Low Testosterone

[Stoneman]

Anybody have any experience with it?

[mewletter]

Testosterone level goes in a cycle... Some more, what's define 'low testosterone' level? We men do experience gradual decrease in it due to aging. I highly doubt anyone who is 50-years-old had the same level as he was 30 years ago without going through some form of therapy.

[Stoneman]

Well I'm 24, and mine was below 300. So I'm asking if anyone else has had experience with low testosterone levels and treatment and living with low testosterone and trying to bodybuild with low testosterone.

[Loco]

Yes, I had low testosterone, and I think it had to do with myself being depressed. After I started working out very heavily, it seemed to get better. I believe doing squats with heavy weights is very important to increasing testosterone. I started putting more focus on squats, and I noticed my facial hair is growing faster. The side effect is that I seem to be more easily aroused.

[inflated]

Squat heavy and with good form will naturally increase your testosterone levels, so will eating a higher protein diet.

[Stoneman]

I already do both of those!

[BIGJOEY]

How do you know yours was below 300?

[Stoneman]

I got a blood test. I need to do some more when I have more money.

[BIGJOEY]

unless the blood work covered, T-3,T-4 estrogen, estrodial, cortisol, free test the number is usless.

[Stoneman]

You are not helpful.

At any rate, my baseline testosterone levels came back low. Does anyone else have experience with low testosterone levels and treatment and living with low testosterone and trying to bodybuild with low testosterone?

[FuzzyKB]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

You are not helpful.

At any rate, my baseline testosterone levels came back low. Does anyone else have experience with low testosterone levels and treatment and living with low testosterone and trying to bodybuild with low testosterone?

[COLOR="DarkOrange"]

I became aware that my own testosterone levels were lower than they should have been back in 2001. The main symptom I suffered from at that time was depression. Of course organized medicine thinks that anti-depressants are the answer to everything. There was some improvement but it was not significant. The best way that I could describe the effect of the anti-depressants was not that it fixed the depression but it instead simply made me not care that I was depressed. There was zero improvement in my energy levels and though I had suffered from minor ED for some time it had progressively gotten far worse.

I finally avoided my HMO MD because in all honesty he was not working for me, he was working to save the HMO money. I had tried to get several things addressed for years. One of my friends and a former associate of my late Stepfather was also an MD and Urologist. He did a "poke" and a rather large blood draw. What he checked me for were Serum and Free Floating Testosterone, DHT, Estrogen, FSH, and Prolactin. Serum and Free Floating were barely above minimums and DHT was in the cellar. Estrogen and Prolactin were elevated. At the same time I was going through an extremely stressful time in my life. He gave me very low dosage HGH, Testosterone injectable and a prolactin antagonist. I was to be on it for 90 days to see what happened. Every 90 days I get a course of HGC shots to keep my own production doing the best that it can and to prevent testicular atrophy and shut down. In fact, my testicular size was already above average, but I think that the HGC added a little more. Within 3 days of starting the initial treatment which was injections I felt a great deal better the depression was just "GONE". By 60 days I had improvements in muscle tone and weight management with zero exercise and my love life was vastly improved. He wanted me off these after the 90 days and then monitored me at about 90 day intervals for about a year. In March of last year he placed me on an initial hormone replacement cream. He wanted me on that for one year and then wanted to run some baseline tests again including another PSA. The plan is to change me over to a different testosterone formula early next year and at that time I may be basically on probably a DHT based replacement, an anti-estrogen and an anti-prolactin. The HGH was only for the original 90 days and because of the stress.

This year we have maintained my Testosterone level in the 600-800 range and it has helped me a great deal, but the DHT levels are still lower than what he wants to see and that is the reasons for the change.

You need testosterone replacement period, but replacement has to be tailored for your specific needs. We will test me again in late February and it will be then that we decide the exact formulation of the testosterone replacement and if it should be a combination or not.

The hard and expensive part is the diagnostics and getting all the information you need. Once that is done, the maintenance is not all that difficult and not all that expensive. My HMO is worthless on this and I pay for that out of pocket. I shopped it and it comes out relatively inexpensive with the exception of the prolactin antagonist. That crap is nearly $50 per pill. The good part is that I take one pill per week divided in half and that is all. I have no family history in the blood line of adenocarcinoma cancer and if you get replacement you need to have PSA's at least on a yearly basis. You also need to have HGC injections at regular intervals to prevent testicular atrophy and other problems.

There are many problems with treating sub-normal androgen levels in men. The biggest problem is that lack of standardization as to what one lab versus another thinks is subnormal. Look for a lab that states your level below 300 as sub normal. That is what the FDA will go by and your MD can then prescrible replacement for you. The real problem is finding an MD that knows what the hell he is doing on this one. Very few do and I have been lucky.

By the way, before replacement exercise resulted in an abnormal level of soreness and not a great deal of development. After replacement I actually look forward to pumping some iron and I am now 58 years old. The other thing is that with the Glutamine and BCAA my post workout recovery soreness is barely noticeable where the effectiveness of this was far lower pre-HRT.

The main things that I would say I experienced from it pre HRT were a weird depression which did not respond well to anti-depressants. I had a lousy love life. Contrary to belief, the desire was there the capability wasn't and this added to my stress levels. My energy levels were abnormally low.
Exercise produced more soreness than it should have and development from the exercise was very poor. After replacement that had very major changes.
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[Stoneman]

Thanks Fuzzy. That was very informative. I am pretty depressed at the moment, but not very well insured. So far I have paid $600 out of pocket just to get this bloodwork and consultations done. On January I can get on my parents' insurance, and then start having tests done again after that, and then maybe something can be done about it after that. I don't know what to do in the meantime.

[Chi-town]

I too have low testosterone (barely above 300) and have dealt with low-level depression all my life.

I tried tribulus once and it got my test to just above 400. You can say "25% increase!" but more accurately I'd say "Still really low!" Can't say I felt any different and it's expensive.

What I've been doing this year is supplementing with zinc and vitamin c, both of which are believed to help with test production. I had looked at ZMA, but the local GNC guy said zinc alone is also good. What I can say is, my libido is much better than it has been for the past few years (I think my partner would agree ). I haven't had my levels tested in a while, so I can't quantify whether it's worth you trying, but it's certainly a less expensive option than tribulus.

What has been constant all these years is, I work out 4-5 days a week, row crew, and supplement with whey/creatine/glutamine shakes. And I'm 25 quality pounds heavier than I was years ago. So don't let this chemical problem discourage you.

Like I said, take all of this with a grain of salt, 'cuz no one in this story is a trained professional

[FuzzyKB]

Originally Posted by Stoneman

Thanks Fuzzy. That was very informative. I am pretty depressed at the moment, but not very well insured. So far I have paid $600 out of pocket just to get this bloodwork and consultations done. On January I can get on my parents' insurance, and then start having tests done again after that, and then maybe something can be done about it after that. I don't know what to do in the meantime.

[COLOR="Wheat"]
Stoneman, when you have some time go ahead and PM me. There is a great deal of information you need and a number of things you can do while you are in a holding pattern. There are also some things that you do not want to do simply because you could artificially raise testosterone levels just enough to disqualify yourself from having it replaced the right way. In fact, in the short term the lower it is the better off you are. As crazy as that sounds the biggest problem is that you could without intention sacrifice the long term for the short term and you definitely do not want to do that one.

The best thing is to initially begin to make plans and begin to shift some gears in some other ways that will also prepare you for hitting the iron as the replacement takes place. If you are a beginner this is a process not an instant thing.

Will look forward to hearing from you when you have the time. [/COLOR]