Please Stop Posting Underage Stories!

[Otaru_grower]

I think, if anything, it will be far less confusing in stories that might be trying to obfuscate something.

I mean, if you have a character that is 6'4" and 300 lbs, and you say he's ten or something, my mind will not be able to compute that. It just doesn't make the connection. It doesn't make sense from a purely story standpoint, and if a character is that big, I'm going to picture an adult face. I think it's interesting that the stories where the muscle kid thing is taking place...you don't see the faces of boys described, which I think is an interesting attempt to avoid what the story is really trying to accomplish, which is questionable.

I dunno. I'm a huge fan of Tom Hanks in Big. That movie pretty much encapsulated so much about masculinity and adulthood and innocence to me, and the sex scene between Tom Hanks and Elizabeth Perkins was brief but definitely a part of the story line. But if they had used a 13 year old boy, you can bet it never would have seen the light of day.

I think you can see where I'm going with this...

Anyway, I never told Flexodus how wonderful his site is, and it's his to do with how he pleases. So to flexodus, please keep doing what you do, and many many thanks for the years this site has been up. I for one really appreciate it.

[Ogun]

Amen. Now let's see if we can put the fuss behind us.

[cloud19]

That's right. I wish more writers would write stories with mature characters. I like mature, older stories, with osos and stuff. Besides i didn't even enjoy high school. Why go back to the worst time in your life when you are FREEEE? But, the boy story fans should be given an alternative site to post their stuff, too. That would be more fair.

I know we should all just ignore what we don't like. That's what i do. But then i'd be ignoring nearly everything.

[ydt81]

Let me just say that people who don't check out the General section are really missing out; Xyggurat I'm very glad that you brought this up b/c on this particular forum, it's somewhat of a gray issue.
Also, call me dorky, but I'm loving how well-spoken a lot of the comments are.
(FleXodus takes the cake; as professional as it gets)

Anyway, I definitely agree with the others that have expressed discomfort/awkward feelings about the recent surge of significantly underage stories. In fact, I'm glad that a few people have finally explained my confusing reactions to these stories: although I'm not at all into the young subjects of these fantasies, many of these writers tend to be a lot better than most. It's an unfortunate trend, in that I find myself constantly bumping into qualms over what I'm reading. In the end, though the qualms have won. If I want better stories, maybe I'll try writing something myself.

The only other thing I wanted to point out was the lingering assumption that most people seem to have about readers' ages. From what I gather, I'd say that a lot of the people who are appalled by the teenage/late high school stories are 20ish years older than these protagonist; their distaste is understandable...

But for those readers who are in the middle of college, stories about muscled guys even as young as 16, don't really seem strange. These days when it comes to reading, I'm just moving along with my general age group (and older); the idea of being the 67-year-old dancing in the college town's bar just doesn't appeal to me. = /

To be honest, when I first stumbled across one of the stories on this forum--before even getting an account--I wasn't actually of age. As I became acquainted with my sexuality over the years, this site was an interesting base to return to. (However, I'm not suggesting that underage users breach the forum's descriptions; just pointing out that it is legally, an unfortunate reality).

To FleXodus (and any of the other pioneers that have roughed it out since the beginning): You've built something very distinct here; to date, I haven't seen anything else quite like it (not that I've really been looking...)
Needless to say, I support whatever adjustments the forum needs to stay appropriate and afloat-- 'freedom of speech' or not.

Just as any good author stays true to what they have in mind for their story, you should stick to your vision for the site-- regardless of who decides to leave.

[fleXodus]

Originally Posted by GoldfishBW

I respect the moderator's decision to do what he wants with his board. But I never knew there were so many closed-minded people on this site. What I'm getting from this discussion is that it's OK to jerk off to stories of adults getting big muscles, and it's even OK to jerk off to stories of teenagers getting big muscles, but there's some certain magical age limit where it stops being OK and makes you a pervert who needs professional help. I don't understand why people don't just read the stories they find appealing, and ignore the ones they don't. That's what I've been doing for the several years I've been reading this site. There are many stories that don't "do it for me" for various reasons, so I don't read them and move on to the next. Not sure why everyone else can't do the same. I certainly wouldn't try to get the stories I didn't like removed from the site, and I wouldn't judge people who got off on stories that I didn't. Face it, there's a large percentage of the general population out there who would think this whole site is inappropriate and filled with perverts. Trying to regulate the level of perversion seems silly.

I know based on the comments in this thread that I'm in the minority but I feel like it had to be said. I appreciate the moderator's time and effort in keeping a site like this running, and I'll still read the stories here, but I can't help but feel that we will be missing some pretty awesome stories (at least some of us would think they're awesome).

-Brad

Just to state again, I had concerns in allowing the site to be dominated by this influx of underage stories, as well as having to deal with any unwanted attention (read: trouble) arising from it. If it's tantamount to being "closed-minded" in order to protect this site then so be it. As to the "magical age" limit you mention: I didn't impose any hard-line age limit for a reason. Aside from age, the other deciding factors would be related to how the character is portrayed as well as the emphasis of the story ("fixation" on extreme young age is a term I've mentioned multiple times to describe the stories in question). I think for the vast majority of writers, these new guidelines would not be a creative constraint at all. In any case, in the end it's up to myself and moderators to make this judgment call. It may be imperfect, but I prefer this than doing nothing and allowing the site to trend towards a growing quantity of material that even I don't even find personally appealing, and at worst one that could put this entire site and its users at risk.

You have no responsibilities related to running this website, so be thankful you don't have to make any decisions like this and be in a position where you know you cannot possibly please everybody. Again, if you feel you'll be sorely missing out on "awesome stories" because they don't fixate on underage characters then I'm sure you can find other sites on your own that do.

[fleXodus]

Originally Posted by cloud19

The boy story fans should be given an alternative site to post their stuff, too. That would be more fair.

So you're saying I should be more fair and create another site just so they can post their stories?

Anyone have an Aleve?

[mattbarradell]

OK different site would be silly, maybe a seperate section? I know it'd be work but if people want to be able to differentiate between adult and youth maybe put a subfolder in the Post You Stories section (like the Searching For A Story bit?) just for those kind of stories. Then anyone who isn't interested in non adult growth can post there?

I know it may seem a little odd but it'd keep both parties (those for and against) relatively happy?

[hungreed]

The official restrictions added to the hyper criticism of writing style, content, and grammar is causing this site to lose a lot of it's former steam.

[Daisuke]

Would it be possible to have a separate "story check" thread, so writers of pre-existing stories can ask mods if it's okay to continue them? They could include the links, and a brief description of where the element in question is going in the story arc. This would come with the understanding that the writer risks all installments of said story being deleted, of course, and that the writer wouldn't argue the mod's decision.

It wouldn't have to apply to just underage stories. Writers could ask about any story that might not fit with overall direction of the site.

[nvb2]

I agree with Ogun that the topic has gone on long enough, but I'd like to be hypocritical long enough to state something that I don't think I saw anyone else mention (though admittedly I started skimming near the end so maybe I missed it.)

I saw a lot of replies about limiting an author's creativity and subject matter. Authors can still write about these things, Flex is just respectfully asking that they not be posted here. As many have already mentioned, Flex has provided the forums at no cost to us, but at cost to him, and I don't see why his simple request has blown up into such heartache.

There are many other places on the Internet that these stories can find a home. Authors have their stories posted on multiple sites all the time and still can. It just takes a little bit of asking oneself, "Where is this story most appropriate?" I recently did so (a few months ago) with a new story where I didn't feel this was the appropriate forum for it, though it did involve muscle growth. I don't really see the need for the attitude of "If not all of my stories can be posted here then none of mine will be."

[rextorres]

Originally Posted by fleXodus

So you're saying I should be more fair and create another site just so they can post their stories?

Anyone have an Aleve?

Don't worry, fleXodus. There will be another muscle growth forum on the web, soon...

[Eudaemon]

Originally Posted by fleXodus

Just to state again, I had concerns in allowing the site to be dominated by this influx of underage stories, as well as having to deal with any unwanted attention (read: trouble) arising from it. If it's tantamount to being "closed-minded" in order to protect this site then so be it. As to the "magical age" limit you mention: I didn't impose any hard-line age limit for a reason. Aside from age, the other deciding factors would be related to how the character is portrayed as well as the emphasis of the story ("fixation" on extreme young age is a term I've mentioned multiple times to describe the stories in question). I think for the vast majority of writers, these new guidelines would not be a creative constraint at all. In any case, in the end it's up to myself and moderators to make this judgment call. It may be imperfect, but I prefer this than doing nothing and allowing the site to trend towards a growing quantity of material that even I don't even find personally appealing, and at worst one that could put this entire site and its users at risk.

You have no responsibilities related to running this website, so be thankful you don't have to make any decisions like this and be in a position where you know you cannot possibly please everybody. Again, if you feel you'll be sorely missing out on "awesome stories" because they don't fixate on underage characters then I'm sure you can find other sites on your own that do.

I agree with this. While obviously he doesn't want to tell people what stories to post and what not to post, obviously a story about say, two 14 year olds having sex with no muscle growth of any kind would simply be inappropiate, and could have legal repercussions.

I mean, just adjust the age of your characters to 16+ and their behaviour to be not so... child-like. And if your story absolutely 100% revolves around them being at a young age and acting that way and having an undeveloped body, well clearly it's not appropiate.

Also, I don't post often (or ever), but I'd like to take this opportunity to thank fleXodus for maintaining and running this site.

[iceman75]

Originally Posted by Eudaemon

I agree with this. While obviously he doesn't want to tell people what stories to post and what not to post, obviously a story about say, two 14 year olds having sex with no muscle growth of any kind would simply be inappropiate, and could have legal repercussions.

I mean, just adjust the age of your characters to 16+ and their behaviour to be not so... child-like. And if your story absolutely 100% revolves around them being at a young age and acting that way and having an undeveloped body, well clearly it's not appropiate.

Also, I don't post often (or ever), but I'd like to take this opportunity to thank fleXodus for maintaining and running this site.

I gotta disagree with you there, alot of the stories that came under this umbrella had significant muscle growth and the characters were very mature for their age, most of the time. I don't mean to say that these stories shouldn't have been banned, because I know it's a dead issue, flexodus has made up his mind and nothing I could say would change his mind. I am not going to leave the site, I want to make that clear, I encourage people to write muscle stories with adult characters, I always have. I am likely though, to keep writing these stories and find other places to keep reading them, I will take the risks that may entail, if any.

[Sacsteve]

This is long overdue. The Feds have made kiddie porn prosecutions based on computer generated sexual images of children. This is playing with fire. When removing questionable stories with under age characters, err on the side of caution and get rid of them.

Even though I'm into the whole Boy Muscle thing I agree With Sacsteve and Flexodus

Personally I feel that its Flexodus Website, and he should decide what kinda of content is on it. Because if the shit hits the fan, the blame is all on him, end of story. You guys won't get hit at all, which gives you even more reasons to think with your dick. There are plenty of websites out there to post boy muscle fantasies - I have seen them. This isn't about freedom of speech anymore or what ever, its about whether or not you wanna possibly fuck up somebody's life. Some stupid fetish isn't worth that

[umlerian49]

I have to put in my $.02 worth and say that the underage stories make me uncomfortable. I think it imposes a significant liability on all involved, especially the moderator, when there is any suggestion that this is anything other than an adult forum.

[iluvmassivemusl]

I am on the side that don't like the whole young children concept, but some of those stories i actually like, Kid Muscle is one of my favorites, but yes it has a kid in it, but i just imagine him a man, That's all i need to do and later on, he becomes a man anyway.

Anyway, my point,

This site is like a Grocery store,
it has aisles
if you dont like an aisle, dont go into it
if you dont like the store, find another

I am not defending pedophilia but dammit a writer put his work on this site for people to read, enjoy, and maybe critique not create a controversy that needed four pages worth of people either saying this is just sick, or people are trying to defend him.

There was one story I will never forget, A boy grew muscle, beat his dad, then shoved a baseball bat up his ass and squeezed until it was splinters, now that was sick, but there was no controversy and I happen to like most of this writers work Just not this one.

Moral of this story, GET OVER IT!

[umlerian49]

I'd just like to point out that compared to what I've seen on other forums on other topics, this is a remarkably civilized discussion. Everyone by and large seems to be taking other's points of view seriously and respectfully and avoiding (pardon the expression) flaming.

Thanks to Flex for this oasis.

[Slevin]

A child pornography conviction carries a sentence of up to 10 years, fines and that is on the first offense. I know of no cases that have been on the subject of sex related stories but it would not be difficult to draw a conclusion that they can be used for the same purposes as child pornographic images (which the law directly defines).

This is a good site, but I wouldn't expect the administrators to go to bat against a suit from the federal or state government on this.

[Lover_Boy]

There are a lot of fine lines here. And how a story is viewed is determined by which side of these lines it stands on. Here are my thoughts on the subject:

Q: Is it okay to write a story about a young child from age 10 to 15 suddenly growing massively muscular and powerful, getting taller, etc.?
A: Yes

Q: Is it okay to graphically describe the young child's naked genitalia...?
A: No

Q: Is it okay to write about a young child age 10 to 15 having sexual intercourse with an adult (person age 18 or older)?
A: No

Q: Is it okay to write about a young child age 10 to 15 being orally pleasured by an adult?
A: No

Q: Is it okay to write about a young child age 10 to 15 orally pleasuring an adult?
A: No

Q: Is it okay to write about a young child age 10 to 15 being orally pleasured by another child of the same age group?
A: No

Q: Is it okay to write about a young child age 10 to 15 orally pleasuring another child of the same age group?
A: No

Q: Is it okay to write about a young child age 10 to 15, having gone through above stated physical transformation, flexing, posing, showing of muscular physique, etc. while clothed in some manner?
A: Yes

Q: Is it okay to write about a young child age 10 to 15 having gone through above stated physical transformation, flexing, posing, showing off muscular physique, etc. in the nude?
A: No

Q: Is it okay to write about a young child age 10 to 15 masturbating?
A: No

Q: Is it okay to write about a young child age 10 to 15 growing so tall/muscular etc. that their physique/body can no longer be physically contained by their clothes?
A: Yes

Q: Is it then okay to write about said child physically "hulking out" or growing so tall and muscular etc. that they do in fact outgrow, and tear, rupture, or burst out of their clothing?
A: Yes

Q: Is it okay to write this happening to the point where the child is completely nude?
A: No

Q: Is it okay to write about the genitalia ("package", "bulge", "basket", etc.) of a young male child 10 to 15 increasing in size?
A: Yes

Q: Is it okay to write about the genitalia ("package", "bulge", "basket", etc.) of a young male child age 10 to 15 increasing in size to the point that it can no longer be physically contained by his clothing and thus bursting or tearing out of or through said clothing?
A: Yes (but only if it still covered by underwear, clothing remnants, bathing suit, etc.)

This is only my point of view. Basically it comes down to this. There should be no complete nudity of children in a story; no graphic/detailed description of young children's naked private parts. Any such content could be viewed as child pornography, and draw undesired attention to this forum, however misunderstood the attention may be.

Ciao,

L_B

[Sacsteve]

I think you may be wrong on the last three, and I have no idea why the moderators would want to take the chance on finding out.

[bigbob111]

Has anyone ever heard of these people?

YouTube- Perverted Justice Before Dateline

TRUST ME, you do not want these types "cyber patrolling" this site, and considering this recent public service announcement, Im not suprised if they were already doing so. Just as a further note, I have reason to suspect that some of the members here are significantly younger than what their profile says . If you can help it, WHAT HAPPENS ON THE INTERNET STAYS ON THE INTERNET just dont let is spill into reality OK?

[The Pecman]

Originally Posted by Otaru_grower

I dunno. I'm a huge fan of Tom Hanks in Big. That movie pretty much encapsulated so much about masculinity and adulthood and innocence to me, and the sex scene between Tom Hanks and Elizabeth Perkins was brief but definitely a part of the story line. But if they had used a 13 year old boy, you can bet it never would have seen the light of day.

I'm confused. In the film, the kid in Big (played by David Moscow) was supposed to be 12; in real-life, the young actor was 13 at the time the film was being shot, in 1987. I know this only because I worked on the film a little bit, for home video.

I agree, they walked a fine line in the script department. Also, Tom Hanks spent a lot of time with David Moscow in an attempt to learn how to capture his youthful enthusiasm and speaking pattern, and I think that was one of the keys to making the character work.

The toughest part of the film -- one they ultimately decided not to shoot -- was what the boy would explain when he went back home, restored to his 12-year-old appearance. The writers finally decided it was almost impossible to write, so you only see it happen in the distant background as they roll the credits. I think that's all they could have done, and I think it worked, since the film got very good reviews and was very profitable (over $100M).

[Gene]

Originally Posted by ToolShedCub

thank you!

not a fan of kiddie stories and i do have to say that the stories have been rather lame recently

Yep! Dull dull dull, oh god they've been dull.

[FuzzyKB]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]
I personally hate censorship and I thank Flex for being as diplomatic and kind as has already been. In the end as site owner/moderator it is he who can face legal involvement if something goes really wrong. In fact it could be some writers as well, but, this is less likely.

At one time I operated a number of muscle cartoon groups on Yahoo. I finally gave up giving three away to others and simply deleting one that constantly seemed to accumulate art which depicted underaged characters in acts which made even me uncomfortable. There were times I wondered what was in the heads of these individuals because they were even PM'd and still insisted on posting this stuff.

There are easy ways to deal with this in your writing. The only site I have left that has adult content (other than medical) is hmtf. There are times that this has been a royal pain in the rear. I operate that Yahoo Group and I must honestly admit that I am a total dictator as to what is acceptable and what is not.

The transformation of youth is a transformation of contrast. This same thing can be accomplished easily by going into medicine and doing some study. There are at present numerous conditions where a person can reach 18 and never enter puberty. Research, establish your character as of age in writing, give him the medical condition then have fun. There are ways to create the contrast and then be smart you be legal and let the mind of the reader read in what they want to. As long as you do what is right nobody can be held responsible if the character is established as of age.

There are so many ways it is laughable to accomplish this kind of thing that it baffles me why so many seem to have so much trouble with it.

Wordshop does not post here simply because it is difficult to figure out what the rules are at any given time. Some time ago there was a great Yahoo Group called MGS. IT died in a flame war. That flame war caused a mass exodus of all the best writers and many never returned. The group floundered and finally had a slow death. It is now a heaven for straight porn spam.

Rememher that this kind of censorship is necessary for Flex's safety and for yours too. All you have to be is a clever enough writer and you can make the mind of the reader "imagine" what they want and yet you as the writer have said nothing questionable or illegal. [/COLOR]

[The_Pecman]

Originally Posted by FuzzyKB

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]
The transformation of youth is a transformation of contrast. This same thing can be accomplished easily by going into medicine and doing some study. There are at present numerous conditions where a person can reach 18 and never enter puberty. Research, establish your character as of age in writing, give him the medical condition then have fun. There are ways to create the contrast and then be smart you be legal and let the mind of the reader read in what they want to.

The problem as I see it is that different people have different definitions of "legal." That's a slippery slope in terms of what's enforceable, what's pornographic, what's borderline, and what's immoral. Laws also differ country to country -- even state-by-state, in the U.S. -- so what one could do in, say, California might well not be permitted in Utah.

I would never be so bold as to tell somebody what they couldn't write in a story. If it involves 100% fictional characters, then to me, this is a straightforward 1st Amendment issue. My personal preference is against stories with torture and death, and I'm not a fan of adult/youth stories. But I don't personally have a problem with young teenagers having sex with each other, provided the sex is in service of the story (and not vice-versa).

I'm more interested reading stories that express a point of view, push the plot forward in a logical way, make sense, hold my attention, and keep me surprised. To me, all of that is far more important than the relative ages of the characters, but I respect the right of the website owner to make his own rules.

[FuzzyKB]

[COLOR="RoyalBlue"]
He Pec I really am enjoying your present story series and hope to see it going on for a long time. In all honesty I agree with you and this is the reason that Wordshop has not posted here. The only thing that any of the writers can do one way or another is to create the effect without the legal issues and this can only be done by establishing age.

The other problem is that the only way a leader can lead is in fact to take the reins and do so. The only thing I can in fact see doing is to set down some kind of "iron clad rules" and then stick by them.

To me the most important thing is the quality of the story, does it have a plot, does it have an erotic value as to when the transformation takes place, and the thinking, sensations and reactions of not only the transformee, but those witnessing the transformation are all equally important.

I know how I have personally handled this one, and though erotic writing is different for each one of us, I am most concerned about quality. I am, by the way also not a fan of stories that deal with "bullys", torture, death, and I am not comfortable with a great deal of the material that deals with vast age differences either.

When I first entered this community, the first man I started an association and communications with and later became at least on-line friends with was FanTCman/dude. In all honesty, I think that he has a gift in that he could find a way to write about two 80-year-olds and make it very erotic.

I think that as the Supreme Court and the fossils that populate it die off (it seems that you cannot get rid of justices fit for carbon dating any other way) then we may get some clearer heads and more common sense, without the influence of the religious right being so strong.

Until then you're invited to apply at hmtf and enjoy what is there.

[/COLOR]

[The_Pecman]

Originally Posted by FuzzyKB

To me the most important thing is the quality of the story, does it have a plot, does it have an erotic value as to when the transformation takes place, and the thinking, sensations and reactions of not only the transformee, but those witnessing the transformation are all equally important.

Yeah, I agree 100%.

At the same time, I think some reasonable rules by the site's host are understandable. But I've seen cases where this has gotten completely out of hand. One site I know of got a warning from their ISP, and they banned certain kinds of sex for a period of time. About 75% of the authors fled, and eventually the site faded away.

There's a fine line to walk, but I concede it's a decision the site owner ultimately has to make, and the members have to accept.

[Jack of Blades]

It is a difficult argument, I aggree, but I must say that when stories about a guy growing huge muscles, or a guy meeting with another guy who has huge muscles are marginalised and 11, 12 and 13 year old kids raping everyone they can get their hands on being the main focus of the stories, then it becomes not a male muscle growth forum, it's a child porn story site.And if you want to read about bad things happening to kids, I can help out no problem.

I started self harming and trying to commit suicide at 6. Because of bullying, and my problems with dyslexia. I am just beginning with professional help and antidepressants to overcome my depression, self hate and lack of self confidence. And I still occasionally self harm today. Though, I'm glad to say I'm getting better.

One of my closest and dearest friends was sexually abused by his uncle at the age of 14. He has still got severe emotional difficulties resulting from it, and the events of that night haunt him in nightmares and phobias to this day.

Another of my friends had to miss school from the age of 7 'till the age of 13 because his mother was an abusive, violent drunkard who couldn't take care of herself and bullied her husband and sons. He has only recently finally come to terms with the idea that love isn't a lie and a fairy story, and that not all relationships are marked by pain, abuse and neglect. In fact, he now has a girlfriend for the first time. At the age of 19.

These are the reasons I don't like to read stories about young people. Because I've been one. And it wasn't pleasant. And just because in the story the kid turns into a giant muscle monster and becomes a torturing bastard with about as much concern for others as Jack the Ripper doesn't make it any better. It makes it worse.

I agree that not all stories about underage kids are really bad. The Uberteen stories are possibly the most touching, soul searing, rollercoaster riding, inspiring and uplifting stories I have read on here. But the teens in that are treated with some degree of respect.

If one was to put a cut off line, I think I'd agree with 16/17. Possibly 15 if done well, since that's the sort of age people start to explore their bodies and sexuality anyway. So it makes for a better story, as well as a "cleaner" one.

Just my thoughts.

[ottm]

All of this is much ado about nothing, when you realize there is an alternative site for tales about pre-16 year olds: MUSCLE KIDS INC. In fact, the great John D has a multi-part story (Muscle Son) in progress there now (BTW John, eagerly awaiting the next installment).

[ottm]

All of this is much ado about nothing. The underage tales can be posted at MUSCLE KIDS INC; in fact, John D has a tale in progress there now. The 16+ can continue to be posted here. NO PROBLEMA!

[ottm]

Use MUSCLE KIDS INC for tales about pre-16 year olds.

[niko777]

Originally Posted by Jack of Blades

It is a difficult argument, I aggree, but I must say that when stories about a guy growing huge muscles, or a guy meeting with another guy who has huge muscles are marginalised and 11, 12 and 13 year old kids raping everyone they can get their hands on being the main focus of the stories, then it becomes not a male muscle growth forum, it's a child porn story site.And if you want to read about bad things happening to kids, I can help out no problem.

I started self harming and trying to commit suicide at 6. Because of bullying, and my problems with dyslexia. I am just beginning with professional help and antidepressants to overcome my depression, self hate and lack of self confidence. And I still occasionally self harm today. Though, I'm glad to say I'm getting better.

One of my closest and dearest friends was sexually abused by his uncle at the age of 14. He has still got severe emotional difficulties resulting from it, and the events of that night haunt him in nightmares and phobias to this day.

Another of my friends had to miss school from the age of 7 'till the age of 13 because his mother was an abusive, violent drunkard who couldn't take care of herself and bullied her husband and sons. He has only recently finally come to terms with the idea that love isn't a lie and a fairy story, and that not all relationships are marked by pain, abuse and neglect. In fact, he now has a girlfriend for the first time. At the age of 19.

These are the reasons I don't like to read stories about young people. Because I've been one. And it wasn't pleasant. And just because in the story the kid turns into a giant muscle monster and becomes a torturing bastard with about as much concern for others as Jack the Ripper doesn't make it any better. It makes it worse.

I agree that not all stories about underage kids are really bad. The Uberteen stories are possibly the most touching, soul searing, rollercoaster riding, inspiring and uplifting stories I have read on here. But the teens in that are treated with some degree of respect.

If one was to put a cut off line, I think I'd agree with 16/17. Possibly 15 if done well, since that's the sort of age people start to explore their bodies and sexuality anyway. So it makes for a better story, as well as a "cleaner" one.

Just my thoughts.

I absolutely agree with you. 15-17 years old is ok, younger is simply... too young. I hate it too when the main character (or any other character) of a story becomes huge and strong and becomes a raping bastard afterwards. That's just wrong and sad. Let's let children be children and teenagers (15-17) be potential muscle beasts!

[The_Pecman]

Originally Posted by niko777

I absolutely agree with you. 15-17 years old is ok, younger is simply... too young.

Normally, I would agree with you. I've written stories with 16-year-olds, but also written them with 18-year-olds and even 14-year-olds. To me, it's a question of (as we say in Hollywood) Tone and Intent.

The dividing line for me is when adults take advantage of kids. That definitely gets into a weird area. I admit to crossing some lines in Cerulean Project, but the key to me is that the boys always have the upper hand. Nobody is taking advantage of them, and the sex will generally be confined only with other teenagers.

I hate it too when the main character (or any other character) of a story becomes huge and strong and becomes a raping bastard afterwards. That's just wrong and sad. Let's let children be children and teenagers (15-17) be potential muscle beasts!

Yeah, that also gets into a very weird area. I'd agree with that, but at the same time, I think writers have to have the freedom to write the story they want to tell.