Do You Ever Get Tired Of Being Gay?

[Stoneman]

Because I know I sure do!

But seriously, do you?

[arpeejay]

Nope!

Keep in mind that I didn't actually come out / start living my life as a gay man (including have sex with guys) until I was 35 years old. Maybe when I'm 70 (circa 2028) I'll feel like I've caught up, not in the meantime.

xoxo

Richard

[chuckiebear]

Yes, I sometimes get tired of feeling so drawn to men, especially when no one seems to return my interest. The addiction to muscle sometimes feels oppressive, almost like being subservient to the "alpha" ideal of the male without being rewarded with even the crumbs of his coveted attention. Thank God for the web; especially this site and others devoted to feeding my cravings. As far as gay culture is concerned, I don't really fit in much. I do sing in the local gay men's chorus, but I'm not a sparkling conversationalist, or a flaming fabulous queen. I cannot be out at work, as I would lose my job over it in the homophobic workplace I'm in. Don't smoke, or drink much alcohol. Here in this town there's no gay gym. So it's really hard to meet gay guys in a healthy environment. Other than these obstacles, what could I possibly have to complain about?

[Geek2Jock]

I find the question as nonsensical as being asked "Do you ever get tired of breathing air?" because to be anything other than gay would be nothing more than theater for me... it is who I am.

[geo07]

Originally Posted by drew

I get tired of people for whom whom they fuck is more important than who they are.

That part of being gay gets old. This weird deal they being gay is the primary force in their lives. That's such a weak way of looking at things to me. I don't think you'd look at a straight guy as straight first then everything else second.

I think the mandated gay culture is for those few guys who have nothing else about them of any value. So yeah, as far as that goes the being gay part can get old.

I couldn't agree with you more, drew. I hate guys who make their sexuality such a fundamental aspect of who they are. I'm gay, but it's just one part of me, and my friends would think of loads of other ways to describe me before they got around to my sexuality. There is so much more to people than just who they sleep with.

[niko777]

Originally Posted by drew

I get tired of people for whom whom they fuck is more important than who they are.

That part of being gay gets old. This weird deal they being gay is the primary force in their lives. That's such a weak way of looking at things to me. I don't think you'd look at a straight guy as straight first then everything else second.

I think the mandated gay culture is for those few guys who have nothing else about them of any value. So yeah, as far as that goes the being gay part can get old.

I look at it this way: I'm a str8 guy who can decorate, loves the cock, and would puke if he ever got too close to that alien monstrosity called a vagina.

I like your way of thinking, drew. You see, I'm not gay; I'm straight but I happen to love big muscles. I don't wish to have sex with men and I love sex with women. It's just that for a reason, I like imagining myself huge and strong as hell. I'm straight but I respect gay people for who they are: humans. I hate seeing a gay guy (or a gay girl) looking like a fool trying to impress everybody with a "gaytitude" that's as fake as Cher's face. When you meet a guy, you don't start wondering about his sexual orientation or his sexual habits, you try to know him for who he is. Why do some homosexuals have to put in your face that they suck cocks and like being slapped by hairy men? I want to respect people but only if they give me reasons to respect them, whatever their sexual orientation is. Just be yourself.

[Gene]

Worth repeating!

Originally Posted by drew

I get tired of people for whom whom they fuck is more important than who they are.

That part of being gay gets old. This weird deal they being gay is the primary force in their lives. That's such a weak way of looking at things to me. I don't think you'd look at a straight guy as straight first then everything else second.

I think the mandated gay culture is for those few guys who have nothing else about them of any value. So yeah, as far as that goes the being gay part can get old.

I look at it this way: I'm a str8 guy who can decorate, loves the cock, and would puke if he ever got too close to that alien monstrosity called a vagina.

I didn't come out until I was 30. I made up for lost time educating myself in many dark areas, but by the time I was 50 I was getting kind of jaded by it. I made some good friends but I saw a lot of unhappy people who were caught up in the meaningless flamboyency and ever more meaningless sex. I had a good "marriage" for 13 years till he died. I went out and tried to get back into the scene but a lot of the sparkle had evaporated. I am still gay. I have no interest what-so-ever in female companionship. I get turned on by handsome and muscular men, but I get turned off by queens and bar flies.

[bigbob111]

Ive NEVER had contact with the gay community and probably never will. I can easily see myself in a "bromance" but thats about it. I have been propositioned to on occasions, but seriously, some guys just arnt stable.

on the funny side its interesting to know that the average "straight" man (if there really is such a thing) spends just as much time looking at other mens bodies as they do to womens.

[WhoDunIt]

Are you talking just looking, or more of a creepy leer?

[musqlure]

Originally Posted by niko777

Why do some homosexuals have to put in your face that they suck cocks and like being slapped by hairy men? I want to respect people but only if they give me reasons to respect them, whatever their sexual orientation is.

Um, just a hint here. We're not "homosexuals." We're gay. See, when you call someone a "homosexual," it shows that you're not looking at anything other than that person's sexual orientation.

And the reason that you should respect other people is because they're your fellow human beings. That in and of itself is reason enough. I may not be thrilled by what you do in bed, but I don't look at it as a strike against you and then use it to place the burden on you to give me a "reason" to respect you.

In case you haven't noticed, straight people throw their sexual orientation in everyone's face in myriad ways every day of the week. Y'all have big, ostentatious weddings. Y'all have baby showers. Y'all have christenings. All those things are deemed worthy of mention in local newspapers. Because you're in the majority, you've been able to make major events in your sex lives and reproductive cycles into sacraments. In contrast, gay sex and gay relationships have been treated as criminal until very recently. But the only reason for the difference is an unequal power relationship.

So you don't like it if gay men are open about their sexual preferences? Oh well, now you can imagine what we go through every day of our lives.

[bigbob111]

Originally Posted by WhoDunIt

Are you talking just looking, or more of a creepy leer?

Usually just looking. Sometimes in brief glances up and down, sometimes a stare that quickly snaps back when they realise they make it obvious. In reality there is absolutely no way to tell most gay men from straight ones. Start a conversation with anyone about sports and its not hard to get them verbose about their bodies and the bodies of their favourite athletes. They never actually admit that they are turned on by strength but its pretty much obvious if you listen to what people are saying.

[BGryphon18]

ALL THE DAMN TIME!

LOL! I can actually relate to this on some days more so than others. Though I think it's more-so due to the fact that I'm tired of being alone (i.e. single) rather than with my sexuality. I've been told a few times over the years that several attractive women are interested in me but as the feeling is not mutual it is sort of a blow to the ego that I'm attractive, just not to the right people!

Not to mention try as I might, one of the drawbacks of being so drawn to and practically OBSESSED with muscle is that I'm somewhat shallow and will have that moment of judgement based on how physically attractive a person is. Granted a lot of the time I will look past this as one of the greatest parts about being so drawn to and obsessed with muscle is that with work, it can be changed. You can have someone who is the hottest thing on two legs but who has the personality and attitude of... well being the hottest thing on two legs and I will be instantly turned off. However there are several guys I know that I look at them initially with that judgement but then switch gears and think "I wonder how they'd look with another 50-100 lbs of muscle on them" as they have such a great attitude, personality and are just so much fun to be with that I really don't take my fetish into account.

I'm sure that most people... actually I'm convinced ALL people will have that initial moment of judgement but it varies in strength and duration depending on who you are. Some people will be stuck and resolute in what they want and will never compromise and others have the fortune of finding that "diamond in the rough" that while they may not be the physical ideal of your fantasies, they make up for it in so many other ways that your fantasies can change to reflect them rather than the other way around.

[blondYT]

thanks, musqlure. certain imbalances become so routine that people forget that one group really is receiving centrality and favoritism. i think about how often queers are expected to watch and identify with str8 actors and storylines. we manage it. but str8 people, for the most part, "can't relate" to gay stories. or so they say. it's just an act of imagination.

so, most TV shows now, after obama, centers on str8 white characters with one GLBT and one person of color orbiting around them. yay, america!

i wouldn't have a problem with it, if it wasn't so damned repetitive. as long as the central spot is reserved for str8 whites, all the sprinkling in the world won't get us to an equal place... just more and more sophisticated versions of servitude.

[niko777]

Originally Posted by musqlure

Um, just a hint here. We're not "homosexuals." We're gay. See, when you call someone a "homosexual," it shows that you're not looking at anything other than that person's sexual orientation.

And the reason that you should respect other people is because they're your fellow human beings. That in and of itself is reason enough. I may not be thrilled by what you do in bed, but I don't look at it as a strike against you and then use it to place the burden on you to give me a "reason" to respect you.

In case you haven't noticed, straight people throw their sexual orientation in everyone's face in myriad ways every day of the week. Y'all have big, ostentatious weddings. Y'all have baby showers. Y'all have christenings. All those things are deemed worthy of mention in local newspapers. Because you're in the majority, you've been able to make major events in your sex lives and reproductive cycles into sacraments. In contrast, gay sex and gay relationships have been treated as criminal until very recently. But the only reason for the difference is an unequal power relationship.

So you don't like it if gay men are open about their sexual preferences? Oh well, now you can imagine what we go through every day of our lives.

Ok... You can relax, dude. I used the word homosexual to show the fact that when a guy tells and shows everybody the details of his sexual life, he indeed is an homosexual. I mean, it's not that hard to understand, is it? It's not because I think about the sexual aspect first, it's because some gay people put it in your face in the firts place!

About the respect part, no, I don't respect everyone because everyone is a human being. I don't respect Hitler. I don't respect the girl at school who tries to ruin other people lives. I don't respect the prostitute who sells her body. And I don't respect gay people who, in fact, don't respect themselves. I respect everyone's rights and responsibilities as human beings, but I don't have to respect THEM ALL just because we share a lot of our genes! I respect my teachers because I know they hope I'll succeed in life and because they know a lot more than me in most domains. I don't respect gay people who think about themselves as sexual objects who need to satisfy of be satisfied. Saying you can respect everyone is absolutely hypocrite.

Finally, it's not that we all have ways of showing our sexual orientation all the time! (Oh, suddenly, you sound like the one considering only the sexual aspect... be careful, it's wrong, man...) Straight people represent about, like, 85-90% of the population, right? Then, it's normal for social and religious events to take place all the time! We get married, we have baby showers and all those things "worthy of being in the newspapers". Those are traditions that were made to show how happy we were, not to show that we indeed are straight since the wife's gonna have baby from the manly me! I don't know where you live, but here, in Canada, you can a a flashy wedding if you want to, adopt a baby (since I'm pretty sure you can't be pregnant yourself) and not be judged by everybody. Oh, and it's quite unfair to say that we all get those things. It's just like me saying that all the gay are alike.

Well, that's all I had to say.

[/\/\usclekid]

Since I accepted my homosexuality four years ago I have increasing loved that I am gay. I wish I came out sooner. I love men and the muscles they build. I can never get enough.

[Hulk2be]

Do I ever get tired of being gay? Oh yes. In fact, its more than getting tired of it, I have gotten tired of it. I knew I was attracted to guys back in high school, but I never felt the need or even the desire to do anything about it. I didn't start dating until I was age 24 (i've never been on a date with a female), because at that time, my absolute best and closest person in the world to me passed away, and for the first time in my life, I was feeling lonely. At age 26, I finally had a date with someone who pushed all the right buttons, and gave me ridiculous thoughts of having found the one, so I came out, with the idea of this person and I spending alot of time together. Well he didn't feel the same way about me, and that one date is all it ended up being. Nonetheless, I was still glad I had finally come out after years of thinking about it.

Well by age 29, I had had enough, and called it quits. I could no longer stand the "its all about sex", "its all about how hot you are" mentality of the gay world. I could no longer stand the guys who stood me up for dates, who never called or anything like they said they would, who would tell you anything you wanted to hear to get the date over with, and then instantly cut all communication and ignore you like you had never even existed.

At age 30, I had a chance encounter with another gay guy, just bumping into him in public one day, and he asked me out. Even though I had taken myself off the market and was no longer looking for dates, I accepted. We ended up dating for a few months, and frankly, it was awful. He mentally treated me like crap, and as I look back with the clarity of hindsight, he only dated me because he was recently out of a relationship and was lonely, and I only dated him because I wanted to know what a boyfriend was like. At the three month mark, I knew it wasn't going to last, and at the six month mark, I finally couldn't take any more, and dumped him. So I did find out what a boyfriend was like, and if he's an example of a boyfriend, then I have no interest in having another one.

Jaded? You bet I am! My experience has been that gays and gay culture doesn't give a crap about the person you are. All they care about is your body, your cock, and your bedroom skills.

I am now 34, and I can't remember with accuracy the last time I had a date, or even the desire to go on one. I have accepted, and even embrace the freedom that my singledom allows. Do I get lonely at times? Of course I do. But I also remember all the s*** I went through trying to meet guys, all the feelings of worthlessness and heartbreak I went through while dating, and my occasional feelings of loneliness are far more preferable to deal with than all the nonsense I went through before.

I'm still not straight, I still don't feel any attraction to women, but I am increasingly feeling like I'm not really gay either any more. More and more, I find myself identifying as asexual, which for those who may not know, is a person without a sexual orientation, or a person without desire to have sex with either gender.

I did a major amount of soul searching after I broke up with the guy I dated for six months, and I came to realize that I am already a whole person, that I don't need a partner to complete me. That if a special someone ever does come along, it would be a compliment, but not a necessity. But most importantly, I realized that a special someone may never come along, and thus I had a choice to make. I could either continue to wait and hope that a special someone would appear one day, and thus then enable me to begin living happily, but remain in misery in the meantime, which could be my entire life....., or I could shift my focus to enjoying myself by myself, to making sure I have a happy life whether or not there is someone else in it, and make the most of all the freedoms that single people have over coupled people.

I've made my choice. I'm having a wonderful time. And I'm not looking back!

[anpuZA]

Good heavens.

Okay, obviously feelings run deep here, so I'll just jump right in with my fire cracker opinion, which I will lovingly title: Little Boy.

I enjoy the company of butch guys, effeminate guys and downright queens because each and every one of them has something unique and wonderful to offer the world. I enjoy the company of str8 (you just can't avoid the fuckers ) people, some of my best friends are str8, oh and for the record... I have met enough str8 people, who also cant get enough informing all and sundry about their sex lives, to know that it's not just something you find exclusively on our side of the field.

I have, thus far, managed to elude the lesbians for the most part and thank god cause that shit just aint natural [and by that I mean that I am kidding... really.]

What I am tired of is purely the scene, the expectations... every str8 woman I meet usually ends up asking "Do you have an interest" (as in a BF)
and when that answer is "No" they all turn into instamatic Queer Dating services. Cause if you're gay and alone there must be something wrong with you. Why's that? Cause we like to fuck everything with three legs, furniture and animals with amputations excluded.

I'm tired of that. Of peoples expectations.

So if being labeled gay means conforming to peoples expectations, then yeah I'm tired of being gay.

But I'll never be tired of being me.

And me love men...

Big strong men

With fuzzy hearts.

[TheMM]

Get tired of being gay?

Yeah...does get a little boring sometimes. Luckily when that happens I can just mozy with the opposite gender for awhile.

[cutlerfan]

As I am still new to admitting to being gay I can't say much as I have no actual experience sexually with either gender. I was basically asexual in college and the thought of sex was a turn off for me simply because all my friends kept wanting me to admit that I would f*ck the next female I found lying naked in my bed. I said I would toss some clothes at her and ask her to leave. This scenario, btw, never happened so it was a moot point anyway. I admit I would like someone to share my life with and that I suspect that I would enjoy gay sex but I am not in an all fired hurry to find out. I seriously doubt that I will have sex in this life and I am fine with that over 99.95 percent of the time. The other horny times are just disruptions to my low sex drive existence. I doubt I will ever 'come out' because I am more than just gay and I doubt that I would ever have an 'I am Fat' or an 'I am a Science Fiction fan' revelation to others so again it is a moot point. I do have admiration for people who decide to 'come out' as it exposes them to a lot of abuse but I have many aspects to my personality and the best way I can celebrate who I am is having a Birthday Party! Peace!

[Yachirobi]

I'm tired of the way the world treats gays--and the way gays often treat each other--but I'm not tired of being gay. Honestly, I don't think I'd even want to be straight. "Normal", yes, but on my terms.

A lot of what you guys have been talking about are the same issues I'm dealing with. There's a lot of self-loathing out there, often disguised, and it's something that hoomophobia has created for us. If the world were more accepting of gay people, I think this topic wouldn't even come up. I don't think were close to it yet but I'm looking forward to the day when being gay isn't a big deal, or any kid of deal at all, but just what it is: one little trait, like any other trait, that goes into making us who we are.

[Stoneman]

Wow, this is a much bigger response than I expected to get. I expected to get more reflexive defensive responses like Geek2Jock's.

I'll say my piece in a day or so, but meanwhile, I just seemed to notice something ? it seems like most of the responses about being tired of being gay were from men who weren't getting any.

Is there anybody out there who is getting a lot of action, and yet still finds themselves getting tired of the mantle?

I didn't really have sex in mind when I asked the question, is all.

And as for RPJ, I've been out for 2 years, and I'm sick of it. I don't think duration has anything to do with it as much as, say, temperament.

[Stoneman]

And I mean isn't it telling in itself that I can ask the question 'Do you ever get tired of being gay?' without having sex in mind, seeing as how some people would argue that gay simply connotes men who want to have sex with men.

[arpeejay]

Stoneman:

I think you've experienced a very narrow slice of gay life.

I was married to a woman for 11 years and I had two kids. I came out because I realized I couldn't keep pretending that I wasn't a gay man.

I had seven wonderful years with my soul mate, Jeremy, until he passed away at age 30 (massive cerebral hemorrhage, no warning...)

As of Monday I've had seven wonderful years with my partner, Naoyuki, and I hope to have many more.

My experience is NOT uncommon. Over the past 17 years I've gotten to know literally thousands of gay men, in person and online, and from what I can tell we're just as happy (or just as miserable) as the average straight person.

A couple of things to keep in mind:

"Gay," ultimately, only means that most of the time your sexual attraction is oriented towards other guys. It doesn't say anything at all about the nature of your relationships, if any. Nor does it say how you talk, how you walk, who you vote for, how you lead your life. You could be celibate -- a lifestyle choice -- and you'd still be "gay."

I hope in the future you will have better luck finding guys who you like and enjoy and who like and enjoy you as well.

All the best...

Richard

[musqlure]

Originally Posted by niko777

Ok... You can relax, dude. I used the word homosexual to show the fact that when a guy tells and shows everybody the details of his sexual life, he indeed is an homosexual. I mean, it's not that hard to understand, is it? It's not because I think about the sexual aspect first, it's because some gay people put it in your face in the firts place!

About the respect part, no, I don't respect everyone because everyone is a human being. I don't respect Hitler. I don't respect the girl at school who tries to ruin other people lives. I don't respect the prostitute who sells her body. And I don't respect gay people who, in fact, don't respect themselves. I respect everyone's rights and responsibilities as human beings, but I don't have to respect THEM ALL just because we share a lot of our genes! I respect my teachers because I know they hope I'll succeed in life and because they know a lot more than me in most domains. I don't respect gay people who think about themselves as sexual objects who need to satisfy of be satisfied. Saying you can respect everyone is absolutely hypocrite.

Finally, it's not that we all have ways of showing our sexual orientation all the time! (Oh, suddenly, you sound like the one considering only the sexual aspect... be careful, it's wrong, man...) Straight people represent about, like, 85-90% of the population, right? Then, it's normal for social and religious events to take place all the time! We get married, we have baby showers and all those things "worthy of being in the newspapers". Those are traditions that were made to show how happy we were, not to show that we indeed are straight since the wife's gonna have baby from the manly me! I don't know where you live, but here, in Canada, you can a a flashy wedding if you want to, adopt a baby (since I'm pretty sure you can't be pregnant yourself) and not be judged by everybody. Oh, and it's quite unfair to say that we all get those things. It's just like me saying that all the gay are alike.

Well, that's all I had to say.

(Sigh)

I suppose that it was maybe too much to expect a straight guy to understand this. You are so used to your own privileges that you don't even realize that they are, in fact, privileges. Gay men who express themselves sexually are putting their sexuality in your face, while the myriad rituals that celebrate heterosexuality are just traditions made to show how happy you are. I see.

Guess it must be nice to be the one who has the power to make the decisions about which kind of behavior is appropriate and which kind is offensive.

[niko777]

Originally Posted by musqlure

(Sigh)

I suppose that it was maybe too much to expect a straight guy to understand this. You are so used to your own privileges that you don't even realize that they are, in fact, privileges. Gay men who express themselves sexually are putting their sexuality in your face, while the myriad rituals that celebrate heterosexuality are just traditions made to show how happy you are. I see.

Guess it must be nice to be the one who has the power to make the decisions about which kind of behavior is appropriate and which kind is offensive.

You must have been through some tough times. I won't try to convince you that I can understand you, it's useless, after all, I am just a drop in the sea of straights, while you are a priceless and marvelous part of the lake of gays. Don't you realize that straight men can be as miserable as gay men? I mean, go out of your own "poor little victim of mean life" thing for a second and you'll see that most straight guys don't know what defines them, where their lives are heading and are lost in a world where they have to do what society asks of them. There's a comedian here, in Canada, who said something like that: "I don't understand gay people. It took us, straights, about 50 years to get rid of marriage as an obligation and be happy, and there they come, wanting to make the same mistakes we did! WTF?!?!". It made me laugh my pants off.

If you just want to show the world how sexual you are, attract attention like a magnet and put the fact that you're gay in your resum?, go ahead, I don't give a /$%?. If it helps you feel more accomplished, then do it. But don't come telling me I'm engrossed in my own privileges, because you don't know me, and stop acting like a victim by thinking straight guys can't understand you, because you're acting exactly like all the straights who judge without knowing. How ironic.

[helliot]

So far it looks like those who say they are tired of being gay are really tired of the gay dating scene. I've been happily attached for 12 years and only step foot in a gay bar or hang out with a predominantly gay group once every month or two. Being gay is a small part of who I am and as such I never "get tired" of it. Forgive me if I'm projecting, but I think stoneman's observation of the singles is correct. If that's true, let's be honest and specific of what we're tired of.

I can say I'm tired of the prejudice and hate and the moral conservatives all up in my business. But if it wasn't that, there'd be some other major social problem bugging me, so I do my part to work for progress and try to make life a happy one.

[Stoneman]

Hey ArPeeJay, thanks for your comment, but I wasn't really looking for a band-aid solution or a sigh and a dismissal. I'd like to open a dialogue here about something that, apparently, is bothering a number of us here.

What prompted this question from me in the first place was not a desire to grouse about my love life.

I am tired of being gay because of the way it complicates an otherwise simple life. I realize this sounds stupid. But it's true. Besides the basics ? the dating pool is reduced to 10% of the gender, persecution on any number of fronts, the government's refusal to grant us basic human rights, the way the media tends to reduce us to little more than cartoon or a punchline, rampant promiscuity and self-loathing within the community, blah blah blah ? I guess what really bugs me is the connotations.

When straight people find out you are gay, they expect you to be a certain way. Often, even if you're not, they can't see you for the conceptions they already possess about gay men. A man where I work was told I was gay, and now, whenever he sees me, he just winks at me. I told one of my friends I cried at the end of a movie, and she laughed and me and said "You are so gay!" It's as if you have to be extra careful to dodge all the sissy traps because they're so damning when you're gay.

It's not much better with gay men. When gay men find out you are gay, they expect you to join 'the community.' They feel free to talk to you with an unearned openness as though now you are automatically friends. A gay man I worked with came up to me after we had gone on a trip to a public swimming pool and said "Wasn't it hard to be in that locker room?" as though it made me uncomfortable to be around other naked men in a locker room.

To be perfectly candid, I don't really like any of the gay men I meet. I mean, my entire life, before I came out, since I came out, I haven't liked maybe 90% of the gay men I met just in terms of who they were. That's why I had such a hard time coming out ? I didn't want to be associated with them (the exact problem I am facing now as a result of coming out). And not just the ones who swish, even the regular Joe gays, even the gay truck driver who hit on me. I especially resent the ones who hit on me. To be fair, I don't like most people, but even back at school around smart smart homosexuals who shared interests with me, I had trouble relating.

Do you know who inspired me to come out? Steve Carell's character in Little Miss Sunshine. The first gay role model I could find. The only gay role model I have found. A fictitious character played by a straight man in a script by a straight man directed by a straight couple.

I have made it my mission not to discuss my homosexuality with my current roommate. I feel like all it is is another wall that separates me from people.

That's how I'm tired of being gay. Anybody care to further the discussion?

[hulkoutlvr]

Stoneman, I appreciate where you're coming from, totally. People expect me to be a certain way as well. One day, a girl I work with came into my office. She didn't see me (most of the filing cabinets in my records room office are taller than me), but she did see my Wizard of Oz coffee mug sitting on my desk. Not realizing I was in the room, she said to my office mate, "Oh no, do NOT tell me that that little gay boy actually has a Dororthy coffee cup". I stepped out from behind the cabinet, and said in my best smart-ass voice, "I'm sorry, but my Village People lunch box is at home today; it was dirty!"

I get shit like that all the time. I don't think of everything I do as "gay" or "straight"; it's just what I do, whether I'm changing a tire, singing redneck karaoke with cowboys, or knitting a scarf. Most people, however, think of everything I do as a "gay" thing.

I get tired of people thinking that because I'm gay, it defines my entire life. And to all the musclemen in here who are getting some, let me say this. I know most of you think that those of us who say we're tired of being gay are saying so because we aren't getting any and we're bitter. I have not been laid in almost three years. But I'm not saying this because of that. I'm saying I get "tired" of being gay because all of the teasing and the ribbing and the back handed insults get old after a while. And it's hard being the "cute little gay guy" all the time. People often think of me as another Jack McFarland (from Will and Grace") or Truman Capote. I'm the one who gets called to entertain at cocktail parties, because I have the ability to be witting and charming and make people laugh. But after a while, people begin to think that's all you are, just "the cute little gay guy". They have little interest in knowing me, the man, the man who gets lonely, the man who gets scared, the man who would sometimes like to simply have someone to share my time or my life with, with or without sex. That's why I get "tired" of being gay. Am I tired of loving or being loved by men? No. Am I tired of all I have to put up with in order to be gay? Yes.

[Mdlftr]

Wow. I don't have "a dog in this fight," but I have to say that I find the discussion here fascinating.

One thing that strikes me is that men on both sides of the gay/straight divide don't really seem to know what it's like on the "other side". [Well, D'oh!]

But seriously, people seem much more focused on what their respective "roles" are, and how that impacts them personally, rather than on what they want, personally. I suppose, from the "ground breaking" perspective, for many on here who may be "the only gay guy in the office" or, "the only gay guy I know," it gets old being the "standard bearer" for everyone's expectations, both liberal ["Oh, you people are JUST wonderful!"] conservative ["Y'all are just choosing to be that way"] and haters ["God hates you"].

I know several gay men, both in the office and as long term friends. They are all pretty matter-of-fact about things ("Yes, I'm partnered") but are pretty staid, low key men. ["I've got to get this done today. Then I have to get home and pick up the house because I've got my partner's family coming for Thanksgiving. He's cooking." Etc. etc.]

I think that the whole public stereotype of gay men as constant partyers will probably die down over time, as being gay becomes much less of a big dramatic "DEAL" and becomes integrated into society.

I would take a bet that once the military revokes "don't ask don't tell" which may come pretty soon, things will start becoming less and less of a big deal. My state, MD, just announced today that it will recognize same-sex marriages from other jurisdictions. How cool is that?

Mdlftr

[musqlure]

Originally Posted by niko777

You must have been through some tough times. I won't try to convince you that I can understand you, it's useless, after all, I am just a drop in the sea of straights, while you are a priceless and marvelous part of the lake of gays. Don't you realize that straight men can be as miserable as gay men? I mean, go out of your own "poor little victim of mean life" thing for a second and you'll see that most straight guys don't know what defines them, where their lives are heading and are lost in a world where they have to do what society asks of them. There's a comedian here, in Canada, who said something like that: "I don't understand gay people. It took us, straights, about 50 years to get rid of marriage as an obligation and be happy, and there they come, wanting to make the same mistakes we did! WTF?!?!". It made me laugh my pants off.

If you just want to show the world how sexual you are, attract attention like a magnet and put the fact that you're gay in your resum?, go ahead, I don't give a /$%?. If it helps you feel more accomplished, then do it. But don't come telling me I'm engrossed in my own privileges, because you don't know me, and stop acting like a victim by thinking straight guys can't understand you, because you're acting exactly like all the straights who judge without knowing. How ironic.

Oh, the victim accusation. I suppose it was only a matter of time before that one was brought up. We've already heard the refrain about gay men being hypersexual, so we might as well move on to the next stereotype.

Contrary to what you appear to believe, I don't view myself as special. I do, however, view myself as equal. And for the record, I'm not expecting you or any straight man to understand me. I'm asking you to understand a situation. It's really fairly simple. By virtue of being in the majority, straight people enjoy privileges that gay people don't. (Similarly, at least in places like America, white people enjoy privileges that black people don't, and men enjoy privileges that women don't.) One consequence of this is that many straight people consider gay people who, say, display affection in public to be "flaunting their sexuality." In contrast, straight couples that do the same thing are considered "normal." Or, as you might put it, just showing how happy they are. Similar acts are viewed and judged differently based upon whether or not the persons involved belong to the majority (i.e., the group with power) or not. If you think my pointing out that reality is claiming some kind of victimhood, well, then I suspect we will simply have to agree to disagree.

As for allegedly judging you without knowing you, I'm responding exclusively to what you've written here, and my comments are directed only toward that. What else you may think, I can't hazard a guess at.

[agreatguy6]

I think I'm a bit younger than most of you, so... I don't have as much experience to back me up, but:

I myself am extremely tired of the "heyyy! I don't know your name, but lets $*(% in the bathroom NOW " scene.
and the "Hey, lets go get wasted and bitch about everything and everyone" scene.
And the guys who walk like they have something firmly planted up their ass who wear nail polish and talk with a lisp they weren't born with and weren't raised with.

Oh, and lets not forget the oversensitive guys who give human beings a bad name, much less gays.

It's the guys that ARE the stereotype that don't want to be acknowledged AS the stereotype that I tire of.

Am I gay? Yep. I'm cool with that. I'm not cool with the fact that non-flaming nice guys are so few and far between that it's ridiculous.
Then again, nice guys period are few and far between, that's why there are so many man-hating women lol.

Honestly, from my personal experience, no one cares if you make out with one another. They'll hate you just like they hate everyone else that participates in PDA. Heck, I hate people that are obnoxious about it, even when I'm with someone.

Something tells me I've... said all this before ._.
anyway.
Yep, that's my opinion. Sorry if I don't reply to any arguments you may have, i don't check this board often ><

[Syphon]

I'm tired of being attracted to guys who would be completely repulsed by my interest in them. I'm tired of how fucking difficult it is to find an actual nice guy who is not a flamming limp wristed faggot. I'm tired of hiding who I am from my family and many of my friends. I hate all the emotional trauma, self loathing, depression, guilt, and anxiety society has caused me, simply for the gender I cannot help but be attracted too. It took a very special guy to help me to come to terms with being gay, and I'm pretty sure that if he never came into my life, I'd still be a repressed angry, depressed, bitter fuck, or have committed suicide by now.

As for the gay scene and gay culture... not my thing. I have no desire to associate with people who live their lives like 16 year old girls, trying to find the perfect boyfriend, basing relationships or even their whole lives solely on sex, looks, dick size, top/bottom, money, and completely superficial bullshit. I have enough of my own self esteem issues already without having to deal with a culture that will only make me feel worse about myself, when the dominant culture is doing a fine job of it already. D:

But to be honest, I am very glad to be gay. I'm so glad I will never have to deal with a woman and her bullshit and bleeding gash and menopause. Men are so sexy, I cannot imagine being straight. I'm glad I'm 20, and I have a whole life ahead of me haha. I just really hope I'm lucky and find an amazing guy, and not end up a lonely bitter old homo. I can't believe I actually used to wish I could be a normal straight guy... I'm an awesome person the way I am and I think any guy would be damn lucky to have me.

As for being stereotyped and such... At this point, my sexuality is not a closely guarded secret - other than to family - so if someone asks I'll tell. But I don't want to become 'that gay friend' or treated differently because all of a sudden I'm a homo. It's not something I care to advertise to everyone in my life, and it really is none of their business who gives me a boner anyway. Being stereotyped and treated as less than a man would be taxing, but I haven't had to deal with that since I've only come out to the friends I know won't judge me in that way. Besides, there is so much more to me as a person than my sexual preferences.

[hulkoutlvr]

Syphon you deserve a standing ovation for that response. Whomever the guy that helped you is, you were so fortunate to have found him. You have an attitude of maturity about life at age 20 that most men dont have until they reach their 40's. Bravo.

Like you, I too have been made to feel horrible about myself buy "gay culture" because I'm not tall, not good looking, don't have the six pack abs, the money, the huge cock, or any of the other things good gays are expected to have. No matter that I may have intelligence, charm, sensitivity, wit and talent. Apparently those things don't matter to gay men.

As a result of these types of things, I never go anywhere but work and the grocery store anymore. I call it being "socially retired". When someone asked me why I don't go to the gay bar anymore, I told him, "why would I go there when the gay community has been meaner to me than the straight community"? That's awful to say but it's true.

[niko777]

Originally Posted by musqlure

Oh, the victim accusation. I suppose it was only a matter of time before that one was brought up. We've already heard the refrain about gay men being hypersexual, so we might as well move on to the next stereotype.

Contrary to what you appear to believe, I don't view myself as special. I do, however, view myself as equal. And for the record, I'm not expecting you or any straight man to understand me. I'm asking you to understand a situation. It's really fairly simple. By virtue of being in the majority, straight people enjoy privileges that gay people don't. (Similarly, at least in places like America, white people enjoy privileges that black people don't, and men enjoy privileges that women don't.) One consequence of this is that many straight people consider gay people who, say, display affection in public to be "flaunting their sexuality." In contrast, straight couples that do the same thing are considered "normal." Or, as you might put it, just showing how happy they are. Similar acts are viewed and judged differently based upon whether or not the persons involved belong to the majority (i.e., the group with power) or not. If you think my pointing out that reality is claiming some kind of victimhood, well, then I suspect we will simply have to agree to disagree.

As for allegedly judging you without knowing you, I'm responding exclusively to what you've written here, and my comments are directed only toward that. What else you may think, I can't hazard a guess at.

Huhuhu. The mean straight guy is using a stereotype again. Sorry, dude, but you just sounded like a victim, that's all. And as you may know, sterotypes exist because some people are living stereotypes. Take me, for example. I'm tall, I look quite good, I have dark blonde hair and pale blue eyes. I sing well, draw well, write well (in french, lol!), am a good listener, I cook great meals and desserts, I can repair stuff and am a hard worker. That makes me a "homme ? marier", which means "man to marry". So every single day of my "/$%? life I hear from friends, family and even unrelated people: "So... when will you bring a girl home?", "You must have broken a lot of hearts", "I would like grandchildren, you know, so..."You don't have a girlfriend? I know somebody who would be perfect for you!", etc. EVERY SINGLE DAY OF MY LIFE. You're sad because you are not understood by about 90% of the people on earth? I'm in the same case, man. They can't seem to understand that I no longer wish to have meaningless relations, that I am searching for the woman of my life, my soulmate, my best friend and my lover. You say we have more power since we represent 90% of the population. DUH! But as a certain uncle Ben said: "With great powers come gread responsibilities". Lol! As a straight man, you have to act that way, speak that way and think that way, and if you don't, people start telling you must be a part of the 10%!

Oh, and for your info, I don't know a lot of straight people who show their sexual affection in public. In fact I don't know any. If you were talking about people in clubs or bars or such places, well duh, most people go there to drink and fuck. I don't call bars public places anymore. They're more like semi-private hook-up stations. Lol.

In conclusion, I would say that if there were, let's say, 90 canadians in a room with 10 indians, things would probably go the canadian way, don't you think? Some people would be open to indian culture, others wouldn't. But in fact, it would still go the canadian way. That's how things work. Majority rules.

[Mdlftr]

Originally Posted by drew

Ya know this 10% idea has long since been disproven as propoganda from anti-gay groups usually run be evangelical christian "think tanks".

.

My understanding was that these numbers derive from research done in the 1950s by Masters and Johnson. The research may have been cited by anti-gay groups, but they did not conduct it.

I'm not aware of what more current research indicates as to proportions in the population. I DO know that a biological component for homosexual behavior has been indicated, based on brain studies done in the 1990s and 2000s.

Bottom line: Being gay is not "something people make up". More and more scientific evidence is accumulating to show that it is something people are born with.

[Mdlftr]

The song, "I am what I am" is from the musical version of the French film about a gay couple (one owns a nightclub, his partner is the star of a drag show)called,
"La Cage Aux Folles".

It has been made at least twice without music: the original French version, then an American version with Robin Williams. (Williams put his own hyper, funny spin on the show).
The musical is a 3rd version of the film.

History:
At the time it came out, "I am what I am" was "yet another" "gay anthem". [To go with all the others:
"Empty Chairs at empty tables" Les Miserables

Anything by Judy Garland

Etc.
Etc.

[Syphon]

Originally Posted by hulkoutlvr

Syphon you deserve a standing ovation for that response. Whomever the guy that helped you is, you were so fortunate to have found him. You have an attitude of maturity about life at age 20 that most men dont have until they reach their 40's. Bravo.

Like you, I too have been made to feel horrible about myself buy "gay culture" because I'm not tall, not good looking, don't have the six pack abs, the money, the huge cock, or any of the other things good gays are expected to have. No matter that I may have intelligence, charm, sensitivity, wit and talent. Apparently those things don't matter to gay men.

As a result of these types of things, I never go anywhere but work and the grocery store anymore. I call it being "socially retired". When someone asked me why I don't go to the gay bar anymore, I told him, "why would I go there when the gay community has been meaner to me than the straight community"? That's awful to say but it's true.

Hehe, that's nice of you to say. ^.^ Yeah, I was extremely fortunate, he changed my life in many ways, right when I needed it most too.

Ehh yeah, I have no desire to ever step foot in a gay bar. I'm fairly certain what I'm looking for cannot be found in one of those. Although I don't have much experience with the gay community, it seems to me like it is much less accepting of diversity than contemporary western culture, which is rather ironic. It's not like one can even conform to be accepted in gay culture either because the requirements generally aren't aspects one can change, or they're difficult to change. You're either have a big cock or you don't, you have a certain body type, facial features, height, etc. You can't easily change your income or lifestyle either. =/

I wouldn't say that intelligence and traits other than good looks don't matter to gay men. Correct me if I'm wrong (again, I don't have years of experience with the scene, or dating, or gays in general) Sure, the stereotype depicts a superficial flaming sex obsessed cunt with no soul, but it is easier to walk into a bar and find just that, because that's what the culture seems to demand as a norm. One isn't going to walk into a gay bar and find it filled with good family oriented guys with high IQ's and all those good things because in all likelihood, a guy like that looks for similar values in a partner and knows he isn't going to find it at a bar. I think those kinds of guys are just harder to find because they simply don't associate with the scene. It's a real bitch. But in the end, the non physical traits are what matter most because looks fade.

Kind of off topic, but yeah. :3

[musqlure]

Originally Posted by niko777

Huhuhu. The mean straight guy is using a stereotype again. Sorry, dude, but you just sounded like a victim, that's all. And as you may know, sterotypes exist because some people are living stereotypes. Take me, for example. I'm tall, I look quite good, I have dark blonde hair and pale blue eyes. I sing well, draw well, write well (in french, lol!), am a good listener, I cook great meals and desserts, I can repair stuff and am a hard worker. That makes me a "homme ? marier", which means "man to marry". So every single day of my "/$%? life I hear from friends, family and even unrelated people: "So... when will you bring a girl home?", "You must have broken a lot of hearts", "I would like grandchildren, you know, so..."You don't have a girlfriend? I know somebody who would be perfect for you!", etc. EVERY SINGLE DAY OF MY LIFE. You're sad because you are not understood by about 90% of the people on earth? I'm in the same case, man. They can't seem to understand that I no longer wish to have meaningless relations, that I am searching for the woman of my life, my soulmate, my best friend and my lover. You say we have more power since we represent 90% of the population. DUH! But as a certain uncle Ben said: "With great powers come gread responsibilities". Lol! As a straight man, you have to act that way, speak that way and think that way, and if you don't, people start telling you must be a part of the 10%!

Oh, and for your info, I don't know a lot of straight people who show their sexual affection in public. In fact I don't know any. If you were talking about people in clubs or bars or such places, well duh, most people go there to drink and fuck. I don't call bars public places anymore. They're more like semi-private hook-up stations. Lol.

In conclusion, I would say that if there were, let's say, 90 canadians in a room with 10 indians, things would probably go the canadian way, don't you think? Some people would be open to indian culture, others wouldn't. But in fact, it would still go the canadian way. That's how things work. Majority rules.

It was, indeed, too much to hope for.

[hulkoutlvr]

I'm only one person, and I can only speak from my own experience, but the experience I had tonight in a straight bar is pretty telling.

Straight women (who are supposed to be the allies of gay men for the most part) are, anymore, more homophobic and stereotypical in their behavior toward gay men than straight men. Most straight men (if thstaey are, in fact, truly straight and comfortable with their sexuality) are not aroused, afraid, or hostile toward straight men. Their attitude with me is usually, "hey, that's not my schtick, but if it makes you happy, I think that's great',." They punch my shoulder at redneck karaoke, call me 'buddy', and even ask me if I'm getting any. They usually make me feel like one of the guys, which I am.

Women, on the other hand, are different. Tonight, at karaoke, I was very peacefully trying to sing one of my favorite Eagles songs, "Lyin' Eyes". Nothing gay about it. Suddenly, this straight woman, whom I've turned down for lude proposals in the past, comes up to the sstage while I'm trying to sing and starts unbuttoning my shirt and even tries to tear my shirt off while I'm concentrating on giving the best performance I can. It was embarrasing, and quite frankly, sickening to me. Be it a man or a woman, if I don't want to be touched, don't touch me.

Women seem to have this attitude with gay men. They either think we're an accessory, like their favorite purse, and call us "poodle" (which I hate), or they treat us like the surrogate boyfriend who has to put in all the work of a 'real man' as they call it (like taking them out when they're dateless) without the sexual priviledges. Or they treat us like objects, thinking it's okay to bump and grind all over us when they're horny because, well, hey, it's not going to turn him on so it must be okay to touch him. . .

I am no one's toy, I don't care if it's a man or a woman. I've turned down men for sex; I've turned down women. When I'm there to sing and enjoy other people's singing, I'm not thinking about sexual conquests. Sometimes I just want to be left alone. A lot of women think it's okay to push themselves on a gay man, thinking that if we just got naked with the right woman, it would change us.

Oh, and another thing, a straight woman asked me tonight if I thought her new boyfriend might be gay because he asked her to put on a strap on and give him anal sex. I don't like that either. I'm not a straight woman's Dr. Ruth. I'm not her best girlfriend, and I'm not the surrogate husband. I am her friend if I'm anything. I should be treated as a man, nothing less. Albeit, I am a man who likes sleeping with other men, but as Brad Paisley said, "I've still got a pair; believe me, I'm still a guy."

Has anyone else had similar experiences with straight women?

[niko777]

Lol! That's quite a bad experience! Women can be really stupid and behave like total idiots, sometimes. I remember that, in highshool, many girls wanted to date me and I didn't. I wanted to have good grades (which I got) and concentrate on my studies. Well, they started spreading rumors about the fact that I was gay because I didn't want to date them, because I was good at school and because I didn't like hockey or football that much. For a time, that made my life a living hell, because girls would always ask me if I were really gay (I hated it) and guys would laugh at me because they were jealous of the fact I was getting attention and not them! I even lost friends because they were like "Why did you turn down this girl? I can't even get a date and you turn down many girls just like that! You asshole!". When girls become women, most don't really change or become a lot worse in their moronic behavior. Lol. But hey, I love them anyways. I'm sorry to hear you had this bad experience with straight women.