How to get big without getting big?

[er.ric]

guys, i am looking for a diet to help me grow solid muscles without growing any fat, ideally reduce my bodyfat to an absolute minimum. i'd love to have no bit of fat or water cover my muscles - and grow them more and more. you get the idea. so, any sound ideas?

[monstermusclebe]

If you do not have much muscle on you, already, then it *should* (in general) be possible to ~ slowly ~ gain *some* muscle without gaining much, if at all, fat.

There are a lot of bodybuilding programs out there. The one I recommend (see my signoff) will offer you advice on getting you what you are looking for, and will offer much more specific advice than I will offer here.

Determining what to eat and how much of it to eat will be dependent upon your present body condition and how much training you have already put your body through, and what sort of exercise (workout program, level of your intensity in the gym, amount of aerobics, etc.) you plan to employ to reach your goals. All of those factors affect the other ones. Your age and metabolism are also huge factors here, as well as the nature of the foods you eat (i.e. raw, processed, good fats/bad fats, etc.). Gaining muscle is NOT easy.

For example: Say you are in your mid 30s and have already had some solid workout training under your belt, and you have just a wee bit of fat on you and want to get that six pack back plus add a few more pounds of muscle... all without gaining more fat. Great: Be sure you continue to follow (and/or begin to employ) a workout program for mass building. Just following the exercises is not enough. Be sure you learn about the importance of intensity, #s of reps for mass gain, etc. Also ~ especially because you want to not gain fat ~ be sure you are doing adequate aerobics on top of that.

Then... unless you were previously gaining weight with your bodybuilding diet (5 to 7 meals a day, all healthy foods, divided up into correct levels of carbs, proteins and fats at different times of day/before and after workouts, etc.) up until then, you should then up your calories a BIT, veeery slowly i.e. about 100 calories per day, per week, until you see you are gaining some fat along with the muscle gains. Once you spot that, dial back the calories by 100-200 cals per day, per week, until you no longer see the fat gain (guys can usually spot this in the size of their waist or belly) ~ and/or up the aerobics (less recommended if you are already doing 4-5 days of it at 25 or so minutes per day, as more than that can inhibit muscle growth, in my experience). You should continue to be looking for WEIGHT gain, though, albeit likely less than a pound a week, given your strong desire not to gain fat. If you are not gaining weight, then you will need to look at some aspect of your bodybuilding program and tweak it.

But this process will be SLOW. It will take a lot of time. It will not turn you into a huge bodybuilder. And it is NOT fool proof.

For guys like me, who want to pack on some serious muscle (40 -50 #s), following my advice above would be INSANE. It is only for those wanting to gain a little muscle... and they should not already have a lot of muscle on them.

And obviously I am not giving you anywhere near the level of information you need to put together a workout and diet plan. I'm sorry, but that level of information is quite detailed and extensive... so I recommend you find someone who knows a lot about workouts and diets and interview them extensively, or get a workout and diet program like the one I recommend below. If you don't know a lot about working out and dieting, expect to do a lot of reading and studying on the subject. It isn't rocket science... but there are a LOT of factors that need to be juggled correctly in order to achieve muscle gains. Adding the "and no fat gain" to that makes the challenge all the more difficult.

NOW: If you want to put on a LOT of mass (say, 30-40 lbs. of muscle or ([hehe... yes PLEASE do this...] much more), its probably best for you to give up the dream of never gaining any fat along with the muscle. Big bodybuilders will tell you that the fat comes with the mass gain. You then diet back after you achieve the muscle gains you are seeking.

Best wishes towards the achievement of your dreams.

[er.ric]

thank you very much for your extensive answer learned alot. hm, i wanna grow really big and focus on bodybuilding as a lifestyle rather than just a hobby. so i guess i'll have to live with gaining fat as well.

if i had the money i'd hire a personal coach, but i even lack the money for supplements you know, i am just a student. so i will try my best to teach myself by reading stuff on the internet and yeah.. thanks

[monstermusclebe]

Good luck. Given you are young and a student, may I recommend you simply find ways to eat at least five time a day. Focus on healthier foods, but don't worry TOO much about that. Focus mostly on the frequency of eating and on getting your workouts in, and on building the intensity in the gym. There is a thing as too much intensity, but MOST people fail by not being intense enough. Once you are into workout out regularly, the primary key, I have found, is to have at least one exercise of each body part include an incredibly intense set (ideally 2 or 3 of those) where you take it to and even what feels like beyond your limits. That is what tells the muscles to grow bigger.

[inflated]

Monstermuscle is right, stick to eating healthy, eating more frequently and working out with increasing intensity in the gym. Keep good form with your lifting and you will lessen your chance of an injury. Stick to the main three lifts--"no substitutions" Squats, Deadlifts, and Bench Press with free weights, so squats mean deep squats with good form with weights--not a machine substitute. These lifts are all important because they will help direct your central nervous system towards increasing coordination and strength in these lifts. Good luck to you

[FuzzyKB]

Originally Posted by er.ric

thank you very much for your extensive answer learned alot. hm, i wanna grow really big and focus on bodybuilding as a lifestyle rather than just a hobby. so i guess i'll have to live with gaining fat as well.

if i had the money i'd hire a personal coach, but i even lack the money for supplements you know, i am just a student. so i will try my best to teach myself by reading stuff on the internet and yeah.. thanks

There are people who talk about a lean mass only route in bodybuilding but my personal experience is that this does not work well for most individuals.

When the kid took up bodybuilding he was making slow gains, but, the look was not bodybuilder at all. He was lean, he was cut, and yes there were size gains but the pace was one that would make a snail look fast.

Going back in my own life into a different time I pulled knowledge of the sport and some friendships.

When I did this the kid (then 18) really began to pack on the muscle. The first round took him from 130 pounds to 180. The second round from 155 to 216 and the most recent bulking diet peaked at 226 and the bottom end will probably end up about 180. This is not a yo yo of incredible speed with each phase lasting 6 months or more.

When the body fat goes up the lifting numbers go up because the stored fat is easily converted to glycogen which is fuel for the muscles. With each round you gain more size and at his bulked up peak he had 19.5" bi's. What we have now however is that by the time he reaches the bottom end the losses will not be as large as you might imagine. The idea is not to do any of it too fast as to shock the body. The gain speed depends on you, but the loss speed should be no more than 5 pounds per week at most. You want to retain the fat and work it off as fuel rather than diet it off from nutritional compromises. Think of that fat as long as it is not excessive as a full fuel tank. The highest fat percentage should be between 27-30% for each cycle, and it is the fat percentage that determines your peak.

Let's assume for a moment that you start your first bulking cycle at 130 pounds. If we use the 30% rule that would mean that you end that cycle and go to the cutting at about 169 pounds. If you do it right your next bottom after "cutting" should be at about 140-141. The second bulking cycle should end again using the 30% rule would peak you at about 182 at your peak. When you do the cutting this will take you down to probably 155-160. After the third cycle the rule that a number of pros followed was to decrease the figure of the max allowed over time. You do your first three at the 30% rule, the next three at 25% and then after that you should have your metabolism and body conditioned to doing this. Then you set the normal max at 18% increase. Many pros stick to the 18% rule for years and use that as their max as a seasoned pro.

Do the best you can within those guidelines and remember that to build muscle you need fuel which unfortunately IS the glycogen stored in the muscle.

Good Luck!

[FuzzyKB]

Originally Posted by FuzzyKB

There are people who talk about a lean mass only route in bodybuilding but my personal experience is that this does not work well for most individuals.

When the kid took up bodybuilding he was making slow gains, but, the look was not bodybuilder at all. He was lean, he was cut, and yes there were size gains but the pace was one that would make a snail look fast.

Going back in my own life into a different time I pulled knowledge of the sport and some friendships.

When I did this the kid (then 18) really began to pack on the muscle. The first round took him from 130 pounds to 180. The second round from 155 to 216 and the most recent bulking diet peaked at 226 and the bottom end will probably end up about 180. This is not a yo yo of incredible speed with each phase lasting 6 months or more.

When the body fat goes up the lifting numbers go up because the stored fat is easily converted to glycogen which is fuel for the muscles. With each round you gain more size and at his bulked up peak he had 19.5" bi's. What we have now however is that by the time he reaches the bottom end the losses will not be as large as you might imagine. The idea is not to do any of it too fast as to shock the body. The gain speed depends on you, but the loss speed should be no more than 5 pounds per week at most. You want to retain the fat and work it off as fuel rather than diet it off from nutritional compromises. Think of that fat as long as it is not excessive as a full fuel tank. The highest fat percentage should be between 27-30% for each cycle, and it is the fat percentage that determines your peak.

Let's assume for a moment that you start your first bulking cycle at 130 pounds. If we use the 30% rule that would mean that you end that cycle and go to the cutting at about 169 pounds. If you do it right your next bottom after "cutting" should be at about 140-141. The second bulking cycle should end again using the 30% rule would peak you at about 182 at your peak. When you do the cutting this will take you down to probably 155-160. After the third cycle the rule that a number of pros followed was to decrease the figure of the max allowed over time. You do your first three at the 30% rule, the next three at 25% and then after that you should have your metabolism and body conditioned to doing this. Then you set the normal max at 18% increase. Many pros stick to the 18% rule for years and use that as their max as a seasoned pro.

Do the best you can within those guidelines and remember that to build muscle you need fuel which unfortunately IS the glycogen stored in the muscle.

Good Luck!

Caught an error in my posting and in the final sentence it should read glycogen stored as fat. Sorry I did not catch this more quickly and I had the complication of a computer error which prevented an edit of the original.

[er.ric]

Thanks guys, I've observed my current behavior the last days and wanna report to you, please do not hesitate with further suggestions as I am prepared to have even greater discipline with my diet and such, really wanna focus on building my body.

My diet was yesterday for example like this:

Morning: 500 g of Quark (hard to explain to someone non-german, imagine a thing between Yogurt and Cottage cheese, very creamy tho it has only 0.5 % milk fat and the rest is pure milk proteine and of course some parts of water), mixed with sweetener (0% sugar, strawberry flavor) and an apple cut in little pieces

Noon before going to the gym: a plate of potatoe salad (the southern german version, means no mayo or cream in the dressing but vinegar and herbs)

After getting home from gym: another 500 g of Quark with sweetener and a blended banana mixed in

Dinner: lettuce with a can of tuna (vinegar dressing with little olive oil)

...I do not believe in "low carb", as I feel that I am close to faint during workout if I do low carb. But I only eat carbs from veggies and fruits, nothing processed at all. Also no candy, junk food, if cola/lemonade so only the diet version without any sugar (I know sweeteners have their downside but yeah I need some taste as I am grown in the western world, you know how it is we can hardly live without any overly sweet stuff lol). And I drink 3-4 liters of pure water per day, rather more than less.

My training:

20 minutes on the treadmill as a warm up (pulse between 130 and 150)

Then starts my schedule (butterfly etc.), I am sorry but I just hate barbells as of now, the "machines" help me to exercise the exercises in the right way; I hope this is no issue - I'll try to gain more body control later on but yeah as of now.. I am too unsure with barbells only. I do 2 sets of 20 reps with 90% my maximum weight I can lift and 1 set with 10 reps of 100-110% of my maximum weight (with the last lift almost hurting).

20 more minutes on the treadmill at the end, as my kind of aerobics (do not only want to get stronger but also more fit).

Then I hurry home (takes me only 15 mins as I live closeby) and eat something like described above.

Suggestions? Do you think supplements would make sense, and if so which? Don't wanna waste money for no or only little benefit (if it gives me, say, 5% faster growth forget about it; I am just student you know... ).

Thanks so far. Oh and as the age thingy popped up several times: I am 25 years old, 190 cm tall, my goal is to look like Antoine Vaillant at some point and later on to grow even larger. But that is a matter of years, I know...

[Ragetiger]

Right idea to start with machines to get the proper feel for an exercise. I did the same thing, slowly replacing machines with free weight. The free weights will train the smaller muscle that might not get used with the machine, mainly the ones the keep the body stable.

It's also a good idea to keep track of your physical progress with pictures. A few here love seeing how much change a person has undergone.

[er.ric]

It also seems that I can much easier grow my back, chest and triceps muscles than (especially) my biceps muscles. For example on the machine that trains your lower back muscles I can already press 86 kilos, on the triceps machine I can easily press 60 kilos and will go up to 65 in my today workout but on the leg biceps bench I am sweating like crazy after 2 sets with 20 reps with 22.5 kilos, on the arm biceps machine with 25 kilos. What a disparity!

[msllover]

I think with machines people are generally able to lift more. However, AWESOME job on your growth and gains!

As far as eating and dieting that's a bit beyond my knowledge.

I'm unsure if its good to choose foods based on your bodytype or based on what you want as an end goal. Can someone answer that?

[Ragetiger]

Originally Posted by er.ric

It also seems that I can much easier grow my back, chest and triceps muscles than (especially) my biceps muscles. For example on the machine that trains your lower back muscles I can already press 86 kilos, on the triceps machine I can easily press 60 kilos and will go up to 65 in my today workout but on the leg biceps bench I am sweating like crazy after 2 sets with 20 reps with 22.5 kilos, on the arm biceps machine with 25 kilos. What a disparity!

There's something you should know. The tricep has to be the stronger muscle. It has three heads while the bicep only has two.

[msllover]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't one of the tricks to having HUGE bicpes to actually have really bit triceps? It makes since in that about 3/5's of the upper arm is tricep tissue compared to 2/5's of the bicep.

But yeah, when I look for REALLY good biceps, I always notice the tricep. I look for a good balance between the two which shows that the bodybuilder has a balanced program/physique. Not to mention I love both bi and tri. *sigh*

:P

[Muscled6ft3]

Complex carbs (whole-grains, oatmeal, for example) are great for workout energy if eaten at least an hour before you hit the weights.

To help lose the "spare tire," completely eliminate stuff like white bread, white rice, white pasta and regular potatoes and switch to smaller quantities of whole-grain versions. Eat sweet potatoes if you need a fix. Heavy starches go right to your mid-section, especially as you get older.

Completely eliminate processed sugars and high-fructose corn syrup. If you need something sweet, eat some grapes, a bananna or an apple. Natural sugar in fruits (and moderated amounts of dairy products) are fine. I switched to diabetic chocolate and try to keep processed sugar intake to less than 15 grams/day.

Break your food intake up into 5 or 6 smaller meals a day. It helps keep your metabolism up, which helps burn off the spare tire. Drink plenty of fluids (note I did NOT say sodas). Ditch the energy drinks and sodas completely.

At least one complete training session a week should be dedicated to INTENSE core. Yeah, I know it sucks more than doing legs but the strength progression is worth every minute you push yourself to the limit.

Keep up the veggies and increase your protein intake. Good food works!! Make certain you are getting plenty of sleep and stick to your training, even on days when your ass is dragging. It all pays off, and you'll see it happen!

I dropped from a 37" to 34" waist in one year and did not lose 1 pound in the process by sticking to what I just typed above. Train hard and eat well man!