deserving of every bashing they get took its toll. I am attempting to move past it, but it's a process. But the gay community, with its self-centeredness, focus on physical beauty, and celebration of the desire for immediate gratification, doesn't help. For example, I get more teasing from the gay community for being a church-going Christian than I do from the church community for being gay. Go figure.

[ActionBastard]

To be clear, I'm not attacking anyone who has difficulty with thier sexuality. There are a lot of reasons why a person would struggle, and coming to terms with oneself is a process. Like any other process, some will find it less challenging than others.

Additionally, it is only logical that people who are admittedly at odds with thier own seuxality are uncomfortable with something like a pride event.

My problem is those of us who claim to be perfectly well adjusted and poo poo pride events because there will be **clutches pearls** Sex! Or heaven forbid a man be seen in a women's clothing item. What sort of lunatic does that. They're sick I tell you. Sick, sick, sick.

Then there is this laughable belief that sexual equality can be achieved through sexual repression. Because history shows us that women got liberated by being good chaste housewives. Oh wait...

[raven79]

Kijin, I fear for your well-being. To feel so negatively about yourself is quite alarming to me and it tells me that you have been influenced by someone in your life. The first thing each of us needs to do is to think for ourselves and not have someone else tell us that we are not worthy of existence. (The gay community I mean! )

HulkinGrowth, I seem to be on your wavelength apparently. I have absolutely no desire to ever go to the 'pride' events because they do expose a side of our community that sheds a more negative and unfortunately very public light on us.

ActionBastard, I get part of what you are saying about the 'pride' events, but not all of it. Your sarcastic tone speaks volumes to me and I will leave it there. Sheesh!

Hulkoutlvr, I can sympathise with you totally. I myself am from 'the bible belt' and it takes some real restraint to not lay into people for talking down to the gay community, but I know that is to be expected.

Mdlftr, you are always a voice of sanity inside the most sensitive list of topics. Thank you so much!

[Gene]

HulkinGrowth: I agree with your sentiments about gay pride parades. I've attended many of the biggest around the world and they are full of lots of wonderful people secure in their sexuality and willing to be seen. But you're right, the events end up being freak shows because the media zeros in on the "Priscilla Queen of the Desert" drag master types, who true to their nature give it all they've got for the cameras. Fostering a stereotype not healthy for the majority.

I like straight men too but I really wouldn't want to be associated with a crowd of drunken gun whackos making up 5% of a parade of family men.

The drag queen image is not to be equated with being gay. We're so much more than that.

So, what are we proud of? We're proud of being able to say we know that it is OK to intimately love people of the same gender.

[hulkoutlvr]

I like the way you think Gene!

Originally Posted by Gene

HulkinGrowth: I agree with your sentiments about gay pride parades. I've attended many of the biggest around the world and they are full of lots of wonderful people secure in their sexuality and willing to be seen. But you're right, the events end up being freak shows because the media zeros in on the "Priscilla Queen of the Desert" drag master types, who true to their nature give it all they've got for the cameras. Fostering a stereotype not healthy for the majority.

I like straight men too but I really wouldn't want to be associated with a crowd of drunken gun whackos making up 5% of a parade of family men.

The drag queen image is not to be equated with being gay. We're so much more than that.

So, what are we proud of? We're proud of being able to say we know that it is OK to intimately love people of the same gender.