Does Muscle Only Love Muscle?

[msllover]

Ever notice that mucular guys seem to ONLY like other muscular masculine guys?

I've met lots of gay guys that are buff, trouble is they're looking for either twinks or buff guys.

I'm wondering if that is the general feeling.

Granted: if I worked really hard on my body, I'd want to be w/ another guy that worked really hard on his body.

But I like muscle anyways so I'm kinda biased.

Are there buff guys that like "average" guys?

*sighs*

[barraganap]

Being a guy who's worked hard to gain muscle I can say that I worked on gaining muscle to attract muscle. So it does kind of go without saying that muscular gay guys do tend to be attracted to other muscular guys or twinks.

On a side note, I get kind of ticked-off when "average" guys try to hit me up and then they get all bent out of shape when I let them know that I'm not attracted to them. It's hypocritical of them to say that they like muscle but it's not okay for me to like muscle...

[gmcra19]

Ive noticed that too and when someone of a "average" build approaches someone with muscle, the response I usually get is a laugh or just completely ignored. I have been changing and will continue to do so but not to get what I want, but rather to make sure that there are some NICE guys in the muscle community that are willing to try and take a step out of their comfort zone and take a chance on something that will last for a long time.

[Brahma]

Not all beefcakes love beefcakes. I know several who love the not muscular ones as well as the muscular ones.

[redwolf64]

People have many different tastes. Some muscled guys get into other muscle, some get into bears, some into twinks. I even hear some are straight.

I think muscle looking for muscle is less common with guys that are a bit older and are more mature about what they want and need from a relationship and more comfortable with who they are. I've run into a few that had to "come out" as a lover of bears, chubbies, daddies or what have you.

[msllover]

Red that's extremely interesting. Barr, I understand, it makes sense to me, but it kinda sucks. I don't like lifting, its like eating something that tastes nasty. But I should do a better job taking care of my body so I'm at least fit and trim.

I usually find that about 85% of muscle guys usually want either someone that's beefy or slim but gymnist quality. Also, about 65% state on their profiles they want a "masculine" guy. I'm not the most masculine thing on the earth, but I certainly don't start spontaneous fires from flaming. I'm somewhere in the middle.

Sorry. I'm just a bit frusterated. Some lessons are harder to learn than others.

.......

[v4m2003]

honestly dude just put on like 10-20 pounds of muscle and you will get like 90% of muscle guys who are as attractive as you in terms of face IMHO. there are some guys who are only into other huge muscle and other guys that want twinks, chubs, whatever, but i think most muscle guys just want their partner to be in reasonably good shape

[gmcra19]

But then "reasonably good shape" could mean many things. It all depends on people involved, attreaction, and what the other is looking for in a "fit body" .

[nzbodybuilder]

Yes, I'm muscled and I love my muscle. Does that count? LOL. Though I cannot speak for other bodybuilders, I can tell you that even though I find other big bodybuilders attractive, for me finding a boyfriend was more than just looks. And I'm lucky enough to have found the most fantastic guy in the world. Granted, we met in a muscle chat room, but he saw me to be more than just a piece of meat, which sadly most muscle chasers seem to think bodybuilders are.
He works out at the gym 3 times a week, but only to keep fit. I tend to get jelous sometimes when all the huge bodybuilders go UP TO him to chat. That's because he talks to them, complements their muscle of course, but always has a good laugh with them.

I read on some other threads that people feel they will never meet up with muscle guys. I can't say that what you guys have been doing in life to find your perfect match is right or wrong, but if you were to get a muscled/bodybuilder boyfriend, then what? What if he decides to stop training? Would you then dump him and look for another muscle guy?

[hulkoutlvr]

I would probably get kind of bent out of shape if I had to work up my courage to talk to someone and them have them say to my face that I wasn't attractive.

We all have our things that put "a tickle in our pickle" for one reason or another and for most of us, yes it is muscle. We wouldn't be here otherwise. But seriously, does anyone else think that it's a bit harsh to lump people into a conveniently labled group, i.e. chubs, twinks, bears, etc. So far in this thread I have yet to hear anyone talk about what kind of inner qualities turn them on.

[Lucas88]

Originally Posted by hulkoutlvr

I would probably get kind of bent out of shape if I had to work up my courage to talk to someone and them have them say to my face that I wasn't attractive.

We all have our things that put "a tickle in our pickle" for one reason or another and for most of us, yes it is muscle. We wouldn't be here otherwise. But seriously, does anyone else think that it's a bit harsh to lump people into a conveniently labled group, i.e. chubs, twinks, bears, etc. So far in this thread I have yet to hear anyone talk about what kind of inner qualities turn them on.

First, I've got to play devil's advocate here. There are plenty of people out there who are not into musclemen (maybe not on this board but they're out there) and don't find big guys attractive in the least. I've had people assume on sight that I have to be as dumb as a brick because I'm as big as a house. When I open my mouth and speak in complete sentences and something more than grunts, they don't know how to act. Some people are just intimidated by my size and no matter how soft-spoken I am or how friendly, they can't get over the fact that I'm almost twice their size. Some are just flat out turned off by the muscle and AREN'T shy about saying so. I've had other guys assume that I'm built the way I am for the singular purpose of "being worshipped"...NOT!!! I'm built the way I am because I like the life style, the stress release and the way it makes ME feel physically.

My real point: chubs, twinks, bears, etc. aren't the only ones "conveniently labled." Unfortunately, it's human nature to group people into categories. It's not "right" whatever that is...it restricts our ability to step across boundaries...it can suck when you're excluded from a "group" of which you want to be a part...it can suck when you ARE labeled or grouped and people don't see there is a lot more to you beyond that label. The fact of life is that it happens a lot more than we want it to and it happens to all of us, period. What's important is what you think of yourself and how you show it to the rest of the world. THAT is what will attract the RIGHT people to you...the ones with whom you can actually build a relationship regardless of bodytype.

Second, what turns me on is guys who carry themselves with some self-confidence and sense of who they are regardless of their build (and you don't have to be a bodybuilder but taking care of yourself physically is part of what builds those qualities)...I like UP people that I'm going to feel good being around. I've dated guys of just about EACH "group" and wide age ranges. The ones where relationships developed were the ones where we had something in common, NOT where they looked at me as a 'muscleman' they hooked. Some of the guys were funny, some were serious, some were very social, some were homebodies...it was never just one thing about them that attracted me, it was how comfortable they were in their own skin.

If someone laughs at you or ignores you when you approach them, a couple of things to consider (there may be more): 1) your approach...are you another one of those guys coming up to them out of the blue with expectation written all over their face or are you casually saying hello at the water fountain and just being friendly, NOT WANTING something from them? One will get a different reaction than the other a lot of the time. 2) Their response...if you're just being casual and friendly and you get "the laugh" or ignored, it's obvious the body may have grown up but the mind is still in junior high school. Regardless of your approach, an adult won't have to make you feel small to let you know they're not interested in more than a casual hello.

End of the novel.

[hulkoutlvr]

Lucas,

Beautifully spoken, as usual. The great thing about this board is that there is room for open, healthy debate and no one ever seems to get offended or nasty.

With your permission, I'll play devil's advocate for the "average" guy. I live in a pretty rural area. There are bodybuilders here, but most of them are straight, and are not willing to be buddies with a guy they are always afraid is checking them out. The bodybuilders that are gay mostly want to be gay with each other, and to even be their "friend" you have to be up to their standards, and that, at the very least, requires some type of physical prowess or attributes. I once had a straight bodybuilder friend. We were the oddest pair you've ever seen, but we had a lot in common that had nothing to do with bodybuilding. He died some years ago. He was the only muscleman I've met willing to step outside that comfort zone, at least aound my neck of the woods.

Again, I'm not speaking for every bodybuilder everywhere. I can only speak from the experiences I've had here in the Bible Belt.

[Lucas88]

I look at things this way...as long as I'm debating/arguing with you, I'm listening to you and you might actually persuade me so no offense taken or intended. This is just my experience and opinions based on that experience.

I do have some experience as the "average guy". While I've always been tall, I was painfully skinny until my very late teens and early twenties...I didn't exist to the jock crowd, except for one bodybuilder/football player (straight) that was the brother of one of my friends. We became good friends senior year. He graduated from high school at about 6' and 225 or 230 pounds of muscle. Not huge but BUILT. He's the one that wanted to "create a monster" when I came home between college semesters and my metabolism had shifted...I started bulking up fast in a good way, but until then the gym was not one of the things we had in common.

The rural areas are hard...the smaller the town and the more rural the environment, the more limited the "choices". I've spent a lot of time on the family farm in North Carolina and went to college down there. It's a lot different from the NoVA / DC Metro area, BELIEVE ME.

But...if you're not happy, thinking a bodybuilder boyfriend will make you happy is a dream. People need to be happy with themselves as much as possible and be open when that "right person" comes along regardless of their build.

[hulkoutlvr]

Again, well said,

I'm pretty content with who I am. And you're also right that rural areas are difficult, but current family circumstances are dictating that I remain, at least for a while.

I have been blessed to meet bodybuilders on here that have become great friends, and we talk about a wide variety of subjects that have nothing to do with muscle. While I love the way bodybuilders look, also love the way they think, and have the utmost respect for the dedication it takes for them to end up looking that way.

As for the idea that little guys are jealous of big guys, I can safely say in many cases that's true. Not in my case, though. Actually I don't know what I'd do with all that muscle if I had it, lol. I look at it like this. On "Designing Women", Suzanne (Delta Burke) once accused Mary Jo (Annie Potts) of being jealous of her. Mary Jo said: "Suzanne, we're not jealous of you. We don't want to be you. We just want you to think it's ok to be US."

Given your obvious intelligence Lucas, I know you can understand where I'm coming from with that statement. There is a marginalized portion of the bodybuilding community who looks at non-bodybuilders, esp those non-bodybuilders who love muscle, as insects. I even once heard a bodybuilder at the gym I used to go to refer to them as "gym flies". That's a little insulting.

[paarke]

Originally Posted by Lucas88

But...if you're not happy, thinking a bodybuilder boyfriend will make you happy is a dream. People need to be happy with themselves as much as possible and be open when that "right person" comes along regardless of their build.

You're absoultely right there. I've surprised myself sometimes with people I've gone for, but, for me at least, physical attraction is only part of the equation and a nice personality or a good sense of humour can go a long way. Much as I love muscle I can't do anything, whether its just sex or something more meaningful unless there is some kind of deeper connection there. For whatever reason I genuinely do not like it if people think I'm just lusting after them purely because of their body. I like them to know I'm interested in them as a person, not just a piece of meat. Having said all that, much as I don't like it and try to do something about it I suppose I would come under the chub banner, so I've not had much opportunity to meet many muscle guys, but I think all you can do is be yourself and see what happens. There's always a danger that you spend so much time looking for one particular thing you might miss something really great that is right under your nose.

[gmcra19]

sorry had to delete this responce.

[FuzzyKB]

Originally Posted by msllover

Ever notice that mucular guys seem to ONLY like other muscular masculine guys?

I've met lots of gay guys that are buff, trouble is they're looking for either twinks or buff guys.

I'm wondering if that is the general feeling.

Granted: if I worked really hard on my body, I'd want to be w/ another guy that worked really hard on his body.

But I like muscle anyways so I'm kinda biased.

Are there buff guys that like "average" guys?

*sighs*

There is no single set rule on this. Some years ago when I was "in the market" I dated several men who were competitive and one who had modeled for Rip Colt. At that time I was at least in my own eyes very average at least when compared against these fellows. Many fellows into the sport on a serious level are different from those who just want to use it as a sex lure. My experience personally at that time was that those who would best be described as very large wanted the emotional and spiritual support of another individual who were in to their success and not an individual who would be competing in some way with them. The first fellow I met in this class brought me socially into groups where there were others with the same feelings and I never had problems.

Now, in order as an average guy to survive dating a fellow like this and I mean individuals who are on a competitive level, you end up making a great number of compromises in your own life. From what my observations were, this was the key. You have to realize that the nutritional requirements and workouts take an importance level over everything else, and, as a result of this, events, trips, meals, outings, and the rest tend to revolve around the availability of what is needed for people on this level to continue their workouts and prosper.

All of us are attracted to a great body. That is great but the perception of a great body differs between individuals. I knew of a case where a very large bodybuilder was in to dating men in to "bellybuilding" and this was his thing.

I would have thought that in all reality during those years that I would have had a terrible time getting dates. I am to this date a total top. I still prospered because people into this are as diverse as any other community and I never had any problems.

I had in those years to be able to accept and move in and around all aspects with knowledge and understanding. I also had to accept and understand the usage of all forms of juice and the in's and out's of that.

My experience was also that when an individual comes home to their romantic squeeze that they want to have as normal a life as is possible and they do not want to be treated exclusively as a sex object. Yes, they are great, and yes the muscle worship and all that has it's ego moments, but all of that can get really old to guys living with this on a daily basis.

Be yourself and start looking for gay social circles where people mix with competitive level individuals.

One other thing.

Remember that the sport itself is extremely homophobic in some places. You also need to be able to understand and accept that fact. There is a great deal of politics involved and because the money in the sport is in the product endorsements and percs to come after the titles, the cover-ups are many and frequent.

Much like Greg Louganis was screwed into the ground by General Mills because of his orientation many sports supplement manufacturers feel and fear the ramifications of an openly gay competitor. When he was under consideration for a Wheaties Box he was blown off by conservatives within the company. Bob Paris ran into this a great deal as well. Others who were destroyed by orientation issues have included David Papaleo (Tom Katt) and the porn actor and PT known in the industry as Matt or Matthew Rush. David Papaleo after a great deal of born again publicity is back on the gay screen again and "Matt" simply gave up.

Dating a real bodybuilder has it's good and bad points, but the best advice I can give is simply to start going to competitions and begin to move in and out of these social circles. There are a ton of gay individuals who are extremely open to dating and such, but, you will not meet them as a whole on boards or on the net. It is probably long gone now, but there used to be one particular gay bar down in the area not far from Venice, California who had a very heavy emphasis on that crowd as well. There are tons of gay men there and finding what you want will not be difficult if you play by the rules that they must live under. Success is easy with people not doing it exclusively for the purpose of creating a sex magnet.

[msllover]

Very helpful Fuzzy, thank you.

All you guys bring up valid and helpful points. I'm take some steps to be more attractive but I also see areas I need to improve. So far I've lost 15Ibs in the past 2 months.

I have almost a weird phobia of gyms. Odd ain't it? I start to have a minor panic attach when near a gym (that I'm aware of) and feel EXTREMELY uncomfortable in one. I feel as though I'm totally naked. It doesn't matter if the room was empty or if the room was full of chicks. Same fearful feeling.

So I am going to do some things at home. Minor things.

I've never been to a bodybuilding show. I've been much too afraid. Afraid of getting my ass beaten for looking at a guy the wrong way.

But what I crave is the connections. Yes, I'm attracted to buff guys, pretty much just buff guys. But there must be a foundation beneath just muscle worship for the relationship to survive and grow. I seek to understand his needs and wants and fears and I hope to help him acheive his goals. I hope to ease his fears.

I'm a nurse by trade and a nurturer by nature. I enjoy caring for others, and hope to have a relationship where we care and nuture eachother. Humor is also important for me.

I'm very willing to learn what limitations are involved and I'm willing to cope with them if I understand what they are. I'm unsure if I could be with someone still totally in the closet. If they are partly in the closet, that's OK. Its not my place to out someone and its not my place to decide when a person is "ready" to come out, but I'm totally out and very open so I think it would be difficult to be with someone totally closeted, but I'm willing to try that.

Overall it comes to personality and how well he and I work together. Sex is freakin' sweet, but that usually doesn't take up the whole day. Does he like to cuddle? Does he like to kiss? Does he like to hike? Does he like to watch movies? Will he let me do my things and can he do things on his own.

ON a side note: I guess part of what spurred this was a deep frustration that on dating sites and sites like gay.com or manhunt, there are so many fakes that use someone elses pic and then say they want only "masculine,muscular." More than anything, I need a guy that's honest.

*big deep breath, and exhale*

[brent]

You need to get rid of your gym phobia! Go with a friend or something. Gyms want your money, so the staff is always friendly, and most are used to newbies that are nervous. Here's a little secrete: everyone in a gym was a newby once, and we all remember what it was like.

[brent]

Another tactic would be to find a nice, honest guy in your area that's into muscle too, then get into working out together! It's a lot easier for 2 people to start then just one...

[miniace2009]

I do find it disheartening in general that guys around my age (19) expect perfection in their bodies when I simply wasn't a gym going or extremely athletic kid in my high school years (something I regret because I very easily could have been.) Now I'm about average weight and build compared to most guys my age, but none of them are interested in anything but perfection. I mean, I'm going to the gym though my diet needs to get a lot better...I have problems with resisting temptations.

I mean yes, I want a huge muscle guy to totally have wild crazy sex with. I don't exactly EXPECT to achieve this with the body I have right now, but hey, dreams are awesome. But I would love to find a guy who's at least my build but also really cute. I've been told I'm not a bad looking guy, so I don't think I'm asking for too much there =P

tl;dr: I wish that gay men in general didn't have such high expectations.

[msllover]

Its true, I think gay men often expect the world! We are unfair and often very judgemental. Have you ever worked at a place and been the only gay guy and then another one gets hired and suddenly you feel VERY comptetitive? Maybe that's just me.

Granted, being a teen is tough. Its a very akward time in one's life. The sand will settle in a few years. Its just hard to hear that as a teen.

Taylor
But yeah, its hard period.

[miniace2009]

I know EXACTLY what you mean msllover. I started working at the local Staples near me, and there was a kid there who hadn't come out. (I mean, I knew he was gay...it seemed obvious to me.) I was out to everybody about it if they asked me (and I told some people as well by making comments) but if they asked me about him, I said I don't know because I didn't wanna be a dick and out him to everybody. Well, he eventually came out, and now he's a raging asshole to everyone around him. He definitely feels like we're competing, and I'm sad to say I succumb to it sometimes. He's more into the twinks (and being a twink himself has zero trouble getting with them) while my palatte is somewhat harder to please I guess.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by hulkoutlvr

I would probably get kind of bent out of shape if I had to work up my courage to talk to someone and them have them say to my face that I wasn't attractive.

That kind of rejection is all too common in predominantly gay gyms and gay clubs, or wherever there is a large gathering of gay men. There's a phoniness and tactlessness that some people don't realize they are guilty of. They think, for some reason, they have the right to say whatever they want. There's a biblical proverb that says "only the fool speaks all his mind". Little do they realize that beauty is fleeting, can be lost with one car crash, and that they themselves may have the genes to become trolls.

If someone doesn't find someone attractive enough to hook up with, forfucksakes have the social grace to reject them politely. But social grace and tact are lacking nowadays. I met a guy years ago when I first came out, through an ad. We talked on the phone, and I drove to his condo. He was really good looking. When we met we talked a bit, then he said "you know, I'm really not up to going out tonight. I'm sorry I made you come all the way over here". He was somewhat tall, athletic build... model type material. I'm short, stocky, had a buzzcut and goatee (completely cleanshaven now, head and face)... totally different than what he was probably looking for. I knew what he meant but he did it politely.

[Minotaur]

Originally Posted by Lucas88

First, I've got to play devil's advocate here. There are plenty of people out there who are not into musclemen (maybe not on this board but they're out there) and don't find big guys attractive in the least.

Big guys need love too. A lot of people are intimidated if a guy is big and good looking. They think what could he possibly see in me. That's a disservice and insult to both people. If I saw a built and good looking guy, or a built and average looking guy, and he seemed to be sending signals like a smile or eye contact or a friendly nod, I'd have no problem approaching him. But that's me.

Though you are right that muscle is not the be-all and end-all for a lot of people. I personally don't care, I like 'em all. Man-whore that I am.

[Bull]

Speaking for myself, when I had no build at all, I was REALLY into bodybuilders. When I was in my best shape, I was into much smaller guys. My point is, I don't think you can generalize.

I only ever met one guy who embodied the bad stereotype of a gay bodybuilder. In New York, as you might expect. He had this entourage of smaller "wanna-bes" who followed him everywhere, all of whom were such screamers, they gave me a headache after five minutes. They would only shut-up when Himself would start to pontificate about his previous night's erotic adventures. I always remember him saying about some bar: "Of course, there was nothing there for ME." I exploded with laughter at his pomposity. What a sad, empty little man.

In my experience, most bodybuilders, gay or straight, are friendly guys, slightly insecure, who are always more than happy to hear how great they look. No, they don't want some stranger slobbering all over them; who does? But I've never met one yet who didn't respond well to a compliment, followed by a question about training. Just treat them with respect, and you will recieve the same in return. And they will always respect a guy just starting out, who is serious about training. It's where they all began, after all.

[msllover]

Goodness I feel like we need a group hug.

[msllover]

Thank you Bull, very well put.

[musclegod]

It's not just a gay thing. Muscle does seem to attract muscle. Over the years as I have grown bigger and more muscular I have noticed that other muscular guys seem to want to be my friend. Sometimes I think that my muscles are like a flame and that other muscular guys are like moths being drawn to them. Virtually every new guy who joins the gym who is a bodybuilder or MMA fighter or jock of some sort always finds a reason to come up and talk with me. Sometimes they just stare for a while. In that case I'll break they ice as I think that they may be too intimidated or just plain shy. It's true for pro bodybuilders or competitve athletes. It just seems that muscular guys like to identify with other muscular guys. Even if they are straight it seems to validate what they are or aspire to be by being with another guy who is muscular and powerful. I make a lot of friends this way. It's kind of cool!

[Brahma]

Originally Posted by musclegod

It just seems that muscular guys like to identify with other muscular guys. Even if they are straight it seems to validate what they are or aspire to be by being with another guy who is muscular and powerful.

I have to agree. It helps that I can talk to several friends who are exercising. I feel less lost in this new challenge.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by musclegod

...it seems to validate what they are or aspire to be by being with another guy who is muscular and powerful. I make a lot of friends this way. It's kind of cool!

To agree with Brahma, Minotaur, Musclegod and just about every other guy on here - very true!

Everyone wants to "fit in" and be part of the "in" or "cool" crowd. Big-ass bodybuilders with huge, ripped muscles are a paradigm of the ultimate "cool, masculine dude", so naturally everyone wants to BE or KNOW "that guy"!

BTW MuscleGod, are you REALLY 325 pounds?! YOWZA!! I can understand why new guys to the gym stop and stare! How many years have you been lifting?

Mdlftr

[musclegod]

I've been lifting and feeding for over 20 years. My goal is to get to 350 this year with no ore than 10% bf. Thanks for the complement. It means a lot to me. Obviously, I am obsessed with muscle and have come to love being the big, dominant alpha. Sometimes I hear that voice in my head that says that I must become the largest, most muscular man in the world! The other voice is that I know that I know that I am not like other men. My drive and determination is way beyond the realm of "normal". I'm fascinated to know what it's like not to have muscle or the true obsessive drive to build it. I also recognize that at 6'2" most guys can never pack on my kind of mass. When I see or meet guys that are say 5'8" and thick with buldging pecs and big arms I am really impressed. Building muscle is a truly male obsession. Smaller guys can crave it just the same as me. I love being friends with them and helping them grow.

[gogr2]

Originally Posted by Mdlftr

BTW MuscleGod, are you REALLY 325 pounds?! YOWZA!! I can understand why new guys to the gym stop and stare! How many years have you been lifting?

Mdlftr

I can attest to MuscleGod being at least 320... and that was back in june of last year before I headed out to Afghanistan... He is an awesome guy in every sense of the word. I can't wait to see him again when I get back this summer.

MuscleGod, Feed and Grow! I'll be joining in once this deployment is over and I can get a normal schedule again.